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View Full Version : 85 S&S What Would You Pay??


BrianM
09-18-2007, 11:06 AM
Someone in my club has an '85 S&S that they are thinking of selling. I am thinking about buying it doing the needed repairs and freshining and then selling it in the spring.

The boat is an '85 S&S with grey hull and dark grey stripe. Black stars and MC logo. The boat has been coverd and in indoor storage for at least the last 5 years. The block was drained and has not been started in that time. There is no major exterior rust or oil etc on the block or transmission. The owner tried to start it a few years ago but had gushing fuel from the carb so it did not start and they didn't want to fool with it. According to others in the club the boat ran great before the period of non use. So I figure it needs a new carb with some soft lines and hose. A good fuel tank cleaning along with fluid and filter changes, plugs, wires, cap, rotor and a new battery.

Hull and gel is in good shape no major damage. Gel could use a good buffing and wax but I am confident that with a little elbow grease it will look great. Interior is in nice shape. Original interior (that canvas stuff MC used for a year or two) is a little dirty but has no cuts or tears. Carpet is again dirty but no major stains and should clean up well. Boat shows just over 500 hours on the meter and I am confident that it is correct. Has a non MC galvanized (but the boat and trailer have not been used in salt) trailer with breaks that although not the best looking trailer is more than servicable.

So if you were looking for a winter project hoping to make a few bucks next spring what would you pay??

Jayc
09-18-2007, 11:48 AM
Unless you get it for a steal there's not much money to be made compared with the time spent refurbing it.

If however you are doing it for a challenge, hobby or just for the love of it then its got to be worth a few thousand bucks. Offer them 3k and see where it goes from there

M-Funf
09-18-2007, 12:16 PM
That seems like it would be a pretty straight forward winter project if you've got the space and the time. As long as you don't go overboard on replacing parts that don't need it or adding things that aren't necessary, you could probably keep the cost of the repairs under $1k...assuming that you don't find anything crazy bad with it.

You'll probably have a hundred or more hours into it by the time you're done, but that doesn't cost you anything...

The one thing that got my attention was that you said they are "thinking" of selling. That tells me that they are going to want more than it's worth...or more than you're willing to pay.

I'd start low. Find out what a freshly done '85 sells for, take off how much you think you'll have to spend and see if it will make you any money. I don't know if 3k is going to be enough to get them interested, but I guess you have to start somewhere...

My :twocents:

Chas
09-18-2007, 12:19 PM
I just bought a '76 S&S for $3000. Seller brought the registration up to date for me - I paid a total of $100 for transfer and this year's registration for both trailer and boat. That has been a problem with other boats/trailers I have purchased.

My boat needed a shaft - which I purchased from Elbert's ($300) and have on hand. I need to align the whole thing, it is way out of whack. My back is messed up or I would have finished the install and water tested it all.

The boat came with three props and a new battery. I will put a new prop on it as soon as I try it out with the three I have and find out how each performs. One is cupped, looks like a very steep pitch - I image for higher speed. All three could be used as is, but I want to start next season with a new one.

Mine needs new vinyl and has no back seat, and the trailer has surface rust and could use a good sanding and paint.

No covers at all.

Mine has a good battery - might be new - a Mallory solid-state ignition with hot coil, and it starts easily, idles smoothly and sounds very healthy. I haven't looked up the serial number on the engine yet, but it seems to be a newer 351 w/ GT40 heads.

Manifolds seem fine - no leaks, no rust, and they get warm evenly with no hot spots.

Needs carpet.

Just offered this for comparison.

BrianM
09-18-2007, 12:26 PM
The one thing that got my attention was that you said they are "thinking" of selling. That tells me that they are going to want more than it's worth...or more than you're willing to pay.

The owner just really doen't want to deal with it. Not fixing it or bothering with what it would take to actively try and sell it. There are some resons behind it but that is the jist. They are paying $75 a month to store it over the last 5+years. I asked if they would be interested in selling and they said yes. Wouldn't do it unless it was a deal. If not it can continue to sit.
That seems like it would be a pretty straight forward winter project if you've got the space and the time. As long as you don't go overboard on replacing parts that don't need it or adding things that aren't necessary, you could probably keep the cost of the repairs under $1k...assuming that you don't find anything crazy bad with it.



