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View Full Version : Looking at a new Truck is a Chevy 2500HD diesel really needed


TheOneandOnly
09-02-2007, 05:24 PM
We are looking to buy a new truck to pull the new upcoming boat (2008 x2). Here are the two were currently looking at:
1.) Chevy 1500z71 4x4
2.) Chevy 2500HD 4x4 Diesel

We are going to be towing it (boat) around 3 times a week probably 15 to 20 minutes each way to different lakes. Will be using it as a daily vehicle 25miles one way to work. Will not be using it really for anything else tow wise that will be any heavier. My question is this is the 2500HD overkill? What would you guys do? I realize its night and day between the two but just curious since this will be our first truck. Thanks

TX.X-30 fan
09-02-2007, 05:51 PM
What boat will you be pulling? Love my 2500 duramax, I can't believe I'm saying this but It sounds like unless its an X80 or X45 the half ton would do fine for such short tows. The 2500 Duramax is a towing beast with the Allison transmission and will accelerate up steep grades with 6,000 lbs in tow with no problem. I use mine for work so its easy for me to justify the extra expense for the truck.

The 1500 will be much more like a "car" ride and may fit your family needs better.

Good luck, and disregard anything the Ford guy's say. :D

123src
09-02-2007, 06:03 PM
I love my 2500 duramax. It may be overkill, but if you ever need it, you'll have it. Case in point, When we bought ours, we went for the Duramax "just in case". We used to have a Chevy 1500, but when getting loads of rock, or other various tasks, the thing was popping a wheelie and bogged down(not that much, but it was noticable). Now with the 2500 and the duramax, I am never "bogged" down. Oh yeah, and I get a lot better mileage than I got with the gas 1/2 ton. just my 2 cents...

TX.X-30 fan
09-02-2007, 06:07 PM
I love my 2500 duramax. It may be overkill, but if you ever need it, you'll have it. Case in point, When we bought ours, we went for the Duramax "just in case". We used to have a Chevy 1500, but when getting loads of rock, or other various tasks, the thing was popping a wheelie and bogged down(not that much, but it was noticable). Now with the 2500 and the duramax, I am never "bogged" down. Oh yeah, and I get a lot better mileage than I got with the gas 1/2 ton. just my 2 cents...




And a damn good looking set-up there to boot. ;)

TheOneandOnly
09-02-2007, 06:12 PM
123src What were you seeing for gas mileage with your 1500 vs 2500? I have a friend telling me to get the desiel, do they really last longer than gas engines?
TX- I will be pulling a 2008 X2 total weight of boat and trailer 4500# not including gas, etc
Thanks

Cloaked
09-02-2007, 07:18 PM
123src What were you seeing for gas mileage with your 1500 vs 2500? I have a friend telling me to get the desiel, do they really last longer than gas engines?
TX- I will be pulling a 2008 X2 total weight of boat and trailer 4500# not including gas, etc
ThanksDon't be fooled by the light duty diesels. I am on my third Duramax. Good mileage is a myth. What engine you get under the hood is another issue of considerations.

I presume you'll be lookiing at a 07 or 08 model. The New body 07s have the LMM engine. It's loaded with emmission controls and has some issues of it's own, but no serious showstoppers, other than limits on turning one up. The 07 classic body style engines have the LBZ engine, the best of all of the Duramax engines. As for any model with a LB7 engine, walk away. Not to insult anyone's LB7, but they have inherent problems that have arisen or awaiting to happen.

I just bought a 07 with the LBZ. It works well with the 365 HP and torque, but do not be fooled with the diesle misconceptions. If you want a bulletproof diesel, you'll need to go to the big OTR trucks.

Find a forum and read up. You can start here if you like. If it's not here, you don't need to know.
http://www.thedieselpageforums.com/tdpforum/

As for your question with the 4500 lbs. I'd prefer a 2500 for the sake of having all you'll need for accommodations, up to a certain point. The towing and transmission along with braking capacity on the 2500 is important to me. A boat can and will push a 1500. Do not expect miracles from any of the light duty pickup diesels. They all are limited in one way or another. I have worked a Duramax to it's capacity wanting more. Best mileage you'll get is 14 - 15 at best (empty). Towing you'll get 10 - 12 at best.

Mods are OK and folks swear by them. I'd not touch one until out of warranty, then you'll still see error codes on one thing or another.

I drive mine like I stole it so my mileage is a bit less. My 07 is showing 13.9 mpg avg on the information center.

As for longevity, they will go for a while, but that too is engine type dependant. And I'll say one more thing then hush my mouth. The longevity and service of these Duramaxs depend on strict maintenance and service. It gets to be expensive too. I mean every single thing should be serviced on the recommended schedule.

