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View Full Version : Fuel Pump Problem - 05 X-10 350 MCX


Flyer
08-11-2007, 10:12 PM
Hey Guys,

Boat died out on the water today. Dealer suggests from the symptoms,
(Engine turns over, fuel in tank, all other items seem ok), that the fuel pump has failed.

It seems correct. Has anyone changed a fuel pump? Seems straight forward.
What should be the general cost for a new pump?

Thanks for any input.
220 hours on the engine, works very well otherwise.

Steve

JimN
08-11-2007, 11:02 PM
How far are you from a dealer and why do you want to do it yourself?

bigmac
08-12-2007, 12:38 AM
I agree, it seems straightforward, and it should be safe if you are knowledgable about basic safety in working with fuel systems.

Your dealer should be able to get you a fuel pump, or if not him, you could get one shipped from places like Rambo Marine, MasterCraft of Charlotte, Bay Area Water Sports. Seems to me they're something like $450-$500.

Alternatively, the pump cartridge itself is replaceable. I think you can get details and part numbers by doing a search here on TT. Whatever, you should do that fuel pump search here. There is a lot of good information on the technique here in the archives.

Chicago190
08-12-2007, 02:41 AM
Open the engine cover and turn the key to the on position but don't crank it. You should hear a whining noise for a few seconds which is the fuel pump priming the system. Definately the easiest check of the fuel pump without checking the fuel pressure and other possibilities.

Flyer
08-12-2007, 03:50 AM
Ok, I'm about 3 hours from the nearest dealer and feel confident to replace the pump with the proper tool the dealer has offered to loan me for unhooking the fuel hose.

The pump is sounding very quiet except a slight whine (maybe a sheared shaft or impellor inside). Not loud enough or vibrating enough to ensure pumping of fuel.

Will check a buddy's X-Star (same engine) to see if the pump is the same and making the same noise.

Dealer is shipping another pump at $450, so thanks for the price check.

Will report further, thanks for the help.

Steve

bigmac
08-12-2007, 10:23 AM
Ok, I'm about 3 hours from the nearest dealer and feel confident to replace the pump with the proper tool the dealer has offered to loan me for unhooking the fuel hose.

The pump is sounding very quiet except a slight whine (maybe a sheared shaft or impellor inside). Not loud enough or vibrating enough to ensure pumping of fuel.

Will check a buddy's X-Star (same engine) to see if the pump is the same and making the same noise.

Dealer is shipping another pump at $450, so thanks for the price check.

Will report further, thanks for the help.

Steve

That fuel line disconnect tool is readily available from almost any autoparts store for about $10. FYI.

Reportedly, the usual failure is the impeller in the fuel pump. As the story goes, the fuel filter only filters the last 1/2 - 1/4 tank of fuel (depending on where they have the baffle set). The concept is apparently that the sediment and stuff that clogs fuel lines settles to the bottom and that's the only part that needs to be filtered. So, if you consistently run your tank down to 1/4 tank or less, you risk clogging the fuel filter. Since fuel is what cools the pump motor and impeller, those things are at risk for failure if that happens. Therefore, you can likely expect that you will be more at risk for fuel pump failure if you consistently run your boat with less than 1/2 tank of fuel.

A couple of people here have reported pulling their failed fuel pump unit and disassembling it, replacing the pump impeller and motor only, then reinstalling. The advantage to that is that it costs less, and the parts (Carter IIRC) are more readily available from local GM dealers.

JimN
08-12-2007, 10:30 AM
If you're going to replace parts without making sure they're actually bad, it will be an expensive lesson. Did you check the fuel pressure? Did you verify that the fuel pump relay is latching? Did you take a fuel sample to see if there's water in the gas? Did you check for RPM information getting to the ECM? Did you check for voltage and trigger signal at the injectors?

Sodar
08-12-2007, 10:34 AM
Therefore, you can likely expect that you will be more at risk for fuel pump failure if you consistently run your boat with less than 1/2 tank of fuel.