I would plan to only do the basics. Get it running well and do a really good cleaning to bring the interior and exterior back to a nice luster. The boat is in overall good condition. The unknow is how much it will take to get it running. I think you are right on the cost of repairs. I figure about $1k-1.5k and it ought to be a solid 7.5-8 boat.

east tx skier
09-18-2007, 12:26 PM
You ought to be able to get that carb rebuilt for around $225. After that, I think the other parts will run you maybe $300 or so. The rest is just lots and lots of labor on your part.

The things that stand out to me as red flags far as resale go are (1) the trailer, (2) the canvas interior (whether it's original or not), and (3) the grey hull. Someone looking for an 85 S&S seems to have quite a few choices these days. It seems they're always showing up on ebay. I think a grey hull would see some strong competition from the blue, red, brown metalflake options that seem to be pretty plentiful these days.

Now I'm sure I'd think it was just as pretty as most of us would, but unless you can get it for a steal, you might just want to spend more time skiing this winter like you did last year.

My $.02.

Maristar210
09-18-2007, 12:29 PM
You should give me his number and go skiiing ;)

Seriously I would think $1500-2000 would be more than fair. Once re-done its a 5k boat minimum. look at DuckGuys on e-bay, its going for $8500 right now :rolleyes: :D

east tx skier
09-18-2007, 12:34 PM
To clarify, as I know a lot of the older boats had grey hulls, I think it's the grey and black that's going to be a tighter fit as far as finding that right buyer. You know what they say about "resale red." I think Duckguy's boat is a good example of that.

BrianM
09-18-2007, 12:35 PM
You ought to be able to get that carb rebuilt for around $225. After that, I think the other parts will run you maybe $300 or so. The rest is just lots and lots of labor on your part.

The things that stand out to me as red flags far as resale go are (1) the trailer, (2) the canvas interior (whether it's original or not), and (3) the grey hull. Someone looking for an 85 S&S seems to have quite a few choices these days. It seems they're always showing up on ebay. I think a grey hull would see some strong competition from the blue, red, brown metalflake options that seem to be pretty plentiful these days.

Now I'm sure I'd think it was just as pretty as most of us would, but unless you can get it for a steal, you might just want to spend more time skiing this winter like you did last year.

My $.02. The grey is not as flashy as the red or the flake thats for sure but I do think it is a nice looking boat. It is light grey with a dark grey stripe down the middle with black lettering. The trailer is definitely a downer. Didn't know that the canvas interior was undesirable.

As for skiing this winter that may be few and far between. Both of my regular ski partners are going to be out rehabing injuries.
You should give me his number and go skiiing ;)

Seriously I would think $1500-2000 would be more than fair. Once re-done its a 5k boat minimum. look at DuckGuys on e-bay, its going for $8500 right now :rolleyes: :D
The boat won't be as as nice as DuckGuys thats for sure but I think it should get $6k+ if it is running good and looking nice.

Maristar210
09-18-2007, 12:39 PM
The boat won't be as as nice as DuckGuys thats for sure but I think it should easily get $6-7k if it is running god and looking nice.


Doug makes a good point about the red but I still think it would be both an enjoyable and profitable winter project. I'm redoing a rotted pontoon boat this year. Wanna trade?

Steve

M-Funf
09-18-2007, 12:42 PM
I think it will pay off in the end as well...maybe not much, but what the heck. Winter projects keep me out of trouble...:rolleyes:

Go for it!

BrianM
09-18-2007, 12:42 PM
What other engine issue might I have from it sitting for so long?

Maristar210
09-18-2007, 12:49 PM
What other engine issue might I have from it sitting for so long?

Any number of seals would be my first thought...

JEREMY79
09-18-2007, 12:56 PM
Unless you get it for a steal there's not much money to be made compared with the time spent refurbing it.

If however you are doing it for a challenge, hobby or just for the love of it then its got to be worth a few thousand bucks. Offer them 3k and see where it goes from there

Hate to say this but, you are so wrong

6ballsisall
09-18-2007, 03:26 PM
Unless you get it for a steal there's not much money to be made compared with the time spent refurbing it.