Anyhooooo.. read up on the diesel page if you please and decide for yErself.

Point of your topic, I vote 2500. You can find one now at or around 39 - 43k in a crew cab. That is a must for me. Don't sweat the Bose stereo. It's crapola. I'd not order one with it but put an entire new aftermarket in mine. That too is another deal that is not academic as once was, due to the computer setup.

Engines
Years 01 - 04 - LB7 300 HP / 525 ft-lbs torque
04.5 - 05 - LLY 310 / 610
06 - 07 classic - LBZ 360 - 650
07.5 - 08 - LMM 365 - 650

Best one yet is the LBZ.

2009 will host a 4.5L diesel for the half tons. Give that two additional production years to iron out the bugs.

TheOneandOnly
09-02-2007, 07:28 PM
We were looking to only spend around 20-25k so that is of course going to put us in the used trucks.

What years are the best, from problems if applicable?

Sport- I like it when ppl run their mouths more info is always appreciated! :)

Cloaked
09-02-2007, 07:33 PM
We were looking to only spend around 20-25k so that is of course going to put us in the used trucks.

What years are the best, from problems if applicable?

Sport- I like it when ppl run their mouths more info is always appreciated! :)You have hit paydirt with my big ol' mouth. :D

Like I said above, leave the LB7s alone. You'll have fuel injector problems sooner than later, I don't care what any expert or salesman tells you. Been there three times on one truck and had the same LB7 engine in the first two Duramaxs...

I traded a 01 at 42K miles, and a 02 at 98k miles just to rid myself of headaches.

The LLY is basically the LB7 with much better fuel injectors and rail system.

The LBZ is very sweet.

The LLM is still too new for me to know other than reading.

$25k should get you a 05 with an LLY engine, if you are patient and diligent on the deal. A 02 - 03 trades out for about 16 - 18k and goes to market for about 22k, so like I said, if you can find a 04 or 05 it will have the LLY diesel, you'll do well. You'll get your money out of a good used machine. They'll see 200K miles with service before any real need for attention other than batteries. For that just go Optima batteries. Plural as in, two for the diesel engine. Nothing about these things is cheap :D . It's another hole in the water hobby... :D

If at all possible, obtain service records, or find a GM / Chevy service guy to run the VIN through the computer. They can pull any service records.

Also check the gear. I do not recommend the 4.10:1 gear. Look for a 3.73:1 in my opinion.

123src
09-02-2007, 08:04 PM
123src What were you seeing for gas mileage with your 1500 vs 2500? I have a friend telling me to get the desiel, do they really last longer than gas engines?
TX- I will be pulling a 2008 X2 total weight of boat and trailer 4500# not including gas, etc
Thanks

WOW!!! I am afraid to answer after reading Sporty's post. I went from an early 90's 1500 gas getting about 10 mpg on a good day. In my 2005 2500, I am getting, according to the computer, 15-16 mpg around town, driving without consideration for mileage. On the freeway, closer to 19mpg (55mph, no boat) That being said, the computer is off due to the fact I have 36" tires on my truck. I guess the computer cannot accout for tires this large. It seems the actual MPG would be higher if the computer could account for correct tire size. (i could be wrong) I must also say that I have added "the usual" diesel mods. The Edge computer controller system and cat back exhaust, not to mention all the stereo and ride mods (lift, shocks, air bags, sway bar) I am not AT ALL a very knowledgable person on GM motors, performance, Mods, MPG, or anything else technical. I can only speak about what I experience. I am much happier with the power of the Duramax. I have a Camper and boat that I tow over Mt. Hood with the Cruise control set at 55. I am not sure which L?? I have, but I have not had any issues with the truck to this point. It seems from Sporty's post that I have the LLY... I guess that is OK.
As for how long they last, I can not help. I have heard that they last longer also. I can tell you that they cost a heck of a lot more than gas motors.

The argument at times is that the cost of buying the Diesel will pay for itself over time due to the fact they last longer and get better mileage than gas. Don't fall for this one. In my experience, Diesel has been much more expensive than gasoline at the pumps. If you go for the diesel, get it for the POWER. It is there!

Here is a pic of the camper and boat ( a lot of weight).... Remember... 55 on the cruise control over the mountain.... I love it!

123src
09-02-2007, 08:07 PM
You have hit paydirt with my big ol' mouth. :D

Like I said above, leave the LB7s alone. You'll have fuel injector problems sooner than later, I don't care what any expert or salesman tells you. Been there three times on one truck and had the same LB7 engine in the first two Duramaxs...

I traded a 01 at 42K miles, and a 02 at 98k miles just to rid myself of headaches.

The LLY is basically the LB7 with much better fuel injectors and rail system.

The LBZ is very sweet.

The LLM is still too new for me to know other than reading.

$25k should get you a 05 with an LLY engine, if you are patient and diligent on the deal. A 02 - 03 trades out for about 16 - 18k and goes to market for about 22k, so like I said, if you can find a 04 or 05 it will have the LLY diesel, you'll do well. You'll get your money out of a good used machine. They'll see 200K miles with service before any real need for attention other than batteries. For that just go Optima batteries. Plural as in, two for the diesel engine. Nothing about these things is cheap :D . It's another hole in the water hobby... :D

If at all possible, obtain service records, or find a GM / Chevy service guy to run the VIN through the computer. They can pull any service records.

Also check the gear. I do not recommend the 4.10:1 gear. Look for a 3.73:1 in my opinion.

Slight threadjack, but, Sporty, How often should I be replacing the fuel filter? Dealer told me every 10,000 miles.

Cloaked
09-02-2007, 08:26 PM
Slight threadjack, but, Sporty, How often should I be replacing the fuel filter? Dealer told me every 10,000 miles.Service manual recommends every 15,000. I try to change mine every 10k. However, I also have put an additional in-line filtering system on mine.

Try and use a filter of about 5 micron. It sounds overbearing but that is the ticket for clean fuel being placed in the pressurized system.

I am no expert by any means and everyone will have different opinions and results.

I just try and share a bit of basic knowledge for those looking to get into a diesel machine without some often masked or undiscussed issues until it is too late.

You have a nice setup indeed. I cannot take away from modifications at all. I just prefer to stay stock. There is a nice tuned ECM out there for these machines that does not rely on additional equipment such as Edge, Bulleydog, or Juice. Thus no real updates or firmware problems. It's about $700 without a core but well worth it with very comparable results (if not better mileage) than the add-ons of common use. Look over on the Diesel Page. It allows the ECM tune to be installed, then before service, just reload the stock ECM. Done deal. No anything at all to remove before warranty service.


The information I gave here on the engine types is accurate to date. As well the 8th digit (from left) of the VIN will tell one what engine type is in the truck.

123src
09-02-2007, 08:42 PM
As well the 8th digit (from left) of the VIN will tell one what engine type is in the truck.

Continued slight threadjack...

Thanks for all the info. Much appreciated. You wouldn't happen to have the key for that 8th digit, would you? (which letter or number stands for which engine)

Cloaked
09-02-2007, 09:05 PM
Continued slight threadjack...

Thanks for all the info. Much appreciated. You wouldn't happen to have the key for that 8th digit, would you? (which letter or number stands for which engine)
The 2001-2004.5 model year Duramax 6600 is an LB7, and the vehicle will have a number 1 (one) as the eighth digit of the VIN. Injectors and injector fuel return lines are beneath the valve covers.

The 2004.5- 2006.5 model year Duramax 6600 is an LLY, and the vehicle will have a number 2 (number two) as the eighth digit of the VIN. Injectors and injector fuel return lines are outside the valve covers.

The 2006.5-2007 model year Duramax 6600 is an LBZ, and the vehicle will have a letter D as the eighth digit of the VIN. The LBZ virtually identical to the earlier LLY, and in-fact, the latest LLY engines are said to be the same as the LBZ, except for power/torque rating, ECM & programming and emissions certification.

The 2007.5 model year Duramax 6600 is an LMM, and the vehicle will have a number 6 (six) as the eighth digit of the VIN. This engine runs with the newest emissions system, which includes a new Diesel Oxidation Catalyst and Diesel Particulate Filter, and requires ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) fuel.

123src
09-02-2007, 09:50 PM
The 2001-2004.5 model year Duramax 6600 is an LB7, and the vehicle will have a number 1 (one) as the eighth digit of the VIN. Injectors and injector fuel return lines are beneath the valve covers.

The 2004.5- 2006.5 model year Duramax 6600 is an LLY, and the vehicle will have a number 2 (number two) as the eighth digit of the VIN. Injectors and injector fuel return lines are outside the valve covers.

The 2006.5-2007 model year Duramax 6600 is an LBZ, and the vehicle will have a letter D as the eighth digit of the VIN. The LBZ virtually identical to the earlier LLY, and in-fact, the latest LLY engines are said to be the same as the LBZ, except for power/torque rating, ECM & programming and emissions certification.

The 2007.5 model year Duramax 6600 is an LMM, and the vehicle will have a number 6 (six) as the eighth digit of the VIN. This engine runs with the newest emissions system, which includes a new Diesel Oxidation Catalyst and Diesel Particulate Filter, and requires ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) fuel.

Thanks Sporty

wakolman
09-02-2007, 09:54 PM
I too have the 2006 LLY Duramax crew cab 4x4. It is a dream to tow with. I bought it to pull my Bobcat and misc. attachments on a big trailer. Bobcat and trailer are gone but I can't bring myself to get rid of the truck. I see used 06's selling for over 30k (and I paid mid 30's new), so I think if you buy it right you will be okay. The 2500 does ride rougher than a half ton, and the power curve is different than a gas engine. Not the quickness of a gas engine, but you will be able to accelerate when you want no matter what speed you are at, and you won't feel like you are killing the motor.

We also have a 4Runner and use that for the short trips to the lakes that are ~5 min. away. When we go an hour or more away, it is always the Duramax. It feels safer than the 4Runner at highway speeds, and doesn't suffer on fuel economy like gas engines do when working harder. I constantly get 17-18 mpg in the diesel with mixed city/highway driving (Have been as low as 14 and as high as 19+). That is doing the math, not reading the computer, which I have found to be inaccurate (it reads +1 on the 4Runner).

I love that whistle!

Roonie's
09-02-2007, 10:27 PM
The diesel is awesome and a great tow rig. However, I have the 07 X2 and just finished towing it 3800 miles with a 1500 Suburban with towing package. No problems and didn't really need more except for the hills and three major passes. I had to go about 50 mph over the passes but it was still faster then the semi's. I could have used a bigger rig but for your purposes a diesel 2500 is a bit overkill if only local commuting with it.

TheOneandOnly
09-02-2007, 11:14 PM
Roonie what were you getting gas mpg?

Roonie's
09-03-2007, 10:43 AM
Tower up around 9-10 mpg. Tower down around 12-13 mpg. Those numbers changed when we had a head wind coming at us.

Ric
09-03-2007, 11:27 AM
welcome back sporty!!!!

as for you mr threadstarter...... 1500HD. It fits your usage.....




I try and I try :noface:

bigmac
09-03-2007, 12:02 PM
OK...since Ric has posted, I'll throw in my usual :twocents: ...

I tow my boat (about 4800 lbs GVW I suspect) and 4 place snowmobile trailer (GVW about the same) with my plain ol' 2006 1500 Sierra Z71 with 3.42 rear end. My wife pulls her slant-load horse trailer (about 7000 GVW) all over the upper midwest with the same truck. Complete, total, safe, absolutely adequate performance IMHO and spending more for a bigger truck is a complete waste of money. In the meantime, I also use it as a daily driver too and get about 18-20 mpg using E10, about 14-16 using E85. Pulling the MasterCraft gets me about 15-16 mpg, pulling the horse trailer gets about 13-15.

I will say that I do plan on looking at that 1500 HD as my next vehicle, but only because of the horse trailer, which could hit 7500 lbs GVW if my wife completes the deal on the rather larger dressage horse she's currently looking at. If it were just for the MasterCraft and the snowmobile trailer, I wouldn't even even consider spending the extra money.

TheOneandOnly
09-03-2007, 12:15 PM
Whats the difference between the 1500HD and 1500? I understand the HD=heavy duty but what is different?

bigmac
09-03-2007, 12:25 PM
Whats the difference between the 1500HD and 1500? I understand the HD=heavy duty but what is different?

http://www.gmc.com/sierra/1500HD/specsOverview.jsp

IIUC, engine is the 6.0 liter and transmission is the heavy duty version of the 4-speed. Same 1/2-ton frame, but axles have increased capacity. HD version is only available in Crew Cab.

I had that same engine-transmission-axle-frame setup in my 2003 Denali pickup. Gas mileage sucked, and the only thing I miss about its towing capability is the 4-wheel steering.

Ric
09-04-2007, 09:55 AM
blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

Ric
09-04-2007, 09:56 AM
Do not listen to big mac, his truck is underpowered and he won't admit it.8p

8p the 1500HD is a crew cab with a 6.0 gas motor, and it's too bad I cannot quote you the GVWR, but I betcha there is a yooper here that could do it.

It's basically the same rating as the old 2500(non HD)

Big Mac is referring to my beef with GM for offering ONLY 3.42 & 4.10 ratios with the smaller motors over the last few years... I drove the z71 at the dealer and said N-O. I met many afterward (who do tow) who were quite unhappy with the 5.3L & 3.42 combination.

I can say you will not be unhappy with the 6.0L / 3.73 combo. Take 5 of your friends to the lake with you in your truck, haul your prostar and some camping gear too if you like, this truck won't hiccup.

Maristar210
09-04-2007, 10:03 AM
My next truck will be a GMC 2500 Single Cab. My wife has a Yukon so the Ext cab for me is a waste of money. I like the feeling of security with the heavier truck. The 1500 is just too soft, at least for me. A 2500 sinlge will be cheaper than the 1500 Ext cab I currently have and the mileage will only go down slightly.

BigMac and I have almost the same truck. He likes his and I'll never own another 3:42 rear end truck again, not a chance :mad:

Of course, Bigmac is certainly more patient than I am :D

When I go out to pass I want to pass not wait and then pass.....

H2OArky
09-04-2007, 10:22 AM
As a licensed car dealer and the owner of X2 which is being pulled by an 07 (Classic Style) 25OO GMC HD Diesel Crew Cab, I would suggest you consider a couple other factors which might help in your decision:

1) Tax Deduction - Depending upon which type of work you are in, I'm certain a 2500HD truck meets the IRS Commercial Vehicle requirements and will qualify for a first year tax deduction of up to $25,000 (Check with your accountant to verify you qualify for tax year 07).

2) The Duramaxx Diesel P/U maintains an excellent resell value and high demand due to their durability, typcially resulting in a quick sell in your local paper - saving more dollars on the backside of this transaction. Note: Solid white units will always be the most popular on the used/resell market.

Ric
09-04-2007, 10:26 AM
oh, one more thing!!!!!!!! I will drag BriEOD's F'd up and down the street against it's will:cool:


Do not listen to big mac, his truck is underpowered and he won't admit it.8p

8p the 1500HD is a crew cab with a 6.0 gas motor, and it's too bad I cannot quote you the GVWR, but I betcha there is a yooper here that could do it.

It's basically the same rating as the old 2500(non HD)

Big Mac is referring to my beef with GM for offering ONLY 3.42 & 4.10 ratios with the smaller motors over the last few years... I drove the z71 at the dealer and said N-O. I met many afterward (who do tow) who were quite unhappy with the 5.3L & 3.42 combination.

I can say you will not be unhappy with the 6.0L / 3.73 combo. Take 5 of your friends to the lake with you in your truck, haul your prostar and some camping gear too if you like, this truck won't hiccup.

bigmac
09-04-2007, 10:31 AM
[QUOTE=RicI can say you will not be unhappy with the 6.0L / 3.73 combo. Take 5 of your friends to the lake with you in your truck, haul your prostar and some camping gear too if you like, this truck won't hiccup.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't unhappy with my Denali 6 liter, HD tranny, 3.73 rear end - I drove it for 3 years. My only beef was that, in checking the mileage computer before I sold it, I noted that the lifetime average gas mileage was 14 mpg over 42,000 miles of mostly rural highway driving and about 3000 miles total towing.

Honestly, I don't fathom the performance complaints about the 5.3 liter 3.42 rear end. I don't believe for a minute that it's worse than my Denali was in terms of acceleration and roll-on passing.

Diesel
09-04-2007, 10:35 AM
DO NOT BUY AN LLY!

Search the Diesel Place forum and read about the overheat problems. The engineers screwed up and under the right conditions they will all overheat.

I had and LLY and finally had to sell it when it shut down on I40 towing my 209 back from Arkansas.

Stay with the LBZ.

beatle78
09-04-2007, 10:57 AM
I wasn't unhappy with my Denali 6 liter, HD tranny, 3.73 rear end - I drove it for 3 years. My only beef was that, in checking the mileage computer before I sold it, I noted that the lifetime average gas mileage was 14 mpg over 42,000 miles of mostly rural highway driving and about 3000 miles total towing.

Honestly, I don't fathom the performance complaints about the 5.3 liter 3.42 rear end. I don't believe for a minute that it's worse than my Denali was in terms of acceleration and roll-on passing.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you effectively "change" the gear ratio of the rear end by increasing/decreasing your tire size???

So a 3.42 with slightly smaller tire could have the same gear ratio as a 3.73 rear end with a larger tire?

beatle78
09-04-2007, 08:25 PM
I'm hoping to pickup a used 1500 4X4 for my daily driver next year.

It will be used for occasional boat towing and wood/material hauling.

I'm hoping to get 18-20 mpg highway since I drive 70 miles a day 98% highway.

Thrall
09-04-2007, 08:43 PM
If you want the dirt on Duramaxes, go to www.dieselplace.com and get ready to read.
One thing to note, if you're looking at the LB7 motor trucks (01-04), the 01-03 models have a 7yr/200k mi warranty on the injectors (because they've had that many problems). Fortunately, I'm at 70k mi on my 02 Dmax w/ no issues, injectors or otherwise.
The 04 LB7's have reported the same injector problems, but no extended warranty past the OEM 5yr/100k.
I wouldn't be afraid of buying a well kept LB7. They will be more in your price range, and an 02-03 will have 2-3 years left on injector warranty.
And YES you do need a 2500 HD diesel to pull your boat! (UMP):D

Carbon Dreams
09-04-2007, 11:00 PM
Buy a Dodge...The cummins is bulletproof. And I'm a chevy guy. For towing, my Cummins is a freight train. Hauling the 15,100 fifth wheel is a breeze, let alone the boat.