Jeez.... 1/2 a tank? I have been very anal about not touching a 1/4 tank, but trying to do a 1/2 on my 197 would give me less than 3 hours run time! I would be at the dock topping off with gas cans, more than on the lake skiing!! The manual says nothing below a 1/4 tank... is that wrong? :confused:

Flyer
08-12-2007, 08:52 PM
Geez, BIGMAC,

You are a way superior mechanic to me!
Great advice, thanks.

I think I will buy the tool, pull the pump with my brother (an excellent mechanic), and maybe try to repair it at the local GM dealer.

Great forum for this stuff, by the way.
Really appreciate the posts.

Will report further.
Steve

bigmac
08-12-2007, 10:52 PM
Jeez.... 1/2 a tank? I have been very anal about not touching a 1/4 tank, but trying to do a 1/2 on my 197 would give me less than 3 hours run time! I would be at the dock topping off with gas cans, more than on the lake skiing!! The manual says nothing below a 1/4 tank... is that wrong? :confused:Probably not. I actually meant to type 1/4 tank..sorry.

IIRC, there is a baffle on the fuel pump inlet that can be adjusted up and down, and determines at what point fuel starts getting filtered by the fuel filter. I've seen speculation that the problems seen in the 2003-2005 fuel pumps were due to a greater-than-usual amount of debris left in the tank from the tank's manufacture in those years. It's roto-molded, and there's a lot of drilling and machining done after it comes out of the mold. If any of that crap (or other stuff like dust/dirt) isn't cleaned out before install, you have the capability of plugging up the filter. It's a pretty fine filter, 10 microns, and it takes very little to plug it enough to impair fuel flow, which impairs pump cooling.

bigmac
08-12-2007, 11:08 PM
Geez, BIGMAC,

You are a way superior mechanic to me!
Great advice, thanks.

I think I will buy the tool, pull the pump with my brother (an excellent mechanic), and maybe try to repair it at the local GM dealer.

Great forum for this stuff, by the way.
Really appreciate the posts.

Will report further.
SteveYou'll need a torque wrench capable of reading inch-pounds. The hex bolts get torqued to 45 inch-pounds in a criss-cross pattern (according to my sources - but ask your dealer). Do this with the fuel tank pretty empty - if it's distorted too much, you may have trouble getting the holes to line up.

Before disconnecting the lines, don't forget to depress the Schrader valve on the fuel rail to depressurize the line (wrap a rag around it), and do make sure you have a pan to put the fuel pump into when you pull it - it will drip a lot of fuel. And..no smoking while you're doing this stuff...:rolleyes:

Flyer
08-13-2007, 02:15 PM
Ok, Bigmac,

Thanks for the advice.

Steve

Flyer
08-13-2007, 04:07 PM
Hey Bigmac,

I just talked to my GM dealer, and could you please give more details on the "Carter IIRC" pump or whatever that means.
Thanks

Sodar
08-13-2007, 04:11 PM
IIRC means "If I Recall Correctly"

rodltg2
08-13-2007, 04:19 PM
I did it myself for $66. 01 ps 190. no special tools. followed ther intructions from an earlier thread on this forum.

ski_king
08-13-2007, 04:20 PM
.........the fuel filter only filters the last 1/2 - 1/4 tank of fuel (depending on where they have the baffle set). ............Therefore, you can likely expect that you will be more at risk for fuel pump failure if you consistently run your boat with less than 1/2 tank of fuel........

I have been reading these post regarding fuel pum failures because of low fuel. I can understand it happening when running out, but at the 1/4 to 1/2 tank level? Come on............
A new 214 has a 40 gallon tank. Do you mean to tell me I would have to keep $30 to $60 worth of fuel in my tank I could not use?
And on top of that, if you do not have the 08 filler, you need to keep it about 5 gallons below full to prevent a overflow when filling.

Sounds to me like a properly shaped gas tank would help solve the issue.

Just my :twocents:

bigmac
08-13-2007, 05:22 PM
Hey Bigmac,

I just talked to my GM dealer, and could you please give more details on the "Carter IIRC" pump or whatever that means.
Thanks
If I recall correctly, the pump body is a Carter. It cross references to AC Delco EP356.

