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boofer
08-25-2007, 01:46 PM
Hello. I just recently finished my X-2 ballast upgrade. I spent much time browsing the boards here and other places before finally deciding exactly what to do. I wanted the system to be as unevasive as possible. I did not want to make any modifications that would be hard to undue or leave unsightly marks should I remove the system in the future (i.e. should we ever decide to sell the boat and want to keep the ballast). I was also set on using the existing ballast pumps whenever possible and not using any sort of portable (handheld) pump.

At first I was intrigued by the Wakeside complete X-2 ballast system. Basically, you add sacks to the rear (keeping the hard tanks), keep the center sack, and add an integrated bow sack (IBS). You use a set of 3 3-way valves to control the water from the existing 3 pumps. I had 3 problems with this system. 1) It required mounting these 3 3-way valves and a vast array of plumbing. 2) You had to manipulate these valves each time you wanted to direct the flow of water. 3) It cost $1250.

The additional ballast gained in the rear from the Wakeside system did not equal the ballast gained from just simply replacing the hard tanks with 750lb. sacks which are less expensive then the "custom-made" rear X-2 sacks that are made to go next to the hard tanks. Simply replacing the tanks with sacks seemed to be the easiest and the best option. Granted, the hard tanks would have to be removed. But, removing them is as simple as unscrewing them and removing the 2 hoses.

Okay, on to the forward ballast. The center sack maximizes the area in the ski locker. So, I left it in tact.

Now comes the "hardest" part of the upgrade: the IBS. I did not want to compromise seating by simply throwing a sack on the seats or in the floor. Plus, we have kids and having them stumble around a sack in the floor was not preferable. So, I liked the IBS. I do not think, despite FatSac's description, that the IBS will completely fill under the seats. But, it was the best and, in our case, the only option. Okay now, how to plump it. At first I wanted to add a pump and dedicate it to the IBS. I spent quite some time trying to figure out the best place for the pump and how to plumb it. I wanted to put it in the little "cubby" under the seat next to the center sack pump. But, I could not see a way of fitting it in there. I thought about the way P-hat in Cincy mounted his pumps on the forward side of the rear lockers. Then I noticed that the newer X-stars have all 3 of the pumps mounted on the inside of the transom. I thought I could remove the rear piece covering the one of the rear pumps and mount in that area since I thought it would have more space. I got discouraged with any method that I considered. So, I decided to simply place either 1 3-way valve or 2 2-way valves on the hose coming from the forward sack and utilize the center sack pump. I was in hopes that I could put this valve or valves in the bilge access area. Well, I ordered the sacks (2 750lb. rears and 1 IBS). I ordered a 50' roll of the 3/4" spa hose. I found the valves that I had looked at at West Marine. Hut oh:confused: These things were quite a bit larger than I had hoped. Scramble time!

I decided to revert to my idea for the additional pump for the IBS. Honestly, this was my preferred idea. But, I was trying to keep expenses down and have an easy system to install and use.

So, I ordered a pump from iBoats ($250). When it arrived, I took it out and began checking those places I mentioned earlier for fitment. I was not at all happy with putting it on the panel on the transom. The existing pump is mounted directly to the transom on a dedicated mounting block (a wood block covered in fiberglass). The only option was to mount it to the backside of the panel. Nope, I wasn't happy with it. So, back to plan A: mount it in same area as the center pump. I must of spent several hours moving pumps around in that space. I had 3 criteria to work out. 1) I had to work out hose routings. 2) I tried to consider impeller replacement scenarios. 3) I had to have enough room to get a drill in to mount the new pump. Well, I was almost fed up when I just simply laid the pump down to go inside and relax....PERFECT! I was able to mount it while leaving the center pump in it's original location. Hose routing is good. Impeller placement is not optimum, but I decided to sacrifice this criteria. I am going to buy a Deutsch wire connector for the pump wiring. For now they are spliced.

I had originally thought about tapping out another hole in the ballast distribution block. I read somewhere else where someone "said" they did this but attempts to contact this person were unsuccessful. So, I decided to simple "T" off of the center hose going in to the center pump. I am in hopes that this will work out fine.

Phew, well I got the pump logistics worked out, now how about the plumbing. The existing center sack has a single fill/drain hose and 2 overfill hoses (one on the top and one on the bottom). I figured out where all of these hoses ran. I decided to try using the center sack rear overfill line for the IBS. I removed the hose and pulled it back through the hole in the floor under the front seat and dash area. I capped this hole in the sack. The center sack still has the forward overfill. I decided to split the fill/drain for the IBS so it can fill and drain form both sides (hopefully get a more even fill and a more complete drain). All hoses run under the floor utilizing cutouts for wiring and other hoses. It takes a little patience to snake them.

