More Dealer Woes.

[Utahfoiler]

Dealer problems. Utah watersports.
My boat 05 X-30 MCX has ran fine with no problems.

I took it into my dealer for the 100 hour service. I had an appointment on Wednesday 8/1 and they said that it would be done on Thursday. I called on Thursday and they were waiting on a fuel filter. Friday they get the fuel filter and did not start on the boat until 4:00 pm on Friday. I have told them many times that I want the boat for the weekend. They said it would not be done until Monday. That was unacceptable to me so I had them stop and put it back together so I could pick it up.

When we went out to ski on Saturday, the heater core was leaking all over the place and it was fine before. I took the boat back in on Tuesday for them to finish the 100 service. The finished it and replaced the heater core, but charged me for the replace heater core even though that it worked fine before they had it. I picked it up and took it out today. I am planning on going to Lake Powell next week and wanted to make sure that everything was working fine before I got all the way down to Lake Powell. I am glad that I did. It ran fine today for about 5 hours then while I was pulling someone the engine sputtered and died. It would not restart. I called the dealer and walked through some things, but still would not start. They think that it is the fuel pump. They said that it would not be under warranty. This is unacceptable to me since it was working fine until they did the 100 hour service on it. The problem is they were not able to finish the 100 server the first time since they were waiting for the fuel filter. They obviously messed something up when they changed it. I had never ran out of gas and it never had any problems until the dealer did the service. I have 310 hours on my boat now.

The dealer has said that they will try to order a new fuel pump on Monday and overnight it. I leave for Powell on Wednesday. The question is will the fix it in time, and what they will do about the warranty.

Just my rant.

[bigmac]

Neither the fuel pump nor the heater core are covered under the 1 year warranty. The heater core leakage is a known problem from HeaterCraft and THEY will send you a new core under warranty, but MasterCraft can't - not their heater, not their warranty after the first year. I can't imagine anything that the dealer could do to cause a heater core leak, I doubt that they were responsible, and IMHO having that particular problem occur while it was in their possession wouldn't automatically make their problem.

The fuel pump - that's different, but I'm not sure how...the question is whether something they did with the fuel pump reassembly during the aborted fuel filter installation contributed to the problem, assuming it is indeed the fuel pump. Sounds like a reasonable, adult sit-down with the dealer is in order about that problem, but MasterCraft has known issues with their in-tank fuel pumps failing prematurely.

[WakeSeeky]

Yikes, what lousy luck, especially before a trip. Last summer/fall we had the exact same two things happen to us on our '05 MCX X-30. I can sympathize, both failures happened with no warning at all.

Heater core went first, middle of the day out on the lake. "Huh. Wonder why the bilge pump is running?" Because we had extra money lying around, apparently.

The fuel pump sometimes just up and fails, I'm told. :rolleyes: That's what happened to us, I was pulling someone & it died. We've never run it out of gas or put off scheduled maintenance or anything like that. When we took it in, I was told it's a fairly common failure. Everything I've read on here about fuel pump problems leads me to believe that is indeed the case. That's not a real happy thought when you're looking at $400+ worth of fuel pump, I really feel your pain.

Good luck, I hope you get everything fixed before your Powell trip.

[wgwollet]

Wow:

To think that the heater core and fuel pump is a common problem concerns me very much. I have a 230 with the MCX but low hours, I too plan a trip. $400 bucks is that just the pump? no labor?

"MasterCraft has known issues with their in-tank fuel pumps failing prematurely" quote form Big Mac. What years? Has it been fixed? This is the same pump that GM uses and it lasts longer then that, what gives here?

Also, do all boats have a heater core is it standard on the 230?

[bigmac]

Wow:

To think that the heater core and fuel pump is a common problem concerns me very much. I have a 230 with the MCX but low hours, I too plan a trip. $400 bucks is that just the pump? no labor?

"MasterCraft has known issues with their in-tank fuel pumps failing prematurely" quote form Big Mac. What years? Has it been fixed? This is the same pump that GM uses and it lasts longer then that, what gives here?

Also, do all boats have a heater core is it standard on the 230?

Search on "fuel pump" here - you'll get a picture of the scope of the issue. The problem appears to be in the design of their in-tank electric pump up until AFAIK 2005. It has been advised by at least one dealer that posts here that you are taking your pump's life in your hands if you run the boat below about 1/2 tank of fuel, and especially if you run the boat out of gas.

