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sfitzgerald351
02-23-2005, 09:07 PM
So on the thread about the trim tabs on the newer boats I saw mention that someone was using 77' of line. http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=1807

I usually wakeboard at 22' off on a standard slalom line at about 18-20 mph on my 1984 as that seems like the spot where the wake is nice and big and not to flat and spread out. But I'm now curious as to what others do, especially on the older boats. I don't have any extra ballast in my boat (no room with all the skis and wakeboards!)

MarkP
02-23-2005, 09:11 PM
I would think thats about the right spot to find a bump.

Professor
02-23-2005, 09:33 PM
I trick a little slower but use the same line length.

Cary K.
02-24-2005, 06:51 PM
Probably opening myself up for a flaming w/ so many skiers on here, but what length is a standard ski line? A lot of newer boarders ride between 55-65'. Also, in wakeboarding, one of the most important pcs of equipment is a non stretch rope. A standard rope allows stretch and this will not allow you to load the line. Once you release from the wake, all of your line tension will pull you off axis, and/or not allow you to use your line tension for maximum pop. I realize that many ppl do not want to buy a separate $100 rope for wakeboarding, but thought I would share some info.

BriEOD
02-24-2005, 07:16 PM
Probably opening myself up for a flaming w/ so many skiers on here, but what length is a standard ski line? A lot of newer boarders ride between 55-65'. Also, in wakeboarding, one of the most important pcs of equipment is a non stretch rope. A standard rope allows stretch and this will not allow you to load the line. Once you release from the wake, all of your line tension will pull you off axis, and/or not allow you to use your line tension for maximum pop. I realize that many ppl do not want to buy a separate $100 rope for wakeboarding, but thought I would share some info.

WHAT!!!! YOU DON'T KNOW????

Just kidding, a standard length ski rope is 75 feet. When people refer to the "off," you simply subtract 22 off from 75 feet to get 53 feet, etc.

sfitzgerald351
02-24-2005, 08:09 PM
Huh? Special wakeboarding rope? I just figured that was a marketing gimmick and was using my nice slalom line... Of course I can't really wakeboard to save my life (I need to pick up a book or video or something) so at the very least you've now given me an excuse (it's the wrong rope, man! :cool: )

AirJunky
02-24-2005, 08:25 PM
70' with 800 lbs of ballast. Good hump & it's a challenge to get all the way across to land on the down slope.

mitch
03-02-2005, 11:37 AM
Scott, You NEED a diff line for boarding..period. You will notice a difference right away. You're losing a lot when you cut to the wake with that stretch line. You want no stretch. I board at 21.7 mph, with 1100 lbs of ballast and usually at 60' - 70'

sfitzgerald351
03-02-2005, 01:19 PM
I've got to get a new slalom rope this year so I guess I'll buy a wake board rope at the same time. I'm now very curious to see the difference. Just looked and can't believe how expensive some of them are. I'm a bit concerned that the take-off loops aren't going to be in the right place for my boat since the wake is pretty crappy at 70' out at 18mph. Even with the big motor, my boat throws a tiny wake (but lots of spray).

Do most of you out there use one handle and switch ropes or do you just have 2 sets of everything?

Mag_Red
03-02-2005, 02:07 PM
I have a seperate line and handle for boarding. Usually the handle is a bit wider. :twocents:

86PowerSlot190MC
03-02-2005, 02:11 PM
I've got to get a new slalom rope this year so I guess I'll buy a wake board rope at the same time. I'm now very curious to see the difference. Just looked and can't believe how expensive some of them are. I'm a bit concerned that the take-off loops aren't going to be in the right place for my boat since the wake is pretty crappy at 70' out at 18mph. Even with the big motor, my boat throws a tiny wake (but lots of spray).


Ballast is the name of the game.

I had three people a ton of camping gear three coolers full of ice, skies and a barbecue. The wake looked good around 20MPH (Speedos are not that reliable), I couldnít tell how long the line would have to be, but with a little trial and error you could get to the nice spot. Iím thinking of replacing the rear chair with a ballast bag when and if I ever get a tower.

:twocents:

MasterMason
03-02-2005, 03:14 PM
Do most of you out there use one handle and switch ropes or do you just have 2 sets of everything?


