New High End Ski Help

[tschultz80]

Hey Everyone,
I am looking into buying a new ski, and I need some help and opinions to decide. The skis I am looking at include the Goode 9800, HO Monza, or the Connelly F1. I have not ridden any of them, and will demo the one I decide to buy just as precautionary act. If I really hate it I will return it and try a different one. I have just enought money to lay down on a ski and bindings, but the demo programs can be a hassle, and expensive as well, so I want to get a pretty good idea of what I want before I demo. I ski currently at 22 off, at 34 mph, without a course, but I am not at the climax of my waterskiing career, and plan to be skiing the course and around 28 off and up, and idealy at 36 mph, and this ski needs to last me for at least a decade, :cool: so it should fit my needs for the future years too :) . So any personal opinions between these skis, or if you have tried/ demoed two or all of these skis, comparisons and reviews according to you would be great. I currently ski on the HO Triumph, but it is just to slow for me :o and really time for a new ski..
Thanks a lot everyone! Any additional imformation would be great!!

[rodltg2]

do you have course experience yet?? if not , dont expect to go out at 22off @ 34 . you will most likely be at 15off@ 30 for awhile. with that said you may not wnat to jump right on a high end ski like those mentioned. however the D3 makes great high end skiis that are very forgivable and will grow with your improvements.

if you do have course experience and are already running 22@34 then the d3 nomad rc is a great ski to go with.

[jsc0324]

Waterskitests.com Written by the son of Jack Horton (hortonlakes.com) and owner of Carbon Fins. Lots of opinions for you to choose from. Not that there's anything wrong the opinions here! Good luck.

[WAT8415]

I just picked up a 2006 D3 Nomad last week and I really like it. I have just started running the course this year so I am skiing 15 off @ 32. My old ski was the F1X and I definitely noticed a big difference in acceleration and DECELLERATION! I have only have two days on the D3 but I am loving it.

[tschultz80]

do you have course experience yet?? if not , dont expect to go out at 22off @ 34 . you will most likely be at 15off@ 30 for awhile. with that said you may not wnat to jump right on a high end ski like those mentioned. however the D3 makes great high end skiis that are very forgivable and will grow with your improvements.

if you do have course experience and are already running 22@34 then the d3 nomad rc is a great ski to go with.

Oh I don't expect to jump on the course running 22@34 off don't worry, but I've heard that you don't need to be super high end skier to enjoy a high end ski, and I'm going to be using this ski for at least 10 years so I want to buy a ski that will last me too.;) I'm pretty sure I want either the Monza or Goode 9800, but I am also open to the F1.:)

[tschultz80]

Ya I've been to waterskitests.com and liked all the information, but just wanted to narrow down to the Goode 9800 and the Monza, so I can pick between those two. On waterskitests.com the 9800 was listed as a better ski, but I also know a lot of people the prefer the Monza over the Goode so I'm just lookin for some more opinions/ user reviews on these to skis and comparisons. Thanks!

[tex]

Can you say, Get ready to be humbled? I wish you luck and please tell us the truth!

[tschultz80]

as I said before, this ski is to last me a long time, and I know a lot of people who aren't brilliant skiers who enjoy high end skis.

[tex]

T=Don't get me wrong-I wish you nothing but the best. Most slalom skies bite off way too much ski before they are ready. There is progression. Just because it works for Wade, Jaimie, or Ump, doesn't mean you will ski your best on it now. That does not mean that you may not be skiing on it at 38 off later, just realize that progression is the key! Great luck to you!

[tschultz80]

thanks tex, and I'm definitely gonna have take time to get used to such a more advanced ski than my current Triumph

do you have any experience with either of those skis?

[tex]

No, due to injuries I've not slalomed a lot in the past couple of years. I do beleive what I write so I ride a CR7. I hear the F1 is very fast and responsive, the Monza is great once you tune it to your style, and I've never heard anybody complain about their Goode. Now realize, that even though I don't slalom much, I am president of a great ski club that is filled with a bunch of great anal slalom skiers!

[rodltg2]

remember the goode has no inserts to be sure the binders go where you want them the first time

[JohnE]

Don't buy a ski today to bring you to where you plan to be in 10 years! If you're future ability will allow you to ski a monza or F1, then you are nowhere near that today! Drop $400 or so on something less, and in a few years buy up. If you are not running 22 - 28 off consistently, you are out of your league with the ski's you mentioned. I've never been vey arrogant, but started skiing the course this year and it is very humbling none the less. drop $400 or so for an F1X or a Sys 8 and have at it. By the time you're ready to move up the Monza, Goode, or Nomad, and all will be replaced with improved equipment. What was the hot ski in 1997?

No offense meant. JMO. Btw, I am struggling with running 15 off at 34.

[WAT8415]

Just to add a bit of info. My old roommate in college skied competively and that was the last time I skied until last year when my cousin's husband took me out behind his 93 205. I caught the bug again and in the fall picked up my PS 190. He has also skied competively so I have a great personal coach, plus not skiing for over 10 years I have started over and I have to tell you, the F1X was way more forgiving when I break form than the D3, I skied his HO Phantom and I was humbled and I suffered a shoulder injury that made me take about 5 days off. I am fortunate that I get to ski at least 6 days a week with my personal coach. I still have my F1X in the boat and I may go back to it if I keep breaking form because I do not want to revert back to my bad habits that have taken me most of the summer to correct. I just couldnt pass up a Nomad for $400. I would suggest holding off purchasing a "New" ski if you are planning on buying retail and keep your eye out for a used one.

[kpickett]

For your level, I'd really recommend checking out an Obrien Synchro. It's a great ski. It's slightly wider, so it will work much better while you're learning the course. The "high end" skis don't really come alive until you're up around 34 - they really bog down at 30 or so. My buddy has been skiing the Synchro and he's starting to really rip with it. One of the Big Dawg skiers runs the Synchro into 41 off, so don't think it's a beginner ski - it just works well at the slower speeds for learning the course.

I used to ski on a Goode. I'm on the Monza right now. Neither are very forgiving, and it's taken me a long time to get the Monza dialed in for my skiing. I think you'd be frustrated skiing them slowly while learning the course.

[Jesus_Freak]

....I ski currently at 22 off, at 34 mph, without a course...

Those numbers mean absolutely nothing outside the course, as you have seen in others comments.

...Most slalom skies bite off way too much ski before they are ready....

I know I did. :o In hindsight, I probably would not have a monza now.

[rodltg2]

the technology of skis latley have been advancing rapidly over the last few years. although i dont know how much better they can get, i cant imagine skiing on what i have now in 10 years. i dont know what a skis lifetime is, but i know they do wear out. i plan on replacing evry other year.

[cbryan70]

i to have the fx1 and love it and so does everyone else that is skiing behind it. It is a forgiving ski when not skiing in perfect form but is fast enough for you to get some good passes through the course.

[h2oskifreak]

For what it is worth, I skied a ski (Mastewrcraft) for too long and technology passed me by. I went to H.O. (Vengeance), then F1 and hated it, back to a H.O. Mnza and I'm into 35' and was never there before. Way too much ski if you arn't deep in the course. Nobody has suggested buying a pre-owned ski to get cost down and take the sting away from buying up later. I agree, skis will be better in 3-5 years to say nothing about 10 yrs. Good luck and tear'em up.