No, it's not the same pump design as GM - the USCG had too much input into MasterCraft's design, and anyway, GM's in-tank fuel pump has a higher-than-expected failure rate too. The MasterCraft pump does apparently use some GM parts, or at least parts than can be bought at GM dealers.

No, only boats that have hot-air heaters have a heater core..if you have a heater, you're in HeaterCraft's higher-than-normal failure range. That also is an often-discussed problem, here and most other wakeboat forums.

[PendO]

replacing the fuel filter on the current version of an mc fuel pump is not necessary at any service interval (if you look at the pump you will understand that the filter only "filters" the fuel if you run it to 1/4 or less, otherwise it just dumps in the side of the cage) ... as far as the fuel pump failing after they replaced the filter ... way too coincidental ...

[limegreen]

I too own a MC and live in SLC area. I have been to Utah Watersports three times. I will never go again, period. I buy parts from MC of Charlotte and do the work myself.

The first time I went for service I needed a heater install, and added an oil change at the last minute. When I went to pick it up they had forgotten,...the heater.

It only went down from there. Last time I was in there I couldn't get them to take my money for misc stuff in the proshop.

Pathetic, arrogant,...

Other boat lines will pull ahead around here if this is not fixed.

A friend bought an X45 brand new and they treat him like pond scum too. I thought it was just me...

:o

[JimN]

You need to send a letter to MC about this. Details, documentation, accuracy and a cool head are needed for something like this.

[limegreen]

You need to send a letter to MC about this. Details, documentation, accuracy and a cool head are needed for something like this.

I could do that. I have a pretty cool head now, months later. At the time I was a little more agitated. Upper management seems a little untouchable at that store too...I tried to visit with them about my experience, but I couldn't ever get in to see them...

[beatle78]

hmmm... I thought the problem with the fuel pumps dieing prematurely had to do with them overheating a.k.a running out of fuel.

Is it possible that the dealer turn the fuel pump on when it was out of the tank and that caused the failure?

Just brainstorming here.....

anyway, the heatercore doesn't sounds like something the dealer did, but I know that heatercraft had some issues with their cores leaking.

The fuel pump dieing does sound a bit fishy to me.

[bigmac]

hmmm... I thought the problem with the fuel pumps dieing prematurely had to do with them overheating a.k.a running out of fuel.


Yes, overheating. That can happen from running out of gas, or from the fuel filter becoming plugged (it's a 10 micron filter) so that there's not enough fuel flow. The filter filters the last 1/2 - 1/4 tank of fuel, so if you're constantly running with a fuel level less than that, the filter is constantly filtering the fuel. If there's any crap in the tank - dirt, fuel tank shavings, etc - then the fuel filter can become plugged, the fuel flow decreases, the pump overheats, the impeller fries, and you're out $400 plus the embarassment of being towed off the lake.

[Utahfoiler]

I want to put pressure on them to fix my boat before Wednesday. Their service is lacking right now. This is a chance for them to shine. If they get my boat done before I go to Powell I will be praising their service department, but if it is not done in time. I will be telling everyone I know about what a lousy service department they have. It is a chance for them to prove themselves.

Also, right now I have no trust in them. Whether they caused the fuel pump to fail or not I don't know. It is to coincidental that it happed so quickly. They would need to own up to it and keep me as a happy customer, or I will never go there again.

I have been doing the oil changes myself because of the service department and the prices they charge. I just did not want to do the 100 hour service myself. It looks like that if I want a job done right, I will do it myself.

[beatle78]

I have been doing the oil changes myself because of the service department and the prices they charge. I just did not want to do the 100 hour service myself. It looks like that if I want a job done right, I will do it myself.

You couldn't have said it better yourself. You can spend 8 hours on a 4 hour job and make sure it's all done the right way. A service dept is a business and they can't do that. It still doesn't excuse dealers from hiding their mistakes.

Our VP at work said, "it's not about the mistakes you make, it's how you deal with them when they happen"

[JimN]

Spending 8 hours on a 4 hour job is wasting 4 hours. Checking it three times is a waste if it was done right the first time and if mistakes are caught more than once, whoever did the work shouldn't be doing that job. If it's the first time for someone doing that job, there's no guarantee that it'll be done right, either.

One thing that really cuts into a tech's productivity, concentration and work quality is interruptions. A good service manager will just about eliminate all interruptions for their techs. This is hard to do, but makes a huge difference. If you get a chance to be in the shop for any amount of time, make a mental note about how many interruptions there are and whether they're a waste of someone's time, or not.

