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milkmania
10-06-2007, 02:48 PM
Jim Broussard cuts down a mexican flag that was flying OVER the American flag!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0XYcuyhnTM


another account with pic of mexican flying above ours on same pole
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2007/10/jim-brosser-rul.html


unedited video
http://www.break.com/index/veteran-cuts-down-mexican-flag.html



hell yeah!

michael freeman
10-06-2007, 03:49 PM
Looks like he was trying to keep the owner out of Jail. If the owner presses charges, I hope the locals put him out of business. Actually I hope they put him out of business for doing it in the first place.

That type of anti-American stuff really pisses me off. Too bad we all seem to stand around and do nothing about it.

Farmer Ted
10-06-2007, 03:52 PM
Jim Broussard cuts down a mexican flag that was flying OVER the American flag!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0XYcuyhnTM


another account with pic of mexican flying above ours on same pole
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2007/10/jim-brosser-rul.html


unedited video
http://www.break.com/index/veteran-cuts-down-mexican-flag.html



hell yeah!

UNITED STATES CODE

TITLE 36

CHAPTER 10

175. Position and manner of display

The flag, when carried in a procession with another flag or flags, should be either on the marching right; that is, the flag's own right, or, if there is a line of other flags, in front of the center of that line.

(a) The flag should not be displayed on a float in a parade except from a staff, or as provided in subsection (i) of this section.
(b) The flag should not be draped over the hood, top, sides, or back of a vehicle or of a railroad train or a boat. When the flag is displayed on a motorcar, the staff shall be fixed firmly to the chassis or clamped to the right fender.
(c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy. No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to, or in place of, the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof: Provided, That nothing in this section shall make unlawful the continuance of the practice heretofore followed of displaying the flag of the United Nations in a position of superior prominence or honor, and other national flags in positions of equal prominence or honor, with that of the flag of the United States at the headquarters of the United Nations.
(d) The flag of the United States of America, when it is displayed with another flag against a wall from crossed staffs, should be on the right, the flag's own right, and its staff should be in front of the staff of the other flag.
(e) The flag of the United States of America should be at the center and at the highest point of the group when a number of flags of States or localities or pennants of societies are grouped and displayed from staffs.
(f) When flags of States, cities, or localities, or pennants of societies are flown on the same halyard with the flag of the United States, the latter should always be at the peak. When the flags are flown from adjacent staffs, the flag of the United States should be hoisted first and lowered last. No such flag or pennant may be placed above the flag of the United States or to the United States flag's right.
(g) When flags of two or more nations are displayed, they are to be flown from separate staffs of the same height. The flags should be of approximately equal size. International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace.
(h) When the flag of the United States is displayed from a staff projecting horizontally or at an angle from the window sill, balcony, or front of a building, the union of the flag should be placed at the peak of the staff unless the flag is at half staff. When the flag is suspended over a sidewalk from a rope extending from a house to a pole at the edge of the sidewalk, the flag should be hoisted out, union first, from the building.
(i) When displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and to the flag's own right, that is, to the observer's left. When displayed in a window, the flag should be displayed in the same way, with the union or blue field to the left of the observer in the street.
(j) When the flag is displayed over the middle of the street, it should be suspended vertically with the union to the north in an east and west street or to the east in a north and south street.
(k) When used on a speaker's platform, the flag, if displayed flat, should be displayed above and behind the speaker. When displayed from a staff in a church or public auditorium, the flag of the United States of America should hold the position of superior prominence, in advance of the audience, and in the position of honor at the clergyman's or speaker's right as he faces the audience. Any other flag so displayed should be placed on the left of the clergyman or speaker or to the right of the audience.
(l) The flag should form a distinctive feature of the ceremony of unveiling a statue or monument, but it should never be used as the covering for the statue or monument.
(m) The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff. The flag shall be flown at half-staff thirty days from the death of the President or a former President; ten days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. As used in this subsection -
(1) the term 'half-staff' means the position of the flag when it is one-half the distance between the top and bottom of the staff;
(2) the term 'executive or military department' means any agency listed under sections 101 (http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#101) and 102 (http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#101) of title 5; and
(3) the term 'Member of Congress' means a Senator, a Representative, a Delegate, or the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico.
(n) When the flag is used to cover a casket, it should be so placed that the union is at the head and over the left shoulder. The flag should not be lowered into the grave or allowed to touch the ground.
(o) When the flag is suspended across a corridor or lobby in a building with only one main entrance, it should be suspended vertically with the union of the flag to the observer's left upon entering. If the building has more than one main entrance, the flag should be suspended vertically near the center of the corridor or lobby with the union to the north, when entrances are to the east and west or to the east when entrances are to the north and south. If there are entrances in more than two directions, the union should be to the east.

shepherd
10-06-2007, 07:56 PM
OK, let the bashing begin, but...... I thought this was a free country. :rolleyes:

And the statute quoted above provides suggestions on the proper display and use of the flag ("should" rather than "shall"). It doesn't criminalize what the restaurant owner did - despite what those geniuses on Fox News say. Unless there's some other statute I dont know about that does...