One last note. I bought a Jabsco Ballast Puppy. Unfortunately, it is one of the newer versions and has the "run-dry" protection. I have read in several places that people have problems with this pump cutting off by itself due to the "run-dry" protection which I believe is simply a timer built in to the pump. We'll see. The wiring was fairly simple. The pump came with a prewired switch with about 6" of wire. Although not necessary, I used 12 gauge wire to match the switch's wiring. 14 gauge would of been within the pumps specifications, but I decided to play it safe. I went ahead and matched the wire colors per the instructions. If the pump works opposite from what I expect then all I have to do is remove the cover, pull out the switch, turn it upside down (leave wires attached), and then replace the cover. I also installed a 20amp circuit breaker that I bought from MC. I did have to drill a hole for it. It was tricky. I had to angle my drill as far as I could without nicking the panel. Optimally, I would have removed the entire panel and drilled from the inside. But, for those who have not removed this panel it is virtually impossible. And, by the way, I am still in the group who has not removed this panel. There is one bolt at the top that is only reachable if you have a 5' long arm that is only 1' in circumference. The only other way is to completely remove the throttle assembly to open up the space to get to the bolt. But, my finished product was maybe less than 1mm off and looks good. The rest of the wiring was easy. You connect one lead to the hot bus and the other to the grounding bus. Both buses are under the dash.

I have yet to test the system other than momentarily turn on the pump to make sure it works. My only worries right now are leaks around clamped areas. I found a nice 3/4" "Y" to use to split the hose to the IBS, but I am not 100% sold on it. It was not as tight as I would of liked and it is hard to clamp the spa hose since it is so hard. Also, I had to use a barb fitting on the supply hose to the IBS pump since the spa hose would not clamp tight enough on the outside of the pump housing (like the stock 1" MC hose will). I should also say that I used 3/4" hose everywhere except for the 2' of 1" hose I used to supply the IBS.

All in all, this took me 1.5 days. Much of the time was spent deciding where to put the additional pump. I never once had to remove the floor panel or the driver's side kick panel. It might of made things slightly simpler, but it was not necessary.

I wish to thank all of those people whose posts I read. I cannot recall all of them. But, I would like to give special thanks to P-hat in Cincy. Although his boat is a 205v, his ballast installation post was extremely helpful and he was willing to answer email questions without reservation. Thanks Paul!

If I had it to do all over again, I would of bit the bullet and got a hold of some of the hose that MC uses; both the 3/4" stuff and the 1". The flexible pvc (spa) hose is overkill. It is too rigid and the stock stuff would work just fine (not to mention it would have more "flexibility").

Okay, how bout some pictures to go with this mile long post.

boofer
08-25-2007, 01:47 PM
One rear sack. I used the existing fill/drain hose and made a longer overfill hose.
http://carpron.com/multisite/d/157312-2/Picture+053.jpg

The IBS installed. Note the overfill line at the front. I was able to tuck the hose under the side along the edge.
http://carpron.com/multisite/d/157319-2/Picture+055.jpg

The port side fill/drain of the IBS. NOTE: I was able to avoid drilling an additional hole here. Turns out there was a hole here and all I had to do was cut the carpet a small bit. I cut it in an "+" pattern. It looks cleaner that way.
http://carpron.com/multisite/d/157322-2/Picture+056.jpg

The starboard side of the IBS fill/drain.
http://carpron.com/multisite/d/157325-2/Picture+057.jpg

boofer
08-25-2007, 01:48 PM
The hose routing to the IBS with the 3/4" Y-fitting.
http://carpron.com/multisite/d/157328-2/Picture+058.jpg

The Y-fitting.
http://carpron.com/multisite/d/157331-2/Picture+059.jpg
http://carpron.com/multisite/d/157347-2/Picture+065.jpg

boofer
08-25-2007, 01:48 PM
The center and IBS pumps. Note the lack of a fitting on the center pump and the barbed fitting on the IBS pump. Also, despite saying "Water Puppy" on the newer pump, it says "Ballast" just below it. An older pump is model number 18220-7123 and the newer pump model number is 18220-1123.
http://carpron.com/multisite/d/157337-2/Picture+060.jpg

