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View Full Version : Water etiquette "how to be polite yet informative" question


swatguy
09-04-2007, 01:07 PM
Well Partly due to the fact that I have been spoiled for the past 8 yrs of usually having the morning water to myself I guess this is why it burns me so much. Down at the lake I ride on Lake Shelbyville in Illinois there is another boat that has shown up on a regular basis this year. The boat is a sweet looking 04-05ish tricked out 205V pretty much with every option. He even has speaker socks and rack socks. It's black with white top deck and white hull. Very classy on the water. Though never seen a wakeboard in the racks or anyone wakeboarding behind it.

Well they have been hitting the early morning sessions and basically just tearing up the water beyond belief. They drive in s bends while pulling skiers and whip huge powerturns every time a skier/rider falls. Never run a "line" They are everywhere. Leaves the butta I have grown to love looking like a washing machine sending rollers up and down the finger we ride on. They are def having fun towing their little kids, always taking pictures and cheering. However it's destroying the water. I would wait for them to stop, but the little ones that are waterskiing are marathon setters and they go for 30-45min a set. It's ridiculous. It's mainly an older gentleman with blonde hair driving so it looks like it may be grandpa's boat which the whole family enjoys which is awesome. But again the first time they showed up they parked their houseboat in the middle of the cove/finger so we knew it was trouble and then gave us dirty looks as we cruised by back and forth.

I would def love to inform him on th eP's and Q's of how to drive to create water for all of us to enjoy. Again I know they are just having fun, but at this point their fun is cutting others short so to speak.

I thought about cruising over and doing some small talk like hey welcome down here, been seeing you all alot where you from, love your MC color scheme. Yadda yadda. But can't seem to get the transition to "well you know those powerturns are killing the water and those non straight lines you all drive are driving us nuts" Here is my toned down version "I know you all love the calm water just as much as us or you wouldn't be out here this early. It's great to see another family enjoying the water as much as us especially in an MC. The way you go and pick up your fallen rider though sends rollers up and down this finger/cove. It also sends them right at the fallen rider. It actually takes longer to pick up your fallen rider by doing that. If you just pull back on the throttle and give the wheel a slight turn to the right after the rider falls the rollers will pass and you can idle back to your rider much safer as the fallen rider is in the driver's view at all times by turning to the right and also won't send huge rollers everywhere. Also if you all drive in a straight line the waves produced by the boat will go straight into shore and will disappear rather than bumping into other and creating a bigger one. I know this is a public lake , but just thought those few tips would make the water much more enjoyable for the both of us."

Feel free to fire away. Maybe I am wrong for even being pissed, but again been spoiled by usually being the only boat out there. Also just don't want to come off like a Jag. They are just trying to have as much fun as us. I guess we just take are riding a little more seriously.
Anbody know who this may be either? If so can you please give them a few tips. or direct them to this post.

Thanks.

Sorry just had to rant. Had a couple first timer down there annd they were getting killed by this guy's rollers.

TMCNo1
09-04-2007, 01:20 PM
Your faced with a simular situation as telling someone their brakes lights don't work. 90% of the time, they either say FU, KMA or give you the bird, so I just don't bother anymore.

Maristar210
09-04-2007, 01:22 PM
Also just don't want to come off like a Jag.


Your a SWAT guy. How could you possibly be any different? :firejump:

Seriously it sounds like you are going about this the right way. Most people are oblivious to others and what thier driving habits cause others to face. I have to remind my wife that if there is no traffic there is no reason to do anything but pull back to idle and turn around. I have waved over jet ski's and they respond to these types of persuasions by saying "oh I had no idea" Most people are cool its the drunk toobers who are a pain in the *** and don't care.

Steve

Naste Craft
09-04-2007, 01:24 PM
Someone WW (I think) posted a "how to drive a boarder/skier correctly" info guide. I would try and find it print a few and give him one or put one on his truck.

