Cap and Rotor

[jsonova99]

Does anybody know what the right distributor cap and rotor are for a 91 PS190 with the 351 in it? I'm assuming that it has points, but I may be wrong, I'm not at all familiar with point type ignition systems.

[MarkP]

I dont know the # but this will help

http://www.skidim.com/departments.asp?dept=1012

[JohnnyB]

Bought mine for last fall's tune-up at skidim. They also sell the parts for the conversion from points and condensors to electronic. Very worth while.

[milkmania]

jsonova99,

since you've already been referred to skidim, I thought you might like to see this before you order....


look for the post with this time stamp: 08-25-2004, 07:17 PM at this link
http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=408&highlight=skidim+discount

[Zach S]

Pardon my ignorance here, but how can you tell wether you have points or an electronic set up? When I bought my boat there was a receipt for the electronic conversion so being the trusting person I am I just rolled with it. I would like to know for sure, if it is fairly easy to check.

[MarkP]

I think you would see your points under your rotor

[BrianM]

If you have points there will be just a single black wire coming out of the distributer. If it was converted there will be two wires (one black and one usually purple). Don't even have to take the cap off to tell. Hope that helps.

[Zach S]

That helps

Thanks

[jsonova99]

Okay, I was sure that I had points, and I ordered the tune-up kit for points, but I just looked at the wires going into the distributor and I have two, one black and one purple. They are both coiled wires going into the same connection on the side. I'm pretty good with engines in general, but I have no idea what a point system looks like so I am completely confused. Luckily my Dad will be around this weekend to hand down a final verdict. This task should have been a lot simpler than it has turned out. :mad:

[MarkP]

Sounds like the points are no longer on your boat;) .. Thats a good thing

[jsonova99]

That's true, it's just that I had the boat on the ramp this weekend and couldn't get it started. I think part of it was that the battery was a little weak from sitting, and also that it needs a good tune-up. I wanted to get everything straightened out before the weekend. I charged the batteries and threw in some fresh plugs, I guess the current cap and rotor have atleast a few hours left in them. Of course we're supposed to get T-storms all weekend here in Florida. The boat gods have not been friendly to me lately! Thanks for all of the input guys!

[Lance]

My 87 Prostar with 351 I believe is the same engine as yours and requires the prestolite screw down type cap and rotor.

Your boat probably had traditional points when it was new but may have been converted by a previous owners. I am not entirely sure about BrianM's (no offense) regarding the one wire / two wire bit because I am pretty sure my '87 has two wires and I know for a fact that it has points (the boat is in storage so I can't verify the two wire part).

To see if it has been converted simply remove the cap and rotor and see if you have points or an electronic pickup... pictures on ski-dim should prepare you for this inspection.

Given your statement that, "I'm not at all familiar with point type ignition systems." you are probably a good candidate for the electronic ignition retrofit since once it is in there isn't any periodic maintenance required. A lot of members here have made the switch and absolutely swear by it.

I am reasonably comfortable working with standard points ignition so am sticking with it for now but it does require maintenance occasionally which can be a little intimidating for some (although it is actually pretty straightforward once you have read a tutorial or two on the subject).

Lance

[Lance]

Your ramp experience is one I have encountered. The ignition is a very likely culprit. In my experience you can have problems with the points if you store the boat outside under a cover as a lot of moisture is trapped inside which can cause problems with the points and connections inside.

A good mechanic will tell you that you need air, fuel, and spark to make an engine work. I am not a mechanic but have found the easiest thing to check is the spark part so when my boat won't start the first thing I do is look for the spark at the points. Basically remove the cap and rotor and turn the engine over so that the points are closed (in contact with each other). Then with a screwdriver move the arm of the points to break the contact and you should see a spark across the gap. if you don' you know your problem is on the primary side of the ignition. In all cases that I have had this problem replacement of the points and condensor (combined cost < $10) and cleaning up the connections has solved the problem.

Might be worth a try.
Lance

[jsonova99]

I just called skidim and cancelled my order. I'm going to let my Dad take a look tomorrow. It would definitley be a nice surprise if the conversion had already been done, saves me about $500. It didn't look like it had points, but I'm basing that on the fact that once I had the cap off I didn't see any parts that I wasn't familiar with, looked like there was just a rotor.

[jsonova99]

I think what happened to me was that I flooded the engine. A few hours before we took the boat out, I turned it over in the garage just to make sure that the battery wasn't dead, and it started right up. I killed it right away. By the way, is this bad to do if you just let the engine catch with no water hooked up? I figured that it wasn't since it had no time to warm up at all, but I'm wondeirng if I could damage the water pump or anything doing this. Anyway, at the ramp I had the engine box up and after trying for about 5 minutes I could smell the gas. The starter was barely turning the engine over though which is why I initially suspected the battery. I pulled a plug back at the house and it was wet with gas. All the plugs looked pretty good that I pulled though, they were all clean. I think a freshly charged battery and good tune-up will solve my problem. This to me is a perfect example though of what happens when you let boats sit too long without use, we hadn't been out since New Year's day. I'll post an update when I get another chance to run her.