If however you are doing it for a challenge, hobby or just for the love of it then its got to be worth a few thousand bucks. Offer them 3k and see where it goes from there

I'd beg to differ with you........those that know me know I'm right on this one........ ;)

BrianM, PM if you want.

east tx skier
09-18-2007, 04:04 PM
The grey is not as flashy as the red or the flake thats for sure but I do think it is a nice looking boat. It is light grey with a dark grey stripe down the middle with black lettering. The trailer is definitely a downer. Didn't know that the canvas interior was undesirable.

As for skiing this winter that may be few and far between. Both of my regular ski partners are going to be out rehabing injuries.

The boat won't be as as nice as DuckGuys thats for sure but I think it should get $6k+ if it is running good and looking nice.

I'm sure it's a nice looking boat. But I think they're all nice looking. I'm just saying that your buying pool might be a little more limited.

As for the canvas, I've never seen 'em before. So I don't know. Just didn't sound as comfortable as nice plush vinyl to me.

Good luck. And post some pictures when you get it!

BrianM
09-18-2007, 04:33 PM
As for the canvas, I've never seen 'em before. So I don't know. Just didn't sound as comfortable as nice plush vinyl to me.
!

I have seen and been in a couple with the canvas type material including this one. to twll you the truth as far as comfort goes this is actually better in my mind. Not sticky and sweaty on a hot day. Only issue is it is definitely harder to clean.

east tx skier
09-18-2007, 05:19 PM
Interesting. I'd like to see some pictures of it.

Slinkyredfoot
09-18-2007, 07:45 PM
Hate to say this but, you are so wrong


With all do respect to JayC, I agree with you Jeremy...Brian I too would love to see some pics of this boat....

If you love the boat, low ball the deal and see what happens...if you just like it, low ball it even further....;)

BrianM
09-18-2007, 09:38 PM
OK here are some quick pics I took tonight

BrianM
09-18-2007, 09:39 PM
Another.............

BrianM
09-18-2007, 09:40 PM
Interior................

BrianM
09-18-2007, 09:41 PM
Engine Cover

BrianM
09-18-2007, 09:42 PM
Dash..........

BrianM
09-18-2007, 09:42 PM
Rear.............

BrianM
09-18-2007, 09:44 PM
Engine.

the engine has 470 hours on it. Oil in it looked good but it hasn't run in 5+ years. Also found out that it is a Powerslot.

BriEOD
09-18-2007, 09:49 PM
I think there might be some money in it. However, I think you are reaching at $8500. I just sold my 87 which had way more options and was in awesome shape for not much more than that.

BriEOD
09-18-2007, 09:50 PM
Tell em' $3k and if you put another $1k and sell it for $5-6k it was worth it.

BrianM
09-18-2007, 09:58 PM
Tell em' $3k and if you put another $1k and sell it for $5-6k it was worth it.
That is kind of what I am thinking. I figure if it is running good and clean and shinny it will be a $5-6k boat all day long.

6ballsisall
09-18-2007, 10:08 PM
If you don't want it, call me, I'll buy it based on those pics.

east tx skier
09-19-2007, 12:15 AM
Looks good, Brian! That interior looks like vinyl to me.

stars79stripes
09-19-2007, 01:53 AM
Not an MC trailer, the rest is no concern.

You can make some money on it, but the purist is going to beat you up about the trailer.

JEREMY79
09-19-2007, 05:16 PM
If you dont buy it for 3k Call me and a I will. Just based on the pics. If you cant make money off of that boat, you are not doing something right.

6ballsisall
09-19-2007, 05:19 PM
If you dont buy it for 3k Call me and a I will. Just based on the pics. If you cant make money off of that boat, you are not doing something right.


Hey Jeremy get in line!! ;)

M-Funf
09-19-2007, 05:23 PM
If you dont buy it for 3k Call me and a I will. Just based on the pics. If you cant make money off of that boat, you are not doing something right.

I agree. That looks like an easy resto. If he'll take $3k, you'll make some money on a nice and clean S&S!!!