WAT8415
09-04-2007, 01:25 PM
I had a similar situation, well a few of them this summer with people driving through the slalom course. One guy would actually run the buoy's with his boat while pulling a skiier. This was done while we where switching skiers. I found out where he lived and went over and to talk about him. I either figured he didnt have a clue or it was intentional. Well he had no clue and was a pleasent experience being able to talk about driving etiquette. All 3 instances the outcome was a positive one, but I was nervous as you are when I had to do it the first time. Just be polite and up front and it should be a positive experience as well. Oh, this also reminds me of the time a pontoon boat was puling a kneeboarding doing the same darned thing, manuvering the boat through the course while pulling someone. I actually pulled my boat in front of him while he was pulling the kneeboarder and asked him politely to stop. He took in ok, but I could tell he didn't liked being told what to do. Good luck

swatguy
09-04-2007, 01:26 PM
HAHAHAHAAH FUNNY! If I were at work I would just charge right over, slap him in the head, and tell him to get a clue or I am gonna impound his boat for negligent driving.

JKTX21
09-04-2007, 01:27 PM
I would just approach and ask nicely, that's really all you can do.

I usually have to ask my newbie friends to not do powerturns in the river the first time they drive my boat... but I only ask once before their boat driving days are over. I'll get crucified by everyone else there!

Naste Craft
09-04-2007, 02:33 PM
http://www.wakeworld.com/articles/2003/perfectpull.asp

Naste Craft
09-04-2007, 02:35 PM
http://coloradoadventuresports.com/TipsandInstruction.htm

tommcat
09-04-2007, 02:42 PM
I've mentioned it a few times but there are so many people that do dumb things to wreck the water or endanger my riders i cant keep up. i would spend the whole day b!tching at people instead of boarding.
as often as it happens i still cant believe what people will do in a boat. i watched a guy wrap his toober around another boat this weekend. and the boat was just sitting still

H20ski Dude
09-04-2007, 03:09 PM
I think we've all had this happen at least once. I deal with it too. I'm out early to ski before all the boats tear up the water and they're tubing at 830am... its their lake too, but come on..

There is also little opportunity to actually go over because they're doing their thing right... when I see that crap behind a new inboard I get more frustrated because it took me forever just to get enough money together to get a 20 year old ski boat that cost 7k.. they spent 70 and use it to tube...

I like your approach and I hope you get the chance to speak to them. maybe invite them on board to watch some real skiing or boarding.

Prostar Rich
09-04-2007, 03:47 PM
Have seen this all too many times on my lake as well. Usually it's the weekend warriors who take their kids tubing through the primo ski areas. This is why I choose to ski early AM to avoid these weekend warriors.

If I were you I would bring up your concern in a polite manner and see what kind of response you get. It very well could be a matter of just not knowing.

Prostar Rich

swatguy
09-04-2007, 04:09 PM
Thanks you all so far. Just was on the fence about going over and strikin up the conversation. If it was my place to say something.

See the problem I have is it is in the early am when only the "hardcore" I thought get up for butter. Guess that's what strikes me the most. :) OH well. We will see what happens in a week or 2.... will keep you updated on how it goes.

BIGBADBLUE
09-04-2007, 04:22 PM
Let us know how it goes. I had a conversation with a tuber this weekend going down our narrow cove ... doing s-turns the entire length in a 25' Cobalt. OUCH. It went great. He did not know what he was doing ans we talked about 30 minutes. We helped his kid to learn to ski and then he went out to the more open water. The key is to be nice and not sound arrogent.

Have i told anyone on this thread I am going into depression because of the Appy State loss?

Thrall
09-04-2007, 07:55 PM
Swatguy, you got a good conversation starter already. He's got a MC and you got a MC.
Go over when they're about doen for the morning, compliment him on his fancy boat, ask for a pull behind it. Then you can strike up the no powerturns or zigzagging. Just tell the guy how you prefer to be towed and that it actually helps gain ability, doesn't tire you out catching rollers while laying in the water, etc. Same stuff you said above.
You seem to know that they're not drunk Wallys out there, so your advice should be well received.

sand2snow22
09-04-2007, 08:24 PM
Swat, most people don't have a clue. Try to educate, if they aren't receptive, it's their own fault. I see this a lot at our lake. We haven't power turned in many, many years, but everyone in our bay still does? Simply, they don't have a clue.

This reminds me, two years ago at my bachelor party at the lake. A neighbor about 4 houses down pulling his daughters on a tube decided to buzz the back of our boat while my brother was surfing. Yes, surfing, he was really close. We went over to his dock to confront him about it and we found out he was drunk as a skunk. Of course we couldn't talk any sense into him.