If the management is inaccessible, ask for the general manager. He's generally the top of the day-to-day food chain and should be made aware of any customer issues that haven't been resolved. If nobody at the dealership wants to put you in contact with them, it's not very hard to do some digging to find out who they are (D&B or the NMMA). Also, find out how recent the tech's training is (all of them).

I don't generally answer questions on boats newer than 2001 unless the systems I worked on are still current (TBI) or the info was covered in the last sessions I attended because I don't have the hands-on training for them. If a dealer has techs working on new models without being trained in their system logic and diagnostic techniques, it's wasting time, your money (out of warranty), MC's money (under warranty) and increasing the chance of doing some kind of damage to the boat. If the dealer tried to save money by sending one or two people to training so they could come back and teach the others, it won't work because not everyone is a good teacher and they usually won't get the chance to go over the material again until after winterization/storage season has passed. By that time, a lot of the info has already "left the building".

"Whether they caused the fuel pump to fail or not I don't know. It is to coincidental that it happed so quickly. They would need to own up to it and keep me as a happy customer, or I will never go there again."

For the sake of conversation, what if they did everything "by the book" and made no mistakes? Is it fair for you to demand that they "own up to it" if they didn't do anything wrong?

Is it possible that the filter had a problem, was mis-shipped or labelled wrong? The filter elements pass different sizes and if a 5 micron filter was installed, that might explain what caused the pump's failure.

Rather than assume something that may not have happened, a frank discussion with the service manager is a good idea. Ask the questions that you want answers to, even if you don't think the manager wants to answer them. People make mistakes. Realizing one if it was made, admitting it and making it right are what separates the bad service shops from the good or great. Explain to them that their reputation isn't what it could be. Being short-handed (or technicians lacking training) isn't a customer issue, it's a management issue. It becomes a customer problem when being short-handed causes mistakes, shoddy workmanship and scheduling conflicts. Then, nobody wins.

[WakeSeeky]

hmmm... I thought the problem with the fuel pumps dieing prematurely had to do with them overheating a.k.a running out of fuel.



Running out of gas is definitely a no-no, but we proved it's certainly not the only thing that causes fuel pump failure. We never ever EVER ran even close to out of gas, it's a very rare day when we even get to 1/2 tank down, let alone lower. I don't remember the exact hours on the boat when we had the failure, it was under 300. When I asked the service manager if he frequently saw failures under 300 hours, he just grimaced and nodded. :(

The $400 I mentioned is ballpark... I know it was more than that but I don't remember exactly, I'd have to look it up. The dealer did their best to take care of us, but it's not a cheap failure.

[limegreen]

Spending 8 hours on a 4 hour job is wasting 4 hours. Checking it three times is a waste if it was done right the first time and if mistakes are caught more than once, whoever did the work shouldn't be doing that job. If it's the first time for someone doing that job, there's no guarantee that it'll be done right, either.

One thing that really cuts into a tech's productivity, concentration and work quality is interruptions. A good service manager will just about eliminate all interruptions for their techs. This is hard to do, but makes a huge difference. If you get a chance to be in the shop for any amount of time, make a mental note about how many interruptions there are and whether they're a waste of someone's time, or not.

If the management is inaccessible, ask for the general manager. He's generally the top of the day-to-day food chain and should be made aware of any customer issues that haven't been resolved. If nobody at the dealership wants to put you in contact with them, it's not very hard to do some digging to find out who they are (D&B or the NMMA). Also, find out how recent the tech's training is (all of them).

I don't generally answer questions on boats newer than 2001 unless the systems I worked on are still current (TBI) or the info was covered in the last sessions I attended because I don't have the hands-on training for them. If a dealer has techs working on new models without being trained in their system logic and diagnostic techniques, it's wasting time, your money (out of warranty), MC's money (under warranty) and increasing the chance of doing some kind of damage to the boat. If the dealer tried to save money by sending one or two people to training so they could come back and teach the others, it won't work because not everyone is a good teacher and they usually won't get the chance to go over the material again until after winterization/storage season has passed. By that time, a lot of the info has already "left the building".

"Whether they caused the fuel pump to fail or not I don't know. It is to coincidental that it happed so quickly. They would need to own up to it and keep me as a happy customer, or I will never go there again."

For the sake of conversation, what if they did everything "by the book" and made no mistakes? Is it fair for you to demand that they "own up to it" if they didn't do anything wrong?

Is it possible that the filter had a problem, was mis-shipped or labelled wrong? The filter elements pass different sizes and if a 5 micron filter was installed, that might explain what caused the pump's failure.