Another view. The spa hose is not as user friendly as one might think.
http://carpron.com/multisite/d/157334-2/Picture+062.jpg

I noticed this exposed screw end in the underseat area where the IBS is located. I used the end of an automotive vacuum plug to cover these.
http://carpron.com/multisite/d/157340-2/Picture+063.jpg

Pump switch. The rocker switch that came with the pump is almost an exact match. Sorry, the picture is a little dark.
http://carpron.com/multisite/d/157316-2/Picture+054.jpg

boofer
08-25-2007, 01:49 PM
Switch wiring behind the panel. The circuit breaker just seemed to fit better horizontal unlike the others which are vertical.
http://carpron.com/multisite/d/157373-2/Picture+069.jpg

The positive lead (the yellow one).
http://carpron.com/multisite/d/157367-2/Picture+066.jpg

The ground lead attached to the larger screw since all of the smaller ones were occupied.
http://carpron.com/multisite/d/157370-2/Picture+067.jpg

boofer
08-25-2007, 01:50 PM
The stock ballast system and plumbing. It is fairly accurate with regard to actual positions of the components.
http://carpron.com/multisite/d/157353-2/Stock+Ballast.jpg

The ballast system upgrade. All of my changes are in red. Notice that the IBS overfill is nothing more than one of the center sack overfills routed to the front.
http://carpron.com/multisite/d/157377-2/Ballast+Upgrade.jpg

SDAhockey21
08-25-2007, 02:12 PM
Good work! Let us now how the wake is!!

boofer
08-25-2007, 02:13 PM
By the way, overall cost of this system is $1059. The breakdown goes like this and all amounts include shipping and tax where apllicable:

2 rear FatSacs and 1 IBS $605.91 Wakeside.com

1 Ballast Puppy pump and the Y-fitting $261.35 iBoats.com

Flexible 3/4" PVC (spa hose) $48.90 FlexPVC.com

20' of 12/2 wire (used maybe 15'), various wire fasteners, various fittings and clamps $111.87 West Marine

2' of 1" spa hose $4.81 Home Depot

20amp CB $10.26 Travis Marine (local MC dealer)

Deutsch wire connector $???

corey
08-25-2007, 02:17 PM
Sweet install!!! We run a pretty similar set up in my buddies 01' but not with as clean of an install as that. Ours was definitally an overengineered under thought production.

SDAhockey21
08-25-2007, 02:19 PM
So you are now no longer using the two Stock hard tanks in the back correct?

boofer
08-25-2007, 02:22 PM
:uglyhamme
I wish that I could tell you. My wife and daughter went to Girlscout camp. I am home alone with my 5 year old son and he hasn't quite yet master driving the truck with a trailer.

I think that the wake will be good. I might have to consider extra weight for the front. If so, I will probably use lead.

Otherwise, I think that it will work out well. I need to check for leaks and such. I also need to keep an eye on the engine compartment walls. P-hat in Cincy had an issue with them being pushed against the exhaust manifolds by the 750lb sacks and he installed a nifty little brace.

boofer
08-25-2007, 02:26 PM
Correct. I removed the 2 stock hard tanks. I plan on keeping them should we ever decide to sell the boat and we want to keep the upgraded ballast.

1boarder
08-25-2007, 03:27 PM
Fine install.

cbaird
08-26-2007, 10:42 AM
I did the same sacs as you did but instead of going through the hassle of doing a new pump I simply teed the port and starboard center vent holes into the bow sac and let the center ballast fill and drain it. Works perfect and was really simple to install. Problem is that it still needs more weight up front to handle the 2 rear 750's so I don't always fill em up unless it's just me any my wife riding.

Also, upgraded to PP and a new wakeboard prop which you'll need for the extra weight.

05 x2

bigmac
08-26-2007, 11:26 AM
Boy, that is an impressive installation and impressive documentation! Very cool. I gotta say though, your effort as well as the many problems with ballast systems I see posted makes me very relieved that my boat useage doesn't require ballasting of any kind.

boofer
08-26-2007, 10:18 PM
So, how did the new ballast system work? Well, it had it's +'s and -'s.

IBS (integrated bow sack)
1. Pump ran perfectly. All connections sealed well.