We parked our boat and he decided to walk down the beach to our cabin and continue the conversation. He had the gall to walk up onto our deck. To his surprise, he found 21 dudes waiting there for him. You should have seen the look on his face when he saw us all!! Priceless.....He thought we were "campers" and spending too much time in his bay? We still couldn't talk any sense into him and for his sake I strongly encouraged him to get off our deck before he got hurt.

Moral of the story, make sure they aren't piss drunk.......And if you don't believe in carma, this year a tree fell down on his boat!!

sand2snow22
09-04-2007, 08:29 PM
I thought I had seen it all until this year. We were trying to ski at the only nice spot on the lake. A moomba outback drops a tube full of kids in the water and continued to drive circles around them to making waves :mad: All they had to do was drive anywhere else on the lake and drop the tube in the water and there would have been plenty of waves!!

tex
09-04-2007, 08:39 PM
Swat, most people don't have a clue. Try to educate, if they aren't receptive, it's their own fault. I see this a lot at our lake. We haven't power turned in many, many years, but everyone in our bay still does? Simply, they don't have a clue.

This reminds me, two years ago at my bachelor party at the lake. A neighbor about 4 houses down pulling his daughters on a tube decided to buzz the back of our boat while my brother was surfing. Yes, surfing, he was really close. We went over to his dock to confront him about it and we found out he was drunk as a skunk. Of course we couldn't talk any sense into him.

We parked our boat and he decided to walk down the beach to our cabin and continue the conversation. He had the gall to walk up onto our deck. To his surprise, he found 21 dudes waiting there for him. You should have seen the look on his face when he saw us all!! Priceless.....He thought we were "campers" and spending too much time in his bay? We still couldn't talk any sense into him and for his sake I strongly encouraged him to get off our deck before he got hurt.

Moral of the story, make sure they aren't piss drunk.......And if you don't believe in carma, this year a tree fell down on his boat!!
That reminds me of the dude snow skiing who dusted my sister and myself as we were resting snowboarding. I dropped an F bomb on him and he back at me. He failed to realize that I had already unclipped my bindings and freaked when I stood up and started walking towards him. Him and his buddies skiied off as fast as they could-Punk!

mitch
09-04-2007, 08:41 PM
Hate to say it, but most people in boats are idiots. I see it all the time on our lake, and honestly most of the time people just don't know any better. I think you'll need to get up earlier to get the butta. Good luck!

sand2snow22
09-04-2007, 09:11 PM
That reminds me of the dude snow skiing who dusted my sister and myself as we were resting snowboarding. I dropped an F bomb on him and he back at me. He failed to realize that I had already unclipped my bindings and freaked when I stood up and started walking towards him. Him and his buddies skiied off as fast as they could-Punk!

Dang two plankers!! :D

wakolman
09-04-2007, 09:56 PM
I would say something, keeping it polite, and see what happens. Worse case is that he doesn't change habits and you at least said your piece. Most likely though, he will understand and be aware, or maybe even become a friend and you can teach him and his family how "hard core" skiers do it.

I really didn't have any knowledge of driving a ski boat before owning one and being on this site. I have quickly learned, and I think he would too just by having a few pointers. Or offer to take him out with you some morning and talk him through what the driver of the boat does and why.

BTW Thanks to the crew on Okauchee this weekend for inviting me over to their "community ski program". It is just a line for boats taking turns with their skier ready to go up and down the shore of the bay. Everyone gets to enjoy the flat water and show off their stuff. My wife drove and she was too embarassed to stick around after the pull, but we will be back. I told her she did great, it was just the pontooner in front of her that caused the problem.

mccobmd
09-04-2007, 10:42 PM
I had the same thing this weekend. The problem with the tubes is they don't hold a line. I can get a rider a decent ride if they just hold a line. I might go over and say "Hey, we can stay out of your way if you stay in line." As for the power turn I had my 14 year old on a slalom who dropped and a tuber going the opposite direction did a 180 and started toward her. I whipped around and needless to say he would have hit me before my daughter. We all have to face the fact that cheap boats and tubes have made the number of people on the water that only care about themselves the majority.

michael freeman
09-05-2007, 07:08 AM
Go over and talk, what do you have to lose. Most of the time people just don't know and if no one tells them they will never know

Vegas X-Star
09-06-2007, 07:30 PM
Swatguy - I grew up on that lake...I am from a small town just south of there, St. Elmo. I run into that every weekend at my current lake, Lake Mead in Nevada. I run over and give a tutorial all the time. I say...if they are that stupid, why be nice to them. I usually try to be civil but usually end up telling them to get out of my cove before I board their vessel. I can understand stupid people driving jet-ski's but this guy owns a ski boat, he should know better. I would see what tow vehicle he is driving and print off some "how-to" literature for him and leave it on his windshield....that should get the point across.

swatguy
09-07-2007, 12:32 AM
Def know the town Vegas eh? WAY DIFFERENT :)

WESSTAR
09-07-2007, 08:51 PM
I like that idea of printing of some etiquette rules and leaving it on their windsheilds. Might have to try that.

swatguy
09-24-2007, 12:32 AM
So here's the update. Finally got a chance to track them down. Yet again butter sessions DESTROYED BY WALLY"S WITH A 50K boat.

Well I went over to chat with them and offer some advice. Were every approachable and nice. No doubt. But just to give a little more leadway into the story. It's either nephews or grandsons boat which he purchased. Again fully decked out 205V. Grandpa who is 68 is in charge of driving it seems. Well they leave the speaker socks/covers on while riding and cranking the tunes. UNREAL! Wears neon green boardshorts and fluorescent pink hat. NOBODY BOARDS WE FOUND OUT AT ALL! but has a factory tower installed on it with 4 racks and has 205V.

So back on track...we idle over hey Hi you all doing we are BLAH blah bblah Find out that this is their first comp boat, but Grandpa is a pro diver as he's been doing it for 40yrs he made sure to tell us. YEAH OK!!!!! WHATEVER! Have another beer there wally. after 10-min of getting info and swapping stories we go "well we were just wondering if you guys were familiar with how to drive to ensure that we all enjoy nice smooth water?" Answer of course that's why we follow the curves of the shoreline. Seriously! They could not drive straight for more than 20ft. (They drive in a huge circle rather than straight lines killing the water with powerturns for downed riders) Mind you its 7pm and no wind :) I mean 1mph tops. He then says I hate those fisherman and tubers with a passion. Always tearing up our water. Can't keep it calm. Sooooooooo we obviously know this is going nowhere which is a shame because they (the grandkids/kids) are pretty decent skiers and have all the top notch/ right gear from what we have seen. Just kills the &*() out of me that we have lost our butta spot that we have had for the past 7yrs. Never new how much damage 1 wally boat guy could do. Especially one that spent 40-50k on a comp boat. UNREAL!

To their defense the kids ( i use the term loosely as they were younger than him, but around my age of 28) who actually purchased the boat seemd like they were def trying to progress and were pretty into the sport which was awesome. They also play some good music. Would be curious to see hwta seakers are actually under the socks because I can hear them pretty clear with the socks on and am in the market. (On a side note I knew I was doomed as soon as I pulled up and saw the speaker socks still on and the neon:D)
So plan B is now in motion of acquiring print outs of how to drive and NOT HOW TO DRIVE. and see if that works. Then we will have to hunt for a new spot Anbody have any good links with diagrams of what TO DO and What NOT TO DO IN BOLD!.

Sorry for the rant again guys. Just have to vent. The family is from Decatur IL bought the boat this February from OH Anybody sell a mint, decked out, black 205V to a guy in IL this winter. I"d love his e-mail or contact info :)

jrhollow
09-24-2007, 12:43 AM
Dude you're a cop, just get his license plate number and look him up.

swatguy
09-24-2007, 12:46 AM
JR already done. Was gonna mail him the letters :)

sand2snow22
09-24-2007, 01:31 AM
I've seen a good diagram put out by Mastercraft on how to drive, I think it was on Wakeworld, but I can't seem to find it. Anyone know what I'm talking about? Send a letter to everyone in my bay, too:


Courtesy On the Water
Proper courtesy on the water is often overlooked. Not only will this help everyone maintain the best and safest water conditions possible, it will help you get along with, and meet other boaters.
· Give fishermen space. Beware of sending your boat rollers into their often, smaller boats.
· If you are “cruising” or just heading to your favorite spot to fish or hang out, please pay attention to where your boat rollers end up. Believe it or not, slower speeds create bigger rollers.
· Tow skiers/riders back and forth in similar patterns. Drive in straight, predictable lines. Predicable boat drivers create a safer experience for everyone on the water.
· NEVER do ‘power turns’ when your skier falls. When your skier falls, (assuming there is not an immediate danger to them), slow your boat to an idle and stop. Wait 2-3 seconds for your boat rollers to clear behind you, then make your turn as slowly as possible, and then return to pick up your rider. (A slow turn is most important.) This will eliminate unnecessary rollers sent by you down your skier’s line of travel and in all directions throughout the lake. This practice will also help you to save on fuel, reduce the chance of you taking water over your bow, and will eliminate the ‘return to skier bounce’ over your own rollers as you return to pickup your skier. (And, it gives your skier a few extra seconds to rest.) Believe it or not, one boat can ruin the conditions for everyone else on the entire lake so this is the number one rule for boating courtesy!
· NEVER pull a skier up in front of another boat, or cut in front of another boat that is towing a skier. Allow at least 100 yards between boats if you pull up a skier/rider in front of someone along the same line of travel, or wait for them to pass. If they are closer than 100 yards, wait, and let them to pass. (As they will do the same for you, if your skier/rider falls.)
· Skiers travel faster than wakeboarders so allow for that when starting your run behind someone. The skier/rider in front of you has the right of way, period. Do not come up alongside or overtake another boat that is towing a skier/rider; this really messes up the water for that skier and your own skier/rider. Pass/overtake only if/when their skier/rider falls, and use the “Delta Wave” to let them know you see their rider and their rope. Following too closely is dangerous, and also provides a turbulent tow for your skier/rider. Allow some distance for a smoother tow.
· Use skier hand signals and teach your skier’s to wave that they are “OK” after every fall.
· If you see a good (or professional) wakeboarder on the lake, it is permissible to follow them at a safe distance directly behind, or slightly parallel to their boat, to watch them ride (or hang out in the middle to watch), but in doing so, be prepared to stop immediately if they fall so you don’t mess up their water with your own boat rollers. Allow room at each end for them to turn around.
· NEVER tow a tube anywhere near other boats towing skier’s or rider’s of any kind. This is dangerous and it messes up the water all the way down the lake, for everyone, in every direction. Only pull a tube in open water spaces, far away from other boats, obstacles, and those towing skiers/riders. When towing a tube, do not pull S, C, or O turns (donuts) in narrow, confined areas.

03 35th Anniversary
09-24-2007, 04:35 AM
Ahhhhhhhhh........... The never ending wally probelm.......

SoCalBrew
09-24-2007, 05:44 AM
(On a side note I knew I was doomed as soon as I pulled up and saw the speaker socks still on...

Not wanting to take this thread on a tangent, but...

Might I ask what the issue with leaving the speaker sox on is?

Audibly, there is not an appreciable enough of a difference for it to be an issue (I do sound for a living... so this issue is important to me). And, they protect and possibly prolong the life of the speaker housings... again, I see that as a plus. Lastly, in my case, they match the color scheme of the boat, so they are aesthetically pleasing.

Curious what the issue is?

BTW, I feel your pain... there is no such thing as etiquette on Castaic lake down here in SoCal... you pretty much have to get on as early as possible (and get out of the way of the fisherman - who keep the lake open with their daily fees) OR buy your way on to the private part of the lake, that THEN has a one ride at a time rule.

If you time it right, you can get in front of the guy, and be the one that dictates the lake a little more... but, that can be more trouble then it's worth.

Have you used the "Can we alternate passes so that we BOTH can get the smoothest water" card? If he is made to feel that he is getting something out of the deal, he is more likely to be coerced. Works for me most of the time... I usually end up taking pics of the other guys from my boat during their passes, and then e-mail them to em... so next time they come out, the gig (and the goodwill) is not forgotten.

Tom

Jorski
09-24-2007, 11:51 AM
If the kids want to improve, invite them to ski with you in the morning a couple of times. This way they will become addicted to "butter" and straight lines.

It won't take long before THEY give Grandpa the business about his driving. It will work much better than you trying to educate the old guy.

All of us skiers have experienced this, it sucks. You know, I never did get my dad to run a straight line with even speed...finally I just stopped letting him pull me.

Good Luck !