[Lance]

I didn't read this tutorial but a quick scan indicates this might be a good tutorial to refresh your memory on the basics:

http://autorepair.about.com/cs/generalinfo/a/aa052502a.htm



$500 seems a little high unless you are replacing the entire distributor which I probably would not recommend since unless the new one goes in exactly right you can create real timing issues. You should be able to just replace the points and condensor with the electronic pickup for about $115. Your item is found here at http://skidim.com/products.asp?dept=1113 and is item number 13212.


To see if your boat has been converted you will probably need to remove the rotor as well. Once you remove the rotor if you see something that looks like the picture labeled "Prestolite (All)" at the link here: http://skidim.com/products.asp?dept=1026 you still have points.

Lance

[Lance]

I'll be interested to hear what others say about starting engine dry. I always start mine before i go to the ramp. I don't run it long (10 seconds) but i do start it. Like you say there shouldn't be a problem with heat and I haven't notices a problem with the impeller that I can attribute to this action (although I replace my impeller fairly frequently anyway).

lance

[jsonova99]

speaking of impellers, what is involved in replacing one, since I don't when mine was last replaced, I'd like to do it before the season kicks in full gear. I'll start another thread in case others are interested.

[BrianM]

I could be wrong about the one wire two wire thing but I don't think so (JimN can you confirm). All of the distributers that I have seen with points have only a single black wire that goes from the condensor (on the points plate) to the negative terminal on the coil. The electronic ignition has this same black to the negative and generally a purple that goes to the positive side of the coil.

Helped a budddy change to electronic on his 81 MC and it was the same as my '88 which is the same as my '70 Bronco with a 289 in my garage.

Now maybe this is just a Ford thing. Y'all with GM block may be different.

[Lance]

BrianM,

So when you do an upgrade to electronic ignition do you add the second wire? From where on the inside of the distributor to where on the outside? Also, when you said in your original post that it is a coiled purple wire that sounds to me like it is part of the orinal wiring harness not something that would be added with an electronic ignition upgrade kit.

Like I said, I don't have access to my boat to verify the wiring and didn't mean to offend.

Lance

[BrianM]

Lance

My boat has a coiled purple wire (now and when it had points) that went from one side of the coil to a ballast resistor and back to the main panel on the back of the engine this is the ignition wire and where the coil gets the power.

The modual of the electronic ignition (which replaces the points plate) has two wires coming out of it one black and one purple. The electronic requires a hot wire. This wire must have a full 12v which is why the ballast resistor must be taken out of the line.

[Lance]

OK. Then I would like to formally retract my comment about the two wire part. I knew there was a pruple wire there somewhere... but from memory couldn't recall where it ended up.

lance

[BrianM]

Lance,

By the way there was no offence taken earlier.

Oh yeah and do yourself a favor and quit messing with those points. The electronic conversion will take you 20 minutes to do and you will never have to mess with adjusting or cleaning again. Plus the performance is better. This quote came from the article you posted a link to.

The points have a tough job, switching up to eight amps of current many times per second at highway speed. Indeed, as engine speed increases the efficiency of your ignition system decreases, thanks to heating problems and fundamental electrical laws.

Our boat engines constantly run at 'highway speed" and better. Which is where the points are the least efficient.

[Lance]

BrianM,

I suppose the upgrade date is coming soon. The concern I have had is the report by some that they have burned out the electronic ignition by leaving the ignition switch on for an extened period. I generally don't do that but I wouldn't put it past my wife. And let me tell you... regardless of how many times I warn her not to do something like this... if she goes ahead and does it and has problems there is only one person to blame and it isn't her ;)

Besides... what would I do with my spare points and condensor ;)

Actually my brother and I have had an on-going discussion about this upgrade for both of our boats (my 87 and his 89) and for an old pontiac he has. I would guess we will talk ourselves into it before summer.

Lance

[BrianM]

BrianM,

Besides... what would I do with my spare points and condensor ;)

Lance

Put them in a plastic bag and leave them in the boat. That way when your wife leaves the key in the on position and cooks the electronic you can slap the points in real quick and save your day on the lake.:toast:

[milkmania]

ordered my Perktronics (sp?) electronic pickup from O'Reilly's a few minutes ago.....$84.99 + tax (will be overnighted from Oklahoma City)