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View Full Version : repainting a m/c 190


drbesvold1
08-26-2007, 06:45 PM
has anyone ever repainted there m/c and if so how do you start the project?

bigmac
08-26-2007, 06:55 PM
Do you mean painting over a previously painted boat, painting over the gel coat, or re-gelcoating it?

drbesvold1
08-26-2007, 06:57 PM
im thinking of sanding the old stuff off and starting off with fresh paint and jel coat

bigmac
08-26-2007, 07:10 PM
See, with these boats...there is no paint. The gel coat is the color unless somebody painted it previously. If you're talking about sanding off all of the gel coat, you're talking about a big job, and re-gelcoating is even bigger. You'd be better off just paining over the gel coat. You'll need to get ALL of the wax off with a commercial solvent, then fill gouges with epoxy or polyester putty. Then you'll need to put a fiberglass primer on over the gel coat, and that primer has to be designed to soften the gel coat to allow it to adhere. Alternatively, you can sand the gel coat gloss off with #80 sandpaper but supposedly that doesn't work as well. One the primer is on, you can paint using some kind of two-part epoxy, or some brand of linear polyurethane. On the positive side, these paints can protect and wear better than polyester gelcoat. On the negative side, it's a huge job and very expensive.

drbesvold1
08-26-2007, 07:16 PM
i know its a expensive job im just wondering if i am better off doing all the pre gel coating work myself and having someone paint over the previous gel coat with a diffrent colors and then putting the boat back together myself? any opinions out there

drbesvold1
08-26-2007, 07:19 PM
and wheres the best place to buy gel coating ?

JimN
08-26-2007, 07:22 PM
What part of the Midwest? Fountain of Youth For Boats is one place that does this kind of thing. The guys at Chicago MC use a couple of different places and you could probably call them for ideas.

They're right- most boats aren't painted, it's gelcoat. Two completely different animals, processes, prep, finishing and care. MC sprays the gelcoat into the mold, then lays the fiberglass in. Spraying gelcoat onto an existing hull will never look the same as a new MC. Spraying gelcoat is similar to paint, in that it's sprayed on. The actual technique, gun settings, pressure and mixing need to be correct in order for there to be any hope of a good result. After it's on, it cures and needs to be sanded and polished. Same steps, different methods. Gelcoat doesn't become smooth after it has been sprayed on, either. It's dull and the tendency is to ask "What went wrong?". It won't shine the way it does when sprayed into a polished mold and there's no way to get it to. Once gelcoat has been sanded and polished, it's porous.

Why do you want to do this?

drbesvold1
08-26-2007, 07:26 PM
well i live in st paul,mn and the reason i want to do this is cause when i bought the boat there were scratches and paint chips in the gel coat every where and theres one huge scratch on the passenger side all down the side of the boat so it needs to be redone plus i want to put a mirroral on the bow of the boat to make the boat look sweet

T Scott
08-26-2007, 07:29 PM
Even if your original gel coat is faded, it can easily be brought back to life with a weekend of wet sanding and compounding. There are numerous threads outlining this process.

Do you not like the color of the boat or something?

drbesvold1
08-26-2007, 07:31 PM
theres just way to many paint chips and scratches in the boat

pilot02
08-26-2007, 07:33 PM
What part of the Midwest? Fountain of Youth For Boats is one place that does this kind of thing. The guys at Chicago MC use a couple of different places and you could probably call them for ideas.

They're right- most boats aren't painted, it's gelcoat. Two completely different animals, processes, prep, finishing and care. MC sprays the gelcoat into the mold, then lays the fiberglass in. Spraying gelcoat onto an existing hull will never look the same as a new MC.

Why do you want to do this?

Sorry Jim, I disagree! (Bigmac too) All depends on the amount of effort and ultimat $$'s someone is willing to go for.