2. The Y-fitting was a disaster. It was not a tight fit and paired with the flexible PVC, I could not create a tight enough seal with the clamps. I went ahead and let the sack fill to capacity (let the bilge pump take care of the leak around the Y). The overfill fitting presses against the lip of the compartment and took out a bb-sized chip. I am going to go with a simple T-fitting to replace the Y. I am also going to rethink the overfill configuration. I want to go with at least two overfill connections.

3. The cup holders only popped out maybe 1" and were still usable, lol.

Center Sack
My concerns about using a single overfill were confirmed. As soon as the center sack was filled the fill/drain connection completely came off. I am going to return the second overfill hose to it's original place.

Rear Sacks
I did not fill them full, but they worked out fine. After the issue with the center sack, I did not want to risk popping the fill/drain fittings on the rear sacks because I would not of been able to reattach them until the sacks were empty via draining into the bilge. I think they got to 80-90% full.

Overall, I was pleased. Nothing happened that I did not at least anticipate or keep an eye out for. I do already see the need for more weight in the front (I kind of figured this). Whenever I got someone in the front, the wake smoothed out and the boat ran better. Also, I did forget one important thing; program the ballast into the Perfect Pass. I left the manual at home. So, the PP tended to vary the speed a little too much which lead to inconsistent wake. Something else I forgot to do the last time we were out; calibrate the speedo's (both the dial and the PP). I left the GPS at home. I am almost 100% sure that the PP is reading too slow. As soon as I set my speed with the dial, the wake became sweet.

I was not able to completely dial in the wake today. The water was rough (freaking tubers in the cove) and I just flat out need to get used to the system. Before, it was full ballast all the time. Now, I just flat need some experience and come up with some benchmarks.

So, what does this system need? More weight in the front and MORE OVERFILLS. I am thinking about 100lbs in the front for now. As far as the overfills go, I haven't decided.

But, I do have two question. Would it be okay to use the two upper aft connections on the IBS for overfills and cap the front one? And, if I "T" the rear sack overfills without a check valve, would that be a problem?

EDIT:
Okay, I need some input on the overfill situation. I thought about it and it makes no sense why the connection would pop off of the center sack other than the connection being bad. When the sack gets full, basically water should go out the overfill at the same rate as the input. I am going to doublecheck the connection, but I tightened all of the connections as much as I could by hand. I do not want to use a tool for fear I will strip the plastic/nylon threads. Worst case, what type of epoxy could I use to permanently attach the male quick connect fitting to the sack?

macrogp18
08-26-2007, 10:41 PM
Ok, so now lets see the wake that baby throws!

boofer
08-27-2007, 02:31 AM
Picture of what I mean. I am starting to think that basically you need the number overfills to equal the number of pumps. So, my problem is either a bad connection or a kinked overfill hose. But, just for peace of mind, if I am missing anything or if I am on the right track, I would appreciate feedback.

http://carpron.com/multisite/d/157734-2/untitled.jpg

P-hat_in_Cincy
08-27-2007, 08:31 AM
J,
I got your email and read most of what you had post, but will need to go back again.

However, the center vent/overfill is funny. On my stock '02 X10 system and my custom 205V install it was the same. It takes a lot of pressure to get that center sack to vent. It'll do it, but that bag will be ballooning. Basically I think it has to do with the vent location. You're trying to force a column of water ~2' higher than the pump. I think this is called "head" pressure.

I can't verify this is the cause, but I would have to stand on my '02 center bag to push water out of the vents. I just visually watch the center bag as it is the only troublesome one.

Great, clean install! Sorry I didn't reply to your (2nd from last email). I had some stuff that kept me busy!

Congrats again. It'll take some time to fine tune, but you're 90% there!

Take care,
Paul

cbaird
08-27-2007, 08:55 AM
Not sure why your having so many problems, may be due to the complex install. I've put a 100hrs on mine (same boat I believe - 05 x2) and fill/drain 3-4 times a week. The only issue I had was the threaded plugs popped out of the center sac (had this happen before without the setup too), I had extra fat sac plugs and put some new ones in which had deeper threads vs the stock (i think they upgraded these things). Hadn't had any problems for months.

I'm surprised your cup holders only pop an inch. Mine pop out onto the floor.

Still need a few hundred more up front.

You should look into the new props, the stock one will take a little bit to plain the boat out plus suck more gas/oil. The new prop really does a good job plus it settles the PP down quite a bit.

endl
08-27-2007, 11:13 AM
guys couple questions. I have a 45 I was thinking of doing a ballast upgrade also to help when there are only 2 or 3 people in the boat for surfing.
1. Why did you guys take the hard tanks out? I know you mentioned the 750's weigh more but why not add a big enough sac to combine the hard and soft tanks so you at least equal that 750 and have valve like the the Fligh High system so you can choose to fill eigher 1 or both rear tanks on either side.