[tschultz80]

thanks for all the replies and responses everyone, it's nice to get some advice -- I have run the course before, at ski school, and I could do it consistantly at around 15 off at 30-32 mph, so I know how different the course is than free skiing. I currently ski on the HO triumph, and it's a great wide-bodied ski, so if I ever get the chance to learn the course better(which I hope I get to do)I may go back that ski for a while. But the lake I am on doesn't allow courses and there are not any courses nearby that I could easily access:( So this ski is for pure fun and enjoyment, and for me that's what skiing is all about. I am ready to buy a new ski, and I am really interested in a high end ski. I don't want to go through the hassle of buying a cheaper ski, because the Triumph i am on right now was about 600-700 with bindings, and another ski would be somewhere around there. I've heard this before but is it true that you don't have to be a high end skier to enjoy and have a high end ski? I'm ready to step up my performance, and new equipment could definitely help. I've read reviews on the Monza and Goode 9800, but with such a big investment on a ski, user opinions on these two skis would be great. Thanks again!

[rodltg2]

by buying one of those skis your just making it harder on yourself to advance. sure you be ablt to ski on it. especially if you get the monza . anyone whos got one will tell you it takes alot of time dialing it in.

if you want a monza or goode, knock yourself out. but if you want to improve get something else. i would recommend the d3 x5. you can still spend that 1000 bucks and youll have a ski that is stable , ready to go out of the box. and can take you as far as you can get.

[Jesus_Freak]

...So this ski is for pure fun and enjoyment, and for me that's what skiing is all about...

Skiing for enjoyment and not a boxing match with the course? I would never hear of such. :D :D

Sounds like you consistently skied the course before. Congratulations; you are better than I am.

Wish you the best, and keep us posted. I am watching and learning about potential methods of ski trading for me. Anyone want a monza?;)

[H20skeefreek]

JF, that's a shame you are thinking of ditching the Monza. Too bad you didn't know that at the beginning of the season, I would have been interested. But you could never get to me let my Sixam go now.

Tshultz, Here is my take. If you are free skiing, there is absolutely no point in buying a "high-end ski" it's nothing but a waste of $$. A high end ski only wants to turn, it doesn't want to ride in a straight line, which you frequently do in free skiing. If you were skiing the course, I'd stick with the triumph until you are waxing 30mph, then upgrade. That's what I did. I spent 2 years getting to 30mph on a HO Vengeance ASX, then I upgraded to an Sixam, and have now gotten into 34mph in a little over half the season and by the end I should be into 36mph. After I was consistent is when I bought the high end ski. I tried a more advanced ski in my first season in the course and it hurt me, literally. To answer your question.... A 16 year old kid CAN drive a Corvette, but ultimately he's wasted his (parents) money and is likely to get hurt or even kill people (hopefully this part isn't applicable). You'll be able to ski it, but there really isn't any point other than bragging that you ride a X ski. Oh, and I do know people that don't like their Goodes, a lot of them.

Anyway, the triumph is an AWESOME ski, stick with it and save the coin for later. I've seen Wade Cox skiing the course on a Triumph, so it's not "low-end".

[6ballsisall]

by buying one of those skis your just making it harder on yourself to advance. sure you be ablt to ski on it. especially if you get the monza . anyone whos got one will tell you it takes alot of time dialing it in.

if you want a monza or goode, knock yourself out. but if you want to improve get something else. i would recommend the d3 x5. you can still spend that 1000 bucks and youll have a ski that is stable , ready to go out of the box. and can take you as far as you can get.


Rod said it pretty darn good here. The pro level ski's are anything but forgiving. I have a Monza and I like it now. It was hard to get used too because it's all business, not an ounce of forgiving in it! If you aren't running the course with it then there are less expensive ski's that will more than serve your goals

[tex]

How long has it been since you've been in the course?
Take a look at used skis. Save yourself some $$$ and headbanging!

[André]

How long has it been since you've been in the course?
Take a look at used skis. Save yourself some $$$ and headbanging!
I think way too many peoples fell for the Monza hype when it came out.
If you're not skiing at least 34 mph in the course,then the Monza is not a good choice i think.JMO.
There is a lot of mid range skis that will help you more then skiing a Monza at 30 mph.Add the fact that the Monza NEEDS to be fine tune a lot more then other high end skis...
It's not a user friendly ski in my mind.
You said you're skiing 22-34 open water slalom.
It may take a while to run the course at those same numbers...
For what it's worth,i'm on a D3 ski and have always felt good on Dennis Kidder skis right of the box.Rod's idea of a X5 is a good suggestion...
Good luck!

[tschultz80]

hey thanks for your replies everyone--
I ski anywhere comfortably from 34-36 -any slower i feel "bogged down" and not fast enough-- and on the course that I was able to ski on this winter at ski school i could ski 15 off at 30 consistantly and could run quite a few buoys at 22 off. i am not planning to ski the course a lot more, unless a miracle happens and life permits me to do so, but i do enjoy ripping up the lake without one.
So as i take it, the Goode is more user friendly, and the Monza needs more fine tuning? More information would be great about these two skis!!!!!

You seem to be pushing me away from the Monza and Goode, is there a reason for it besides it might be a little advanced in the beginning?

Would the most advanced D3 ski be too advanced for me? You all seem to be leaning towards the D3s? Why weren't any D3s in the waterski tests at waterskimag.com or www.waterskitests.com? are they going out of style/ something wrong with them?

How about the system 8? How much of a difference between the monza/9800 and system 8 is there? How much of a difference between the triumph and monza/9800 is there, and what are those differences?

I am actaully pretty set on ordering a 9800, and I already did... but the order got messed up and they typed in the wrong credit card number, so there was a big delay, and then the boots I wanted were out of stock... so in the end I ended up canceling it altogether, and was going to wait until next year and finish this season out on my Triumph. I ski 34-36 and thats a speed that works good witht he 9800 as I understand it?

Would it really be sooo bad if I got the 9800 or monza or any high end ski? You all act like it would be a terrible choice, but couldn't it be a good choice?

In the end I'm pretty set on getting one of those skis, unless it's is a TERRIBLE choice, so if you have any opinions or what skis to steer clear from, or what skis you love, that would be great.

Thanks again everyone, its great to have a site like this to talk about something we all love.. skiing!

[tschultz80]

opening up a few more options... how much of a difference of there is there between the Goode 9800 and the D3 Nomad--- Would you guys recomment the Nomad over the 9800 and monza?? How about the system 8? Is the Nomad still very fast? a lot faster than the triumph? how much faster is the monza and the 9800 than the nomad? more information on the 9800, D3 nomad, Monza, and system 8 would be Grrreat! thanks

[tschultz80]

opening up a few more options... how much of a difference of there is there between the Goode 9800 and the D3 Nomad--- Would you guys recomment the Nomad over the 9800 and monza?? How about the system 8? Is the Nomad still very fast? a lot faster than the triumph? how much faster is the monza and the 9800 than the nomad? more information on the 9800, D3 nomad, Monza, and system 8 would be Grrreat! thanks

[rodltg2]

the d3 is no dog , marcus takes the x5 all the way down the line. i would suggest the x5 first. when i first rode the nomad i was unable to make it work for me. i rode the custom which you may want to consider, then the x5 then the nomad. at my club the d3 seems to be a the ski of choice. couple of goode and monzas as well. if your going to be mostly on open water i would'nt buy any of these skiis though. waste of money and time.

one more thing , dont worry about how fast the ski is. they are all plenty fast for you level.if its not fast enough , its you , not the ski

[tschultz80]

opening up a few more options... how much of a difference of there is there between the Goode 9800 and the D3 Nomad--- Would you guys recomment the Nomad over the 9800 and monza?? How about the system 8? Is the Nomad still very fast? a lot faster than the triumph? how much faster is the monza and the 9800 than the nomad? more information on the 9800, D3 nomad, Monza, and system 8 would be Grrreat! thanks

[tschultz80]

oops sorry i think i accidently pushed post reply more than once

[rodltg2]

i dont know if this is relevant or not butt...

when i was in flight school for my private pilot license there was this guy in my class with some deep pockets. he went out and bought himself some sort of 6 passenger piper . well the rest of the class went off and got their licenses in cessna 152's and this schmoe took like 2 more years.