Rather than assume something that may not have happened, a frank discussion with the service manager is a good idea. Ask the questions that you want answers to, even if you don't think the manager wants to answer them. People make mistakes. Realizing one if it was made, admitting it and making it right are what separates the bad service shops from the good or great. Explain to them that their reputation isn't what it could be. Being short-handed (or technicians lacking training) isn't a customer issue, it's a management issue. It becomes a customer problem when being short-handed causes mistakes, shoddy workmanship and scheduling conflicts. Then, nobody wins.

I am not willing to be this objective with this particular store. I have wasted too many (1 hour one way) trips to and from and all the mental anguish just isn't worth it for me. This is supposed to be FUN!!

I will work on my MC myself, or take it to another brands service dept., or buy another brand. So far I have been able to take care of most things myself. Plus it teaches you alot about the boat when struggle through on your own.

[limegreen]

I want to put pressure on them to fix my boat before Wednesday. Their service is lacking right now. This is a chance for them to shine. If they get my boat done before I go to Powell I will be praising their service department, but if it is not done in time. I will be telling everyone I know about what a lousy service department they have. It is a chance for them to prove themselves.

Also, right now I have no trust in them. Whether they caused the fuel pump to fail or not I don't know. It is to coincidental that it happed so quickly. They would need to own up to it and keep me as a happy customer, or I will never go there again.

I have been doing the oil changes myself because of the service department and the prices they charge. I just did not want to do the 100 hour service myself. It looks like that if I want a job done right, I will do it myself.

Let us know how it comes out! I will be very interested since I live here! If you find somebody decent to talk to let me know who please!!

[limegreen]

I want to put pressure on them to fix my boat before Wednesday. Their service is lacking right now. This is a chance for them to shine. If they get my boat done before I go to Powell I will be praising their service department, but if it is not done in time. I will be telling everyone I know about what a lousy service department they have. It is a chance for them to prove themselves.

Also, right now I have no trust in them. Whether they caused the fuel pump to fail or not I don't know. It is to coincidental that it happed so quickly. They would need to own up to it and keep me as a happy customer, or I will never go there again.

I have been doing the oil changes myself because of the service department and the prices they charge. I just did not want to do the 100 hour service myself. It looks like that if I want a job done right, I will do it myself.

What does your boat look like and where do you go? I spend alot of time at East Canyon...

[rodltg2]

i read somewhere on here how too fix the fuel pump issue yourself and save money. well i followed the instructions and did it in about 20 minutes with a total cost of $66 . it failed from running out of gas on my 01 ps190. i thought i was screwed and have to wait for the dealer to fix. did it myself and was out on the water the next day.

[Utahfoiler]

What does your boat look like and where do you go? I spend alot of time at East Canyon...

I go to east Canyon a lot. I was there on Saturday when I suddenly became stranded. I have a blue and white X-30. You will notice me very easily, I have 2 sky ski's on the tower and an Air sling.

[limegreen]

I go to east Canyon a lot. I was there on Saturday when I suddenly became stranded. I have a blue and white X-30. You will notice me very easily, I have 2 sky ski's on the tower and an Air sling.

oh yea i have seen you twice

my little family loves to watch your tricks (impressive) and my wife still has no idea how that thing works

mine is the lime green x9 I sat on the north end in a protected cove with you and another x30 saturday

i have a 4 year old and a 6 year old that wakeboard so we have a good time

is that like a spring loaded thing on your tower for the sky skis?

[Utahfoiler]

It helps a lot on the sky ski. You can also use it for wakeboarding. It give you more line tension on take off and a bump when you land. It is consistent not like a stretchy rope.

[PendO]

I could do that. I have a pretty cool head now, months later. At the time I was a little more agitated. Upper management seems a little untouchable at that store too...I tried to visit with them about my experience, but I couldn't ever get in to see them...

they must be up here in spokane at their new 2M+ dealership on I-90:)

[Utahfoiler]

Well I must say that I am impressed. I will be going to Powell. My dealer came through and fixed my boat. It was the fuel pump that went out. I had it in today and they fixed it today under warranty. I know that I was pressuring them to get it done today so I could leave for Powell tomorrow and they did a great job at it.

[WakeSeeky]

Well I must say that I am impressed. I will be going to Powell. My dealer came through and fixed my boat. It was the fuel pump that went out. I had it in today and they fixed it today under warranty. I know that I was pressuring them to get it done today so I could leave for Powell tomorrow and they did a great job at it.

That is great news!! Enjoy your trip and feel free to bring back pictures! :D