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floridamastercraft
07-31-2007, 04:56 PM
I live in the south (florida) and heat and humidty come free with every garage.... my garage is 28x20 (560 sq ft) ... I have no windows either...

I have a portable ac unit now but it can't keep up...

I thought about a mini-split or putting a vent from the house ac in there to put in cool air...

I put the boat in there almost every day wet so there is alot of humidty in there..

anyone have any ideas?

peason
07-31-2007, 05:03 PM
Do you have ceiling fans in the garage - It will help to get the air moving as much as possible.

floridamastercraft
07-31-2007, 05:06 PM
yes i have ceiling fan.....

Jkelly
07-31-2007, 05:20 PM
You will have to insulate your garage for it to any good. It also depends on the size of A/C you have.

floridamastercraft
07-31-2007, 05:23 PM
I did insulate the garage ... ceiling, garage door and it has block walls...

Maristar210
07-31-2007, 05:24 PM
http://www.acwholesalers.com/shop/list_brandedproducts.asp?brand_id=7

rspiecha
07-31-2007, 05:54 PM
Do you have a place to put in a PTAC unit??? The style used in motel rooms, all in one unit, 15k btu is around $700, works great for our insulated 30x26 garage. Has the ability to heat, but probably not needed for you.

http://www.ptacs4sale.com/

Rob

bigmac
07-31-2007, 05:54 PM
http://www.acwholesalers.com/shop/list_brandedproducts.asp?brand_id=7

Those things are great. Only requires a 3" hole in the wall to mount the condenser unit and they are FAR more efficient than a window unit. A buddy just built a house after tearing down the one that used to be there. The old house had about 5 of those units scattered around. He went with central air in the house and we installed the leftover units in his garage. We had to wire for 220 for the compressor, and used the compressor connection to power the condenser, which was also 220. That was simpler, but there were some NEC issues we had to ignore. We also had to get a regrigerant guy in to charge the lines. Very cool units.

etduc
07-31-2007, 06:38 PM
I live in the south (florida) and heat and humidty come free with every garage.... my garage is 28x20 (560 sq ft) ... I have no windows either...

I have a portable ac unit now but it can't keep up...

I thought about a mini-split or putting a vent from the house ac in there to put in cool air...

I put the boat in there almost every day wet so there is alot of humidty in there..

anyone have any ideas?

Unless you want more humidity, hydrocarbons, etc. in your house. Do not install condition air supply, from your house.

The simple size calculator, will approximate cooling needs for an attached room, but not a garage. There is more infiltration (leaks) in a garage install.

What temperature, do you want? And at what humidity level? Most importantly, how much do you want to spend?

If you give me your, actual location (nearest big city) I can give your the Manual J load info.

floridamastercraft
08-01-2007, 06:47 PM
Rob...HOA won't let me install a PTAC

etduc... I would like to get it in the high 70's or mid 70's.... humidity level I would like to get it around 50% or less so mold and stuff don't grow and rust stuff.... I do work out there couple of times a week....

I'm near West Palm Beach....

Chris M
08-01-2007, 07:25 PM
I would put a minisplit in and ceiling fans. Also make sure the atic is well ventilated. And walls should have some insulation in them if your going to cool all the time

etduc
08-01-2007, 08:25 PM
Rob...HOA won't let me install a PTAC

etduc... I would like to get it in the high 70's or mid 70's.... humidity level I would like to get it around 50% or less so mold and stuff don't grow and rust stuff.... I do work out there couple of times a week....

I'm near West Palm Beach....

50% probably not gonna happen, without some major $$$, on your average day. AMA recommends 40-60% average humidity for homes and businesses. Since there is more fresh air in a normal garage, mold is usually not a problem.

Yours looks to be pretty tight, though. The mass of the block holds thermal energy. Heat (like water) wants to equalize. Hot runs to cold, or vice versa. So if you let the block get hot, it will take awhile for the garage, to get down to temperature. Therefore, bigger unit, for quicker(demand) cooling. (Not always the best, for removing humidity.)

55-60% average is more likely, which is better than 85-100%, in your application. In any case, you would still need to do some basic rust prevention. If you are bringing a boat, with wet carpet, in to the garage.

A mini-split is more efficient, due to its design. I.e. no btu loss due to ducting, or btu loss to cabinet. 13-18,000 btu. (Depends on how fast you want it to cool down.) Neat thing about some of the better brands. Mitsubishi and Daikin have INVERTER compressors. They are variable output, so once the area is at setpoint, they run at greatly reduced capacity (like coasting down hill) to maintain temp. Much lower operating cost. Also, have programmable t-stats, so you can do de-humidifing at night. When external loads are reduced.

I would use something closer to 13,000 btuh, for day temp 78-80 degrees (if no other heat sources are present.) Some would recommend, 18,000 btuh.

atlfootr
08-02-2007, 10:32 AM
HOA won't let me install a PTAC....That's another thing that drives me crazy about HOA's :rant:
Fortunatly our HOA has dissolved it's self, so for us it's game.:D

atlfootr
08-08-2007, 07:39 PM
Our old and I mean OLD 1996-8 3Ton A/C Unit went BUST last Saturday after I installed a new Ritetemp Thermostat... head'n out to eat rt now will post pic's upon return.

M-Funf
08-08-2007, 08:25 PM
Have you looked into Evaporative Coolers? I don't mean Swamp Coolers...those make me sweat just thinking about them, especially in FL.

The Evaprative Cooling industry has come a long way. In the mid 70's, my father worked for a company that did commercial HVAC installations as an Engineer. They invented a new dual-stage evap system that used water across gauze covered tubes to cool the tubes. This WET air was exhausted outside. Air (from inside or outside) was then pulled through the tubes and into the living space. This DRY air cooled the space. In hot climates, it was used primarily to "pre-condition" the air going to a condensor, but in some applications, it was the only cooling method used. For warehouses and GARAGES, it would probably work fine.

When I was a kid, I worked for the company and built them before I'd go to school. They are extremely simple, easy to use, and inexpensive (unless you get one with fancy controls).

I haven't looked into them in quite a while. The company my dad started to make them closed years ago...

They are SO simple, you could probably build one yourself...

bxroads
08-08-2007, 09:20 PM
This is what I’d recommend and I’ll bet you could easily sneak it by your HOA, as a matter of fact, I'm sure it would get approval from them. It’s a PTAC that is installed inside in a closet (you’d have to construct a closet to specific dimensions but that would be no big deal and it doesn’t eat up a lot of space). The only thing visible from the exterior is a grill. Duct work, as in a house, must be installed and routed from the unit.

Vertical PTAC (http://www.geappliances.com/products/introductions/zoneline/download/vertical_series_spec_brochure.pdf)

Workin' 4 Toys
08-08-2007, 10:31 PM
I have to be the one to ask.
What's your budget?

Workin' 4 Toys
08-08-2007, 10:32 PM
I have a portable ac unit now but it can't keep up...

You do have this venting the "heated" air outside correct?

floridamastercraft
08-09-2007, 12:05 PM
My budget???? not sure ... probably around 3k

yes its vented outside..

bxroads
08-09-2007, 12:29 PM
What I referenced above can be done for less than 3K. IMHO, its the only option. BTDT........

Ric
08-09-2007, 12:35 PM
dropped by the house yesterday (detached uninsulated 3.5 car garage)
temp gage in garage said 95 outside temp, 105 inside temp :eek:

That's enough to melt a goode

jimmer2880
08-09-2007, 01:51 PM
dropped by the house yesterday (detached uninsulated 3.5 car garage)
temp gage in garage said 95 outside temp, 105 inside temp :eek:

That's enough to melt a goode

:uglyhamme

Ric
08-09-2007, 02:00 PM
:uglyhamme I thought you'd like that! Seriously am thinking of some positive ventilation for the garage, that is too hot! I'd love a/c but this application, it seems impractical

uawaterskier
08-09-2007, 02:04 PM
my dad added A/C to his garage when he added on to his house. Let me tell you, its nice. In the middle of summer you can work in there and it would be around 75 degrees. Whats really nice is the heat in the winter. You can work in the garage in a t-shirt and shorts and not feel the least bit cold.

Workin' 4 Toys
08-09-2007, 03:46 PM
My budget???? not sure ... probably around 3k

yes its vented outside..
Any chance you thought about adding another unit like you have? Is this similar to what you have?
http://movincool.com/portable-air-conditioner/pc7.php
7000Btuh, 115V, 9.7Amps, 1120 watts. For about $600 each you could add another or do two and only use both when you need both.

Workin' 4 Toys
08-09-2007, 03:48 PM
I thought you'd like that! Seriously am thinking of some positive ventilation for the garage, that is too hot! I'd love a/c but this application, it seems impractical

So instead of leaving it 95 degrees inside, you want to pump some 105 air in....:confused: Something seems wrong....

Ric
08-09-2007, 04:16 PM
So instead of leaving it 95 degrees inside, you want to pump some 105 air in....:confused: Something seems wrong.... hahaha some mod changed my post into an aggie post....

95 outside, 105 inside! DAMMIT

Workin' 4 Toys
08-09-2007, 04:45 PM
hahaha some mod changed my post into an aggie post....

95 outside, 105 inside! DAMMIT
Too many hUMP conversations will do that to you.

That's better. So you want to circulate the 95 degree air. :rolleyes: Got it....:noface:

O2BESOHUGE
08-09-2007, 06:04 PM
Put A Ridge Vent On The Roof Or Exhaust Fan In The Attic ...get The Heat Out Of The Attic. That Will Help Some

M-Funf
08-09-2007, 06:45 PM
Put A Ridge Vent On The Roof Or Exhaust Fan In The Attic ...get The Heat Out Of The Attic. That Will Help Some

I did that at my house in Kali. It drops the temp, but not much, and I know it gets much hotter in Floh-Duh.

Ric
08-10-2007, 12:17 PM
maybe I will try that. It has three of those cap type flat vents which are the typical couple of feet from the peak... HOT HOT in there

last night I checked it again
106INSIDE high yesterday, 96outside high yesterday

poor boat

Ric
08-10-2007, 12:51 PM
hey would I have to have the entire garage re-roofed in order to have ridge vents installed?

Workin' 4 Toys
08-10-2007, 12:56 PM
Depending on the style, Just the top row on both sides of it, but this can also be accomplished with flashing. And depending on the style vent, some require shingles on top if it.
So, to answer that question, no.

Ric
08-10-2007, 01:47 PM
it's a hip roof, but I'd guess there'd be about 20ft of ridge there. That's gotta be better than what I have now

Workin' 4 Toys
08-10-2007, 01:55 PM
it's a hip roof, but I'd guess there'd be about 20ft of ridge there. That's gotta be better than what I have now
http://www.airvent.com/homeowner/products/powerVents-powerRoof.shtml
Anything sounds better than what you have now.

Ric
08-10-2007, 02:20 PM
I am glad you posted that! What's the concensus on those things? Do they use more energy than they save?

I understand that the garage issue is not an energy saving issue, but I have thought of putting one of those in the house attic too...


Shouldn't this all be in the garage thread?

Upper Michigan Prostar190
08-10-2007, 02:30 PM
I am glad you posted that! What's the concensus on those things? Do they use more energy than they save?

I understand that the garage issue is not an energy saving issue, but I have thought of putting one of those in the house attic too...


Shouldn't this all be in the garage thread?
Dont you mean "The official Ric's strange fetish with garages" thread. ;)

Workin' 4 Toys
08-10-2007, 07:33 PM
I am glad you posted that! What's the concensus on those things? Do they use more energy than they save?

I understand that the garage issue is not an energy saving issue, but I have thought of putting one of those in the house attic too...


Shouldn't this all be in the garage thread?
Ric, do you turn on the exhaust fan after using the toilet, or shower to let the steam out? Or do you open the window? Which works better? And which works better when, spring, summer, or fall? (There are alot of variables)

Without knowing how your place is set up, I can't say for you. All it's going to do is suk in outside air from whatever cavities you have available for makeup air. And that will help you determine how much of a turn over rate you have. If you install a 15,000cfm fan and only have a 1/2" hole through the wall, then you wasted money on the fan, and the energy. But if you size if correctly, and only intend to circulate air, then it may have a benefit for you.

Just so you know.....This fan will in no way shape or form air "condition" your garage for you.

And yes, you should have asked in the garage thread...

Workin' 4 Toys
08-10-2007, 07:35 PM
Dont you mean "The official Ric's strange fetish with garages" thread. ;)
Speaking of MR. Exhaust fan!!! If he only needed to heat the whole place!!!!

Ric
08-10-2007, 08:18 PM
well ya I get that but it's a bad analogy.
The garage eves have vents in them every few feet and they represent far more "inlet" air than the current roof vents or jacks... is there a venturi effect there? I don't know.

in the house, If I open a window in thecrapper, the air doesn't really get pulled out the window the way a convection will pull air out the roof.

my question about the positive exhaust fan you linked was not for the garage, but rather for the attic in the house... Will the energy used to run the fan in the attic at whatever thermostat setting I choose, outweigh the saving's I'll get from having to air condition the home? Is there a rough formula? I mean, I really don't care if my attic is hot in my house as long as it's not eating my roofing up every 10 years and costing me 20% extra in home cooling energy....


Ric, do you turn on the exhaust fan after using the toilet, or shower to let the steam out? Or do you open the window? Which works better? And which works better when, spring, summer, or fall? (There are alot of variables)

Without knowing how your place is set up, I can't say for you. All it's going to do is suk in outside air from whatever cavities you have available for makeup air. And that will help you determine how much of a turn over rate you have. If you install a 15,000cfm fan and only have a 1/2" hole through the wall, then you wasted money on the fan, and the energy. But if you size if correctly, and only intend to circulate air, then it may have a benefit for you.

Just so you know.....This fan will in no way shape or form air "condition" your garage for you.

And yes, you should have asked in the garage thread...

Workin' 4 Toys
08-11-2007, 12:16 AM
Sorry, the crapper air circulation works best with the exhaust fan on AND the window open. I thought I was clear.:o

The Formula as you called it IMO is dependent on the engineer you ask.:rolleyes: (Although I am sure there is someone here that could help with that, but they would probably need the cu. ft. of the space and sq ft of the vents)

In theory, the fan is to not only keep the attic space cooler, but to stimulate circulation and remove stale air.
FWIW- I have never owned a power attic fan for my attic spaces, and probably never will. The concept of creating that air circulation without using the added energy/heat (powered fan) loss is prefered.
What you have may or may not have been designed appropriately if there is an issue. The fix, powered circulation.
Yes, there is suppose to be somewhat of a venturi effect.
Again, neither of these concepts will help whatsoever in the quest for air "conditioning" the garage.8p Even if yours is 2500sq ft.

Now, if you want to get into energy recovery systems, that could make this even more interesting.

Ric
08-12-2007, 11:50 AM
well your reason is the same as mine for not already having a positive ventilation in my house attic. I cannot justify the expense or the energy when I don't know that it will definitely lower my energy or maintenance costs IN THE HOME.. The garage though, it may be the solution to balancing the temp to outside given my bad garage build.

Sorry, the crapper air circulation works best with the exhaust fan on AND the window open. I thought I was clear.:o

The Formula as you called it IMO is dependent on the engineer you ask.:rolleyes: (Although I am sure there is someone here that could help with that, but they would probably need the cu. ft. of the space and sq ft of the vents)

In theory, the fan is to not only keep the attic space cooler, but to stimulate circulation and remove stale air.
FWIW- I have never owned a power attic fan for my attic spaces, and probably never will. The concept of creating that air circulation without using the added energy/heat (powered fan) loss is prefered.
What you have may or may not have been designed appropriately if there is an issue. The fix, powered circulation.
Yes, there is suppose to be somewhat of a venturi effect.
Again, neither of these concepts will help whatsoever in the quest for air "conditioning" the garage.8p Even if yours is 2500sq ft.

Now, if you want to get into energy recovery systems, that could make this even more interesting.

atlfootr
08-12-2007, 03:29 PM
Our old and I mean OLD 1996-8 3Ton A/C Unit went BUST last Saturday after I installed a new Ritetemp Thermostat.Works GREAT!
Awesome screen display and LARGE DIGITS ... :cool:
The kind I need :rolleyes:

Workin' 4 Toys
08-15-2007, 09:47 AM
well your reason is the same as mine for not already having a positive ventilation in my house attic. I cannot justify the expense or the energy when I don't know that it will definitely lower my energy or maintenance costs IN THE HOME.. The garage though, it may be the solution to balancing the temp to outside given my bad garage build.
We could possibly help along a little further, but without seeing it makes it a little difficult to dignose. Pictures would help:D

Ric
08-15-2007, 11:11 AM
We could possibly help along a little further, but without seeing it makes it a little difficult to dignose. Pictures would help:D OKAY!!! ENOUGH! Here it is:

Ric
08-15-2007, 11:15 AM
Here's another .

Workin' 4 Toys
08-15-2007, 02:28 PM
Looks good. They didn't look like 8' doors though, I was surprised. And which CAD program are you running?


(I expected nothing else from you8p )

Monte
08-15-2007, 03:23 PM
Looks good. They didn't look like 8' doors though, I was surprised. And which CAD program are you running?


(I expected nothing else from you8p )

W4T I believe that is the new low cost option to CAD.. it is called RDD..

Monte
08-15-2007, 03:24 PM
BTW ric... nice garage.. Reminds me of the one Fred Flinstone sported..

Ric
09-05-2007, 09:30 AM
I live in the south (florida) and heat and humidty come free with every garage.... my garage is 28x20 (560 sq ft) ... I have no windows either...

I have a portable ac unit now but it can't keep up...

I thought about a mini-split or putting a vent from the house ac in there to put in cool air...

I put the boat in there almost every day wet so there is alot of humidty in there..

anyone have any ideas? well, what did you end up doing? BUMP

floridamastercraft
09-05-2007, 11:36 PM
no I didn't do anything yet I think I'm going to install a Mini-Split...

Workin' 4 Toys
09-07-2007, 09:56 AM
Just around the corner from another brutal 80 degree:rolleyes: winter anyway, so you now have a few months to think about it.;)

Ric
10-03-2007, 01:33 PM
no I didn't do anything yet I think I'm going to install a Mini-Split... I did nothing as well but definitely will do ridge vents over the winter as a start against the problem.
no a/c for me