Workin' 4 Toys
09-04-2007, 11:41 PM
My question is this is the 2500HD overkill?
Not necessarily, Get the diesel if you can foot the bill.
What would you guys do?
Given the 2 options you gave,
1st place is the Diesel 2500HD.
The runner up, 1500HD

TheOneandOnly
09-05-2007, 12:11 AM
i agree with passing, that has always been our problem with our suvs we've had->too slow espically when towing the 4 wheelers. Thats whats making be lean to the bigger!

I think our jeep has a 3.4:1 rear end and it sucks of course its a v6.

My next truck will be a GMC 2500 Single Cab. My wife has a Yukon so the Ext cab for me is a waste of money. I like the feeling of security with the heavier truck. The 1500 is just too soft, at least for me. A 2500 sinlge will be cheaper than the 1500 Ext cab I currently have and the mileage will only go down slightly.

BigMac and I have almost the same truck. He likes his and I'll never own another 3:42 rear end truck again, not a chance :mad:

Of course, Bigmac is certainly more patient than I am :D

When I go out to pass I want to pass not wait and then pass.....

Diesel
09-05-2007, 11:07 AM
If you want the dirt on Duramaxes, go to www.dieselplace.com and get ready to read.
One thing to note, if you're looking at the LB7 motor trucks (01-04), the 01-03 models have a 7yr/200k mi warranty on the injectors (because they've had that many problems). Fortunately, I'm at 70k mi on my 02 Dmax w/ no issues, injectors or otherwise.
The 04 LB7's have reported the same injector problems, but no extended warranty past the OEM 5yr/100k.
I wouldn't be afraid of buying a well kept LB7. They will be more in your price range, and an 02-03 will have 2-3 years left on injector warranty.
And YES you do need a 2500 HD diesel to pull your boat! (UMP):D

My 02 Chevy 2500HD Duramax was the best truck I have ever owned. Never should have upgraded to the 04.5.

AFAIK 01-03 trucks which have had their injectors replaced under the extended 200k warranty have a lifetime warranty on the new injectors.

Ric
09-05-2007, 11:15 AM
Ric said you gotta go with the 1500HD

wakolman
09-05-2007, 11:52 AM
This place in WI sells nothing but used trucks. www.lenzauto.com

TheOneandOnly
09-05-2007, 12:17 PM
thanks wakolman will look

Hollywood
09-05-2007, 12:41 PM
We are going to be towing it (boat) around 3 times a week probably 15 to 20 minutes each way to different lakes. Will be using it as a daily vehicle 25miles one way to work. Will not be using it really for anything else tow wise that will be any heavier. My question is this is the 2500HD overkill? What would you guys do? I realize its night and day between the two but just curious since this will be our first truck. Thanks

Look at your NEEDS, not wants.

That tow time is nothing, no need for a 2500 diesel.
Daily driver 50+ miles per day, get the gasser.
No other towing needs, no need for a 2500 diesel.
First truck, no need for a 2500 diesel.
You're in MN, it gets cold up there another nod for the gas.
Guys like diesels.

Ok that's 4 votes for the 1500 gas, and 1 for the 2500 diesel. Be smart, if you can throw away the cash on the 2500 diesel go for it otherwise you already know what to do.

Ric
09-05-2007, 01:01 PM
One boost for you ford guys in this thread........

Walking out of the local gas station yesterday I heard a dude say to another dude, "nice truck man".. it was a 2500 F'd 4x4 extra cab gasser, which seems rare these days, and the owner said "thanks"...

I thought, "well how nice of the dude to say..." then the complimenter proceeded to gas up his explorer, no chit, with a fresh lit cigarette and cussing about someone on the cell phone...

How fine the F'd owner must have felt after being complimented by such a fine member of society......... :purplaugh:

Rather than engage an idiot on such a fine day, I drove away laughing.

(oh, same gas station as I saw the lady reading the coins carefully in her wallet while I waited patiently with 2 cases of bottles!)

Maristar210
09-05-2007, 01:12 PM
Ric said you gotta go with the 1500HD


yeah but your a **** 8p 8p

jwroblew
09-05-2007, 01:40 PM
I would go with the 1500, why would you want to go with a bigger truck with worse gas mileage and a worse ride when you do not need it. Hell that x2 can only weigh in at just over 3000 pounds, you could pull that with a S10 or colarado. If you have "small mans" complex I could go with the 2500.

beatle78
09-05-2007, 01:44 PM
I would go with the 1500, why would you want to go with a bigger truck with worse gas mileage and a worse ride when you do not need it. Hell that x2 can only weigh in at just over 3000 pounds, you could pull that with a S10 or colarado. If you have "small mans" complex I could go with the 2500.

I don't see how you could justify the added cost of the 2500HD Duramax for a 20 minute tow???

Ric
09-05-2007, 03:08 PM
yeah but your a **** 8p 8p YES I AM !

Thrall
09-06-2007, 04:18 PM
My 02 Chevy 2500HD Duramax was the best truck I have ever owned. Never should have upgraded to the 04.5.

AFAIK 01-03 trucks which have had their injectors replaced under the extended 200k warranty have a lifetime warranty on the new injectors.

I'm beginning to feel that way about mine as well. Power aside, because in that respect it is far and away the best truck I've owned (coming from 1/2 ton gassers), in the 50k mi that I've owned it, it's only nickel and dimed me for about $250 in parts, which is pretty much offset by the fact that after 70k mi, the brakes are still like new. Used to go thru brakes on 1/2 tons like mad.
Your LLY, if the problem is overheating, there are some very effective remedies available now. Not OEM, but the aftermarket has stepped up and killed the o/h problem.
I am pretty sure your mistaken about the lifetime inj warranty. My truck came w/ the TSB and warranty info and it is pretty clear that you can get as many injectors as you need up to 7yr/200k, but after that, you're on your own.
FWIW though, GM is finally beta testing new injectors. New inj bodies and nozzles, but completely OEM factory fit, no ECM updates needed. This will hopefully end the injector problems. They (GM) is about 6 mo into their real world beta testing on privately owned trucks with extrordinary injector problem histories. Hopefully when, of if mine take a dump these will be available, as I'm just under 2 yrs left on the warranty. Right now, I don't have a single one w/ a balance rate over +/- 3 in park or drive, so everything is good.

Sodar
09-06-2007, 04:25 PM
You can never go wrong with a 2500... the just looks soooooo purdy! I only tow a little PS 197, but when time comes to replace my Tahoe, a 2500 Duramax will be the replacement vehicle!

Ric
09-06-2007, 04:31 PM
I'm beginning to feel that way about mine as well. Power aside, because in that respect it is far and away the best truck I've owned (coming from 1/2 ton gassers), in the 50k mi that I've owned it, it's only nickel and dimed me for about $250 in parts, which is pretty much offset by the fact that after 70k mi, the brakes are still like new. Used to go thru brakes on 1/2 tons like mad.
Your LLY, if the problem is overheating, there are some very effective remedies available now. Not OEM, but the aftermarket has stepped up and killed the o/h problem.
I am pretty sure your mistaken about the lifetime inj warranty. My truck came w/ the TSB and warranty info and it is pretty clear that you can get as many injectors as you need up to 7yr/200k, but after that, you're on your own.
FWIW though, GM is finally beta testing new injectors. New inj bodies and nozzles, but completely OEM factory fit, no ECM updates needed. This will hopefully end the injector problems. They (GM) is about 6 mo into their real world beta testing on privately owned trucks with extrordinary injector problem histories. Hopefully when, of if mine take a dump these will be available, as I'm just under 2 yrs left on the warranty. Right now, I don't have a single one w/ a balance rate over +/- 3 in park or drive, so everything is good. Thrall, I think the GM 1/2 ton brake pad issue was solved with the nbs 99's

Ric
09-06-2007, 04:39 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you effectively "change" the gear ratio of the rear end by increasing/decreasing your tire size???

So a 3.42 with slightly smaller tire could have the same gear ratio as a 3.73 rear end with a larger tire? Yes, I think you are correct that the basic, end user effect is the same. Since I actually tend to go with larger than factory tires upon replacement, this has the opposite effect for me, increasing the need to start out with a 3.73

Ric
09-06-2007, 04:41 PM
You can never go wrong with a 2500... the just looks soooooo purdy! I only tow a little PS 197, but when time comes to replace my Tahoe, a 2500 Duramax will be the replacement vehicle! That is nice, but I cannot imagine those gay wheels holding up off-road

Sodar
09-06-2007, 04:59 PM
That is nice, but I cannot imagine those gay wheels holding up off-road

We don't offroad here in Cali... we are all posers!

Ric
09-06-2007, 05:15 PM
We don't offroad here in Cali... we are all posers! anybody know of any 4x4 suburban or yukonXL package GM offers which would include duramax?

Sodar
09-06-2007, 05:21 PM
anybody know of any 4x4 suburban or yukonXL package GM offers which would include duramax?

Not yet, but you can have one made (http://www.duramaxsuburban.com/Duramax_Suburban/Home.html). I have heard rumors of a diesel suburban in 2009, but who knows!

tones03
09-06-2007, 05:29 PM
They are in the process of developing a baby duramax. I think a 4.5 litre or something. great power and torque mated to a 6-speed, not allison though, same 6-speed that are in the gasser HD pick-up, 09-10 should be availible.

Ric
09-06-2007, 05:38 PM
Not yet, well why the hell not? :mad:

tones03
09-06-2007, 05:52 PM
well why the hell not? :mad:

i can tell you a couple reasons, but comes down to the big wigs thinking there isnt a market for it. 90% of the excursion owners I know bought that over the suburban because of the diesel option. Only have a couple more years to wait though.

Ric
09-06-2007, 05:54 PM
i can tell you a couple reasons, but comes down to the big wigs thinking there isnt a market for it. 90% of the excursion owners I know bought that over the suburban because of the diesel option. Only have a couple more years to wait though. but I don't think we'd want it if it weren't the allison setup

Sodar
09-06-2007, 05:54 PM
well why the hell not? :mad:

Dude, that question has baffled me for a while now! My Dad bought my Mom an '88 Diesel Suburban and I think that that era was the last to have a diesel in it. I know soooooo many people who would buy a diesel suburban at the drop of the hat... I suprised GM does not see the market for it.

Ric
09-06-2007, 05:56 PM
I've been singing 1500HD, but I don't even see it on the GM website anymore.

tones03
09-06-2007, 06:01 PM
I've been singing 1500HD, but I don't even see it on the GM website anymore.

the new 1500 HD is the vortec max package.

They wont offer the allison with the baby duramax because it is to expensive.

Ric
09-06-2007, 06:20 PM
Looks like the 1500HD is only available in what they call a silverado classic.. is that what they call the vortec max package? I didnt see that one on the gm website

tones03
09-06-2007, 06:26 PM
The vortec maxx package is in the new design. Comes with the 6.0 and made more for towing. Looks the same as the new 1500 with 5.3.

Ric
09-06-2007, 06:43 PM
Nah, gm website won't let me build a silverado 1500 crew cab with a standard box, so I know it won't let me do the 6liter motor....

Ric
09-06-2007, 06:46 PM
what thehell, now they even offer a 3.23:1 ratio to go with the 4.8gas on 1/2ton crew models :eek: where is bigmac?

TheOneandOnly
09-06-2007, 09:39 PM
Why are diesels soo much more cost wise??

tones03
09-06-2007, 09:56 PM
Why are diesels soo much more cost wise??


Lots of research goes into those, expensive metals and other crap, plus they can charge the premium because they sell everyone they make.

KY Larry
09-06-2007, 09:59 PM
Once you drive a diesel, you will be hooked on the power. I've got a Ford F-350 dually, and love it.

KY Larry
09-06-2007, 10:01 PM
Stupid question from the new guy....
Is Chevy and Mastercraft together in some way? I notice many, many Chevy's with Mastercraft.
I'm not selling my Ford..... big KY grin !!!

tones03
09-06-2007, 10:12 PM
They use GM engines, and for a while I could get a discount on an MC for working at GM, but they stopped that. Other then I think it is more of a GM/Vortec/MasterCraft relationship. People closer with MC may know more.

TheOneandOnly
09-06-2007, 10:14 PM
Stupid question from the new guy....
Is Chevy and Mastercraft together in some way? I notice many, many Chevy's with Mastercraft.
I'm not selling my Ford..... big KY grin !!!

They do I believe have Cadallic motors in the larger boats...:D

TheOneandOnly
09-06-2007, 10:15 PM
They use GM engines, and for a while I could get a discount on an MC for working at GM, but they stopped that. Other then I think it is more of a GM/Vortec/MasterCraft relationship. People closer with MC may know more.

Can I get a discount on a truck from you?;)

tones03
09-06-2007, 10:19 PM
I can get you a supplier discount. PM if you are interested and I will let you know what I need from you. Gave one to g-man on here for his duramax.

Hollywood
09-07-2007, 12:15 PM
Stupid question from the new guy....
Is Chevy and Mastercraft together in some way? I notice many, many Chevy's with Mastercraft.

Ford pulled out of the marine business about 5 years ago.

c_pohja
09-12-2007, 04:26 PM
I just got back last night from a 300+ mile trip with my Duramax pulling my S&S. I got right on 16 mph CC set on 80 for most of the trip. i was pretty happy with that. I do have a custom chip, but not one setup for mph

01 2500HD duramax and i would not be afraid of an LB7 if it was taken care of. We have three in the family and are all GREAT trucks

Ric
09-12-2007, 04:54 PM
I don't need a deisel but I may have to get one just to know what all the hype is about

G-man
09-12-2007, 05:07 PM
I can get you a supplier discount. PM if you are interested and I will let you know what I need from you. Gave one to g-man on here for his duramax.


It has been a great truck and tows like nobody's business. Evan my wife is glad we got rid of the Ford. It must have been a Monday truck.