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Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-02-2007, 11:11 PM
I am thinking about buying a new laptop computer. I am interesting in your opinions. I want something to cruise the net with(wireless). Use it for picture editing. eventually home movie editing too. (need to get a digital camcorder next) I also have an iPod with aobut 30 gig on it and run itunes. SO I dont want to overbuy, but I dont want to buy something that is leaving me wishing I had something faster. My expereince has been primarily with Dell Computers at work, and at home. I have used HP, Compaq. I have had good luck with Dell, so we stick with it at work.

Obviously cost is a consideration. I would like to keep things in check as much as possible. I realize you cant buy much for $499 but I dont want to spend $2000 either. I would like to cap it at $1000 if thats possible for decent performance.

what are your recommendations??? what speeds, hard drive space, etc....

Thanks in advance!! all input is welcome!! :wavey:

bcampbe7
10-02-2007, 11:15 PM
Go with the "Smart Value Package" here ($699):
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/vostronb_1500?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&~tab=bundlestab

Ben
10-02-2007, 11:30 PM
We got the HP 6449 (I think thats the right #) about 2-1/2 months ago, same as what Leroy got his son. Circuit City has it for $700 now. It's worked great so far, although it's primarily been an internet surfing and e-mailing machine for the wife. Eventually, we'll dump the digi camera pics onto it, and if we get bored this winter, get fancy with the miniDV camera stuff. Anyway, been good so far, would buy again.

http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=17800

Leroy
10-02-2007, 11:35 PM
That was a great deal, my son was telling me last weekend how great that computer was and he is using it all the time at Indiana University. The performance on that would work well for you also UMP.

We got the HP 6449 (I think thats the right #) about 2-1/2 months ago, same as what Leroy got his son. Circuit City has it for $700 now. It's worked great so far, although it's primarily been an internet surfing and e-mailing machine for the wife. Eventually, we'll dump the digi camera pics onto it, and if we get bored this winter, get fancy with the miniDV camera stuff. Anyway, been good so far, would buy again.

http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=17800

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-02-2007, 11:37 PM
That was a great deal, my son was telling me last weekend how great that computer was and he is using it all the time at Indiana University. The performance on that would work well for you also UMP.
well, coming from the guy that is assigned to watch me 24/7/365, I guess you would know! :D

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-02-2007, 11:39 PM
I priced out a dell inspiron 1721 like I wanted.....almost had a heart attack.......$1700!!!!!:( thats with alot of bells & whistles though. just dreamin..........

Leroy
10-02-2007, 11:43 PM
UMP, you crack me up, you know if someone joined this board and looked at your public info I'm sure they would have one of two reactions!

I really could not see what made those laptops $1700-$2500, what feature is driving up the price?

cbryan70
10-02-2007, 11:46 PM
if you want to use it for picture editing and movies GO WITH A MAC, they are basically built for that purpose

rektek
10-02-2007, 11:49 PM
you need a Mac, sounds you like to be creative ? just buy the mac you will not regret it !:)

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-02-2007, 11:55 PM
UMP, you crack me up, you know if someone joined this board and looked at your public info I'm sure they would have one of two reactions!

I really could not see what made those laptops $1700-$2500, what feature is driving up the price?
and what are those two reactions??

and if you think I am funny, you shoulda been at MM3 at the cool kids table!! we had a BLAST! I was in prime form. all full of black russians! HONK!!!!!

east tx skier
10-03-2007, 01:13 AM
I am thinking about buying a new laptop computer. I am interesting in your opinions. I want something to cruise the net with(wireless). Use it for picture editing. eventually home movie editing too. (need to get a digital camcorder next) I also have an iPod with aobut 30 gig on it and run itunes. SO I dont want to overbuy, but I dont want to buy something that is leaving me wishing I had something faster. My expereince has been primarily with Dell Computers at work, and at home. I have used HP, Compaq. I have had good luck with Dell, so we stick with it at work.

Obviously cost is a consideration. I would like to keep things in check as much as possible. I realize you cant buy much for $499 but I dont want to spend $2000 either. I would like to cap it at $1000 if thats possible for decent performance.

I'm went nuts and bought a new desktop and a laptop a couple of weeks ago (lots of rebates in Sept). I'm typing this on an Acer with a 14.1" screen. 1.8 ghz with 2 megs ram and an 80 gig hd; 5in1 card reader (and a CF reader I added). Price $399. Just shy of $400 after I maxed out the ram. I would do almost everything you want it to do, but would probably come up short on the video editing. All I use it for is the absolute minimum when I'm downstairs or on the road.

Desktop is where the video editing will happen. HP with AMD x2 64, 400 gig hd, 4 gigs ram.

Do some research on who the original manufacturer is of whatever you buy. A lot of them are built by the same manufacturer (Compal), with the hd, ram, digital drive, reader, etc. installed by the OEM. If you go dell, go inspiron and be prepared for the hinges to get loose. For video editing, get something with a dual core processor. Oh, and there went your $499 budget more than likely.

The video is really what's requiring a bit more processing power and ram. Hard drive space is important there, too, but externals are pretty inexpensive and can be purchased as needed. I still like to have a lot onboard though.

JoshBuzz
10-03-2007, 02:38 AM
I love my new HP, I got it for college, and it works for everything! Music(all 80 gigs), video editing, video games, picture editing(photoshop), etc.. I got the dv2000, with 200 gig HD, and 80 gig ram, on the dual core AMD processor! It's a 14.1 inch screen, which I thought would be small, but the 17 is way to big!! the whole package was only like 1000$ from Costco!!

dpolen
10-03-2007, 05:51 AM
I have used IBM/Lenovo for many years now...(I also work for big blue). I would buy another one in a heart beat and I know that support is pretty good too. I know the T61 model is a great machine, take a look. PM me if you want my employee discount.

Leroy
10-03-2007, 07:15 AM
Hey buddy or OMG? ;)

and what are those two reactions??

and if you think I am funny, you shoulda been at MM3 at the cool kids table!! we had a BLAST! I was in prime form. all full of black russians! HONK!!!!!

dmayer84
10-03-2007, 10:13 AM
I reccomend going with Dell, I have always had a good experience with them. The Macs tend to be more than what you want to spend.

MYMC
10-03-2007, 10:27 AM
Mac book, for $1099 you get everything you asked for and none of the headaches! Check here: http://www.apple.com/macbook/macbook.html

We have switched everything over in the last couple of months and would never go back! Also if there is an Apple store near you for $99 you a year of training...further if the machine or you have a problem you can walk in and talk face-to-face.

RexDog1
10-03-2007, 11:03 AM
Mac book, for $1099 you get everything you asked for and none of the headaches! Check here: http://www.apple.com/macbook/macbook.html

We have switched everything over in the last couple of months and would never go back! Also if there is an Apple store near you for $99 you a year of training...further if the machine or you have a problem you can walk in and talk face-to-face.


Mac Book is the way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:twocents:

Sodar
10-03-2007, 11:12 AM
Mac Book is the way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:twocents:

And if you really wanna pony up the dough... go with a MacBook Pro!! :twocents:

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-03-2007, 11:17 AM
thanks guys! I am still listening!

I will look into those Macbooks maybe tonight! :)

JBaker
10-03-2007, 11:31 AM
:woohoo: MACBOOK:dance:

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-03-2007, 11:34 AM
So when it comes to doing video editing, what kind of numbers do I need for specs??? hard drive, ram, etc.....

and what software is good for that??

east tx skier
10-03-2007, 11:39 AM
So when it comes to doing video editing, what kind of numbers do I need for specs??? hard drive, ram, etc.....

and what software is good for that??

Dual core processor more than 2.5 ghz with about 3 gigs of ram to be comfortable. You could get away with less, but as the system ages and gets loaded down with running processes, you could see some frame drops during capture.

MYMC
10-03-2007, 11:47 AM
So when it comes to doing video editing, what kind of numbers do I need for specs??? hard drive, ram, etc.....

and what software is good for that??
I use Final Cut Pro on Mac...however, it will cost more than the machine, do you really need a professional editing program? Probably not since you don't own a camera yet. The Macbook will come with a simple editing program for photos and video (Iphoto and Imovie) so start with those and take the classes so you can learn all the features.

The basic Macbook will do everything you have listed...Maeghan has the "black" model ($1499) here is the link to compare them: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?family=MacBook

You can never go wrong with more speed and memory...I wouldnt sweat the hard drive.

east tx skier
10-03-2007, 11:57 AM
On a PC running vista, I just switched to Adobe Premiere Elements. Haven't gotten to play with it much, but the reviews consistently put it up there as one of the best PC video editors for the money (I picked up a N.I.B. copy on ebay for $75).

Also, to elaborate a bit on ODMs (Original Design Manufacturers), the company, IIRC, a company named Quanta makes the "Latitude" series for Dell, and the "Viao" series for Sony. As of 2005, it had contracts with Dell Computer, Compaq, Gateway Computers, Apple Computer, Hewlett Packard, IBM, Sony, Sharp Corporation, Toshiba, Fujitsu and Siemens AG. But if it's not Quanta or Compal, it's another, i.e. Inventec, Arima, GVC, or Clevo.

I think Sony manufactures some of its more expensive systems as does IBM. Acer used to, but I believe they have outsourced much of this as well at this point.

Concentrate on processor speed, max RAM, hard drive space and support. The OEMs like Dell, Compaq, HP, Gateway etc. don't do much more than assemble premanufactured parts. From there, it's just sales and support.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-03-2007, 11:57 AM
OK. well, I dont need professional level stuff. I am just talking about some basic family home videos. waterskiing, holidays, that stuff. So I dont need many bells & whistles. Maybe post a video of watersking on the internet or something like that. thats about all.

Is it better to get a camera that records direct to DVD or what??

east tx skier
10-03-2007, 12:02 PM
OK. well, I dont need professional level stuff. I am just talking about some basic family home videos. waterskiing, holidays, that stuff. So I dont need many bells & whistles. Maybe post a video of watersking on the internet or something like that. thats about all.

Is it better to get a camera that records direct to DVD or what??

Check out Premiere Elements. I've used Pinnacle 8 for years, but the newer version had bad reviews. Roxio 10 had favorable reviews, but I had a demo version of it and didn't like the interface. I like Nero for burning and they have an editor in the program, but I've not used it for this much.

I think your best bang for the buck is a Mini-DV camera with 3CCD. You'll need a firewire connection on the computer for best capture speed.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-03-2007, 12:15 PM
Check out Premiere Elements. I've used Pinnacle 8 for years, but the newer version had bad reviews. Roxio 10 had favorable reviews, but I had a demo version of it and didn't like the interface. I like Nero for burning and they have an editor in the program, but I've not used it for this much.

I think your best bang for the buck is a Mini-DV camera with 3CCD. You'll need a firewire connection on the computer for best capture speed.
what about these cams that record direct to DVD??? pros & cons??

east tx skier
10-03-2007, 12:22 PM
I don't own one, so I don't know how convient the leap from recording to editing is or what the speed of capture is. The last time I looked, they were more expensive than Mini-DV, which is why I suggested going that route as I know you to be a guy who is interested in the bang-for-the-buck variable.

MYMC
10-03-2007, 12:24 PM
OK. well, I dont need professional level stuff. I am just talking about some basic family home videos. waterskiing, holidays, that stuff. So I dont need many bells & whistles. Maybe post a video of watersking on the internet or something like that. thats about all.

Is it better to get a camera that records direct to DVD or what??
Skip all that PC based crap and let a Mac handle all that for you;) No need to buy other programs for what you are doing the machine has everything you need and it is one stop shopping! Buy a PC laptop and have an issue...good luck..."hello India this is UMP...":o

As to the camera I am a Cannon user for video and Nikon for stills. To get started the HV20 HDV is a great camera: http://www.videomaker.com/article/13252/

MYMC
10-03-2007, 12:26 PM
BTW, first lesson...shoot the video and edit it on the computer not in the camera. Skip the direct to DVD...

Sodar
10-03-2007, 12:54 PM
Skip all that PC based crap and let a Mac handle all that for you;) No need to buy other programs for what you are doing the machine has everything you need and it is one stop shopping! Buy a PC laptop and have an issue...good luck..."hello India this is UMP...":o

Very well said, Mike!!

UMP, I swear you will fall in love with a Mac. It is so nice to get off my PC at work and come home to my mac.... I absolutely love it!

JBaker
10-03-2007, 01:04 PM
Friends don't let friends use windows.

east tx skier
10-03-2007, 01:12 PM
Skip all that PC based crap and let a Mac handle all that for you;) No need to buy other programs for what you are doing the machine has everything you need and it is one stop shopping! Buy a PC laptop and have an issue...good luck..."hello India this is UMP...":o

As to the camera I am a Cannon user for video and Nikon for stills. To get started the HV20 HDV is a great camera: http://www.videomaker.com/article/13252/

Macs are great, but look at his budget. Unless you're working on the road more often than not, for the most performance on a budget, go with a desktop over a laptop.

Agree on the canon video. Our Z-85 has been very reliable.

MYMC
10-03-2007, 06:53 PM
Macs are great, but look at his budget. Unless you're working on the road more often than not, for the most performance on a budget, go with a desktop over a laptop.

Agree on the canon video. Our Z-85 has been very reliable.
I object! The person in question clearly stated he was looking for a lap top, and my suggestion not only falls within those parameters it is within the prescribed budget. (always wanted to do that)

UMP…whatever you do avoid Vista! I know Microsoft guys that won’t use it.

east tx skier
10-03-2007, 06:59 PM
I object! The person in question clearly stated he was looking for a lap top, and my suggestion not only falls within those parameters it is within the prescribed budget. (always wanted to do that)

UMP…whatever you do avoid Vista! I know Microsoft guys that won’t use it.


I thought he said $499 Mike?

So far, Vista has been a pretty easy transition for us. Only had two programs that didn't like it. I particularly like the built in mail client so I don't have to mess with my older version of outlook.

/edit. Ah, $1,000 cap. Okay, what will that get him in a Mac?

Sodar
10-03-2007, 07:31 PM
/edit. Ah, $1,000 cap. Okay, what will that get him in a Mac?

One of these!! :)

http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/2041/1322/store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/macbook/product-black.jpg

bigmac
10-03-2007, 07:52 PM
Well, a Mac might be out of his budget. Apple is not much into compromise and they don't sell cheapie laptops. If UMP is looking at video editing, I think he'd be more likely looking at one of the 2.16 ghz MacBooks and that starts at $1300. Make no mistake, it's a superior laptop and worth the price... but it is beyond his stated $1000 cap.

So UMP...which of these two guys is you...?

http://mccollister.info/whymac.jpg

bigmac
10-03-2007, 07:59 PM
what about these cams that record direct to DVD??? pros & cons??

Editing is difficult with the DVD models. They're only useful if you're not doing editing. Get MiniDV, or if your budget is tighter than that, get Digital 8.

TX.X-30 fan
10-03-2007, 08:52 PM
Very well said, Mike!!

UMP, I swear you will fall in love with a Mac. It is so nice to get off my PC at work and come home to my mac.... I absolutely love it!



What is so great about the mac's? For you to love it so much it must have some "port" configuration I've not seen. :D

number10
10-03-2007, 09:03 PM
After burning thru a micron and a dell, i went to mac. Much better.

Do yourself a favor when the time comes to trade up. Once you go mac, you don't go back.

east tx skier
10-03-2007, 09:33 PM
Well, a Mac might be out of his budget. Apple is not much into compromise and they don't sell cheapie laptops. If UMP is looking at video editing, I think he'd be more likely looking at one of the 2.16 ghz MacBooks and that starts at $1300. Make no mistake, it's a superior laptop and worth the price... but it is beyond his stated $1000 cap.

So UMP...which of these two guys is you...?

http://mccollister.info/whymac.jpg

For the record, my Acer laptop had a little card in the package informing me that they had declined to load my laptop up with a mound of additional software. It had a little bit, but nothing compared to what has become a standard annoying practice on the part of OEMs. I was pleasantly surprised at that.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-03-2007, 10:53 PM
Man is this confusing!! WOoosH! WOW!

OK, I am going to have to really sit and think now.

Eastie had a different idea. get a cheaper laptop NOW just for travel, sitting on the couch watching TV net cruising, or at the breakfast table, and then get a more powerful desktop PC LATER when I get a vid cam for editing and such.

The mac stuff is very interesting, and I hear SO many people that like them. I am just curious what the advantages are for mac? arent there compatiblity issues for software? People that love them, REALLY LOVE Them. so I am curious why they are SO strong advocates of the brand?

Like I say. man this is confusing..... Its no different than Ford vs Chevy, BK vs. McD, Cottenelle vs. Charmin, Coors vs. Lite, etc.... you get the point.....

THANKS! a bunch for all the input from everyone!!!! I am still listening!!! keep the ideas rollin in!!! :wavey:

dmayer84
10-03-2007, 10:56 PM
UMP we could always load linux up on a computer for ya, just pick your flavor.

http://www.linuxbasis.com/distributions.html

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-03-2007, 11:11 PM
UMP we could always load linux up on a computer for ya, just pick your flavor.

http://www.linuxbasis.com/distributions.html
YOu must be joking!

bcampbe7
10-03-2007, 11:20 PM
UMP we could always load linux up on a computer for ya, just pick your flavor.

http://www.linuxbasis.com/distributions.html

I run Knoppix from time to time. :cool:

MYMC
10-04-2007, 10:34 AM
Man is this confusing!! WOoosH! WOW!

OK, I am going to have to really sit and think now.

Eastie had a different idea. get a cheaper laptop NOW just for travel, sitting on the couch watching TV net cruising, or at the breakfast table, and then get a more powerful desktop PC LATER when I get a vid cam for editing and such.

The mac stuff is very interesting, and I hear SO many people that like them. I am just curious what the advantages are for mac? arent there compatiblity issues for software? People that love them, REALLY LOVE Them. so I am curious why they are SO strong advocates of the brand?

Like I say. man this is confusing..... Its no different than Ford vs Chevy, BK vs. McD, Cottenelle vs. Charmin, Coors vs. Lite, etc.... you get the point.....

THANKS! a bunch for all the input from everyone!!!! I am still listening!!! keep the ideas rollin in!!! :wavey:
Advantages to a Mac?
1. Macs are Easier to Understand and Use
2. Macs can Bootup off most External Storage Devices
3. Macs are more Secure and Private
4. Macs suffer from far fewer Computer Viruses
5. Macs are Faster
6. Macs are more Stable
7. Macs have Superior File Management
8. Macs have Superior Backup Capabilities
9. Macs have Superior Internet Capabilities
10. Macs can run more software
11. Macs are Cheaper

Or this quote:
Why Macintosh?
Why are Macintosh computers better than PCs running Windows? Ease of use, speed, power, compatibility, superior multimedia, lower support costs and value...just to name a few!

Macintosh is the computer of choice for creative individuals who want to spend time changing the world, not fixing security holes, fighting viruses or reinstalling programs for the third time!

Once you go Mac you wont go back!:D

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-04-2007, 10:40 AM
Advantages to a Mac?
1. Macs are Easier to Understand and Use
2. Macs can Bootup off most External Storage Devices
3. Macs are more Secure and Private
4. Macs suffer from far fewer Computer Viruses
5. Macs are Faster
6. Macs are more Stable
7. Macs have Superior File Management
8. Macs have Superior Backup Capabilities
9. Macs have Superior Internet Capabilities
10. Macs can run more software
11. Macs are Cheaper

Or this quote:
Why Macintosh?
Why are Macintosh computers better than PCs running Windows? Ease of use, speed, power, compatibility, superior multimedia, lower support costs and value...just to name a few!

Macintosh is the computer of choice for creative individuals who want to spend time changing the world, not fixing security holes, fighting viruses or reinstalling programs for the third time!

Once you go Mac you wont go back!:D

Thanks Mike! mucho appreciated! this is all going into the brain for processing. :wavey:

MYMC
10-04-2007, 10:49 AM
Thanks Mike! mucho appreciated! this is all going into the brain for processing. :wavey:
Is there an Apple store near you? If so go check it out...kick the tires and see what you think.

shepherd
10-04-2007, 10:56 AM
Once you go Mac you wont go back!:D

You been visiting our friend up in Minnesota? ;)

east tx skier
10-04-2007, 11:28 AM
Or this quote:

Why are Macintosh computers better than PCs running Windows? Ease of use, speed, power, compatibility, superior multimedia, lower support costs and value...just to name a few!



Two quick questions, and I'm not trying to sound snarky, but

(1) since you can set up a Mac with an intel processor to run windows, how is that different from a PC?

(2) Who is/are Apple's ODM(s) for its laptops/desktops?

east tx skier
10-04-2007, 11:36 AM
Answered my second question.

Two ODMs that I can find.

Quanta, who also makes computers for Dell, Compaq, Fujitsu, HP, IBM, Sony, Sharp, and Siemens among others.

The other ODM is Asustek.

Are Apple's non-intel processors still made by IBM?

MYMC
10-04-2007, 11:48 AM
Answered my second question.

Two ODMs that I can find.

Quanta, who also makes computers for Dell, Compaq, Fujitsu, HP, IBM, Sony, Sharp, and Siemens among others.

The other ODM is Asustek.

Are Apple's non-intel processors still made by IBM?
It is my understanding that ALL Macs processors are now Intel.

And not trying to sound snarky either...but are you saying (or implying) the measure of a machine is strictly limited to the sum of its parts?

east tx skier
10-04-2007, 12:02 PM
No, not entirely. (see below). I am just curious why one computer faster than the other if all the components are essentially the same (that assumes a Mac running windows of course)?

As I mentioned previously, with so many computers produced by the same ODM, focus should be on processor speed, onboard and max memory, hard drive space, and support/service. I have heard good things about Apple's service/support, but that's not really what I was asking.

I'm sure Macs are great (although I don't care for Safari much). I have had desktop PCs since 1998. I just bought my third a few weeks ago. Two compaqs (the first, an AMD K-6, the second an Intel Celeron 2.5 ghz, and now an HP (AMD X2 64). Since 1998 (knock wood), I have had no crashes and have never had the need to call their customer support. I'm a fan of AMD processors. It doesn't hurt that my brother in law is an Engineer at AMD (thermodynamicist).

I have had to call Dell's customer support once on my wife's laptop and once on my Axim when it wasn't shipped with a necessary part. The person. On the laptop, surprisingly, I wasn't routed to the India call center. Nonetheless, the person was farily useless and I solved the problem on my own. With the Axim, I was routed to the call center in India. The person was the most helpful human being on the face of the planet and I had the part I needed within a day.

Just one person's experience and I will understand if is the exception to the norm.

MYMC
10-04-2007, 12:08 PM
No, not at all. (see below). I am just curious why one computer faster than the other if all the components are essentially the same (that assumes a Mac running windows of course)?

As I mentioned previously, with so many computers produced by the same ODM, focus should be on processor speed, onboard and max memory, hard drive space, and support/service. I have heard good things about Apple's service/support, but that's not really what I was asking.

I'm sure Macs are great (although I don't care for Safari much). I have had desktop PCs since 1998. I just bought my third a few weeks ago. Two compaqs (the first, an AMD K-6, the second an Intel Celeron 2.5 ghz, and now an HP (AMD X2 64). Since 1998 (knock wood), I have had no crashes and have never had the need to call their customer support. I'm a fan of AMD processors. It doesn't hurt that my brother in law is an Engineer at AMD (thermodynamicist).

I have had to call Dell's customer support once on my wife's laptop and once on my Axim when it wasn't shipped with a necessary part. The person. On the laptop, surprisingly, I wasn't routed to the India call center. Nonetheless, the person was farily useless and I solved the problem on my own. With the Axim, I was routed to the call center in India. The person was the most helpful human being on the face of the planet and I had the part I needed within a day.

Just one person's experience and I will understand if is the exception to the norm.
You were born under the right star my friend...Maeghan is on her 4th laptop in 4 years (this is the first Mac) the other Gateways and Dell ate it right when the warranty expired. At work I have nothing but trouble (lock ups and non-responsive programs).

I believe a lot of the speed comes from not needing to run within another program or shell (not sure of proper term).

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-04-2007, 12:15 PM
The funny thing is, we run all PC's at work here. We have 9 Dells in 7 years, and no problems with them. we have to have PC's because of GM approved software vendors, so we dont have a choice to go MAC here. the only problems we've had are from the BS software vendor. but that isnt DELL or Microsots fault. the software we have is just junk, but again, we dont have many chioces, and the other ones arent any better from what we hear from other dealers.

bcampbe7
10-04-2007, 12:22 PM
You were born under the right star my friend...Maeghan is on her 4th laptop in 4 years (this is the first Mac) the other Gateways and Dell ate it right when the warranty expired. At work I have nothing but trouble (lock ups and non-responsive programs).

I believe a lot of the speed comes from not needing to run within another program or shell (not sure of proper term).

Are you sure there is not a loose screw in front of the monitor? :D :D
I kid, I kid...

I am like ETS and (knock on wood) have not had too many issues that I could not fix on my own.

I did, just recently, had a Windows machine die on me. It was about 5 years old though and I always always always backup my systems (which anyone should do, whether you drive a PC or a MAC).

I would love to try a MAC and dual boot OSX and Windows, but I cannot justify the initial cost of the MAC.

To add to this debate, why not just run some flavor of Linux on a 400MHz P3? It would be screaming fast, secure, stable and compatible with most all hardware.

east tx skier
10-04-2007, 12:22 PM
You were born under the right star my friend...Maeghan is on her 4th laptop in 4 years (this is the first Mac) the other Gateways and Dell ate it right when the warranty expired. At work I have nothing but trouble (lock ups and non-responsive programs).

I believe a lot of the speed comes from not needing to run within another program or shell (not sure of proper term).

It's good to me me, what can I say. :)

My first laptop (before I went on my only desktops kick) was a Toshiba. Customer support was terrible and it took me 3 years to find someone who knew that I only needed a $.40 part to make the keyboard work properly. After that, I got another year or so out of it.

The Acer has been fine so far and Vista has been pretty smooth. But I'm only a few weeks into it so I can't really say yea or nay.

The AMD K-6 machine is almost 10 years old and still in service at my father-in-law's house. And that's running Windows 98. Also forgot to add that I have an E-machine running ME that was a floor model. It's a dedicated music recording machine though so that it has never had so much as a hiccup is not surprising.

Again, it's good to be a lucky bastage.

bigmac
10-04-2007, 12:57 PM
My wife has been using Mac laptops for years, my daughter too. Naturally, I'm the IT person in our little family and computer issues fall to me. I switched from Macs to PCs about 6 years ago, just recently switched back. My experience with the other Macs in the family compared to the three PC's I used to have sitting on my desk running Windows XP is that there is absolutely no comparison regarding ease of use, but most especially in stability. The reason I finally switched back to Macs was because I had concluded that Windows sucks...bad design, bad software integration, and serious security problems and VERY serious stability problems. My experience over the last couple of months with OSX on my own machine (which replaced the three PCs I was using) is that Windows REALLY sucks. The total lack of crashes and problems on the other Macs in the family had kind of made me forget how good OSX is.

PCs are definitely usable computers, of course. And no question you can go buy a cheapie laptop or other computer for peanuts...a lot cheaper than you can get a Mac for. And no question it would be easy to rationalize those facts into convincing yourself that your PC with Windows is "good enough". It probably is - most of us can get used to anything, and often the concept of switching and learning something new is scary - just reinforces that the status quo is "good enough". But I'm sayin' that I extensively use both Macs and PCs. I build them, I troubleshoot them, and I know a lot about them. I use them at work and at home every day - I'm TYPING this on a PC at work. Macs are better. Period.

Just sayin'

east tx skier
10-04-2007, 01:23 PM
PCs are definitely usable computers, of course. And no question you can go buy a cheapie laptop or other computer for peanuts...a lot cheaper than you can get a Mac for. And no question it would be easy to rationalize those facts into convincing yourself that your PC with Windows is "good enough". It probably is - most of us can get used to anything, and often the concept of switching and learning something new is scary - just reinforces that the status quo is "good enough". But I'm sayin' that I extensively use both Macs and PCs. I build them, I troubleshoot them, and I know a lot about them. I use them at work and at home every day - I'm TYPING this on a PC at work. Macs are better. Period.

Just sayin'

Bigmac, I know you are very knowledgable about this subject. Can you answer my first question above with regard to the difference between a PC running windows and a Mac running windows exclusively? I've owned Macs, too (pre notebook back when it was unfashionable to own a Mac ;)), and really am curious/serious about that first question.

dmayer84
10-04-2007, 01:25 PM
Just keep in mind that there are so many security flaws in windows because people are looking for them because of the percentage of the market that they have. Once this starts swinging in the direction of Macs dont be suprised to see viruses and such for those as well.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-04-2007, 01:28 PM
This is sure an interesting thread!

Lots of good reading here!

you Mac guys obviously love those computers for good reason, otherwise you wouldnt be such strong advocates of the brand.

As I said before, I must be like Eastie.....lucky. I havent had any issues with PCs running windows. sure, if your running multiple programs sometimes it can be a bit sluggish on my 4 year old Dell. If I am running some music on iTunes, and trying to edit photos or something it can be a bit sluggish at time, but other than that I havent really had any issues in all the years I have been running windows stuff. I used Macs in college and they were great. Unfortunatly I dont have any mac stores near me as I live in the armpit of hte earth. as I stated before, I am kinda on a budget here, so I am trying to watch my $$$. The macs are certainly a great option, but I am just trying to justify the higher cost. and again, the "need" factor plays in. What do I need? just a computer to yak with all you jokers on the internet, some photo editing, and MAYBE video editing in the future.....maybe...... I dont know.... Lots of stuff to digest here. This has been a great thread. I welcome any more input from anyone! Great stuf!

Leroy
10-04-2007, 01:34 PM
Just buy something UMP.

It's been 10 years since I used a MAC and I think the gap has closed and should be closer since Microsoft has had 15 years to copy what Apple computer does! Apply has shown they clearly can make any task easier and dominate markets because of that.

bcampbe7
10-04-2007, 01:48 PM
Just keep in mind that there are so many security flaws in windows because people are looking for them because of the percentage of the market that they have. Once this starts swinging in the direction of Macs dont be suprised to see viruses and such for those as well.

Exactly...

It is not that Mac's are inherently more secure.

bcampbe7
10-04-2007, 01:53 PM
Bigmac, I know you are very knowledgable about this subject. Can you answer my first question above with regard to the difference between a PC running windows and a Mac running windows exclusively? I've owned Macs, too (pre notebook back when it was unfashionable to own a Mac ;)), and really am curious/serious about that first question.


I would imagine that Windows on a Mac would run identical to Windows on a PC so long as the hardware is identical. Having an apple on the case of the machine is not going to make it faster when the internals are the same. Are the internals of a Mac the same? I don't know, I haven't found specifics of their internals. How fast is the HD, RAM, etc in the Mac?

Can I buy OSX and run it on my Intel based PC? If not, why not?

dmayer84
10-04-2007, 01:55 PM
Exactly...

It is not that Mac's are inherently more secure.

Mac users will probably actually see things that are more devestating that windows users because the OS is so similar to Linux/Unix. With that said there are many "computer nerds" that know how manipulate Linux so well and OS X would be a small change to them.

dmayer84
10-04-2007, 01:56 PM
Can I buy OSX and run it on my Intel based PC? If not, why not?

Ive run OSX on a pc before, biggest issue is finding the right drivers.

bcampbe7
10-04-2007, 01:57 PM
Ive run OSX on a pc before, biggest issue is finding the right drivers.


I am thinking about buying a copy of OSX Tiger and dual booting my PC.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-04-2007, 02:00 PM
Just buy something UMP.

Shut up Leroy, I am thinking over here. go moderate somebody!8p ;) :D

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-04-2007, 02:04 PM
alright computer nerds!!! lets keep this in normal language here, I dont understand geekaneese! 8p ;) I dont have a clue what your saying. Completely out of the loop..... like when I am in the asian massage parlors and the girls kinda of chuckle and talk jibberish when I walk through the door!:o :o

MYMC
10-04-2007, 02:34 PM
Just keep in mind that there are so many security flaws in windows because people are looking for them because of the percentage of the market that they have. Once this starts swinging in the direction of Macs dont be suprised to see viruses and such for those as well.
First let me say I am not arguing...just asking a question.

If what you are saying is true that the security flaws are there just not exploited, why hasn't one of the "hackers" done this to gain notoriety? Most of these guys do this stuff to prove a point and with the momentum of Apple (look at the stock "AAPL" and Christmas is around the corner) why not jump on it? Is it possible that there is more here than just..."we haven't bothered with it yet?"

bigmac
10-04-2007, 02:49 PM
Bigmac, I know you are very knowledgable about this subject. Can you answer my first question above with regard to the difference between a PC running windows and a Mac running windows exclusively? I've owned Macs, too (pre notebook back when it was unfashionable to own a Mac ;)), and really am curious/serious about that first question.
The processors in Macs are all Intel Xeon's or Core 2 Duos....same processors as the better and faster PC's. That's one reason Macs tend to run Windows faster than PC's...other reasons have to do with bus architecture, caching, and throughput as well as memory management. The base level Macs have better designs, better hardware, and are faster than the base level PC's.

Mac computers have never, ever, been marketed as price-point computers. They are higher end, higher performance, design-enhanced computers. If you're looking for a $500 laptop, don't bother complaining about that lack at your local Apple Store....they'll un-apollogetically send you over to the Acer kiosk, and thank-you-very-much-for stopping-by-don't-let-the-door-hit-you-in-the-a$$-on-the-way-out....As computers go, they do kick a$$ dollar for dollar. But just as not everybody needs a 3500 HD dualie diesel crew cab with 30 inch tires to haul their 2500 lb boat 5 miles down to the nearest boat ramp, not every needs, or should have, a Mac computer.

east tx skier
10-04-2007, 02:55 PM
Thanks, BigMac. That makes sense. Faster Chip(s); more money. Although I'm not sure I understand how a mac would cache or manage memory better than a comparable pc running the same operating system. That is to say, is caching and memory management not handled by the operating system?

MYMC
10-04-2007, 03:02 PM
The processors in Macs are all Intel Xeon's or Core 2 Duos....same processors as the better and faster PC's. That's one reason Macs tend to run Windows faster than PC's...other reasons have to do with bus architecture, caching, and throughput as well as memory management. The base level Macs have better designs, better hardware, and are faster than the base level PC's.

Mac computers have never, ever, been marketed as price-point computers. They are higher end, higher performance, design-enhanced computers. If you're looking for a $500 laptop, don't bother complaining about that lack at your local Apple Store....they'll un-apollogetically send you over to the Acer kiosk, and thank-you-very-much-for stopping-by-don't-let-the-door-hit-you-in-the-a$$-on-the-way-out....As computers go, they do kick a$$ dollar for dollar. But just as not everybody needs a 3500 HD dualie diesel crew cab with 30 inch tires to haul their 2500 lb boat 5 miles down to the nearest boat ramp, not every needs, or should have, a Mac computer.
Any thoughts or insight into the virus/security issue? Is this really a volume proposition as has been put forth or is the OS more difficult to "infect/interfere" with?

east tx skier
10-04-2007, 03:16 PM
Any thoughts or insight into the virus/security issue? Is this really a volume proposition as has been put forth or is the OS more difficult to "infect/interfere" with?

Here's the first result for my google search of "why don't people hack macs"

Link (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2006/08/hijacking_a_macbook_in_60_seco_1.html)

I love the quotes,

"[T]he presenters said they ultimately decided to run the demo against a Mac due to what Maynor called the "Mac user base aura of smugness on security[,]" and

"We're not picking specifically on Macs here, but if you watch those 'Get a Mac' commercials enough, it eventually makes you want to stab one of those users in the eye with a lit cigarette or something...."

dmayer84
10-04-2007, 03:20 PM
First let me say I am not arguing...just asking a question.

If what you are saying is true that the security flaws are there just not exploited, why hasn't one of the "hackers" done this to gain notoriety? Most of these guys do this stuff to prove a point and with the momentum of Apple (look at the stock "AAPL" and Christmas is around the corner) why not jump on it? Is it possible that there is more here than just..."we haven't bothered with it yet?"

I think it has to do a lot with the fact that they hate microsoft. Only go after the company that you dislike. Once there is a more level playing field between Microsoft and Apple I think you will find more Mac viruses, but that is only my opinion.

bigmac
10-04-2007, 03:23 PM
Any thoughts or insight into the virus/security issue? Is this really a volume proposition as has been put forth or is the OS more difficult to "infect/interfere" with?I'm sure that a dedicated malefactor could write a virus or worm or other malware that could affect a Mac running OSX, and that Macs are afforded some level of protection by their lower market share. However, Unix-based operating systems, or ANY OS that doesn't rely on a Window's-like registry are going to be intrinsically more secure. It is a LOT easier to bring Windows to a grinding halt by exploiting its core processes than OSX, and will likely always be. Additionally, it's easier to make OSX secure than Windows - there are just more potential security holes by the very nature of the Windows OS. Access to core processes is just plain harder in OSX. I could envision someone writing malicious code that would affect a given user in OSX, but bringing the the whole system down would be pretty hard - much harder than for a Windows machine.

The biggest imminent issue I see for Macs is in the arena of malware. Macs are still more secure from those processes, but they aren't immune. Even so, I'd look for more in the way of annoying pop-ups, but not spyware that grinds the OS to a halt as is so common on Windows.

MYMC
10-04-2007, 03:41 PM
Thanks for the info guys!

Smugness for all!:rolleyes:

east tx skier
10-04-2007, 03:51 PM
I still remember back in the early 90s having a Mac when all the PC people would just dog on Apple to no end. Of course, widespread computer viruses was not something I was aware of back then inasmuch as Dick Cheney had just invented the internet(s). ;)

MYMC
10-04-2007, 03:57 PM
Dick Cheney had just invented the internet(s). ;)
I thought Algore did that?

east tx skier
10-04-2007, 04:20 PM
I thought Algore did that?

No, he claimed he did. So long as we all understand it was invented by a vice president and not some people who actually know a great deal about computers.

bigmac
10-04-2007, 05:15 PM
Thanks, BigMac. That makes sense. Faster Chip(s); more money. Although I'm not sure I understand how a mac would cache or manage memory better than a comparable pc running the same operating system. That is to say, is caching and memory management not handled by the operating system?Bandwidth on the front side bus, for example, is hardware dependant and is dependant on things like the Northbridge architecture, etc.

east tx skier
10-04-2007, 05:51 PM
I'd be lying if I told you that wasn't over my head, but I'm assuming that's something Apple does in assembling the computer as opposed to what the ODM does that would not otherwise be done on similarly spec'd PCs it manufactures in addition to the ones it does for Apple?

I'm not saying that they are all the same because the ODM is the same. I'm just wondering if some of them could be.

bigmac
10-04-2007, 06:44 PM
No, he claimed he did. So long as we all understand it was invented by a vice president and not some people who actually know a great deal about computers.Here he is monitoring the internet. (note that he's using a Mac...)

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2007/gore_life/20.jpg

east tx skier
10-04-2007, 06:48 PM
Looks like he's monitoring the internetS

bigmac
10-04-2007, 06:50 PM
I'd be lying if I told you that wasn't over my head, but I'm assuming that's something Apple does in assembling the computer as opposed to what the ODM does that would not otherwise be done on similarly spec'd PCs it manufactures in addition to the ones it does for Apple?

I'm not saying that they are all the same because the ODM is the same. I'm just wondering if some of them could be.

Those off shore companies are assemblers, not designers. Apple sends everybody the specs, Intel provides them with the Apple-designed motherboard, the Apple custom-designed cases come from somewhere, they slap in some other off-the-shelf components like Seagate hard drives, Panasonic DVD/R etc, etc etc. That's different than many of the other companies that go to Quantum and order "model B137C", which is a generic motherboard with generic components, and a standard case that they spec with, say a Dell/Acer/Bell&Howell label on it.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-04-2007, 07:01 PM
Those off shore companies are assemblers, not designers. Apple sends everybody the specs, Intel provides them with the Apple-designed motherboard, the Apple custom-designed cases come from somewhere, they slap in some other off-the-shelf components like Seagate hard drives, Panasonic DVD/R etc, etc etc. That's different than many of the other companies that go to Quantum and order "model B137C", which is a generic motherboard with generic components, and a standard case that they spec with, say a Dell/Acer/Bell&Howell label on it.
Are you sure that your a doctor and not a computer deisgner-engineer?8p ;)

and dont give me the "stayed at a holiday inn express" line! :D

east tx skier
10-04-2007, 07:03 PM
Those off shore companies are assemblers, not designers. Apple sends everybody the specs, Intel provides them with the Apple-designed motherboard, the Apple custom-designed cases come from somewhere, they slap in some other off-the-shelf components like Seagate hard drives, Panasonic DVD/R etc, etc etc. That's different than many of the other companies that go to Quantum and order "model B137C", which is a generic motherboard with generic components, and a standard case that they spec with, say a Dell/Acer/Bell&Howell label on it.

That's different than what I've read pretty much everywhere. The way I understand it, Quanta, for example, manufactures it and the OEMs like Dell, Apple, etc. fit it with a hard drive, memory, optical drive, and whatever else. I'm going to have to call my source. :)

bigmac
10-04-2007, 07:22 PM
That's different than what I've read pretty much everywhere. The way I understand it, Quanta, for example, manufactures it and the OEMs like Dell, Apple, etc. fit it with a hard

I'm sure they have some models assembled at Qanta, but they've also used Compal and Asustek over the years. I'm sure it varies year by year and contract by contract, but the designs are Apple...they get bids from those various place based on what it would cost to manufacture. Some computer mfgrs buy a Quanta or Compal generic computer that was designed and sold by Quanta or someone to several different computer companies. Those are those $500 Sam's club specials that we keep seeing. Dell has some of those too, as well as a line of computers proprietary to them that Quanta makes for them. ALL of Apple's machines are designed in-house and assembled by whomever to Apple's rather rigid specs.

Quanta assembles part of Apple's iPod line too (not all of it), and rumor has it they are pushing hard for the contract to make the G2 iPhone (they don't build the current version now....)

east tx skier
10-04-2007, 08:15 PM
By that same token, I'm sure if money were no object, I could have a PC spec'd however I wanted. Almost like a Chevy Suburban vs. GM. No doubt you can get cheap laptops. I'm typing on one, which I bought after I bought my PC, which I will use for more processing intensive things. The laptop is a $400 ACER and runs like a top. 1.8 ghz, 80 gig hd, 5 in 1 card reader, cd burner, a cf reader I added and ram maxed out at 2 gigs. I have nothing on it other than just the basics. Email, internet, burning software, word processor. All I need on the road or when I'm away from the desktop. I believe it is ODM compal. Acer actually used to be an ODM and were expensive, but that all changed when they bought gateway (or maybe before that).

I can understand someone that wants to run OS X exclusively going apple to do it. But when you throw Windows into the equation as the operating system, the differences are certainly fewer, if any.

Dell has some made by compal, some by Quanta, etc. etc. That's why they ask you your model first at customer support, then route you.

Conferred with my brother-in-law about this. As I mentioned before, he's an engineer for AMD (Advanced Micro Devices). His perspective was there were two reasons someone might buy a Mac (1) they wanted the Mac OS, and/or (2) they liked the look better. Apart from that, he agreed that they were manufactured (and assembled by the same company(companies) as many other name brands, any of which could be spec'd out however the end user so chose. They are using intel chips, so the architecture is no different than any other computer running that chipset.

As for OS X security, he said that any system can be hacked, and the primary reason that the OS X Macs are hacked less is most likely market share. He told me of some study concerning linux and made a comparison to OSX, but I can't remember the specifics. Essentially, the conclusion was that they are no more or less hackable than Windows.

bigmac
10-05-2007, 01:36 AM
I note that Micro$oft has extended the sales cutoff date for Windows XP for an additional 5 months. Vista isn't going over so well...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298496,00.html

Leroy
10-05-2007, 08:40 AM
Collection of youtube ads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7ReS_ur4Kc

MYMC
10-05-2007, 10:31 AM
Looks like he's monitoring the internetS
Can't be...I don't see porn on any of the screens!:uglyhamme

MYMC
10-05-2007, 10:33 AM
I note that Micro$oft has extended the sales cutoff date for Windows XP for an additional 5 months. Vista isn't going over so well...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298496,00.html
Without going into names we have a customer that was one of the "fathers" of windows and he won't use Vista!

east tx skier
10-05-2007, 11:50 AM
I note that Micro$oft has extended the sales cutoff date for Windows XP for an additional 5 months. Vista isn't going over so well...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298496,00.html


From the article. "Some customers have voiced displeasure with Vista due to a lack of compatibility with existing software programs and devices. The hardware requirements needed to run Vista also are a significant upgrade from many older computers."

My only issue with it has been compatibility with an older version of nero and pinnacle studio 8. So I upgraded nero and switched to Premiere elements. Not uncommon for a business to wait to upgrade operating systems until at least two years after initial release. Apart from a wait and see approach as far as how the OS works, the expense of upgrading machines is understandable.

As operating systems go, I've been really pleased with Vista so far.

Without going into names we have a customer that was one of the "fathers" of windows and he won't use Vista!

Without naming names, why specically is that?

MYMC
10-05-2007, 12:38 PM
Without naming names, why specically is that?
Exact words..."Vista is a loser"
I didn't ask beyond that...I kinda felt like it said it all.

BTW, yesterday as this conversation went on my PC here at work locked up and I spent the next 2 hours running various programs to figure out why...back to my Mac.

Leroy
10-05-2007, 12:43 PM
From what I hear it is a few corp accounts slow to change over. Every PC at BB, CC is Vista, Dell only offers it on 4 desktop models. Everyone I talk with loves it. I've read the incompatibilty complaint, but do not know personally of a single instance.

I note that Micro$oft has extended the sales cutoff date for Windows XP for an additional 5 months. Vista isn't going over so well...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298496,00.html

bigmac
10-05-2007, 12:48 PM
If one were to use just Vista as it comes out of the box, and maybe a small handful of Microsoft programs like Office, Explorer, Outlook Express, Vista would probably be OK. When you start to step outside the box and add some additional hardware and its drivers, some other programs, utilities, etc...THAT's when you begin to see hair-pulling issues with Windows operating systems, in my experience. I've built a lot of Windows PCs using both Windows 2000 and XP, and I have far more experience troubleshooting IRQ conflicts and other startup idiosyncrasies than I want. As in the past, current Mac software is pretty tightly controlled relative to standards - those things just haven't been an issue. Vista is jsut more of the same Windows nonsense when it comes to software and hardware/driver compatibility.

UMP should be fine with Vista as long as he sticks with bare bones software.

east tx skier
10-05-2007, 12:48 PM
Exact words..."Vista is a loser"
I didn't ask beyond that...I kinda felt like it said it all.


Sorry, my friend, but I'm going to need more specifics. I'm running it on two computers at home and, so far, nothing but net. Not that I had any problem with XP though.

east tx skier
10-05-2007, 12:50 PM
hen you start to step outside the box and add some additional hardware and its drivers, some other programs, utilities, etc...THAT's when you begin to see hair-pulling issues with Windows operating systems, in my experience.

Bigmac, with which software and/or hardware might I expect to see problems running vista (other than Nero 6.3.x and Pinnacle Studio 8.x), which were not compatible?

MYMC
10-05-2007, 01:14 PM
Sorry, my friend, but I'm going to need more specifics. I'm running it on two computers at home and, so far, nothing but net. Not that I had any problem with XP though.
Doesnt bother me, no need to apologize...I'm a Mac user now:)

I wish I could say more but I didnt ask him if that was ok, so I will refrain. No need to push it with a billionaire...right?

bigmac
10-05-2007, 01:19 PM
Bigmac, with which software and/or hardware might I expect to see problems running vista (other than Nero 6.3.x and Pinnacle Studio 8.x), which were not compatible?
Adobe products come immediately to mind...the CS3 components in particular, and Premiere Elements is problematic as well. Random crashes, especially during video capture or rendering. Adobe is reportedly tearing its hair out trying to keep up and all of those programs are getting a continual flurry of updates. My buddy tells me he gets auto updates for Photoshop CS3 every time he opens it, and it still crashes. Also Dreamweaver and InDesign.

As to hardware, or hardware/software combos (like Garmin MapSource, for example) anything that requires drivers is a major crap shoot.

east tx skier
10-05-2007, 01:20 PM
Doesnt bother me, no need to apologize...I'm a Mac user now:)

I wish I could say more but I didnt ask him if that was ok, so I will refrain. No need to push it with a billionaire...right?

Sorry, I was just off at the Apple store looking at prices. Good thing that guy has money. :)

bigmac
10-05-2007, 01:25 PM
Sorry, I was just off at the Apple store looking at prices. Good thing that guy has money. :)Yes...Apple has never really made an effort to compete for the guy who's seriously interested in a $400 laptop. They've never really needed to, nor is it ever going to happen.

bcampbe7
10-05-2007, 01:28 PM
Apple is not without it's security flaws. Not near as much as Windows though...

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300667


As I have said before, I would love to try OSX but haven't had the chance.



Do you not have to worry about hardware conflicts with Macs? Can off the shelf peripheral devices be added easily?

bcampbe7
10-05-2007, 01:31 PM
Yes...Apple has never really made an effort to compete for the guy who's seriously interested in a $400 laptop. They've never really needed to, nor is it ever going to happen.


Along those same lines, Apple is not much into giving back to the community, are they? :D

bigmac
10-05-2007, 01:35 PM
Apple is not without it's security flaws. Not near as much as Windows though...

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=300667

Do you not have to worry about hardware conflicts with Macs? Can off the shelf peripheral devices be added easily?

Sure, you could hack an Apple, but you'd probably have to write the exploit yourself and you'd be pretty unlikely to make it to the core system.

Apple has security updates like Windows, just fewer of them.

I haven't had an issue with any off-the-shelf peripherals. For example, I added an Apple 500 gig hard drive for $350 :rolleyes: , needed two more so I bought a couple of 500 gig Western Digitals from NewEgg for $110 each instead. Plug and play...

MYMC
10-05-2007, 01:37 PM
Sorry, I was just off at the Apple store looking at prices. Good thing that guy has money. :)
Come on...a Macbook at $1099? Or the GIANT Imac with a 24" monitor and 2.8 Core for $2299...I guess its me but with the software that comes installed it seems pretty fair.

The computers that Maeghan killed over the last 3 years more than covers this bill. I guess the reality is that I've learned my lesson and you were born under a lucky star;) .

I'll stick with BigMac (get it?)

bigmac
10-05-2007, 01:38 PM
Along those same lines, Apple is not much into giving back to the community, are they? :D

Who cares? Like my vehicle manufacturer, I only want the company to be viable and make reliable and innovative products. I suppose that means switching from GM to Toyota as well as giving up Windows...;)

east tx skier
10-05-2007, 01:39 PM
Yes...Apple has never really made an effort to compete for the guy who's seriously interested in a $400 laptop. They've never really needed to, nor is it ever going to happen.

While the $400 laptop I picked up didn't have the processing power of the least expensive mac book, I saw an HP for half the price that spec'd out better in every way, faster dual core processor, hard drive 2x as large, dvd burner 15" screen versus 13", the list goes on. I would never want a laptop as my only computer. I see them as things to keep lean for the road. So my laptop can handle that duty with ease and I leave the rest to the desktop (not that I overpayed for that either).

I'm glad you guys like your computers. They are very nice looking (and I mean that). And if you want the Apple OS, then that's obviously the only choice. But to run Windows, I would not pay double for them.

I'm not all that worried about compatibility. I'm pretty sure, given the market share for windows, that I will be able to make just about anything work with my new computers, if not initially, then shortly.

MYMC
10-05-2007, 01:39 PM
Bigmac, Have you tried "Tiger" yet?

bcampbe7
10-05-2007, 01:39 PM
I haven't had an issue with any off-the-shelf peripherals. For example, I added an Apple 500 gig hard drive for $350 :rolleyes: , needed two more so I bought a couple of 500 gig Western Digitals from NewEgg for $110 each instead. Plug and play...

That is good to hear... I wasn't sure how well Mac's played with off the shelf equipment.

atlfootr
10-05-2007, 01:41 PM
sorry :( since I don't own one, I can't be of any help :rolleyes:

east tx skier
10-05-2007, 01:45 PM
Come on...a Macbook at $1099? Or the GIANT Imac with a 24" monitor and 2.8 Core for $2299...I guess its me but with the software that comes installed it seems pretty fair.

The computers that Maeghan killed over the last 3 years more than covers this bill. I guess the reality is that I've learned my lesson and you were born under a lucky star;) .

I'll stick with BigMac (get it?)

I'm not asking you to give up the Mac. Enjoy it.

I'll continue to have good experiences. My HP desktop with a 22" flatscreen, 2.5 ghz AMD 64 X2, 400 gig hd, 3 gigs onboard RAM (max 4 gigs) dvd burner with light scribe, 80 gig pocket drive slot, 15 in 1 card reader. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things. $729. I already had the software, but add $120 for a Nero upgrade and Premiere Elements. Everything I have plugged into it as a peripheral has worked fine. Driver updates have been plentiful. No regrets here and I don't expect any.

bcampbe7
10-05-2007, 01:47 PM
... (note that he's using a Mac...)


He is on Apple's board. :D

MYMC
10-05-2007, 01:51 PM
I'm not asking you to give up the Mac. Enjoy it.

I'll continue to have good experiences. My HP desktop with a 22" flatscreen, 2.5 ghz AMD 64 X2, 400 gig hd, 3 gigs onboard RAM (max 4 gigs) dvd burner with light scribe, 80 gig pocket drive slot, 15 in 1 card reader. I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things. $729. I already had the software, but add $120 for a Nero upgrade and Premiere Elements. Everything I have plugged into it as a peripheral has worked fine. Driver updates have been plentiful. No regrets here and I don't expect any.
You can almost hear Madona in the background..."Lucky Star":D

east tx skier
10-05-2007, 01:56 PM
You can almost hear Madona in the background..."Lucky Star":D

I lead a charmed life.

And ZZ ... "just got paid today, got me a pocket full of change."

I'm seriously thinking about getting that book "The Cult of Mac" with all the money I saved.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-05-2007, 01:57 PM
I lead a charmed life.

And ZZ ... "just got paid today, got me a pocket full of change."

I'm seriously thinking about getting that book "The Cult of Mac" with all the money I saved.
ROFLAMO!!!!! :uglyhamme :uglyhamme

MYMC
10-05-2007, 02:04 PM
I lead a charmed life.

And ZZ ... "just got paid today, got me a pocket full of change."

I'm seriously thinking about getting that book "The Cult of Mac" with all the money I saved.
Now that's funny...

What about some Pink Floyd..."money it's a drag"

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-05-2007, 02:19 PM
Now that's funny...

What about some Pink Floyd..."money it's a drag"

Or Some Spinal Tap "Gimme some Money"

Leroy
10-05-2007, 02:20 PM
So, UMP, have that MAC-PC thing figured out yet or are you going to wait to borrow Doug's book?

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-05-2007, 02:24 PM
So, UMP, have that MAC-PC thing figured out yet or are you going to wait to borrow Doug's book?
I think I am going to just scan the Pawn shops and Goodwills for an old Commodore 64 instead. this stuff is just too puzzling. Given my budget constraints and computing needs, I think I am going to go PC. I have been eyeing a HP Pavillion. Its got Eastie's & Beau's stamp of approval already. I dont know......maybe I will drag this out for months like the Monza saga......8p

bigmac
10-05-2007, 02:40 PM
Bigmac, Have you tried "Tiger" yet?I haven't used the beta - I don't think it's gone gold master yet, but that should be happening soon - likely hit the shelves within the next 6 weeks. I've seen a lot of reviews and screen shots....should be very cool.

east tx skier
10-05-2007, 03:36 PM
I think I am going to just scan the Pawn shops and Goodwills for an old Commodore 64 instead. this stuff is just too puzzling. Given my budget constraints and computing needs, I think I am going to go PC. I have been eyeing a HP Pavillion. Its got Eastie's & Beau's stamp of approval already. I dont know......maybe I will drag this out for months like the Monza saga......8p

UMP, as far as that HP goes, unless that remote is really something you care about, I think I'd just assume have the one that is a tad lighter (between those last two you showed me).

MYMC
10-05-2007, 03:40 PM
I haven't used the beta - I don't think it's gone gold master yet, but that should be happening soon - likely hit the shelves within the next 6 weeks. I've seen a lot of reviews and screen shots....should be very cool.
Thanks...I have a free upgrade when it's ready, due to the time frame we bought the Imac in.

Thanks!

milkmania
10-05-2007, 04:09 PM
http://www.tigerdirect.com/email/wem1471.asp?SRCCODE=WEM1471TT



just sayin'

east tx skier
10-05-2007, 04:12 PM
I just configured a $13K+ imac in their store. What's your address, Mike. I'll send it C.O.D. :)

MYMC
10-05-2007, 05:09 PM
I just configured a $13K+ imac in their store. What's your address, Mike. I'll send it C.O.D. :)
And this is the way you treat me now...I see how you are!:mad:

I did some shopping myself (for you of course) it seems that PC based machines haven't really changed much, and the pricing seems about right: http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Texas-Instruments-99-4A-Computer-w-Box-Books_W0QQitemZ300156205872QQihZ020QQcategoryZ4193 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

8p

MYMC
10-05-2007, 05:13 PM
East...check it out...new game consol sweeping the nation!
http://cgi.ebay.com/INTELLIVISION-SYSTEM-BOXED-45-DAY-WARRANTY_W0QQitemZ260166246411QQihZ016QQcategoryZ6 2054QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Who needs an XBox 360 or PS3...good old fashioned tech at the right price!;)

milkmania
10-05-2007, 05:13 PM
And this is the way you treat me now...I see how you are!:mad:

I did some shopping myself (for you of course) it seems that PC based machines haven't really changed much, and the pricing seems about right: http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Texas-Instruments-99-4A-Computer-w-Box-Books_W0QQitemZ300156205872QQihZ020QQcategoryZ4193 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

8p

yeah, but they're gonna rape you on the shipping charges:rolleyes:

MYMC
10-05-2007, 05:18 PM
A video of our on going battle!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id_kGL3M5Cg

east tx skier
10-05-2007, 05:24 PM
I'll have to give it a look tonight. Youtube is off limits around here these days.

east tx skier
10-05-2007, 05:25 PM
East...check it out...new game consol sweeping the nation!
http://cgi.ebay.com/INTELLIVISION-SYSTEM-BOXED-45-DAY-WARRANTY_W0QQitemZ260166246411QQihZ016QQcategoryZ6 2054QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Who needs an XBox 360 or PS3...good old fashioned tech at the right price!;)

They have not made a more fun baseball game ever than old school Intellivision. A buddy of mine still has his up and running.

Question, will the PS3 network with the Mac?

east tx skier
10-05-2007, 05:27 PM
And this is the way you treat me now...I see how you are!:mad:

I did some shopping myself (for you of course) it seems that PC based machines haven't really changed much, and the pricing seems about right: http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Texas-Instruments-99-4A-Computer-w-Box-Books_W0QQitemZ300156205872QQihZ020QQcategoryZ4193 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

8p

Our Apple IIe (complete with Koala pad and dual (that's dual) disk drives, and a dot matrix printer) ran more than the new base i-macs. Of course, it lasted nearly 9 years. Is Bank Street Writer standard on the new Macs?

MYMC
10-05-2007, 05:32 PM
Our Apple IIe (complete with Koala pad and dual (that's dual) disk drives, and a dot matrix printer) ran more than the new base i-macs. Of course, it lasted nearly 9 years. Is Bank Street Writer standard on the new Macs?
Careful where you throw those stones...getting close to your Windows (ha ha :uglyhamme ) According to Wiki: "Bank Street Writer was a word processor for Apple II, Atari 8-bit, Commodore, Macintosh, and IBM PC computers. Apparently written by Kuzmiak & The Bank Street College Of Education, and released by Broderbund software."

Rickkirch
10-05-2007, 05:48 PM
Wow this question sure has recived some great response.

My vote is for a Mac for all the reasons listed before.

A Mac is not more expensive if you value your time and want a truly enjoyable experience.

You own a Mastercraft for the same reason.

I am sure you can get a Moomba the has the same HP,Length, beam,ect as your Mastercraft, but you will never have the same pride in ownership.

Dell = Moomba
Mac = Mastercraft.

If you want a deal on a Mac look at the apple on-line store under the special deals / refurbished section. That is where I have bought my last 12 Macs. (For home and my company)

These deals change daily so look often.

You can get a great ibook for $799 - $849 in the refurbished section. Same 1 year warrantee.

east tx skier
10-05-2007, 05:57 PM
Wow this question sure has recived some great response.

My vote it for a Mac for all the reasons listed before.

A Mac is not more expensive if you value your time and want a truly enjoyable experience.

You own a Mastercraft for the same reason.

I am sure you can get a Momba the has the same HP,Length, beam,ect as your Mastercraft, but you will never have the same pride in ownership.

Dell = Momba
Mac = Mastercraft.

If you want a deal on a Mac look at the apple on-line store under the special deals / refurbished section. That is where I have bought my last 12 Macs. (For home and my company)

These deals change daily so look often.

You can get a great ibook for $799 - $849 in the refurbished section. Same 1 year warrantee.

Do Macs have spellcheck? Moomba. Sorry. Had to.

If the ODM wasn't the same in many instances for Mac and Dell, that'd be a fair comparison (assuming we're talking about two machines running Windows as the OS). I think the GMC versus the Chevy Suburban was a better analogy in that case. If we're talking OS X that's another thing as there's only one place to go for that. I'm fine with the windows interface and have not experienced the problems so often cited in these sorts of debates. So changing operating systems for no reason doesn't have the appeal to me it may for some.

By the way, I love the part about "valued time and truly enjoyable experience." I obviously don't value those things because of my computer choice. 8p But seriously, PCs can pull up porn, too. :D So it may be a wash.

Question. Why do Apple users hate puppies? ;) Discuss.

Leroy
10-05-2007, 05:58 PM
This puts in simple language we all understand and will surely halt this thread!


Dell = Momba
Mac = Mastercraft.

east tx skier
10-05-2007, 06:00 PM
Careful where you throw those stones...getting close to your Windows (ha ha :uglyhamme ) According to Wiki: "Bank Street Writer was a word processor for Apple II, Atari 8-bit, Commodore, Macintosh, and IBM PC computers. Apparently written by Kuzmiak & The Bank Street College Of Education, and released by Broderbund software."

So is that a yes? ;)

I know, I know, it hasn't been as popular since they released MacWrite (or MacPlaymate).

Rickkirch
10-05-2007, 06:12 PM
Hey,
East TX,
No slight intended.
but remember...
"There are some things money can't buy. For everything else, there's Macintosh."

dmayer84
10-05-2007, 06:18 PM
Just dual boot OSX on a pc, problem solved.

MYMC
10-05-2007, 06:25 PM
Just dual boot OSX on a pc, problem solved.
Almost...it will still be ugly.

east tx skier
10-05-2007, 06:40 PM
Hey,
East TX,
No slight intended.
but remember...
"There are some things money can't buy. For everything else, there's Macintosh."

RDRR 8p .....

east tx skier
10-05-2007, 06:41 PM
Almost...it will still be ugly.

Question. If MasterCraft = Mac, how does VDiG factor in.

/poke poke
//run run

atlfootr
10-05-2007, 06:51 PM
Do Macs have spellcheck? Moomba. Sorry. Had to.Eastie, your crule 'ta da brother :rolleyes:

bigmac
10-05-2007, 07:31 PM
If the ODM wasn't the same in many instances for Mac and Dell, that'd be a fair comparison (assuming we're talking about two machines running Windows as the OS). I think the GMC versus the Chevy Suburban was a better analogy in that case.

The off-shore company that actually assembles the computer has no bearing on the computer. Compal, Quanta, whomever, has nothing to do with the Mac computer other than to assemble it exactly the way Apple tells them to, using the parts and components that Apple tells them to or provides them with. I suspect Dell does it exactly the same way (for at least the upper part of their line).... just not as well. Those Taiwanese companies do make a lot of cheapie on-spec computers for lot of the other popular computer companies like WalMart :rolleyes: .

I've always loved these Mac v. PC debates, although this one is certainly more civil than most :confused: . In the interest of keeping the thread alive, I'll make the bold statement that the implementation of virtually EVERY significant advance in personal computing has come from Apple....

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-05-2007, 08:44 PM
Whoosh! :popcorn:

MC2000190
10-05-2007, 10:19 PM
There Is A Reason Why You Bought A Mastercraft! Same For Apple Products! Just Get The Best!

Rickkirch
10-06-2007, 08:18 AM
Hey East TX,
I sorry I copied you.
How about this one...

MaCintosh
Held To A Higher Standard
:)

bigmac
10-07-2007, 11:51 AM
Bigmac, Have you tried "Tiger" yet?I haven't used the beta - I don't think it's gone gold master yet, but that should be happening soon - likely hit the shelves within the next 6 weeks. I've seen a lot of reviews and screen shots....should be very cool.

Sorry...were you talking about Tiger (http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/), or Leopard (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/)? Leopard is the new OS coming out in November and it looks very cool..."biggest OSX upgrade ever". Tiger (10.4.10) is the current OS and I've been using that since I got this machine.

Farmer Ted
10-07-2007, 12:00 PM
East...check it out...new game consol sweeping the nation!
http://cgi.ebay.com/INTELLIVISION-SYSTEM-BOXED-45-DAY-WARRANTY_W0QQitemZ260166246411QQihZ016QQcategoryZ6 2054QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Who needs an XBox 360 or PS3...good old fashioned tech at the right price!;)


we had one of those growing up, B-17 Bomber was awesome

baseball and football were pretty good too

Brent
10-07-2007, 12:55 PM
I'll start by saying I have only owned Mac's.
Apple = Goode water skis & Microsoft computers = HO

Neither them are bad ,they just suit different people! Mac's are more creative & more intuitive & Microsoft operating systems are more geared towards big business & are far more abundant in this world.

BTW I've never owned a Goode waterski But hope to Demo one in the near future , right now I'm on a Sixam 1 point & really happy with it.

MYMC
10-08-2007, 11:32 AM
Sorry...were you talking about Tiger (http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/), or Leopard (http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/)? Leopard is the new OS coming out in November and it looks very cool..."biggest OSX upgrade ever". Tiger (10.4.10) is the current OS and I've been using that since I got this machine.
Sorry meant Leopard...

MYMC
10-08-2007, 11:44 AM
I'll start by saying I have only owned Mac's.
Apple = Goode water skis & Microsoft computers = HO

Neither them are bad ,they just suit different people! Mac's are more creative & more intuitive & Microsoft operating systems are more geared towards big business & are far more abundant in this world.

BTW I've never owned a Goode waterski But hope to Demo one in the near future , right now I'm on a Sixam 1 point & really happy with it.
If you have never owned a Goode ski then how can you say this? Jeez talk about fighting words! Until you have a Goode break or have that damn "velcro" boot mounting system come off you really have not fully enjoyed the ski to the fullest.

6AM...the Tandy of water skis.

bigmac
10-08-2007, 04:36 PM
Like most of PC mfgrs, Dell doesn't have to put the amount of money into R&D that Apple puts in to keep moving the field of personal computing forward. Apple identifies the technology trends, the PC world follows suit. Anyway, Apple's market capitalization today is more than double that of Dell.

Apple: $140.4 billion

Dell: $62.27 billion

I found this interesting, especlally given Michael Dell's famous quote when asked 10 years ago what he'd do if he were CEO of Apple: “What would I do? I’d shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders.” (link (http://www.news.com/Dell-Apple-should-close-shop/2100-1001_3-203937.html))

http://fortuneapple20.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/picture-36.jpg

Brent
10-08-2007, 04:48 PM
MYMC

I was referring to the innovation that Goode has brought to the waterski industry! A buddy of mine spent most of this past summer trying to set a Goode 9800 up to his liking & never got it, He went back to his trusty SixAm. You will find more Goode water skis @ high end waterski events then anything else, but that does not mean it works for everyone.


I love Apple & my Apple Stock!

MYMC
10-08-2007, 05:54 PM
MYMC

I was referring to the innovation that Goode has brought to the waterski industry! A buddy of mine spent most of this past summer trying to set a Goode 9800 up to his liking & never got it, He went back to his trusty SixAm. You will find more Goode water skis @ high end waterski events then anything else, but that does not mean it works for everyone.


I love Apple & my Apple Stock!
Brent,
The only innovation from Dave Goode was combining a KD & HO bottom. Past that I can think of nothing that Goode has done other than outmarket most other water ski companies. If you want to talk about numbers HO outsells all the other COMBINED...

I'll agree with you on the Apple stuff, but argue day and night about Goode.

Brent
10-09-2007, 06:52 PM
This is dusk so I'll let it qualify for day & night. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Goode the first to come out with carbon fibre skis?

east tx skier
10-09-2007, 06:54 PM
Are you guys still arguing about this. War's over. UMP won!

Brent
10-09-2007, 08:02 PM
Doug

I think of this as a discussion!

BTW what did Ump win?:D

east tx skier
10-09-2007, 08:53 PM
Of course, a discussion.

I think he won a PC. :)

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-09-2007, 09:50 PM
Of course, a discussion.

I think he won a PC. :)
I did? where? how do I collect it? :confused:

COOL! that raffle ticket I bought 6 years ago was worth it!

Monte
10-09-2007, 09:58 PM
I did? where? how do I collect it? :confused:

COOL! that raffle ticket I bought 6 years ago was worth it!

UMP I won a Lexus two weeks ago.. They are going to deliver it sometime last week:confused: :( :mad:

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-09-2007, 10:20 PM
I had a revelation this morning on throne and I have decided that I need a box that runs unix because it is the only way ideas can be exchanged. :cool:

Leroy
10-09-2007, 10:35 PM
Unix, good choice! Log on with your 5 digit numeric user ID!

Linux is also pretty stable....only because there are so few programs to run on it.

LakePirate
10-10-2007, 12:13 AM
Unix, good choice! Log on with your 5 digit numeric user ID!

Linux is also pretty stable....only because there are so few programs to run on it.


Thanks Kernel

Leroy
10-10-2007, 08:45 AM
A Curly, nyuk-nyuk-nyuk :D


Thanks Kernel

milkmania
10-13-2007, 08:22 PM
Me & Bill found UMP a computer

ski_king
10-13-2007, 08:31 PM
Me & Bill found UMP a computer
or this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/COMMODORE-VIC-20_W0QQitemZ120171566250QQihZ002QQcategoryZ74945QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

bigmac
10-13-2007, 08:36 PM
I keep telling you guys...Apple is better...

http://www.computercloset.org/Apple_II_Plus.jpg

TX.X-30 fan
10-14-2007, 01:19 AM
[QUOTE=bigmac]I keep telling you guys...Apple is better...


That is a sweet looking setup, but how does the porn look on it. :confused:



28404

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-14-2007, 12:45 PM
probably lime green and black.