Let me disclaim here...I'm repeating in this thread what I've seen written here and elsewhere about this recurrent issue with MasterCraft fuel pumps as well as from some personal experience, but I don't personally endorse or recommend to anyone else anything other than a MasterCraft OEM fuel pump installed by a dealer. You have to know that JimN may be right - incomplete diagnostic measures may result in unnecessary fuel pump change, and that working with fuel systems can be dangerous. Note especially that a non-MasterCraft fuel pump cartridge may result in a different fuel pressure to your engine that could conceivably damage it. Before undertaking any of this, I strongly recommend you read ALL of the threads on this subject, and talk at length with your MasterCraft dealer.

Here are a few of the threads I found doing a simple search...

http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=17795&highlight=carter+fuel

http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=15770&highlight=carter+fuel

http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=10568&highlight=carter+fuel

bigmac
08-13-2007, 05:29 PM
I have been reading these post regarding fuel pum failures because of low fuel. I can understand it happening when running out, but at the 1/4 to 1/2 tank level? Come on............
A new 214 has a 40 gallon tank. Do you mean to tell me I would have to keep $30 to $60 worth of fuel in my tank I could not use?
And on top of that, if you do not have the 08 filler, you need to keep it about 5 gallons below full to prevent a overflow when filling.

Sounds to me like a properly shaped gas tank would help solve the issue.

Just my :twocents:My first fuel pump died when the boat had about four hours on it, as soon as it went to about 3/8 tank. Forensic dissection afterward found plastic pieces of all sizes all over the fuel tank, and other tiny little crap (looking with a hand lens) in the fuel filter substantially occluding it. At least one well-known and very reputable dealer has posted here and on his own web site about the 1/4 tank rule, and I'm a believer. So much so, that four of us MasterCraft owners here on my lake have discussed chipping in to purchase a spare fuel pump to have sitting around for when the next one dies.

Flyer
08-13-2007, 11:14 PM
Ok,

So exactly where is the fuel filter?

bigmac
08-14-2007, 08:51 AM
Ok,

So exactly where is the fuel filter?

On the fuel pump assembly in the tank. It seems like a bad arrangement to me - I've always thought they should have a big-particle filter on the pump and a fine in-line filter downstream where it could be changed easily, and where blockage wouldn't cause the pump to overheat. That's pretty much how the do it in cars with in-tank pumps, although it may well be the Coast Guard that requires the particular arrangement that MC uses.

JimN
08-14-2007, 10:36 AM
The in-tank filter is good down to 10 microns and any other filters in the boat are good down to 5 microns. The one in the tank is also for eliminating water from getting into the line and then, to the motor but I don't think a fuel/water separator will handle the high pressure form these pumps.

bigmac
08-14-2007, 03:06 PM
.....but I don't think a fuel/water separator will handle the high pressure form these pumps.

2004 and later MCX engines want a minimum fuel pressure of 60 psi at keyup. If I were replacing just the pump mechanism with a part from GM, I'd want to make sure it was capable of that pressure.

.

Flyer
08-14-2007, 09:52 PM
Fuel Pump Change Sucess! (I think!)

Ok guys, the new pump is in and the engine fired up right away on the trailer.
No water so I shut it down immediately (only ran about 5 seconds), but all seems ok.
Now here's the tricky question:
On the fuel filter itself is a small black tube running about 2/3 up the outside of the housing. The top of the tube on the old pump is unclamped (ie. not blocked).
The top of the tube on the new pump is blocked and banded.
I wonder why the difference?

Also I will try to post some photos soon.
Steve

BuoyChaser
07-16-2008, 04:25 PM
Reportedly, the usual failure is the impeller in the fuel pump. As the story goes, the fuel filter only filters the last 1/2 - 1/4 tank of fuel (depending on where they have the baffle set). The concept is apparently that the sediment and stuff that clogs fuel lines settles to the bottom and that's the only part that needs to be filtered. So, if you consistently run your tank down to 1/4 tank or less, you risk clogging the fuel filter. Since fuel is what cools the pump motor and impeller, those things are at risk for failure if that happens. Therefore, you can likely expect that you will be more at risk for fuel pump failure if you consistently run your boat with less than 1/2 tank of fuel.
This is a very important test, to fill the tank above 1/2, to insure it is not just your filter that is causing the problem. Do this first, then test the fuel pump flow.