Willski
09-19-2007, 05:28 PM
i think you'd be good if you don't pay too much. I think that interior looks like my 84. I would call it vinyl, but it is not smooth.

Sodar
09-19-2007, 05:33 PM
Looks IDENTICAL to "Funks" boat, here on the board. My best friend used to own it and they bought it from the original owner with 1200 salt water hours on it for $8,000. They put on an additional 300 salt water hours and sold it to Funk for $6,000. If you cannot get $6000 out of this, I am with Jeremy here, saying you are doing something very wrong!

WilliM1940
09-19-2007, 09:36 PM
That's real nice boat. I can't believe the owners don't see any value in it. Clean it up and sell it on Ebay for 11,500 (but I would keep it). That thing will shine up like a new penny.

Cloaked
09-19-2007, 10:29 PM
Here's what I have found from past experience:
Top shape it will bring 8000 - 9500 in most general areas. Atlanta has a higher dollar value for some reason. Nashville will bring you a low dollar side of the coin. Cleaned and lake-ready, it should go for $8k - $9k or a bit more to an anxious buyer.

I've had 4 of them for resale and have found this to be the trend. The boat looks like it's in good shape.

If you get this for $3K and all else fails, you can part it out. I'll take first dibs in the windshield and speedos. :D

I have an 85 with the 351 at 677 hours. Runs like a well-oiled Singer sewing machine. .

I'd offer up $5500 and stop at $6500 if profit is what you are after.

A point of reference for reconditioning and tweaking a boat is this (copied from a sale ad here):

This 1979 boat went for $8000 just last week. I was wanting it at that price.
.
Structure: New stringers and floor installed with multi-layer hand laid fiberglass..New fuel tank mounts..Custom pylon.. Interior: 20 Oz. carpet (silver), custom driver and passenger seats with new backs, hand cut foam, marine grade vinyl, double machine stitched..Carbon fiber dash with all new Teleflex guages..Teleflex helm and steering wheel.. Mechanical: New steering cable and aft mount..Drive shaft removed and straightened..new stuffing box shaft packing..New strut bearings.. Engine components: Rebuilt Holley 4160 4 bbl carb..New raw water pump impeller..new belts, fuel lines and hoses..New starter..New spark plugs and wires..New fuel lines..New exhaust hoses, mufflers sealed, caulked and mounted..New gaskets for manifold exhaust risers..New ignition coil..Chrome Ford Racing valve covers..New throttle cable..New fuel strainer and filter..New blower and duct..New bilge pump..Installed center drain plug under pylon..New timing chain and gear set..
External: Cream hull has been buffed out and waxed..Normal hull wear but extreme good condition for a 1979..New bumper rub rail..I have all new Mastercraft stickers and stars but they are not installed..The boat still has the original blue metalflake and is sun-bleached..The shine is no longer there..I have been quoted 1,100 dollars for new metalflake..the color is up to the new owner..I have a Taylormade cover for the boat that is 2 years old..The fiberglass platform has minimal chips and has been covered with neoprene DeckDots nonskid.. Trailer: Completely sanded, primed and painted 2 years ago..new winch, jack and boat buddy..The fenders are cracked, but useable..Brand new Goodyear Marathon tires and chrome 15" 5 lug wheels..There are currently no lights or wiring
on the trailer, because I keep the boat on a covered lift.. Stereo: Clarion head unit vertically mounted on the passenger side of the dash..Remote control mounted in the dash (lower right guage hole)..Kenwood 240W amp and 6 Kenwood speakers..Stereo is loud.. This boat was completely redone (except the metalflake stripe) and completed in 2007..I am selling because I have too many boats..I am not a dealer..I am asking way less than what I have in the project..I am a Nuclear Electrician, so to put your mind at ease, no corners were cut in this project..The boat is very solid and puts out a very good slalom wake @ 36 MPH..Starts right up when cold (without advanced timing) and continues to run great when warm..Never overheats..Everything works..

85S&S_Keuka
09-20-2007, 10:27 AM
i think you'd be good if you don't pay too much. I think that interior looks like my 84. I would call it vinyl, but it is not smooth.

That is the original type interior that was used in the mid-80s (83-86??)- I just redid mine last year and I was told I got the last of the grey vinyl that M/C had left. IIRC it was General Tire's marine vinyl - some say it was the naugehide loo.

duckguy
09-20-2007, 10:45 AM
Mine just sold for 11,300-so yes they still bring coin in good shape.

BrianM
09-20-2007, 12:57 PM
Mine just sold for 11,300-so yes they still bring coin in good shape.

Wow! That is top dollar for sure but your boat was a super fine example.

mayo93prostar
09-20-2007, 01:42 PM
it looks good in the pics, some elbow grease to clean up, change fluids, and tuneup it should run good and solid. it is sad to hear such a fine machine is left sitting for 5 years. i gues there is a risk the engine is seized up if it has not turned over for this long. can you put a socket on the crank shaft and turn it over by hand. I would not try to start it until get the old oil out, probably change it again after first few hours... my thoughts.

east tx skier
09-20-2007, 03:56 PM
Wow! That is top dollar for sure but your boat was a super fine example.

Duck's also in the part of the country where people tend to pay quite a bit of cash for boats. But you sure can't argue with results!

Tom Wortham
09-20-2007, 04:45 PM
I have an 86 that I have had for 12 years (last body style of the S&S. They are a classic! You WON'T find a better pull or lack of wake behind another ski boat IMHO.
Some day I'll pic up a newer MC, but I'll keep 86 as well.
Since the new MC skins and new carpet...it's like NEW.
As you can see from this thread, sounds like getting new skins from MC is not an option. But, from your pics... you don't need them. Just a good scrubbing. I have the grey boat as well.... It's a little warm, but doesn't show as much as a white one would.
The grey and black is a nice color combo. Mine has the 3 shades of blue. They went a little wild with the decals on the last year of that model.
Good Luck. Great to see it could have a GREAT new home (for a while).
$3,000 is a VERY good buy for this boat.
Keep us posted.

alletric
09-20-2007, 05:51 PM
The first thing I noticed were the stains on the transom that are from someone trying to use a one step stain laquer combination on the teak. I had a boat that was like this. The previous owner was too lazy to even take the platform of beforing slopping it everywhere and murdering the teak. It came off but it had to be wet sanded way too close to burning through. Buffing would not make a dent in it. Not that this should keep you from buying the boat, It looks good, just a little work.

bxroads
09-20-2007, 11:57 PM
I've not even a bite on mine at $8500 and its in great shape. I'm even willing to work on the price but haven't even had a chance. Any advice? Must be the wrong time of year.

1983 S&S Album (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v139/bxroads/1983%20Mastercraft/)

BrianM
09-21-2007, 01:13 PM
I've not even a bite on mine at $8500 and its in great shape. I'm even willing to work on the price but haven't even had a chance. Any advice? Must be the wrong time of year.

1983 S&S Album (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v139/bxroads/1983%20Mastercraft/)

Advertise it to people in the Midwest. Find publications and websites for the local areas up there. Also E-bay. They seem to pay a much higher dollar for boats up there. If you are willing to meet half way or deliver up there it may be worth your while. That is what I would do with this.....

east tx skier
09-21-2007, 03:08 PM
Having just gone on a boat selling escapade, I can say that even though I didn't ultimately sell my boat on ebay, in the end, I had more views, more offers, more questions, and more interest there than anywhere else. In the end, it was this board that got my boat in front of Roddydog, who ultimately bought it. But I did have a good offer by the end of the ebay auction that I would've accepted had he not decided to buy the boat.

So, in short, ebay it. Sure, you have to be pretty careful and there's the chance you could be dealing with some unscrupulous types. But there's a chance of that anywhere.

Willski
09-21-2007, 05:19 PM
I bought my 84 back in 1997 for $7250. It was immaculate, but had 1250 hours on it. Still going strong. I think I have 1590 hours on it now.

JBaker
09-24-2007, 10:22 PM
I've not even a bite on mine at $8500 and its in great shape. I'm even willing to work on the price but haven't even had a chance. Any advice? Must be the wrong time of year.

1983 S&S Album (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v139/bxroads/1983%20Mastercraft/)

No advice, but that is a great looking boat.