That said, I applaud the guy who took it down. Good story.

uncleboo
10-07-2007, 03:21 AM
That is exactly what should have happened. This is America--we should fly OUR flag above all others. Too many brave soldiers have fought and died for those colors. We are not "regional ethnicity-Americans", but rather Americans first and ethnicity second.

KarenEL58
03-26-2009, 03:34 PM
Shepherd, you are quite right about the use of the words Should and shall. So read to entire paragraph. Should comes first, then shall. Illegal is what the shop owner did, as well as those spoiled brats who did the same thing in a southern California high school.
I not only applaud Mr. Broussard for cutting down the flags, I thank hin from the bottom of my heart for fighting for this country. This is America, not little Mexico. You can see/hear the reporter asking the Mexicans for thier respionse, funny, they had little to say, must be because they are unable to speak/understand English!!
Again....Thank You Mr. Broussard!!!!

wakeX2wake
03-26-2009, 04:03 PM
if those people don't boycott they should be hit w/ something hard and fast

mlay
03-27-2009, 02:05 PM
For some reason this makes me want to bring out this photo for a quick look.

bbymgr
03-27-2009, 07:42 PM
Mr. Broussard was a hell of a lot calmer than I would have been. I applaud him. "Jose" and "Paco" need a boot factory started in their a$$. I say send them to Iraq to do BriEOD's job for 30 days. I guarantee 1 month of disarming ordinance and those guy's will come back with new attitudes........or they won't come back at all.

X2M
03-27-2009, 08:28 PM
For some reason this makes me want to bring out this photo for a quick look.

I am sure you were trying to make a good point with the photo. I didn't get it... sorry. Looks to me like a bad photoshop job and the US flag is backwards.

2RLAKE
03-27-2009, 08:57 PM
god bless him ... what a great guy ... i would do the same thing

shepherd
03-27-2009, 09:07 PM
Shepherd, you are quite right about the use of the words Should and shall. So read to entire paragraph. Should comes first, then shall. Illegal is what the shop owner did, as well as those spoiled brats who did the same thing in a southern California high school.
I not only applaud Mr. Broussard for cutting down the flags, I thank hin from the bottom of my heart for fighting for this country. This is America, not little Mexico. You can see/hear the reporter asking the Mexicans for thier respionse, funny, they had little to say, must be because they are unable to speak/understand English!!
Again....Thank You Mr. Broussard!!!!

Karen, you are right. I should have looked closer. Illegal? Maybe, if the statute quoted above even exists. I couldn't find a Chapter 10 or section 175 in Title 36 of the United States Code. Hmmmmm. And if it did exist, there is no provision for criminal penalties so I doubt some fascist prosecutors would have a case if they wanted to punish anyone. And even if there were criminal penalties in the statute, I wonder if they would be upheld against a 1st Amendment challenge. Thank God that we at least have a Supreme Court to protect our citizens' freedoms.

Some of our soldiers may indeed be fighting for the American flag, but I like to believe our forefathers fought for Americans' freedom from having to bow before any flag, or any god. I respect the American flag out of respect for what it stands for, not because a bunch of boobs in D.C. mandate that I have to.

Jorski
03-27-2009, 10:34 PM
or

the store owner just didn't know any better...and the guy that ripped down the flag pole is a vigilante who could have spoken to the store owner, or called the police to enforce the law.

shepherd
03-27-2009, 11:33 PM
or called the police to enforce the law.

what law???

bbymgr
03-28-2009, 12:27 AM
what law???


Every state in America except two has laws dealing with the misuse, abuse, and desecration of flags: the American flag, the state flag, and sometimes the Confederate flag. The laws prohibit defiling, defacing, casting contempt upon, and sometimes even satirizing these flags. Most laws specify actions, but some criminalize words. A few include other venerated objects in their protections.

Wyoming is the only state that doesn't say anything about defacing, desecrating, or disparaging the flag. Alaska only bans the registration of trademarks which disparage national symbols. All other states proscribe at least some uses for national and state flags. Below are some key attributes of these laws.

Publicity: It's rarely a crime to deface, burn, or desecrate an American flag if you do so in the privacy of your home. It's only a crime to do it in public or take a flag so altered and display it in public. If the crime is the action, though, why does it have to be public? This suggests that the law exists to protect people's sensibilities rather than flags.