Besides being bigger, a wakeboard handle will float in the water. (A waterski handle will not) Makes it easier to grab and go with the boarder is the only reason I can figure out.

sfitzgerald351
03-02-2005, 06:48 PM
Ballast is the name of the game.

How does your 86 do with the ballast?

I know I've got plenty of power to handle it, but I find that turning the boat around with a lot of people in it (like 8) is tough, espcially if the weight is more on one side than the other. It just plows around and takes a lot of rudder and playing with the throttle to get it to come around. Not usually a big deal since I usually power all the way down and return to the skier at idle but I have one turn on our lake that we ski through and it's always a bit nerve wracking to make it with the boat loaded. I'd think ballast in the rear of the boat would make the issue far worse.

AirJunky
03-02-2005, 06:59 PM
I'd think ballast in the rear of the boat would make the issue far worse.

We've found that weighting the back of the boat only is not the way to go. By weighting the middle & bow you do several things, make the boat perform again, keep the bow rise down on take off, & make the bow settle down quickly when going over other wakes.

I have 300 lbs in the stern between the seat & gas tank, 120 lbs under each gunnel ( which can also be used to balance the boat if needed), 250 lb fat sac in the locker, and 100 lbs in the bow hidden under the seats. With this setup, the wake is medium size, very hard & has a nice clear line on top (gives you an easily seen target when your trying to pop off the wake), and the boat performs well enough to do Around the Boats easily.

sfitzgerald351
03-02-2005, 07:33 PM
I guess that I should point out that when I've skied with a number of people in the boat they have been on the front seats and along the sides of the engine box. So fairly evenly distributed around the midsection. I'm sure weight only in the back would be far worse. But still curious to see how an older model like mine performs with ballast.

86PowerSlot190MC
03-03-2005, 01:26 AM
I was thinking about using a Fat Seat. It fits around the engine cover.

http://www.wakecord.com/sacks.htm

sfitzgerald351
03-03-2005, 01:31 AM
That would work for me since I don't have a rear seat anyway, but then where do you put the skis and boards? I don't have a dock I can ski from and the ramp is a 10-15 minute ride from the ski area so my boat is always filled with skis, vests, boards, etc... and as you know the old boats have almost zero storage.

NatesGr8
03-03-2005, 01:49 AM
We have a 94 prostar, board with a line length of around 70' with 1000 lbs of ballast at around 24 to 26 mph. More speed equals more height equals insane tricks :headbang:

AirJunky
03-03-2005, 03:59 AM
From what I understand those fat seats are like 1200 or 1400 lbs....... just about enough to sink your low rider.

A few years ago there was a guy on Sammamish who had one in an 87 PS190. The gunnels were like 3" off the water, no exaggeration. He took water over the stern a number of times. Later I heard his tranny blew. Probably saved him from sinking.

800 lbs drops my 94 about 4" lower than an unweighted boat of the same vintage.

If you decide to do it, be careful!

mitch
03-03-2005, 09:51 AM
Scott, Look here for a cheap WB mainline-> http://www.skirope.com/closeouts2.htm

SteveO
03-03-2005, 10:13 AM
2 ropes and 2 handles for me. The no flex coated lines for boarding are nice in that they don't flex (not that I can tell a difference) and since I don't wear gloves when boarding, they tend to not tear up your hands as much when you are letting out the slack.

sfitzgerald351
03-03-2005, 12:07 PM
So for wakeboarding do people recommend the Spectra or Polyethelyne line?