2. If you "Y" in front of the soft tanks with a check valve going in through the top "fill" then come out from the bottom with a chck valve "empty" would this help get rid of the head pressure? Sorry I cannot draw it out but basically a triangle system going in that makes it fill from the top and empty from the bottom.

3. Prop....My PP surges terrible. I have adjusted values almost all the way up to the 200 value on the KDW. Will the newer prop help push the boat enough to help PP manage the speed.


Sorry for the partial thread jack as I dont have a X-2 but very similiar issues.....

Harvey
08-27-2007, 01:29 PM
guys couple questions. I have a 45 I was thinking of doing a ballast upgrade also to help when there are only 2 or 3 people in the boat for surfing.
1. Why did you guys take the hard tanks out? I know you mentioned the 750's weigh more but why not add a big enough sac to combine the hard and soft tanks so you at least equal that 750 and have valve like the the Fligh High system so you can choose to fill eigher 1 or both rear tanks on either side.

The biggest reason for swapping the tanks to sacks in my X1 was storage. When the bags are empty I can put two board with bindings in the compartment. When the tanks are empty they do not lay flat and thus I couldn't even get a single board in there. Even with my 550 sacks completely full I can put a boad with bindings in each rear compartment. The shape of the compartment and the shape of the 750 sack better mirror each other so that you have room left on top and the opening to the compartment isn't impeeded by the hard tank.


2. If you "Y" in front of the soft tanks with a check valve going in through the top "fill" then come out from the bottom with a chck valve "empty" would this help get rid of the head pressure? Sorry I cannot draw it out but basically a triangle system going in that makes it fill from the top and empty from the bottom.
This makes sense however I don't know if it will solve the head pressure issue although it might.


The big question I have is you (boofer) are using two pumps off of the same supply line for the front ballast do you have one pump starving the other?

boofer
08-27-2007, 01:32 PM
endl, you might want to consider starting your own thread. It is easier to follow that way. I choose to replace the hard tanks because I would have to do nothing more than take them out and put in the sacks....that's it. No manual valves to mess with and the plumbing was ultra simple.

Now, back to my thread.

I do recall the center sack fitting coming off once when there were no modifications to the system. I did notice that the quick disconnects that I got from Fly High are different than what is on my center sack. So, the newer ones my be improved. I will take one of each off to compare.

The "surging" PP could be the result of several things. First of all, I do know that there are settings that I need to adjust. Second, I need to do a good calibration on the speedometers. Throughout the entire run, the IBS was constantly going down due to the POS Y-fitting. I was not in the mood to keep pumping water into the sack and the boat every few minutes. I really think that the speedos are the main thing. When I used the dial speedo to set the speed everything got real nice. But, this was at the end of the day and we had to go.

cbaird, the system is not having a lot of problems. If everything would of worked as it should have, the system would be 100%. I suspected that the Y-fitting would be a problem. Everything else is just happenstance and easily fixed.

cbaird
08-27-2007, 01:36 PM
1) it's lot easier to plumb in a 750 sac into the hard tank connections rather then teeing and all that stuff and trying to tie it in. Plus the 750 is the only way to use the total volume of the compartment. You won't get near that with a side sac. Plus you can just quick disconnect for winter storage rather then having the dealer run anti-freeze through the hard tanks.

3) The right prop should eliminate the surge. The problem is most likely that the boat struggles too much to control speed. Either a wakeboard specific prop or just a smaller one.

cbaird
08-27-2007, 01:40 PM
boofer, I was tempted to run a second ballast at the beginning and the MC dealer helped me design this route. With a couple guys in the boat I only fill the rears to about 2/3 or it gets too inconsistant. This works great when out with wife and kids since they are so light, I just fill em full. This configuration is also about the best for wake surfing - port full and center/bow full.

endl
08-27-2007, 03:31 PM
Thanks Harvey and Cbaird............

Boofer there is no "I" in team. Sorry to bother you on "your thread". Just trying to learn from your great install. Good Job man way to go.

Harvey
08-27-2007, 06:11 PM
The big question I have is you (boofer) are using two pumps off of the same supply line for the front ballast do you have one pump starving the other?