I've done both. Gelcoat is far more labor intensive and yes less forgiving than polyurethane automotive finishes but it does provide an original finish whereas a painted boat can be spotted a mile away. Gelcoat also does not scratch or show scratches nearly as easily as a urethane finish (especially BC/CC) and adherence to the substrate is not nearly as critical especially if you sand the previous gelcoat with a DA using 100-150 grit sandpaper and wipe the hull down with styrene monomer right before you spray. Gelcoat IS much more labor intensive after being sprayed in that it will take wetsanding multiple times and ultimately buffed with varying compounds to get the gloss back where a BC/CC system might need "color sanding" with 1500-2000 grit" paper and then a light buffing...

My .02

mitch
08-26-2007, 07:34 PM
http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=15387&highlight=imron

pilot02
08-26-2007, 07:40 PM
Hey Mitch! What's up?

threadjack....

JimN
08-26-2007, 07:42 PM
You must have used different gelcoat- I have never seen sprayed on gelcoat achieve the luster of a hull with the gel sprayed into the mold.

What part are you actually disagreeing with? You said it yourself by describing the differences in the process. Someone who is good with paint absolutely can NOT assume that shooting a boat with gelcoat is the same job.

He wants a mural- I think that's going to be a lot easier with paint. Either way- paint or gelcoat, it's a big job. Something I would practice with before hauling off and doing.

pilot02
08-26-2007, 07:47 PM
Jim, didn't mean any disrespect.... the key I found to gelcoating is using a product called "Duratec" by duratec industries which is mixed with gelcoat and eliminates the need to spray PVA mold release after you've shot the gelcoat.. Duratec does make the gelcoat a little more brittle kinda like "tooling"gelcoat but when buffed the luster , and I mean REALLY comes back.

drbesvold1
08-26-2007, 08:01 PM
ok so whats my best bet to do at least stuff that i can do myself to make things alittle cheaper ?

JimN
08-26-2007, 08:13 PM
You'll have to talk with whoever does the most work on it. Everyone has their own ways of doing things and getting into a job that's been started by someone else isn't usually what a lot of people like to do. No matter how well you do what you do, someone will want to re-do it, to their liking. Look at it this way- if you were going to paint something expensive and try to do a great job, you'll want to have as much control over what goes on as possible. Plus, most people will want some kind of warranty on the job and if someone outside of their company works on it, they can't have control over what is done.

One spot of something that keeps paint or gelcoat from sticking will ruin the job and you just know it's going to be in a very conspicuous place. Someone spraying silicone nearby, no matter how careful they are, will ruin a paint or gelcoat job. Brake fluid, oil, wax, grease, whatever- it'll be hard to remove completely if it gets into a porous surface, especially after sanding.

As far as saving money- what is your time worth, do you have the tools, materials and a clean space to do this, and do you have any experience in this kind of work? Once you answer these questions, you can decide after telling the shop what you want, whether you want to work on it and then getting your estimates.

I know this wasn't a direct Yes or NO, but I can't speak for someone who would do this for you. I just know from experience in doing mobile and residential/business electronics that un-doing what someone started in an audio or video system wasn't part of their plan but if I'm going to do a job, I'm going to do it right, regardless of the intentions of the customer. Now, if you actually have a lot of experience in this kind of work, that's a different story. You'll be familiar with some of what will be needed and the terminology.

drbesvold1
08-26-2007, 08:16 PM
well i was thinking of doing it as a winter project but this is seeming to be way to detailed for me so im better off just taking it in the shop , thanks for all the info

JimN
08-26-2007, 08:24 PM
I try not to be discouraging, just realistic. On a more positive side- there is a lot of information out there and materials sites are good sources. If you want to try gelcoat, find out who makes what the boat manufacturers are using, call or e-mail them and get answers to as many questions as possible. Same for paint makers. DuPont makes Imron, one of the better paints out there but it needs to be mixed, handled and sprayed correctly in order to get the results you want. As far as I know, catalysed paints don't do well if they're sanded and buffed. I could be totally wrong on this, though. My Trek bike has Imron and it's nice and smooth, but that could just be from their process. I have also seen it look like the surface of the moon.