Tug
03-03-2005, 10:37 PM
From what I have learned this year, you want to weight your boat with ballast with 60% of the weight in the back and 40% in the front. I would try to spread it evenly through your boat. Fat sacs will take up quite a bit of room ( 1 gal of h2o = 8 lbs). The 'back seat sac is around 800-1200 #'s....I forget. The next smaller ones are about 250 but you can place them much better. I went to some tire stores this winter and picked up their used tire weights (basically free) and cooked them down and pourred into teflon bread pans. One brick is about 40 lbs. I have 30 of them. Unfortunately, you have to tow them. Concerns would be wear and tear on trailer and car. Go to a wakeboard site and those guys can give you all the input you want and more. I surf Wakeboardatlanta.com. Good luck!
edit here, If you're comfortable with you're jumping, just play with your line lenght and see what lenght you need to clear both wakes and land on the downslope of the opposite wake. As you improve your skills, increase your lenght. There is a topic on Kneeboardplanet.com on how to put a 'section' in your rope without messing it up. Also, with air tricks, a 'static' line will help. Slalom lines and cheap lines stretch with tension. When you go airborne, the recoil will throw your balance off. On a kneeboard, using a slalom line with a decent cut, you may get 8' of recoil while in the air. Just imagine what that will do to your center of gravity. If your just learning, it's not a big deal. As you increase your skill...it will make a huge difference. Check out the Kneeboardplanet site. It's not nearly a popular as the wakeboard site but the people are very nice and helpful.

sfitzgerald351
03-04-2005, 12:31 AM
From what I understand those fat seats are like 1200 or 1400 lbs....... just about enough to sink your low rider.

A few years ago there was a guy on Sammamish who had one in an 87 PS190. The gunnels were like 3" off the water, no exaggeration. He took water over the stern a number of times. Later I heard his tranny blew. Probably saved him from sinking.

800 lbs drops my 94 about 4" lower than an unweighted boat of the same vintage.

If you decide to do it, be careful!

Yeah, that's what I was worried about. I think the running gear can handle it, but I just know the boat would be totally unresponsive with that much weight in it and it's already pretty easy to take on water now. The older boats throw a great wake, but just aren't designed for a ton of weight or any degree of chop.

I think I'll just get a decent wakeboard rope and go from there. I'm really terrible anyway. I have to hook up with Mitch this summer to get some pointers...

mika
03-09-2005, 04:52 PM
I run a Spectra rope and a ext pylon on a 98 PS190. No weight in it, but I dont do arials, yet. Pull at about 16 for the best wake shape on my boat.

rem_pss308
03-09-2005, 05:55 PM
Ditto on what Tug said.
I will add this.
We only wakeboard. I am at the begining stages, and my son is an advanced rider.
For me the wake is not that important. Needs to be a little big, but too much, and I cant control my jumps. for my son the bigger the better. He like one that is rampy, more than mellow.
More weight than 60% in the rear makes it rampy.
Weight distribution is very important to make the wake to his level.
We started by adding weight to the rear. We used a single water bed to start with, I dont know how much it weighs, but it will sink the swim platform, on our 93 prostar 205. then we added weight forward to get the wake just right.
right now, I have about 900 lbs in a custom built compartment( makes a nice sun deck too) that replaces the rear seat. We have a 600 lb sac in the front( open bow ) It touches the ski pole, and does not go all the way up front. We use 250 lb sacs on each side of the engine to balance the side to side weight. It varies with the amount of people we have in the boat.

Ballast sacs, Ropes, and handles, can be bought on e-bay very cheap. Type in wakeboard on the search, and you will find what you need.

I ride at about 20 MPH at 65 feet of rope with just the rear sac filled. My son rides with all sacs filled, and 75-80 feet of rope, at 23 mph.

Hope this helps.

River Rat
03-09-2005, 06:12 PM
We run a straitline non stretch rope at about 70 ft. we pull at 22 mph, with about #900 fat sac in the rear. I am looking at adding weight to the front. Wakeboard mag. Has a great piece in this month's issue on cheap weight and how to spread it out. Basically a 60 \ 40 split. it's worth getting a issue.

Holtrodj
03-09-2005, 06:28 PM
Anyone use a barefoot rope for wakeboarding? What is the difference? They're both low stretch, right?

Cary K.
03-09-2005, 11:07 PM
You want a NO stretch rope, not a low stretch rope. A barefoot rope is definitely better than a slalom rope, but the same stretching principle works against you. There are also some ropes marked as wakeboarding ropes that are basically the same as barefoot ropes. It is amazing how much a true non stretch rope will help. Spectra or similar is the way to go, not poly-e. :twocents:

rem_pss308
03-11-2005, 12:51 PM
The reason you want a no strectch rope is to get pop off the wake. As you cut in with the board, and keep tension on the line. You should have tension the whole time that you cut through the wake. With a rope that stretches, you loose the tension, and dont get the pop off the wake. :twocents: