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tex
09-29-2007, 09:40 AM
A buddy sent this to me. It's worth the read if you are buying drugs the legal way!


I checked this out and it's TRUE ! See the following site for verification.
DON T.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/generic.asp


This is worth reading. Be sure to read to the end. You will be amazed.

COSTCO, read this
Let's hear it for Costco!! (This is just mind-boggling!) Make sure you read all the way past the list of the drugs The woman that signed below is a Budget Analyst out of federal
Washington , DC offices.

Did you ever wonder how much it costs a drug company for the active ingredient in prescription medications? Some people think it must cost a lot, since many drugs sell for more than $2.00 per tablet. We did a search of
offshore chemical synthesizers that supply the active ingredients found in drugs approved by the FDA. As we have revealed in past issues of
Life Extension, a significant percentage of drugs sold in the United States contain active ingredients made in other countries. In our
independent investigation of how much profit drug companies really make, we obtained the actual price of active ingredients used in some
of the most popular drugs sold in America

The data below speaks for itself.

Celebrex: 100 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets): $130.27
Cost of general active ingredients: $0.60
Percent markup: 21,712%


Claritin: 10 mg
Consumer Price (100 tablets): $215.17
Cost of general active ingredients: $0.71
Percent markup: 30,306%


Keflex: 250 mg
Consumer Price (100 tablets): $157.39
Cost of general active ingredients: $1.88
Percent markup: 8,372%


Lipitor: 20 mg
Consumer Price (100 tablets): $272.37
Cost of general active ingredients: $5.80
Percent markup: 4,696%


Norvasc: 10 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets): $188.29
Cost of general active ingredients: $0.14
Percent markup: 134,493%


Paxil: 20 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets): $220.27
Cost of general active ingredients: $7.60
Percent markup: 2,898%


Prevacid: 30 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets): $44.77
Cost of general active ingredients: $1.01
Percent markup: 34,136%


Prilosec : 20 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets): $360.97
Cost of general active ingredients $0.52
Percent markup: 69,417%


Prozac: 20 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets) : $247.47
Cost of general active ingredients: $0.11
Percent markup: 224,973%


Tenormin: 50 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets): $104.47
Cost of general active ingredients: $0.13
Percent markup: 80,362%


Vasotec: 10 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets): $102.37
Cost of general active ingredients: $0.20
Percent markup: 51,185%


Xanax: 1 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets) : $136.79
Cost of general active ingredients: $0.024
Percent markup: 569,958%


Zestril: 20 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets) $89.89
Cost of general active ingredients $3.20
Percent markup: 2,809


Zithromax: 600 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets): $1,482.19
Cost of general active ingredients: $18.78
Percent markup: 7,892%


Zocor: 40 mg
Consumer price (100 tablets): $350.27
Cost of general active ingredients: $8.63
Percent markup: 4,059%

Zoloft: 50 mg
Consumer price: $206.87
Cost of general active ingredients: $1.75
Percent markup: 11,821%


Since the cost of prescription drugs is so outrageous, I thought everyone should know about this. Please read the following and pass it on.
It pays to shop around. This helps to solve the mystery as to why they can afford to put a Walgreen's on every corner. On Monday night,
Steve Wilson, an investigative reporter for Channel 7 News in Detroit, did a story on generic drug price gouging by pharmacies. He found in his investigation, that some of these generic drugs were marked up as much as 3,000% or more. Yes, that's not a typo.....three thousand percent! So often, we blame the drug companies for the high cost of drugs, and usually rightfully so. But in this case, the fault clearly lies with the pharmacies themselves. For example, if you had to buy a prescription
drug, and bought the name brand, you might pay $100 for 100 pills.

The pharmacist might tell you that if you get the generic equivalent, they would only cost $80, making you think you are "saving" $20. What
the pharmacist is not telling you is that those 100 generic pills may have only cost him $10!

At the end of the report, one of the anchors asked Mr. Wilson whether, or not there were any pharmacies that did not adhere to this practice, and he said that Costco consistently charged little over their cost for the generic drugs.


I went to the Costco site, where you can look up any drug, and get its online price. It says that the in-store prices are consistent with the
online prices. I was appalled. Just to give you one example from my own experience, I had to use the drug, Compazine, which helps prevent nausea in chemo patients.

I used the generic equivalent, which cost $54.99 for 60 pills at CVS. I checked the price at Costco, and I could have bought 100 pills for $19.89. For 145 of my pain pills, I paid
$72.57. I could have got 150 at Costco for $28.08.

I would like to mention, that although Costco is a "membership" type store, you do NOT have to be a member to buy prescriptions there,
as it is a federally regulated substance. You just tell them at the door that you wish to use the pharmacy, and they will let you in. (this is
true)

I went there this past Thursday and asked them. I am asking each of you to please help me by copying this letter, and passing it into your own e-mail, and send it to everyone you know with an e-mail address.

Sharon L. Davis
Budget Analyst
U.S. Department of Commerce
Room 6839
Office Ph: 202-482-4458
Office Fax: 202-482-5480
E-mail Address: sdavis@doc.gov

__._,_.___

milkmania
09-29-2007, 11:05 AM
A buddy sent this to me. It's worth the read if you are buying drugs the legal way!
*snip

I checked this out and it's TRUE ! See the following site for verification.
DON T.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/generic.asp


Sharon L. Davis
Budget Analyst
U.S. Department of Commerce
Room 6839
Office Ph: 202-482-4458
Office Fax: 202-482-5480
E-mail Address: sdavis@doc.gov



I looked it up a different way

Sharon L. Davis http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/genericrx.html

either way, I know they're gouging Americans:mad:

JimN
09-29-2007, 11:44 AM
We need to agree that they charge way too much for drugs but the percentages are way off, and I assume it's to get everyone all freaked out. Dividing the cost into the retail price isn't going to show up as anything close to tens of thousands of percent.

Not that it's right to gouge but dividing the retail price by the cost of raw ingredients isn't the way to find markup. Plus, just using the cost of the active ingredients hardly comes close to the actual cost of the drugs- R&D, facilities, warehousing, lobbyists, payroll, insurance (and you know that has to be incredibly high) and all kinds of other costs have to be associated with the raw materials to find the true cost. It can take well over ten years and hundreds of trials before the FDA approves a drug and even then, all of the side effects won't be known, and that adds to the cost.

No, Big Drug isn't in my pocket but accuracy is more important than just spewing numbers that cause people to get PO'd. Not much different from one kid coming up and telling lies about someone's kid, knowing that the parent will open a can of whoop-azz on the one lied about, only because the liar wants the other kid to get his azz whooped. The fact that the whoopee deserves it is secondary to why it was whooped. Lying to get things done is a bad way to work.

I know a lot of people hate Wally World but they have a lot of drugs in their $4 program and for people who can't afford meds, it's a big help. They have made millions by saving people hundreds of millions.

bigmac
09-29-2007, 12:28 PM
The whole "Big Pharma" issue is fraught with conspiracy paranoia, and although there's a lot of smoke to the issue, there isn't that much heat or light. As JimN observed, there is a broad context here and the quoted article only looks at the self-serving aspect of it. It's an easy hot-button issue, because it has to do with healthcare, and a substantial portion of the public in the US thinks they are entitled have all of their healthcare needs met for "free".

I'm no fan of the big drug companies, but my concerns don't have much to do with pricing or marketing to the public.

tex
09-29-2007, 12:31 PM
We need to agree that they charge way too much for drugs but the percentages are way off, and I assume it's to get everyone all freaked out. Dividing the cost into the retail price isn't going to show up as anything close to tens of thousands of percent.

Not that it's right to gouge but dividing the retail price by the cost of raw ingredients isn't the way to find markup. Plus, just using the cost of the active ingredients hardly comes close to the actual cost of the drugs- R&D, facilities, warehousing, lobbyists, payroll, insurance (and you know that has to be incredibly high) and all kinds of other costs have to be associated with the raw materials to find the true cost. It can take well over ten years and hundreds of trials before the FDA approves a drug and even then, all of the side effects won't be known, and that adds to the cost.

No, Big Drug isn't in my pocket but accuracy is more important than just spewing numbers that cause people to get PO'd. Not much different from one kid coming up and telling lies about someone's kid, knowing that the parent will open a can of whoop-azz on the one lied about, only because the liar wants the other kid to get his azz whooped. The fact that the whoopee deserves it is secondary to why it was whooped. Lying to get things done is a bad way to work.

I know a lot of people hate Wally World but they have a lot of drugs in their $4 program and for people who can't afford meds, it's a big help. They have made millions by saving people hundreds of millions.
I don't care how you add it up-I just know where I'm going from now on!

WTRSK1R
09-29-2007, 01:58 PM
The other thing to consider is the typical drug development cycle is 7-10 years, and frequently is longer. Thats 10 years of investment in research, clinical studies, regulatory work, and in many cases the end of that 10 years does not result in a commercial product. I am not trying to defend the high prices, but you have to realize that the number of drugs that are commercialized is a VERY small percentage of the drugs being investigated. Unfortunately, it is very costly to develop a new product, and the Quality Management System required by the FDA does not make it cheap to manufacture even after it is commercialized. The good news is this is why we generally have safe products on the market here, but on the other hand there is a cost to that safety. Generics still need to meet all the Quality System Requirements, but they do NONE of the research or clinical trials associated with the New Drug Application for new chemicals.

Stritt
09-29-2007, 08:14 PM
SMOKE and MIRRORS!!!!
LOST LEADERS!!!!!


Average is 85% of all scripts filled involve a 3rd party Insurance....15% is cash business that can take advantage of the lost leader med's offered. The formulary (drug's offered) is severely lacking for the 15% non insured scripts.




I work directly with independant pharmacies, the company I represent is also a drug wholesaler.......$$ is made by HIGH volume and LOW margins....

TX.X-30 fan
09-29-2007, 08:37 PM
a substantial portion of the public in the US thinks they are entitled have all of their healthcare needs met for "free".I'm no fan of the big drug companies, but my concerns don't have much to do with pricing or marketing to the public.



28011



Vote Hillary, Your cradle to grave solution. ;)



44% of the US population believes that health care should be FREE!!!!

If you find yourself within that statistic.... GOOD LUCK!!!

Doug G
09-29-2007, 08:53 PM
The whole "Big Pharma" issue is fraught with conspiracy paranoia, and although there's a lot of smoke to the issue, there isn't that much heat or light. As JimN observed, there is a broad context here and the quoted article only looks at the self-serving aspect of it. It's an easy hot-button issue, because it has to do with healthcare, and a substantial portion of the public in the US thinks they are entitled have all of their healthcare needs met for "free".

I'm no fan of the big drug companies, but my concerns don't have much to do with pricing or marketing to the public.


What are your concerns?

Leroy
09-29-2007, 08:57 PM
We really should have basic health coverage for everyone. We pay for it whether we want to or not. The poor person that shows up at the ER ends up being paid for by everyone else. WOuld probably have been cheaper if you can get basic preventative care for everyone.

For the prescription drugs, it is a capital market and if it is that easy anyone is welcome to start a get rich quick business. I think this is a great business model for USA, requires lots of highly educated people, lots of research, lots of innovation, lots of people to take a product to market, is not a enviromental mess like making steel, raw materials are relatively cheap and you can get business protection via patents.

bigmac
09-29-2007, 09:05 PM
What are your concerns?Conflict of interest in the way their clinical research is conducted. They hire independant clinical researchers, but may or may not let the study results be published.

JimN
09-29-2007, 10:36 PM
"We really should have basic health coverage for everyone."

If we add "at a reasonable cost", I would agree. Companies like Aurora drive the cost up in the areas where they're located and then the insurance companies charge more for the premiums, like here. The problem with letting people think they're entitled to it is that after awhile, they want more to be added to what they get, then keep heaping it on.

The old, "Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile".

What if we sent a bill for uninsured illegal alien healthcare to their country of origin? Think they'd pay it?

TX.X-30 fan
09-29-2007, 11:54 PM
Everyone should really provide for their own basic and catastrophic health care. No more 3rd party, go to the doctor and pay him/her for services period!

Why should doctors have to hire people to file insurance claims 24/7. That's just stupid. get the farging ins. companies out of health care, and this country will continue to have the best health care on the planet as we have now!!!!!!

Leroy
09-30-2007, 12:31 AM
Living in Belgium for two years we became big fans of their system. Would our system have to change a lot, yes, is their health care the best, probably not, but in terms of care and cost I think their system was really good. My wife, a nurse thought the way medical care was handled in Europe was better than what we are doing now. We spend an incredible amount on health care now.

"We really should have basic health coverage for everyone."

If we add "at a reasonable cost", I would agree. Companies like Aurora drive the cost up in the areas where they're located and then the insurance companies charge more for the premiums, like here. The problem with letting people think they're entitled to it is that after awhile, they want more to be added to what they get, then keep heaping it on.

The old, "Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile".

What if we sent a bill for uninsured illegal alien healthcare to their country of origin? Think they'd pay it?

JDK
09-30-2007, 03:41 AM
The whole "Big Pharma" issue is fraught with conspiracy paranoia, and although there's a lot of smoke to the issue, there isn't that much heat or light.

I'm no fan of the big drug companies, but my concerns don't have much to do with pricing or marketing to the public.

I just about fell out of my chair laughing when I read this. The smoke and mirrors are bad enought in Canada, but ....... but for you to say there isn't much heat or light to this issue in the US would be comedic, if the result of the shenanigans that 'big pharma' get away with wasn't so sad.

bigmac
09-30-2007, 09:57 AM
Yes, the conspiracy paranoia transcends international boundaries.

Granite_33
09-30-2007, 01:38 PM
Anyone ever looked at their statements from hospitals or doctors?

Amount billed. $7500
Amount Discounted $6500
cost of Care $1000
Amount Paid $750
Amont you owe: $250

An 87% Discount. Now somebody tell me that this makes sense and if you believe the hosp or doctor when they bill $7500????? Especially when it gets discounted down to $1000, and you know that everyone is making money on the deal.

Instead of looking at drug company profits alone........lets take a look at insurance company profits as well. IE Cardinal Health. 1 year profits......$2.2 billion on $87Billion of sales.

I dont have any answers other than to say that there are too many hands in the healthcare cookie jar. Throw in govt funded medicaid and medicare and you now have a government beauracracy involved in the mix as well. Litigation.....how about loser pays? How about getting the insurance lobby out of Washington?
This is obviously a flashpoint topic.......but everyone needs some type of healthcare and the only way to get it to everyone is to make it much more competitive and affordable.........not to have the government take over the payment responsibility of a system that already has too much cost in it already.

JimN
09-30-2007, 04:10 PM
"$2.2 billion on $87Billion of sales."

Net, or gross profit?

Can you name another business that would be happy with 2.5% profit? I can't.

Apparently, doctors and athletes are in the same boat. As Patrick Ewing said, "Yeah, we make a lot but we spend a lot, too".

bigmac
09-30-2007, 05:13 PM
"$2.2 billion on $87Billion of sales."

Net, or gross profit?

Can you name another business that would be happy with 2.5% profit? I can't.

Apparently, doctors and athletes are in the same boat. As Patrick Ewing said, "Yeah, we make a lot but we spend a lot, too".

Let's clarify this a little...doctors make no money from the drugs that they prescribe. Especially in day-to-day practice, they don't get paid in any way, shape, or form on a "per prescription basis", no kickbacks, nothing. Maybe a free pen or a submarine sandwich from the local drug company rep if they have some hot new drug they're pushing. Perhaps if that doctor happens to own a drug store...but I can tell you with absolute certainty that Stark II laws, insurance companies, and the WalMart/CostCo/Walgreens of the world have made margins so tight that there is far more money in that drug store selling rubbers and hairspray than in selling pharmaceuticals.

If I had the money to buy a drug store, I can guarantee you I'd buy a Starbucks franchise instead.

tex
09-30-2007, 05:28 PM
Glad to get things shaken up around here!

uncleboo
09-30-2007, 06:44 PM
A version of Hillary's health care plan was adopted in TN--a la "Tenncare". The exercise in fraud, waste, and mismanagement nearly bankrupted the state. Now lets expand that to a nationwide scale and see if the problems are handled any better. (I would bet every red cent I own that it won't be). It is great in theory for everyone to have universal health care, but is another thing to actually put a viable system into practice.

bigmac
09-30-2007, 06:54 PM
It is great in theory for everyone to have universal health care, but is another thing to actually put a viable system into practice.

...especially given your average American's expectations about how and when that health care should be delivered.

Roonie's
09-30-2007, 07:23 PM
Let's clarify this a little...doctors make no money from the drugs that they prescribe. Especially in day-to-day practice, they don't get paid in any way, shape, or form on a "per prescription basis", no kickbacks, nothing. Maybe a free pen or a submarine sandwich from the local drug company rep if they have some hot new drug they're pushing. Perhaps if that doctor happens to own a drug store...but I can tell you with absolute certainty that Stark II laws, insurance companies, and the WalMart/CostCo/Walgreens of the world have made margins so tight that there is far more money in that drug store selling rubbers and hairspray than in selling pharmaceuticals.

If I had the money to buy a drug store, I can guarantee you I'd buy a Starbucks franchise instead.

Agree. Also, a lot of money goes into R & D and you would be suprised how much money it takes to get a drug to the market and how many drugs never make it to the market due to failure.

tex
09-30-2007, 08:05 PM
Weed is still around right? My Glaucoma is acting up!

JimN
09-30-2007, 08:13 PM
I didn't mean to infer that doctors get rich from drug sales, just that a lot of them make a lot of money.

"If I had the money to buy a drug store, I can guarantee you I'd buy a Starbucks franchise instead."

So, Walgreen's doesn't make much profit on drugs? Wow! Starbucks better be raking it in, at the prices they charge.

TMCNo1
09-30-2007, 08:28 PM
I didn't mean to infer that doctors get rich from drug sales, just that a lot of them make a lot of money.

"If I had the money to buy a drug store, I can guarantee you I'd buy a Starbucks franchise instead."

So, Walgreen's doesn't make much profit on drugs? Wow! Starbucks better be raking it in, at the prices they charge.

WOW, caffine and Viagra, what a perfect combo!

Threadjack remember the old question/joke, " Do you smoke after Sex"? "I don't know, I never looked to see"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bigmac
09-30-2007, 08:32 PM
I didn't mean to infer that doctors get rich from drug sales, just that a lot of them make a lot of money.

"If I had the money to buy a drug store, I can guarantee you I'd buy a Starbucks franchise instead."

So, Walgreen's doesn't make much profit on drugs? Wow! Starbucks better be raking it in, at the prices they charge.


Walgreens probably does, but they can make up for the thin profit margin with massive volume...a hedge not available to your corner druggist. Most of those guys aren't around anymore, they've aligned themselves with big buying chains like Rexall, or CVS, or Synder, so they can get volume pricing too. They aren't getting rich though...it's the only way they can even come close to staying in the game with Walmart or Costco.

JDK
10-01-2007, 02:27 PM
Yes, the conspiracy paranoia transcends international boundaries.

Really???
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/drugs/2005-04-25-drug-lobby-cover_x.htm
Tell me that this sh!t doesn't buy influence on both sides of the border.
I'm still laughing at your first statement.

bigmac
10-01-2007, 02:29 PM
Really???
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/drugs/2005-04-25-drug-lobby-cover_x.htm
Tell me that this sh!t doesn't buy influence on both sides of the border.
I'm still laughing at your first statement.

I'm glad to see that we are amusing each other.

phecksel
10-04-2007, 09:53 PM
I googled drug company marketing costs and this was just one link (http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/mdd/v04/i12/html/12money.html). $500 million for one pill, ONE PILL! And they are anticipating $1,000,000,000.00 That's a lot of zeros. I've always been adamant against cholesterol lowering medications. But, what was most amazing, was the average amount of money they spent marketing Lipitor to MD's. Something like a ridiculous $10,000 annually per DOCTOR. My old MD absolutely refused to see drug company reps. Said he would not be compromised by all the graft they wanted to give him.