He has a point, endl, he completely missed my question but glad I could help! :D

So......(sitting on pins and needles waiting for my answer). ;)

Rich_G
08-27-2007, 06:52 PM
EDIT:
Okay, I need some input on the overfill situation. I thought about it and it makes no sense why the connection would pop off of the center sack other than the connection being bad. When the sack gets full, basically water should go out the overfill at the same rate as the input. I am going to doublecheck the connection, but I tightened all of the connections as much as I could by hand. I do not want to use a tool for fear I will strip the plastic/nylon threads. Worst case, what type of epoxy could I use to permanently attach the male quick connect fitting to the sack?

Before you resort to gluing the Quick Disconnect Fitting, you could try a Nylon Male fitting that screws into the bag, with a barbed fitting on the other end. Then clamp the hose directly to the barbed end. You would lose the QD capability, but you will anyway if you glue it.

Look for the appropriate size Male NPT Fitting at the local hardware store. A Male Thread Garden Hose fitting will not work (wrong thread pattern) From your pictures it looks like you have Fly High bags. If this is a different type of bag then I'm not sure.

tbd01
08-27-2007, 08:52 PM
harvey, it appears that you have an X1, this is an X2 only thread, (per boofer) your question most likely will not be answered. START YOUR OWN THREAD!!!!!:rant: :cry:

TX.X-30 fan
08-27-2007, 11:08 PM
harvey, it appears that you have an X1, this is an X2 only thread, (per boofer) your question most likely will not be answered. START YOUR OWN THREAD!!!!!:rant: :cry:



What kind of tranny fluid goes in my X-30. :D :D

boofer
08-28-2007, 01:59 AM
endl, I did not mean any disrespect. I was just suggesting that you might want to consider starting your own thread. That way it is much easier to follow and you will draw attention form people who are knowledgeable in X-45's. I would gander that a thread titled "2006 X-45 Ballast Questions" would get you the information you need quicker than soliciting information on a 2005 X-2 thread. I will say this again. Going to sacks in the rear is ultra simple and gives you a great deal of flexibility. Simply adding sacks to the existing hard tanks involves more significant plumbing issues.

Harvey, you posted at the same time that I did and I never saw your post. I T'ed the fill/drain line from the center sack to the IBS. Since a pump works like a check valve when it is not running, each pump has unrestricted access to the line whether it is filling or draining. You can see this in one of my photos. The only time that there might be a restriction in flow is if I ran both pumps at the same time (which I tried and it worked fine both ways).

I just replaced my fancy-*** Y-fitting with a conventional T. I do not forsee any trouble with the leaks here anymore. I also applied Teflon tape to ALL of my fittings. I tightened them hand tight then gave them a few turns with pliers. I believe that any more trouble with the center sack will be something that has always been there. The same fitting came off some time back long before the ballast upgrade. I called Fly High today and they recommended that I use PVC cement to permanently attach that fitting. I am not real hip on that idea. I will give the tape a gp and see what happens. They also gave me a number to call to ask about the overfill question (one or two). I did not have a chance to call but I will try tomorrow.

The only other thought I have about the center sack is the fact that the fill/drain connection is on the bottom side of the sack. So, when the sack gets full all of the weight sits on the fitting and it might distort it enough to cause it to pop off. And I failed to mention, It was the entire fitting that came out; the screwed in part.

There is also a slight chance that my overfill line might of been kinked. I doublechecked it tonight with a flashlight after working with the fittings.

Now, as far as the surging goes. First of all, that was the best way that I could describe it. The water was really rough and it made speed control without ballast a challenge. I REALLY need to calibrate the speedo's. As I said before, when we set the speed with the dial gauge the wake got real nice and the "surging" was not present. Also, recall that the IBS was in a constant state of decreasing weight due to the faulty Y-fitting leaking constantly. So, the forward ballast was not like it should have been.

All-in-all, I think the system is great. I just need to do some tweaking.

Once again endl, I am not trying to be a jerk or anything. To be honest, I am wanting to help.

boofer
08-28-2007, 02:19 AM
cbaird, did you ever get any lead or such up front?

As far as props go, I am going to put that one off till I get these other things ironed out. But, just to put the cart before the horse, how can I identify my prop?

Anyone ever buy these Pop Sacks?

http://www.pop-products.com/index.htm

From what I read, it appears that businesses that have lead (tire stores, gun shops) are not as likely to sell it anymore due to environmental and health regulations. These Pop bags seem like a good deal.

P-hat_in_Cincy
08-28-2007, 07:54 AM
Before you resort to gluing the Quick Disconnect Fitting, you could try a Nylon Male fitting that screws into the bag, with a barbed fitting on the other end. Then clamp the hose directly to the barbed end. You would lose the QD capability, but you will anyway if you glue it.

Look for the appropriate size Male NPT Fitting at the local hardware store. A Male Thread Garden Hose fitting will not work (wrong thread pattern) From your pictures it looks like you have Fly High bags. If this is a different type of bag then I'm not sure.

A 3/4" PVC fitting will screw in to the FH bag but are prone to leaking because it's not a pipe fitting (not tapered).

Here's what I did to help minimize a leak, but you may just want to get the correct fittings from FH. I may move to them in the off-season.

Boofer,
Can you put some kind of support 'ring' around the fitting so most of the weight is supported by the ring and not the fitting itself?

P-hat_in_Cincy
08-28-2007, 08:01 AM
But, just to put the cart before the horse, how can I identify my prop?

Look to see if there are any #'s stamped on the hub of the prop. Then someone can probably tell you who the manufacturer is and some details about the prop.

Rich_G
08-28-2007, 10:03 AM
A 3/4" PVC fitting will screw in to the FH bag but are prone to leaking because it's not a pipe fitting (not tapered).

Here's what I did to help minimize a leak, but you may just want to get the correct fittings from FH. I may move to them in the off-season.

Boofer,
Can you put some kind of support 'ring' around the fitting so most of the weight is supported by the ring and not the fitting itself?

Paul, I like the gasket idea and I did the same thing with some O-rings. The Nylon Fittings I used match the Fly High bag openings and do not leak. I have found them at Home Depot but I don't have the part number handy. These fittings have a finer, tapered thread, and match the fittings that come with the FH Sac. In my local Tractor Supply (TSC) they are in the section with all the Dairy Farmer supplies. Here is a pic of one of my vent lines:

Harvey
08-28-2007, 01:08 PM
harvey, it appears that you have an X1, this is an X2 only thread, (per boofer) your question most likely will not be answered. START YOUR OWN THREAD!!!!!:rant: :cry:

2005 X2 is the same boat as the 2006 X1. :D Nice try though!

Harvey
08-28-2007, 01:12 PM
Harvey, you posted at the same time that I did and I never saw your post. I T'ed the fill/drain line from the center sack to the IBS. Since a pump works like a check valve when it is not running, each pump has unrestricted access to the line whether it is filling or draining. You can see this in one of my photos. The only time that there might be a restriction in flow is if I ran both pumps at the same time (which I tried and it worked fine both ways).


I don't know why but it surprises me that with both pumps filling at the same time there is not a starvation issue with one. Job well done, and I am glad it works. Let's see some pics of the wake!!!

boofer
08-28-2007, 01:34 PM
Harvey, in the beginning I wanted to run another hose off of the ballast distribution block. But, I could not get a definitive answer on how to do that. I am sure there might be an issue with "starvation," but only runnning one pump at a time negates any issue.

Paul,

Thanks for the information. I recall that fitting from your installation. I will check some things out, but I am starting to think that I just plain got a bad one. I did not reroute any of the center sack hoses. So, the fill/drain hose is in the same exact spot it was installed in. I used Teflon tape on all of my fittings and I will get a chance to test them out this weekend. I will also check the prop.

Rich,

Thanks for the input. I will keep it in mind. I would love to keep the quick disconnects but not a the expense of a fitting that does not give me peace of mind.

Well, off to work.

boofer
08-28-2007, 01:37 PM
Rich,

That fitting looks exactly like the ones MC used on the hard tanks...exactly. Hmmmmm

endl
08-28-2007, 02:11 PM
Boofer we are good no hard feelings. Hey BTW I did a search for "2006 X-45 Ballast questions" and "your thread" was the only one that pulled up.......LOL had to throw that in.:D

Sorry your stuck with me asking questions here. Plus your diagrams really are cool.

boofer
09-18-2007, 12:57 AM
Just a short update. The center sack is going to require a permanent fitting. It popped off again. I confirmed that the overfill was not kinked.

I adjusted both speedos: PP and analog. They were almost 2 mph off. I tweaked the other settings and the surge is gone. I think the speedo calibration was the biggy. I also was able to maintain all of the ballast in the front since I replaced the Y-fitting. The IBS pumped up and stayed full.