Outraged Sensibilities: Many laws specify that a crime only occurs if the action outrages the sensibilities of those who see or even merely learn of it. Desecrating a flag is not a crime in and of itself; it only becomes a crime when people get upset. Once again, the purpose appears to be protecting people's feelings.

Intent: Most state laws specify that flag desecration is only a crime if person intentionally or knowingly does it. If the point is to protect flags, however, why aren't there provisions for a lesser charge of negligence? Perhaps it's because the point is to suppress the communication of ideas, something that occurs when one intentionally defaces a flag but doesn't occur when one accidentally defaces a flag.
Casting Contempt: The clearest evidence that the point of a law is to suppress speech is when the crime is to "cast contempt" or otherwise "insult" the flag, such that defacing or defiling are merely examples of how the crime might occur. As the Supreme Court stated in Smith v Goguen, however, to treat something contemptuously means to express contempt, and that is undeniably the expression of attitudes or ideas which is protected by the Constitution.

By Word or Act: The most extreme examples of suppressing speech are those state laws which explicitly ban casting contempt on the flag "by word" as well as "by act." States which do this are: Iowa, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Nevada (which additionally makes it a crime to speak "evilly" about the flag), New Mexico (which prohibits insulting the flag), New York, Oklahoma, West Virginia, and Vermont. The District of Columbia used to have this, but it was removed.[/COLOR]

Any Part: Most states define "flag" very broadly to include any part of a flag, any representation of a flag, and anything which anyone might immediately perceive as a flag. So burning a piece of a flag or a picture of a flag are crimes.

Venerated Objects: Alabama and Kentucky are the two states which connect the protection of flags with more general protections for religious objects because they classify the desecration of flags alongside desecration of churches and "venerated objects."

Advertisements: Most states ban not just defacing flags, but also using flags for advertising. This makes it illegal to sell things with flags on them (for the purpose of drawing attention) or to put ads on flags themselves. Maine, Rhode Island, and Pennsylvania only ban this and not other forms of desecration (though Pennsylvania includes things like using flags for drapery).

Personal Property: Most state laws make no distinction between personal property and the property of others; most that do say that it doesn't matter if the flag is personal property desecration is still a crime. Only Kansas and New Hampshire ban desecration just in the context of flags that a person doesn't own.

Felony vs. Misdemeanor: Illinois is the only state to make flag desecration a felony; every other state makes it a misdemeanor. Wisconsin used to make it a felony, but the entire provision on flag desecration was struck down in 1998. Oklahoma makes it a felony to display any "red flag" or other emblem to incite disloyalty to the government.

Inciting of Violence: Maryland and Arizona are the only two states which limit the crime of flag desecration to those cases where the act might incite violence in others. This appears to acknowledge that people have a free speech right to burn or deface the flag, but then makes the person a criminal if others get so upset that they act violently in response.

Confederate Flags: Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina all protect Confederate flags on an equal basis with American and state flags. Thus burning a Confederate flag is the same crime as burning an American flag. Florida used to have similar provisions, but not anymore.

puck_11
03-28-2009, 01:11 AM
I am sure you were trying to make a good point with the photo. I didn't get it... sorry. Looks to me like a bad photoshop job and the US flag is backwards.

It isn't a photoshop job and the flag isn't backwards.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/f/faqflag.htm

shepherd
03-28-2009, 01:31 AM
Thanks bbymgr. Well, so much for "freedom." :rolleyes:

And I found the federal law that was referred to above. It's at 4 USC 7 http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode04/usc_sec_04_00000007----000-.html.
It still doesn't say that there is any criminal penalty for violating it.

I'm not condoning any disrespect or desecration of the flag, I just don't believe there should be a law against it.

bbymgr
03-28-2009, 01:34 AM
Listed in the Nevada Codes it just states that it is a misdemeanor. Here is a copy.

DESECRATION OF FLAGS
NRS 201.290 Penalty; exception.
1. Any person who, in any manner, for exhibition or display, puts or causes to be placed any inscription, design, device, symbol, portrait, name, advertisement, words, character, marks or notice, or sets or places any goods, wares and merchandise whatever upon any flag or ensign of the United States, or state flag of this State, or ensign, evidently purporting to be either of the flags or ensign, or who in any manner appends, annexes, or affixes to any such flag or ensign any inscription, design, device, symbol, portrait, name, advertisement, words, marks, notice or token whatever, or who displays or exhibits or causes to be displayed or exhibited any flag or ensign, evidently purporting to be either of the flags, upon which shall in any manner be put, attached, annexed or affixed any inscription, design, device, symbol, portrait, name, advertisement, words, marks, notice or token whatever, or who publicly or willfully mutilates, tramples upon, or who tears down or willfully and maliciously removes while owned by others, or defames, slanders, or speaks evilly or in a contemptuous manner of or otherwise defaces or defiles any of the flags, or ensign, which are public or private property, shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor.
2. This section shall not apply to flags or ensigns the property of or used in the service of the United States or of this State, upon which inscriptions, names of actions, words, marks or symbols are placed pursuant to law or authorized regulations.
[1911 C&P 338; A 1919, 438; 1919 RL 6603; NCL 10286]

shepherd
03-28-2009, 02:03 AM
That Nevada law doesn't make it illegal to display another flag above the US flag. Even if it did, its ultimate constitutionally would be seriously in question by Supreme Court precedence:

Federal Flag Desecration Law (1968):
In 1968, Congress passed the Federal Flag Desecration Law in response to a Central Park event in which peace activists burned American flags in protest against the Vietnam War. The law banned any display of "contempt" directed against the flag, but did not address the other issues dealt with by state flag desecration laws.

Supreme Court Rules That Verbal Disparagement of Flag is Protected Speech (1969):
Civil rights activist Sydney Street, who had burned a flag at a New York intersection in protest against the shooting of civil rights activist James Meredith, was prosecuted under New York's desecration law for "defy(ing)" the flag. The Court overturned Street's conviction by ruling that verbal disparagement of the flag (one of the reasons for Street's arrest) is protected by the First Amendment--but did not directly address the issue of flag burning.

Supreme Court Rules Against Laws Banning "Contempt" of Flag (1972):
After a Massachusetts teenager was arrested for wearing a flag patch on the seat of his pants, the Supreme Court ruled that laws vaguely banning "contempt" of the flag are unconstitutionally vague and violate the First Amendment's free speech protections.

The Peace Sticker Case (1974):
In Spence v. Washington, the Supreme Court ruled that affixing peace sign stickers to a flag is a form of constitutionally protected speech. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, most states revised their flag desecration laws to meet the standards set in Street, Smith, and Spence.

Supreme Court Strikes Down All Laws Banning Flag Desecration (1989):
Outside the 1984 Republican National Convention in Dallas, Gregory Lee Johnson burned a flag in protest against President Ronald Reagan's policies. He was arrested under Texas' flag desecration statute. In its 5-4 ruling in Texas v. Johnson, the Supreme Court struck down flag desecration laws in 48 states by ruling that flag desecration is a constitutionally protected form of free speech.

Flag Protection Act (1989-1990):
In 1989, the U.S. Congress protested the Johnson decision by passing the Flag Protection Act, a federal version of the already-struck state flag desecration statutes. Thousands burned flags in protest of the new law, and when two protesters were arrested, the Supreme Court affirmed its previous ruling and struck down the federal statute.

Flag Desecration Amendment (1990, 1995, 1997, 1999-2000, 2001, 2003, 2005-2006): Congress has made seven attempts to overrule the U.S. Supreme Court by passing a constitutional amendment making an exception to the First Amendment in order to allow the government to ban flag desecration. In 1990, when the amendment was first brought up, it failed to achieve the necessary two-thirds majority in the House. After the Republican congressional takeover of 1994, it has consistently passed the House but failed in the Senate.


We do not consecrate the flag by punishing its desecration, for in doing so we dilute the freedom that this cherished emblem represents.
-- Justice William J. Brennan, from his majority opinion in Texas v. Johnson (1989)

CantRepeat
03-28-2009, 10:05 AM
It isn't a photoshop job and the flag isn't backwards.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/f/faqflag.htm

And that information is somewhat out of date as well. The part that says when returning home the flag must be removed has changed. It is now manditory to wear the flag on ACU at all times.

As far as the backwards part, if you pictured the flag on the Soldier's shoulder and he is moving forward the wind would blow it as you see it. It's like that to show the Soldier moving forward or charging into battle.

X2M
03-28-2009, 11:38 AM
It isn't a photoshop job and the flag isn't backwards.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/f/faqflag.htm



And that information is somewhat out of date as well. The part that says when returning home the flag must be removed has changed. It is now manditory to wear the flag on ACU at all times.

As far as the backwards part, if you pictured the flag on the Soldier's shoulder and he is moving forward the wind would blow it as you see it. It's like that to show the Soldier moving forward or charging into battle.


Thanks for the info. I did not know that. :)

ProStar190Fan
04-01-2009, 12:52 PM
Americans first and ethnicity second.

enough said.

Tom

ShamrockIV
04-01-2009, 02:40 PM
i wear a flag on my acu's everyday. have one on flagpole in the yard on on tower mount flagpole on my boat!!!!

GOD BLESS THE U.S.A.!!!!!!