[tschultz80]

the d3 is no dog , marcus takes the x5 all the way down the line. i would suggest the x5 first. when i first rode the nomad i was unable to make it work for me. i rode the custom which you may want to consider, then the x5 then the nomad. at my club the d3 seems to be a the ski of choice. couple of goode and monzas as well. if your going to be mostly on open water i would'nt buy any of these skiis though. waste of money and time.

one more thing , dont worry about how fast the ski is. they are all plenty fast for you level.if its not fast enough , its you , not the ski

I don't think that buying a high end ski is a bad idea or a waste of money or time. I AM buying a new high end ski, it is just a matter of which stick to buy. I did'nt say it was goingt o be not "fast enough" I would just like statistics about each ski, and how each compare to each other and what is different from each other

PLEASE help me distinguish the differences between the:
9800,MONZA,D3NOMAD,D3x5,SYSTEM8, and maybe F1X,F1


If you could list them from the top performing to the least performing, that would be aWeSoMe! and if you could give me some side by side comparisons, I would be in heaven!

Thanks

[tex]

TSC-Stop posting and go skiing! Have fun and don't overthink it!

[Brent]

I'd put the Sixam 2 point on that list ,it is a great short line ski that I have seen 15off 30mph skiers do well on. All the high end skis require fine tuning to get the most out of them & anyone of them can be a dog if not set-up properly & God send tuned to their potential . Try before you buy or it will be like pissing in the wind.:)

[H20skeefreek]

I just don't understand why you would be so set on buying one of these high end skis. It is a terrible idea to buy a ski for free skiing that won't ski in a straight line. If you aren't skiing the course, these are all terrible choices. Your triumph is about the best for doing what you are doing. You will not be happy with these other skis. It's like buying a formula 1 car for drag racing. It's stupid, and not the best for doing the task. You'd be happier with an old muscle car.

[kpickett]

PLEASE help me distinguish the differences between the:
9800,MONZA,D3NOMAD,D3x5,SYSTEM8, and maybe F1X,F1


I've skied all of these except the F1 and the System 8. I honestly think that the differences for me are in how the individual skis work with my own skiing style. The Goode, Monza, D3s are all plenty fast, and they all turn really well. I don't know why, but I couldn't get the Nomad or the X5 to turn for me. The Goode and the Monza both work really well for me, although they feel pretty radically different, and I didn't really like the F1X. I thought the F1X felt too flexible across the wake.

I chose the Monza over the Goode because I had a Goode break on me last year, and I didn't want to worry about breaking a $1000 ski and hurting myself. Plus, the lack of inserts really sucks. I constantly had to work on my old Goode binding screws. That said, I've struggled for a while to get the Monza tuned for my skiing. I've found that when I'm skiing in perfect position, the Monza rocks! It's really fast and it turns on a rail. BUT, when I'm out of position, especially on my offside - the ski bucks and all but throws me off. Since you're looking for a ski that's fun and fast and you don't really care about bouy counts, it may not be the ski for you. If you can try an X5, you might want to do that. It's a more forgiving ski - something that you want.

I still think you should consider a Synchro. It's a forgiving ski that really rocks. It's incredibly fun on open water, and it will take you through the course from 30 mph up to 41 off.

Kyle

[bdecker]

I would highly recommend the D3 X5. Everything I have heard says to stear clear of the Monza due to build issues, but I have really only spoken to two skiers that have had them (both have had 3+ skis in two seasons...) The F1 is a great ride, and the bargain of the bunch, but it is probably a little much for the level you have described. If you really want a 9800, F1, Monza, etc, you might consider a used x5 for a season or 2 before you drop $1000+. I've got a 66.5 in the garage which I would consider selling if you wanted it... My PB on the ski is 4 @35 (36 MPH), so it is a ski that you can grow with for a while.

[bdecker]

I suspect very few have taken the time to dial in all of these.... Having gone from the X5 to the F1, here are my observations.

1- X5 is much easier to hop on and ski well, very balanced, forgiving and plenty fast for shortline.
2- The F1 is faster, but it has taken me a long time to get used to. It generates great angle if you are really patient at the ball. Try to rush an onside turn, and you are going no where. If you are on it right, it is incredibly early for the next buoy.

The F1 is much more likely to dump you than the X5. I occasionally ski in open water, and have found the X5 more forgiving than the F1.

I know a number of Goode skiers, but none that are on the 9800 yet. I would love to try the Nomad RC, but it was way more expensive than my F1. Haven't had an HO since the "phantom", which I never skied all that well on. I do know a couple of women who ski pretty well on the Monza, but the F1 is the most popular tournament ski in NH, thanks to our local record holder!

If you ski any of these hard, they will probably not give you 10 years before breaking down. So, if the decade thing is something you are using to justify it to your wife, fine- just know that it will be more like 2 to 5 before the pitch starts again!

[bdecker]

PM if you want a great deal on an x5...

[tschultz80]

PM if you want a great deal on an x5...
What condition is your x5 in? What kind of deal would you be up for?

Thanks a lot for your help with the differences of those skis kyle and bdecker -- a few last questions
-is there a big difference between the Nomad and the 9800 or Monza? what differences do you know of/have you noticed?

-how much of a difference is there between the nomad and the x5(I think i remember the nomad only being $100 more than x5, so is there a significant difference, and what are the differences?)

thanks again!

[bdecker]

Skis like new. Repaired a handle pop in the tip, but it didn't impact performance at all. Check out pics on ski it again...

http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?topic=Search&postid=SIA04706

No experience with the Nomad, so I can't help you there.

[Ric]

I am gonna post a used-once HO triumph there. I like the ski, but I like my old Vengeance better.

PM me if yooz lookin for a triumph

[tschultz80]

Hey can you help me distinguish the differences between the D3 Nomad and the Monza and 9800? Also what is the difference between the Nomad and x5? The price is only 100 difference between nomad and x5, so what does that hundred dollars of difference include?

bdecker--if you are selling your x5, what are you going to ski on next?

Thanks

[tex]

This reminds me of when Erk first started hanging out and was trying to buy his 1st boat!

[tschultz80]

haha tex- I can imagine -- thanks everyone for all the help- I just wanna get a little bit more understanding about this stuff before I buy, because idk about you guys, but this is a fairly big purchase!

thanks everone

[tex]

haha tex- I can imagine -- thanks everyone for all the help- I just wanna get a little bit more understanding about this stuff before I buy, because idk about you guys, but this is a fairly big purchase!

thanks everone
It's a huge purchase. As I said before Good luck!

[tschultz80]

Would you guys recommend the H2Osmos' Demo program? If you have ever tried that details would be great;)

[bdecker]

Hey can you help me distinguish the differences between the D3 Nomad and the Monza and 9800? Also what is the difference between the Nomad and x5? The price is only 100 difference between nomad and x5, so what does that hundred dollars of difference include?

bdecker--if you are selling your x5, what are you going to ski on next?

Thanks

I am now on an F1 and just starting to get back to where I was on the X5. Some of it is probably due to a new baby and limited water time, and it is also a ski that seems to require patience in the turn, which has taken some time for me to adapt to. It is much better as the line gets shorter.

At some point, you just have to pick one and go with it. There will be an adjustment period regardless of which ski you pick. There is lots of info out there about how a ski is supposed to perform, but the reality is you won't know what works for you until you jump on it and try. At your level I wouldn't be too worried about buying the most expensive ski, rather get something that is a good performer, easy to turn, and relatively forgiving. This will allow you to develop good turns, rythm, and angle, which are key to advancing in the course. A ski setup for 38 off will likely not help you much at 15 or 22.

I would recommend a KD7000 or D3x5 as I have ridden both and I know either will take you way down the line, but also give you performance at the longer lengths. As for any of the other skis you ask about, I have the same marginal information that you have access too.

[tschultz80]

good luck on the new F1 bdecker!

The x5 is starting to interest me.. along with the Nomad- can anyone describe the differences between these two skis? And how much of a difference between the HO Triumph (what i ski on now) and the x5 or nomad is there?

[H20skeefreek]

I think that if you are going to buy a high end ski just to say that's what you are skiing, that you should buy a fisher (fischer) or a Warp7.

[BuoyChaser]

Oh I don't expect to jump on the course running 22@34 off don't worry, but I've heard that you don't need to be super high end skier to enjoy a high end ski
TSCHULTZ80 - A couple of questions to help with your decision:
1. What is your height and weight variance from start of season to end of season?
2. Have you skied the course? What ski and what speed/line length were you on?
3. What do you want to get from your new stick? - Free ski fun? Enter into course skiing? Tournaments? (average improvement in the course is 2-4mph increase or 2 line lengths per year)

from what i've been reading and having tried a variety of skis and talked to people who have been on different ones, if you're looking for something just fun then go with something that is considered a "SOFT SKI"...because it is forgiving in variable conditions (rough water vs smooth water)...most of the high ends skis (Fisher, Goode 9700/9800, F1, HO Monza, Sixam) have a high carbon content, therefore are stiff and have a very small sweet spot...D3's are high end skis, but they have a much softer flex (except the 2006 Nomad - trial and too stiff for most) so that's why the 2007 Nomad RC is a mix of the softer X5 and the stiffer D3...

H2Osmosis is the way to go on demos, same price or less than everyone else and you get charged $40/ski or bindings to demo, but then get to reapply that $40 back to your purchase, how about that...but you need to give your ski in my opinion at least a week to get a good feel for it...so much involved in watching your style, where the water is breaking on the ski to make some minor binding adjustments FIRST before playing with the stock fin settings...

i went from a 66" HO CDX (soft ski) which helped me get into 36-22 then went to a 68" HO Phantom (stiff ski) which i never could be consistent on, then moved to 67" Phantom (still stiff) and still would sometimes run 36-22 but the ski would frustrate me...i tried some of the earlier F1's but every year they've changed them, finally coming up with a good bevel and consistency in their core for the 2007 model (before '07 not all F1s are equal)...then i went to the 2004 D3 X5 67.5" and was night and day, 34-22 were always the same, no matter what the conditions and got consistent 36-22 and 36-28 in practice and towards end of season was running 5 at 36-28 in tourneys...then i cracked that ski in half at the bindings, so went to the 2005 D3 X5 67.5" and i loved the ski but to progress deaper i was told by Chris Rossi/Jamie B/Wade Williams to go with a ski with sharper bevels to prevent my "overturn" i was doing in my turns, instead allowing the ski to turn...so then i tried the F1 2007 as well as the Monza/System 8 and still didn't feel as good as the X5, then I went to a Goode 9736 200amp 67" and loved it, nice and stable but has taken me awhile to get back to my X5 buoy count, still fighting inconsistent 36-28, especially in rougher water...

same goes for the HO Monza & System 8 (exact sames skis, just System 8 is softer flex) lots of quality issues with the HO skis and varying flex patterns between them...i tried multiple lengths on the Monza (67", 66") but didn't like the feel of them...the System 8 felt great, but very slow out of the turn, good for 34mph or less skiing, but not 36mph...

go with that used D3 X5 66.5" that BDECKER has, great deal and a great ski...or consider a 30-32mph shaped ski like a F1X or HO Burner/Triumph...i've heard nothing good about the HO Nitro...also Radar makes a wider ski too...

[MYMC]

Good grief...how often can Mom be right? Like she always said "it is far better to be quiet and let people think you don't know...rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt."

You know the more I think about the post above the more pi$$ed off I get...no wonder this sport can't grow...too many experts!

[BuoyChaser]

Good grief...how often can Mom be right? Like she always said "it is far better to be quiet and let people think you don't know...rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt."

You know the more I think about the post above the more pi$$ed off I get...no wonder this sport can't grow...too many experts!
MYMC - Just trying to help the guy out, in choosing the right stick. There is so many different viewpoints out there. Even once he gets the ski, then you've got the "factory setting concern" of the fin and/or binding placement, who knows if it is even in the right placement?!?

I'm not claiming to be an expert by any means, just spreading "RUMORS" from being around the dock a few times.

[MYMC]

from what i've been reading and having tried a variety of skis and talked to people who have been on different ones, if you're looking for something just fun then go with something that is considered a "SOFT SKI"...because it is forgiving in variable conditions (rough water vs smooth water)...most of the high ends skis (Fisher, Goode 9700/9800, F1, HO Monza, Sixam) have a high carbon content, therefore are stiff and have a very small sweet spot...D3's are high end skis, but they have a much softer flex (except the 2006 Nomad - trial and too stiff for most) so that's why the 2007 Nomad RC is a mix of the softer X5 and the stiffer D3...
What...huh? A "soft" (whatever that is) ski can be better for rough water...but what about one with a larger flat spot? A heavier ski rides better in rough water as well. Do you mean soft tail, mid-body or tip? "Soft" skis do one thing really well in the course or trying to learn the course...they come to a stop.


H2Osmosis is the way to go on demos, same price or less than everyone else and you get charged $40/ski or bindings to demo, but then get to reapply that $40 back to your purchase, how about that...but you need to give your ski in my opinion at least a week to get a good feel for it...so much involved in watching your style, where the water is breaking on the ski to make some minor binding adjustments FIRST before playing with the stock fin settings...
The ski should be set-up period before riding it. Binding placement is all but standardized for all the skis you mention. The fin must be set-up or you are kidding yourself and your wallet. Fin set-up is not the only thing it is everything! Just two weeks ago I helped a member of this board stuck at 38 on a Monza move deep into 39 (in competition)...by changing his fin numbers to something he had not tried before...ride a ski without a proper set up is wasting boat gas.


i went from a 66" HO CDX (soft ski) which helped me get into 36-22 then went to a 68" HO Phantom (stiff ski) which i never could be consistent on, then moved to 67" Phantom (still stiff) and still would sometimes run 36-22 but the ski would frustrate me...i tried some of the earlier F1's but every year they've changed them, finally coming up with a good bevel and consistency in their core for the 2007 model (before '07 not all F1s are equal)...then i went to the 2004 D3 X5 67.5" and was night and day, 34-22 were always the same, no matter what the conditions and got consistent 36-22 and 36-28 in practice and towards end of season was running 5 at 36-28 in tourneys...then i cracked that ski in half at the bindings, so went to the 2005 D3 X5 67.5" and i loved the ski but to progress deaper i was told by Chris Rossi/Jamie B/Wade Williams to go with a ski with sharper bevels to prevent my "overturn" i was doing in my turns, instead allowing the ski to turn...so then i tried the F1 2007 as well as the Monza/System 8 and still didn't feel as good as the X5, then I went to a Goode 9736 200amp 67" and loved it, nice and stable but has taken me awhile to get back to my X5 buoy count, still fighting inconsistent 36-28, especially in rougher water...
CDX soft? I guess it was the aluminum top. What you are writting off to flex is ski design...look at the bottoms of the skis you are talking about! The CDX has more rocker than all the skis listed here combined! CDX, 6AM etc...are not full width tunnel skis and therefore drop into the turn where Monzas, Goodes and Radars do not. This is all bottom and edge design...NOT FLEX.

same goes for the HO Monza & System 8 (exact sames skis, just System 8 is softer flex) lots of quality issues with the HO skis and varying flex patterns between them...i tried multiple lengths on the Monza (67", 66") but didn't like the feel of them...the System 8 felt great, but very slow out of the turn, good for 34mph or less skiing, but not 36mph...
Quality issues? Given the number of Monzas I have sold on this board ALONE without a single return I take MAJOR issue with this statement. I have sold and tuned more MONZAs to TMCers this year that went on to set PB's than ever before. Flex is only part of the difference between the Monza and Sys8...weight would be the major factor...as expressed here: Fnet = m * a...there is much more to a great ski than just flex and the Monza clearly qualifies as a great ski!

go with that used D3 X5 66.5" that BDECKER has, great deal and a great ski...or consider a 30-32mph shaped ski like a F1X or HO Burner/Triumph...i've heard nothing good about the HO Nitro...also Radar makes a wider ski too...
Shaped ski? After a rambling diatribe on high performance skis?

If you are repeating rumor from the dock, stop! This isnt a help...what you have posted doesnt even qualify as misinformation, you are labeling products and making blanket statements that are not true or correct. Unless you have flex tested all the skis you are calling soft personally (instead of shipping it off and being sold something) you are misleading people.

The one thing I'll agree with you on is the guys at H2O...Seth and Tad are stand up guys and would be a valuable resource in picking a ski.

[TMCNo1]

Ya'll excuse me while I get all strapped into my Formula 1 race car to go the the Pump and Munch to get new 20 lb. tank of propane for my grill!

[bdecker]

I have no clue as I don't have any experience with the Triumph. The x5 helped me advance, although I also need to give credit to Drew Ross and Thomas Moore, as their coaching was more valuable than the ski change. Some coaching is a great way to get whichever ski you choose dialed in for your skiing and vice versa. Simply watching you ski, a decent coach can definitely make better suggestions than any of us. Good luck with your decision, my marginal information is exhausted at this point!
Whatever you choose, remember its not a life and death decision, it's all about having fun. Don't over think it!

[Jesus_Freak]

Fin set-up is not the only thing it is everything! Just two weeks ago I helped a member of this board stuck at 38 on a Monza move deep into 39 (in competition)...by changing his fin numbers to something he had not tried before...ride a ski without a proper set up is wasting boat gas

You know I trust you ;) , but I am baffled by the fact that I could not tell a difference in Monza behavior by the removal of the wing. It seems like the lift/drag combination supplied by the wing (MYMC settings) would be at least MEASURABLE in the realm of fin-related effects. Am I just a bonehead, or are you telling me that a thousandth of an inch in DFT is important while wing existance is not? I realize the wing forces are somewhat perpendicular to those of the fin. Please comment.

[MYMC]

You know I trust you ;) , but I am baffled by the fact that I could not tell a difference in Monza behavior by the removal of the wing. It seems like the lift/drag combination supplied by the wing (MYMC settings) would be at least MEASURABLE in the realm of fin-related effects. Am I just a bonehead, or are you telling me that a thousandth of an inch in DFT is important while wing existance is not? I realize the wing forces are somewhat perpendicular to those of the fin. Please comment.
Well, I'm stumped...it may be that the effect you are looking for may be happening in a place that you are not expecting it to. Below 28 or 32 off many feel that the wing is not needed and actually is a hindrence. I think the whole set-up is important...with that said you must be the constant, you cannot make a change in your body position, pull, turn... everything must be as it was for the change to be evident. If after the removal you felt no difference maybe it was because you changed your pull due to the ski accelerating faster?

Hard to say but I do know you cannot measure something without effecting it.

(there that should be no help at all! Jeez after reading this I should be a politician):cool:

[Cottonwood]

I would highly recommend the X5. It is by far the most forgiving "high-end" ski you can obtain. The Monza is a great performing ski if you have it set up correctly. The reason the 9800 finished ahead of the Monza in the ski test was due to this fact. We did not have 2-3 weeks of tweaking to get the ski right. The 9800 is a fantastic ski but also requires an "adjustment" period. The X5 is not as susceptible to minor fin tweaks. Put it at the stock fin setting for length, DFT and 2.505 depth and go. It suits a wide range of skiing styles. It is a favorite among women for this very reason. You can find some very good deals on ski-it-again and ebay for older X5's.

If you entertain a 9800, opt for the smaller size if you are even close to the recommended weight. I moved from a 67" 9500 to a 66.5" 9800 and felt no difference (195lbs). The 66.5" 9800 is less than 1/4" shorter than my 67" 9500. Just an FYI on that point. I have a 9800 SL on order that I will pick up at Nationals next week. If it yields results beyond my current ski, I will post here.

[Jorski]

Hi Cottonwood,

It would be great if you could post on the difference (if any) between the SL and the regular 9800. Also, compare to the 9700.

BTW, the 9700 that I got from you last year has been a lot of fun, it has been my favourite ski to date.

Jordan

[tschultz80]

Wow thanks everyone for all your opinions- I think I will finish off the season with my Triumph (I just injured my lower back ugh so there's no rush) and then I'll go with H2Osmosis and Demo the Nomad RC 2007 (or 2008) because I have heard it is fast and stable like the x5. I'll also probably demo the x5 and 9800 just to see what it's like. If I demoed 3 skis at once, would the $120 fee ($40 each) all go towards the one ski I decide?
Thanks again for all the help

[BuoyChaser]

Hi Cottonwood - It would be great if you could post on the difference (if any) between the SL and the regular 9800. Also, compare to the 9700. BTW, the 9700 that I got from you last year has been a lot of fun, it has been my favourite ski to date Jordan
what size 9700 are you on???i'm on the Goode 9736 67" 200amp which I like quite a bit, but my buoy count hasn't been as high this year with only one tourney with a 5 at 36-28 pass...but think the ski is a little long for me at my current fighting weight of 170lbs and 5'10"...

[Cottonwood]

I have the ski on order but since I'm skipping Nationals this year, I won't have it for a couple of weeks. I'll post my thoughts at that time. Currently, I'm riding a borrowed 9800. The 66.5" seems to work better than the 67.25". The main difference between the 9800 and 9700 is how hard the ski hooks up at the finish of the turn. The 9700 likes to set hard immediately and the 9800 is a bit more progressive. Again, this is a matter of personal preference. I don't like the progressive turn at 28 and 32 but at 35 and beyond, the ski works with me very well. As the rope gets shorter, you must delay your pull. The 9800 allows for this and yet creates great angle and maintains that angle off the second wake. I'm a big believer in setting up a ski for your hardest pass. If a ski feels great at 15 off, it probably won't at 28, etc.

Not everyone who is on a 9700 likes the 9800. I would recommend sticking w/ your current ski if you're happy. However, if you are looking for a ski that is a bit more predictable in the turn, try a 9800. The flex numbers I found that work best on the 66.5" are: 165 tip / 151 mid / 103 tail / 1.65 rocker.

That being said let me warn you of some changes. Goode does not recommend drilling the new 9800. Therefore, they offer a G-10 plate ($150) that will allow you to mount your bindings to and then dual loc them to the ski. My neighbor made some aluminum plates using my Powershell plate as a template. This system works well. He actually mounted his bindings directly to the aluminum plate. He recessed the screws on the bottom so as not to damage the ski. He put enough dual loc on the plate and ski that he releases from the bindings prior to the plate releasing. Again, just an FYI for those who are contemplating purchasing a new 9800.

[Cottonwood]

what size 9700 are you on???i'm on the Goode 9736 67" 200amp which I like quite a bit, but my buoy count hasn't been as high this year with only one tourney with a 5 at 36-28 pass...but think the ski is a little long for me at my current fighting weight of 170lbs and 5'10"...

If you entertain a 9800, I would go w/ the 66.5" or even the 65.75". I'm 195 and skiing a 66.5" 9800. It's only marginally shorter than my 67" 9500 but with the added width, it doesn't feel any smaller.

[ski36short]

Thanks for the info. I didn't realize that Goode doesn't even want you to drill a 9800. I already drilled one (not for me obviously) to accept FMs! Given the circumstance I am surprised that Goode didn't emphasize that warning.

Anyone down your way skiing the 9800 at 36mph? Impressions?

[Cottonwood]

Let me be clear - Goode recommends not drilling the NEW 9800 SL. They never made that statement about the original 9800. They are now offering an option plate for the mounting of traditional bindings ($150). I would suspect that is the main reason for the change.

Now, as for 36, there are several skiers skiing 36mph. Tyler Scott, a Boy's 3 skier got 2 @ 39off at my June tournament on his 9800. He's on the new SL version and likes the changes. We have several Open skiers in our area on 9800's and they are getting down 39 on a consistent basis. The set up is critical. Bindings 1/8" to 1/4" back from stock and the fin back as well. I'm running the following numbers on my 66.5" 9800: 6.851 / 2.453 / .645 / 8 deg wing. Our water is 97 deg at the moment. As the water cools this fall, I'll go back to 9 deg wing.

As I stated, I would opt for the smaller version if you are even close to being on the bubble. I'm not even close to the recommended size for the 66.5" but it is working great.

[Jesus_Freak]

The main difference between the 9800 and 9700 is how hard the ski hooks up at the finish of the turn. The 9700 likes to set hard immediately and the 9800 is a bit more progressive. Again, this is a matter of personal preference.

How do you rate the Monza compared to these in terms of hooking up progression?

[Jesus_Freak]

...(there that should be no help at all! Jeez after reading this I should be a politician):cool:

No, I do understand your point, yet I am no better off.

Without your ability to watch me ski, and given the fact that I have my ski set up based on posted Rossi settings, can you make a general suggestion for me? Rossi skis at 36 and what....35+ off? I ski at 32 and 15 off. Rossi's position is good. My position smells of parmesian cheese. There has to be some difference a skier would make in fin/binding settings if he/she were moving from one of these extremes to the other on the same ski!

[Cottonwood]

I had some experience w/ the first Monza (black top / pointed tip). I really liked the way the ski turned and hooked up but it didn't carry me out off the 2nd wake like by Goode (9500 at the time). I know alot of folks doing very well on the Monza. It's a great ski but is very particular to fin set up. Even though you are running Rossi's numbers, those may not be best suited to your particular style. I would recommend a Carbon Fins Redim fin for that ski. Lots of folks are having success with it. It smoothes out the rough edges regarding turns and hook up. john(at)carbonfins.com. John can provide you with some insight.

[MYMC]

No, I do understand your point, yet I am no better off.

Without your ability to watch me ski, and given the fact that I have my ski set up based on posted Rossi settings, can you make a general suggestion for me? Rossi skis at 36 and what....35+ off? I ski at 32 and 15 off. Rossi's position is good. My position smells of parmesian cheese. There has to be some difference a skier would make in fin/binding settings if he/she were moving from one of these extremes to the other on the same ski!
Without seeing you on it there is not much I can say. My suggestion would be to go to a school for a day or two...like Cobles (closest for you I think). Slalom skiing is funny, we dedicate a day or two a week with no coaching and expect that somehow we are going to get better at it. A coach once told me that slalom is no different than gymnastics and requires the same amount of time and dedication...I know that is not what people want to hear but I believe it to be true.

FWIW, I used to ski on Goodes...right up until I was talked into trying their Velcro (lets call it what it is) binding mount. A close friend (Ward, you may have met at the reunion) and I both tried it on the same day...Ward's ski came off behind the boat at 35 off, one of the worst falls I have ever seen. I was arrogant enough to think that he installed it wrong and jumped right into the water to show him it worked...the ski came off going to 2 ball at 32 off...Goode bought both set-ups back (and a third) over the phone that day. If the bindings can't be attached via inserts and screws I dont need to be on it.

[JohnE]

Slalom skiing is funny, we dedicate a day or two a week with no coaching and expect that somehow we are going to get better at it. A coach once told me that slalom is no different than gymnastics and requires the same amount of time and dedication...I know that is not what people want to hear but I believe it to be true.


Yeah, and I do the same with my golf game!!!:D

[Jesus_Freak]

...Even though you are running Rossi's numbers, those may not be best suited to your particular style. I would recommend a Carbon Fins Redim fin for that ski. Lots of folks are having success with it. It smoothes out the rough edges regarding turns and hook up. john(at)carbonfins.com. John can provide you with some insight.

Agreed, hence my prior post to MYMC. I am fairly sure the settings are wrong for me, but dont really know where to begin to fix them. Yeah, yeah, I have read the stuff about fin setup. But someone's "need more tip" is not necessarily my "need more tip."

I plan to contact John. Thanks.

[Brent]

The Monza is a really sensitive ski that needs to be adjusted to changing water temps. If the ski turns evenly on both sides ,just change the DFT, If it is over turning move the fin back .005 at a time & if it is not turning well move it forward. If you are not comfortable with changing fin settings get rid of the Monza.

[Jesus_Freak]

The Monza is a really sensitive ski that needs to be adjusted to changing water temps. If the ski turns evenly on both sides ,just change the DFT, If it is over turning move the fin back .005 at a time & if it is not turning well move it forward. If you are not comfortable with changing fin settings get rid of the Monza.

Thanks. I increased the DFT today from 0.710 to 0.800. Yes, I know...a huge increase. It worked nicely. It produced a little sharper turns.

[lawless1]

I just ran through this thread as I just "lost" my HO Phantom w/Animal bindings. Short version is that after a short run I dropped the ski for a foot - ski went missing, not to be found.

I really enjoyed the Phantom and am going to miss it :( . Could look at getting the same ski again but want to take the opportunity to look at the new stuff. Any suggestions for a replacement ski comperable to my HO? Mostly free ski, aggressive, enjoy quick turns and speed across the wake, smooth water skier, 34 mph, 15 or 22 off, 165-170 pounds, 5'11''. Don't want to spend a grand but want something good for advanced slalom and willing to look at something used.

[tschultz80]

Ok,
I have narrowed down my choices to the D3 x5 or the D3 Nomad RC? Which one would u recommend? What are the differences?
Thanks

[tschultz80]

Ok,
I have narrowed down my choices to the D3 x5 or the D3 Nomad RC? Which one would u recommend? What are the differences?
Thanks

[rodltg2]

X5.!!!!!!!!!!!

[tschultz80]

hehe.. um thanks rodltg2 -can u give me some reasons for ur obvious choice of the x5?

[rodltg2]

its a bit softer and more forgiving than the nomad. howver i have not skied the new one yet.

[tschultz80]

how much of a difference in speed is there? Can u describe the x5 to me seeing i have only read the review from the D3 website, so they are obviously not oging to give anything negative aobut it-- if any of you ahve skied an HO Triumph how much better is the x5 than the triumph?

[Jesus_Freak]

how much of a difference in speed is there? Can u describe the x5 to me seeing i have only read the review from the D3 website, so they are obviously not oging to give anything negative aobut it-- if any of you ahve skied an HO Triumph how much better is the x5 than the triumph?

I like data as much as the next guy. Who doesnt want a good comparison before they spend hard-earned cash on a ski or anything? I applaud your persistence.

While I hope you find the exact analysis you are looking for, you might be waiting a while. May I please make a friendly suggestion that the only way it appears your data taste buds will be soothed is by trying some skis and getting used to them. Even if exact data were supplied on this site, what will you think?

For example, lets say that TTmemberA tells you that when he pulls with a force of B Newtons, at an angle of C° from the boat line, with his feet D% balanced from back to front, and the water temperature is E°Celcius, and water was F choppy, the X5 pulled across the wakes 13% faster than the triumph as long as he was holding his hips at position G and F back arm pressure and.....What are you going to do these results? You might begin asking yourself if you can match his conditions to produce the same ski comparison. Then you will wonder what he had been eating that day, if this is enough data, etc, etc.

I do hope such an analysis surfaces for you and that you know exactly how you will apply its numbers.

[H20skeefreek]

Excellent points JF. Don't forget he'll have to add, "this ski won't ski in a straight line, and I hate it, and just spent $1k on it".

How well does your high end Monza free ski? You should share that. My Sixam skis like a turd in a straight line, but man does it rip when it's on edge.

I'll say it again. STICK WITH THE TRIUMPH! Or by the Vengeance I have for sale in the marketplace.

[tschultz80]

would u say to demo the x5 at the end of this season and buy it if i like it? or should i wait until next year in case of some improvements or something?

[randyb]

I've been reading this thread for quite a while now and think I might have $.02 worth to put in...At some point, I think you just have to pick a horse and ride it for a while. I demo'd a Monza at the end of last season: I hated the ski. The bindings hurt, it felt like a turd in the turns, etc. This year, I took out a System 8 and have now been on it for about 2 months, have spent a bit of time tweaking the bindings and love it: you couldn't take this ski away from me. If I had only rode it one or two times though and not taken the time to dial in the bindings, get used to how it likes to turn, apply great some advice from this board that has really helped, I'd have a whole different opinion of the ski.

BTW, total side track... I'm just finishing up a vacation and have managed to ski for 6 days straight! My arms feel like rubber but I think I can now return to work with a smile on my face!!!

Good luck!!!

[tschultz80]

I'm going to order an x5 to demo tomorrow-- let you know how it goes.

[H20skeefreek]

Does anyone know where I can buy an Indy car for my daily commute to work?

[Jesus_Freak]

Edit: decided to keep my mouth closed...

[André]

Does anyone know where I can buy an Indy car for my daily commute to work?
:D :D :D .......

[88 PS190]

Demo if you can, the F1 is really popular with alot of skiers, partially due to the lower cost, and it being a durable, takes the abuse, slightly heavier ski.

I agree with many bite off more than they can choose in that you don't need the same lean angles, and across course direction running long line as you do running short line.

Skis such as the goode's have always been very light, with sharp rails, and as part of that you have to be in control to prevent the ski being jumpy, and when ridden on the flat, say pre pull out, or while you are waiting on the gate turn in they are going to have the potential to fight with you a bit.

I personally would look into the D3 line up as well, I really enjoy my nomad, it isn't as skittery as some, which is good.

The ski lasting a decade thing, skis last as well as you care from them, don't strip screws (skis with inserts are a good thing dave goode does not put them in there) I would try the F1, I would try a D3 X5 and Nomad (RC if you want).

I would also try the sixam.

The skis i really want to get my hands on are the Radar, and the Fischer but that has not happened yet.

Oh and try a Monza... Lots like them too.

[tschultz80]

I am ordering/demoing a D3 x5 and it's sposed to be here saturday... double high wrap boots, and there was a special and since I bought it during the week of the nationals I got 15% off:D yay!

[JohnE]

I am ordering/demoing a D3 x5 and it's sposed to be here saturday... double high wrap boots, and there was a special and since I bought it during the week of the nationals I got 15% off:D yay!

Congrats on making a decision. Keep posting on how you like that ski.

[shepherd]

I borrowed an '05 D3 X5 from a friend on the lake. I'm going to try it out either tonight or this weekend.

I tried an OBrien Siege for a couple days last weekend. Compared to my Monza, that thing rode like a brick. But, it was very stable and predictable and choppy water/rollers didn't faze it at all. It just didn't have the speed and agility of the Monza.

I'm hoping the X5 will be a happy medium between the two skis (Siege and Monza).

[tschultz80]

I borrowed an '05 D3 X5 from a friend on the lake. I'm going to try it out either tonight or this weekend.

I tried an OBrien Siege for a couple days last weekend. Compared to my Monza, that thing rode like a brick. But, it was very stable and predictable and choppy water/rollers didn't faze it at all. It just didn't have the speed and agility of the Monza.

I'm hoping the X5 will be a happy medium between the two skis (Siege and Monza

How did trying out the x5 go Shepard?

p.s. ugh now my ski isn't goign to me here till monday...:mad:

[shepherd]

_________________

[Jesus_Freak]

Still trying it. I lost my onside turn somewhere between my Monza and the Siege and the X5. Anybody seen it? :(

My onside and offside are both missing. I was hoping you had them. If you cannot keep up you with your own, I hope no hope of their safe return...

[88 PS190]

When I find I have trouble in my offside or onside it always can be traced back to the start of my run.

The way I set my pull out its intensity, and my balance will translate into everything that happens following it.

If I pull out in poor posistion I will not carry my momentum through the wakes and will not have a good offside, followed by a week wake crossing and not enough carry out into my onside turn so it just repeats itself over and over till the end of the pass.

If I stop myself and reset my run, get a good start then it will all translate over.

The other time I lack turns is when my driver doesn't get quite to speed, because I do not like skiing slow.

[tschultz80]

I just got the x5 and tried it.. it was great! I loved it and hope to try it some more tomorrow. Thanks for steering me in the direction to buy the x5 everyone it was a great choice!

[shepherd]

How did trying out the x5 go Shepard?

p.s. ugh now my ski isn't goign to me here till monday...:mad:


After 2 weeks of trying to dial it in, I gave the X5 back. It kept dumping me on my on-side turns for some reason. Went back to my trusty (but unpredictable) Monza. Much better! :) The Monza is a sweet ski.

The X5 is a good ski and I know many people love it. Just not for me - at least not this particular one.

[Jesus_Freak]

After 2 weeks of trying to dial it in, I gave the X5 back. It kept dumping me on my on-side turns for some reason. Went back to my trusty (but unpredictable) Monza. Much better! :) The Monza is a sweet ski.

The X5 is a good ski and I know many people love it. Just not for me - at least not this particular one.

It might be against posting guidelines to use "trusty" and "monza" in the same sentence. Moderators??? :D

[88 PS190]

isn't unpredictable the defination of untrusty?

[Cottonwood]

Just getting caught up on the thread. The X5 was a good choice and the one I would have recommended. The RC is a nice ski but it is not as stable as the X5 because it rides higher into the turn. Turning characteristics are similar but I feel the X5 is more predictable. I saw two skiers on the X5 at a Big Dawg event I skied. Both ran 39so it does perform. One thing I took away from the event was: Get on a ski and stick with it. One skier had been on several X5's over the past 5 years but always stuck w/ that model. He became more consistent by not jumping around on different skis / models. I tend to agree. If my Goode 9500 had lasted me another season, I would have had 5 seasons on the ski. Unfortunately, light core skis just don't last for an extended period especially if you ski 4-5 times a week for 8 months out of the year. I was lucky that my 9500 lasted as long as it did. Now that I've found a new home on the 9800SL, I hope I have the same luck with it. For what it's worth, I don't see a dramatic difference between the 9800SL and the original version. I'm running the same number of buoys. Possibly a bit smoother onside but not significant. If you were comfortable on your current 9800, I would recommend sticking with it. Not worth the extra $ IMO

[BX3]

Hey T just somemore to think about, I had an 70" HO CDX and was getting into 28off@34mph perfect pass run with magnets so it is about as accurate as it gets. I can consistently run 22's. I weigh about 200lbs even. I just recently got a 69.5"Monza and can tell you there is no comparison to the CDX. It took some setting up but this ski will put me into 32's and beyond for sure. It however is a much less forgiving ski than my CDX small upper body movements have a much greater effect and produce much more speed and angle all which i needed. The Monza will definitely give you something to grow into but it may bite your a-- in the process.

Good luck!

Let me know if you need any more information.

[shepherd]

It might be against posting guidelines to use "trusty" and "monza" in the same sentence. Moderators??? :D

Heh, you're right. My mistake. :cool:

[shepherd]

isn't unpredictable the defination of untrusty?

No. I trust it will be unpredictable every time I ride it.

[swagboy]

Just my $0.02 after going through a similar experience this summer... I was shopping for a high-end ski to upgrade. I had been sharing a Triumph that was too short for me by about 2-3" up till then. A friend of mine has a ski school and shop nearby, so I sought his advice on this also. I was looking for a Monza too, but he pushed me hard towards a System 8, and I'm glad he did! I demoed an "F1" from Connelly... it was OK but not overwhelmingly good, and IMO is an ugly ski to look at compared to the HO stuff. I have never skiied a Goode, but one or two guys around here have one, and like them. I think they are quite custom though, which I always took to be unforgiving as compared to a more "mass-market" ski like an HO.

There is not much shape difference between a Monza and a System 8 (in fact the blank may actually be the same), but the skis "feel" quite different. The Monza is designed to be run full-out at 34+ and short line in the course, and it does it well. The System 8 is still a very high performance ski, but slightly softer and more forgiving, I feel. There are a couple of guys in their 40's and 50's at the local club skiing Monzas because they are the "best of the best" so to speak, and they are struggling to get them dialed in - too much ski IMHO. I demoed the Monza and found the same - I could ski it, but it didn't like anything less than "balls out" skiing, which I'm not always looking to do.

I'm the last guy to complain about equipment, but upgrading to a System 8 was a GREAT choice, even if the first couple of sessions took some getting used to. I am free-skiing 99% of the time, short line at 34mph or so and loving it! It turns beautifully, isn't especially unstable when flat, and accelerates like crazy. In fact, some of the HO guys have used it over the Monza in competition - it's a personal thing.

If you're shopping for a used one, http://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php is a good place to look, although sometimes a bit pricey for used. http://www.hoskishop.com/index.cfm?sid=0 has some really good prices on HO skis, 2006 and 2007 models.

At the end of the day it's a personal choice. My opinion? Get a ski that's a bit beyond your current ability, but not so much so that you'll never catch up.

[JohnE]

Hey Shep,

After reading this thread again I have to ask: Would you want to try the System 8 vs. the Monza again? Not that I can make it happen, but I'm curious how you'd compare them now. Any chance you'd change your mind between the two?

[shepherd]

Hey Shep,

After reading this thread again I have to ask: Would you want to try the System 8 vs. the Monza again? Not that I can make it happen, but I'm curious how you'd compare them now. Any chance you'd change your mind between the two?

Hi John,

I believe my previous comparison is still valid - at least for me - but I would (of course) be willing to try the System 8 again. Back when I tested them, they were very similar but I gave the edge to the Monza for its slightly superior acceleration. My ski buddy has a System 8 now that he can take into 38 off (but he's been able to do that with almost any ski he's tried, including the X5 I've been trying, AND a Monza, AND his F1). I haven't tried his System 8 because it's too short for me (65").

As for the X5, I tried it again tonight. I couldn't even complete a 15 off pass. Jumped back on my Monza and was able to run 15, 22 and 28 (after a couple tries) passes. The Monza is just an awesome performer, but it can be unpredictable at times, especially in any kind of rough water. Again, these are my own personal observations and other people will probably have different experiences with these skis.

[JohnE]

Shep,

Thanks for the analysis. Back when you did the comparison, I tried to buy a Sys 8. Mike was away, (I didn't know) and Wiley's was out of them. I ended up with an F1X. I'm not unhappy with it. It is very stable, and makes me realize any poor performance is with me, not the ski. I was curious to your thoughts after some time.

Thanks again.

John

[shepherd]

swagboy, I'll throw in another 2 cents as well.

First, I personally think the Monza is an "ugly" ski but appearance is probably the last thing on my list of ski criteria.

Second, my understanding is that the System 8 is the EXACT same shape as the Monza, just made out of different cheaper material, is a little softer, and therefore a little less aggressive.

Third, I don't think "balls out" skiing is required to ride a Monza - if you can "tame" her and maintain control, she performs beautifully and most of the unpredictabitlity goes away.

Fourth, I agree that, in the end, it's a personal choice as to what ski suits you. I've also been told that the Monza is probably too much ski for my skill level, but I've been able to achieve more on that ski than any other ski I've tried.

[swagboy]

swagboy, I'll throw in another 2 cents as well.

First, I personally think the Monza is an "ugly" ski but appearance is probably the last thing on my list of ski criteria.

Second, my understanding is that the System 8 is the EXACT same shape as the Monza, just made out of different cheaper material, is a little softer, and therefore a little less aggressive.

Third, I don't think "balls out" skiing is required to ride a Monza - if you can "tame" her and maintain control, she performs beautifully and most of the unpredictabitlity goes away.

Fourth, I agree that, in the end, it's a personal choice as to what ski suits you. I've also been told that the Monza is probably too much ski for my skill level, but I've been able to achieve more on that ski than any other ski I've tried.

Hey, that's cool. Like I said, it comes down to a personal choice. In terms of the Connelly, the tipping point away from the ski was definitely the bindings - I have super wide Hobbit feet and the bindings were killer.

One thing I personally found with the F1, System 8 and Monza was that they perform better and better the harder I pushed them. Clearly these are not cruising skis. But because I can't always be assured of glassy water, I found the System 8 a bit more forgiving in less than ideal conditions. In the end, I think I would have been just fine on the Monza too - but I got a sweet deal on a lightly used System 8, and there you go. I am super happy with it, and, like you, I'm enjoying the perks of a high-performance ski. This summer has definitely taken my skiing to another level, and I've been doing this for quite a while.

We are enjoying the last passes before we put the boat away for another cold, wet Canadian winter - hope you are doing the same.

Cheers!

[Jesus_Freak]

Unfortunately, light core skis just don't last for an extended period especially if you ski 4-5 times a week for 8 months out of the year.

Please explain what happens with time/use.

[Jesus_Freak]

sorry....double post. computer is moving like gravy this morning.

[88 PS190]

well it is documented that skis tend to lose their flex in a few years if used extensively.

And my Goode 9200 cracked.