I just got some pop bags today and I hope we will be able to put it all together this weekend. Knowing my luck, we will get it dialed in just in time to winterize her.

Hope to have pics soon.

vogelm1
09-18-2007, 11:40 AM
If I had it to do all over again, I would of bit the bullet and got a hold of some of the hose that MC uses; both the 3/4" stuff and the 1". The flexible pvc (spa) hose is overkill. It is too rigid and the stock stuff would work just fine (not to mention it would have more "flexibility").



FWIW - it's probably too late now because you have everything installed...but for those stubborn fittings where the spa hose doesn't seem to be sealing properly, it will greatly help to heat the end of the hose with a heat gun. Get it just pliable enough that it will slip over the barbed fitting and tighten down your hose clamp while the hose is still soft. This should give you a nice leak-free seal.

boofer
09-23-2007, 11:28 PM
Just an update.

I bought 200lbs (5X40lb bags) of these "Pop Bags." http://www.pop-products.com/index.htm
Although they are only 2" thick, I wanted to see if I could place them in such a way that I would still be able to fill the IBS completely. I removed the IBS. I managed to place one of the bags underneath the cupholders. I then placed 2 sacks on each side on the floor under the seats. They rob very little if any room from the IBS.

I glued the fittings into the center sack. I really had no other choice. Well, we got out today and the center sack filled to full without popping a fitting. But, the sack got much more full then it ever did before. I was worried that the thing would rupture. The overfill was working, but I am only using one overfill (the second overfill went to my IBS). Has anyone ever heard of these sacks rupturing?

We went out today. Unfortunately, a dead battery required that we go home to get the jumper box. We only had enough time to give my daughter a few rides and let the kids swim. In addition, the wind was creating some choppy water. We do not use ballast with our daughter. But, just with the 200lbs in front, the wake at 19mph was noticeably larger. I did take the time to fill all of the sacks (rears to approx. 70%). The IBS filled to probably 95% despite the addition of the Pop Bags. A pleasant surprise was the fact that the forward cupholders remained in place. I did my best to find some relatively calm water to check the wake. It is thicker, a little taller, and not "rampy" (vertical).

Otherwise, the boat performed perfectly. No surging. Speed control was right on.

Right now, I would appreciate any advice with regards to the center sack.

jbr383
09-26-2007, 07:14 PM
Just wondering how long it takes to fill and empty this system? Thanks.

boofer
10-25-2007, 01:10 AM
I know it has been a while.

jbr383,

It does not take very long to fill the center or the bow sack; a few minutes. The rear sacks take quite a bit of time. We fill them to about 75% and I would gander that it takes 5 minutes for each sack to fill (10 minutes total).

boofer
10-25-2007, 01:11 AM
I know it has been a while.

jbr383,

It does not take very long to fill the center or the bow sack; a few minutes. The rear sacks take quite a bit of time. We fill them to about 75% and I would gander that it takes 5 minutes for each sack to fill (10 minutes total).

sand2snow22
07-05-2008, 03:26 AM
Where are the wake pics?

stu
07-31-2009, 03:22 PM
I ordered a 50' roll of the 3/4" spa hose.

If I had it to do all over again, I would of bit the bullet and got a hold of some of the hose that MC uses; both the 3/4" stuff and the 1". The flexible pvc (spa) hose is overkill. It is too rigid and the stock stuff would work just fine (not to mention it would have more "flexibility").
.


Anyone? How about "reinforced black bilge hose from west marine?" Flexible enough? Called Nashville MC dealer to price hose and they said just go to home depot and get something there.

Smoothie
07-31-2009, 04:44 PM
Does your center sack over fill lines come off the top of the bag on the same end? If so I was having problems with the over flow. So drilled holes higher in the ski locker so that the bag would not collapes on itself and not vent. I have an 02 xstar same boat of course maybe different bag. My bag sucks it leaks around the fill so my bilge fills up quick when filling my center bag.

boofer
08-12-2009, 12:32 AM
Smoothie, The overflow is on the front end of the bag. The fill is on the bottom on the aft portion. That is the way it came. I removed one of the overflow hoses to use with the front sack. I did add one way valves to all of the vent hoses. Now all of the bags are sucked dry when I empty them.

I had to cement the fittings on the center bag because mine kept popping off. I used some water proof Gorilla glue. They have worked perfectly ever since. I only glued the fitting that is attached to the bag. So, I can still remove the bag. I just cannot remove the )male) fitting that is on the bag.