drbesvold1
08-26-2007, 08:28 PM
i think ill just leave the painting up to the pro's i just hope it wont cost me my right and left nut lol

Farmer Ted
08-26-2007, 08:52 PM
has the boat already been painted over the gel coat?

drbesvold1
08-26-2007, 08:54 PM
i dont think so i truely dont know i bought the boat this past spring

Farmer Ted
08-26-2007, 08:56 PM
i dont think so i truely dont know i bought the boat this past spring

what color is it under the observers seat?

drbesvold1
08-26-2007, 08:58 PM
ur talking where the battery is and the seat where u can get underneith the bow well thats white

Farmer Ted
08-26-2007, 09:08 PM
ur talking where the battery is and the seat where u can get underneith the bow well thats white

so that would lead me to believe that

-your boat left the factory white and red?

-the silver/gray on your boat is probably paint, based on the photos you posted where white was showing through the scratches, if it were scratched through the gel coat it would show pink

If the paint on your boat is chipping/coming off, I would go down the path of getting the paint that's on the boat off as carefully as I could as to not dork up the white gel coat any worse than it is.

Once the condition of the gel coat can be determined, I'd try and get some estitmates to work the gel coat to get it back to as close to original as possible.

As far as getting a mural done for the bow, I would seriously consider contacting a place that does wide format printing/vehicle wraps and have them work up a quote based on the picture and the size of the bow. Tell them you want a wrap for just the bow of your boat.

This will be far more durable than getting a mural airbrushed because it will be cold laminated and have a protective surface on it.

If the price is reasonable enough, I'd get a spare or two as that part of the boat will catch the most sunlight.

Vehicle wraps that are laminated will last 3-5 years if cared for correctly (not run through automatic car washes)

Just my $.02

drbesvold1
08-26-2007, 09:14 PM
thanks for the info ted , ill have to get a price on everything and see if i can truely afford to do this project this winter

drbesvold1
08-26-2007, 09:16 PM
what kind of price do u think is reasonable for a new gel coating ?

6ballsisall
08-26-2007, 09:18 PM
what kind of price do u think is reasonable for a new gel coating ?

YOu don't want to know.......
To do a good job it could be 9-10k

drbesvold1
08-26-2007, 09:20 PM
damnnnnnnnnnnnnn 9-10k im better off just letting the scratches go hell i only paid 8k for the boat

6ballsisall
08-26-2007, 09:21 PM
damnnnnnnnnnnnnn 9-10k im better off just letting the scratches go hell i only paid 8k for the boat

Exactly. ;)

drbesvold1
08-26-2007, 09:25 PM
well midwest mastercraft gave me a quick quote of 5k

Farmer Ted
08-26-2007, 09:25 PM
what kind of price do u think is reasonable for a new gel coating ?

you should stop thinking in terms of getting the entire boat re-gel coated

there's a very good possibility the gel coat under the paint is in decent shape and will need to be restored

there are several restoration kits that are either a two or three step process and require some sweat equity

http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=12550&highlight=Restoration+Diary (http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=12550&highlight=Restoration+Diary)

BriEOD also did a gelcoat restoration himself, ask him to post a link.

drbesvold1
08-26-2007, 09:30 PM
that boat turned out pretty sweet but what about the deep scratchs?

Farmer Ted
08-26-2007, 11:13 PM
that boat turned out pretty sweet but what about the deep scratchs?


that's were you get a gel coat "repair" kit and fill the scratches, blend and buff them, and you're good to go

much cheaper, more logical repair, won't hinder your resale when you go to turn the boat someday

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=gel+coat+repair+kit

drbesvold1
08-30-2007, 09:02 PM
these were taken tonight what do u think do u think just a repair kit will fix these scratches?