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View Full Version : Three Technical Problems - Need Advice


Overdraft
07-16-2007, 09:32 AM
Hello all - could anybody give me insight on three issues on my new X 14 with 400HP LY6:

1. The "Mastercraft" logo letters are falling off the side of the boat one at a time. Any type of silicone or other method / adhesive anyone can recommend when I stick the new one back on?

2. The high temp alarm sounds off at about 170 degrees - are they that sensitive - do others have the same problem? It has happened twice but it is a little bothersome. Yesterday it happened the first time I had the boat over 4000 rpm....

3. There is an annoying "hiss" at about 3000 to 3500 rpm coming from the engine bay - sounds like my old Buick Wildcat when my buddy would rev the motor and I would try and set the carb up myself. Is this normal? This is my first direct drive boat so perhaps I am sensitive to the noise as the engine is so close to my ear.

Any help on any or all of these three issues is most appreciateted. I love the boat otherwise.

shepherd
07-16-2007, 09:54 AM
For #2: Are you sure it's "high temp" alarm? 170 degrees should be normal temp. The alarm on my boat is supposed to go off for high temp, low voltage (recent example) and other engine problems - i.e., there's not a specific alarm for each individual condition.

Just a thought...

JimN
07-16-2007, 10:24 AM
The first two are warranty issues and you should ask your dealer about the third, too.

You may only see 170 degrees but are you sure the oil cooler isn't clogged or the impeller is OK? If there's not enough fresh water coming in, what is in there can cavitate and/or an air pocket will form in the area where the sensor lives and air isn't what the sensor is supposed to be immersed in.

If the letters are falling off, cleaning the hull with denatured alcohol is better, because the hull may have silicone lubricant or wax on it and both will keep them from sticking.

Overdraft
07-16-2007, 11:12 PM
For #2: Are you sure it's "high temp" alarm? 170 degrees should be normal temp. The alarm on my boat is supposed to go off for high temp, low voltage (recent example) and other engine problems - i.e., there's not a specific alarm for each individual condition.

Just a thought...
It says "Hi temp" for sure on my guage - problem is my dealer is 5 hours away - and the local guy doesn't have the software to check my unit...any idea where the senosr lives?

Overdraft
07-16-2007, 11:18 PM
The first two are warranty issues and you should ask your dealer about the third, too.

You may only see 170 degrees but are you sure the oil cooler isn't clogged or the impeller is OK? If there's not enough fresh water coming in, what is in there can cavitate and/or an air pocket will form in the area where the sensor lives and air isn't what the sensor is supposed to be immersed in.

If the letters are falling off, cleaning the hull with denatured alcohol is better, because the hull may have silicone lubricant or wax on it and both will keep them from sticking.
As I mentioned to Shepherd, the dealer is 5 hours away - sort of kicking myself in the *&^% because I knew there would be goofy stuff like this and nobody to fix it near the cottage- but I like the blasted boat so much. I have a conferance call with the mechanic and sales rep in the morning to see if we can find a solution. Also need the heater on my boat modified - apparantly they had to put the boat out before the heater was ready - not billowing out enough heat so they have to do some modifications....oh boy if my life wan't complicated enough...

chevy08bud
07-16-2007, 11:27 PM
Couldn't the hiss at that high of RPM just be the sound of the intake? That would be my bet. There isn't much restriction on those intakes and they don't put intake mufflers on these things either.

Overdraft
07-16-2007, 11:40 PM
Couldn't the hiss at that high of RPM just be the sound of the intake? That would be my bet. There isn't much restriction on those intakes and they don't put intake mufflers on these things either.
It might be...I was asking the forum if their boats had similar noise. This is my first DD - it might be something as simple as the fact that my ear is so near the block - with noises I am not used to. I was wondering if others noted the same thing or am I loopy - but my buddy yesterday did ask me what that 'hissing noise ' was?

JimN
07-16-2007, 11:53 PM
These can be diagnosed without a computer but the diagnostician needs to know the voltage or resistance parameters. If he says he absolutely needs the software, keep looking for a new tech. Each sensor will have either two or three wires, with the exception of the knock sensor which is totally passive and has only one wire because it's basically Y/N within a specific range, and the O2 sensor, which generates a voltage through a chemical reaction and since it generates the voltage itself, it doesn't need a power supply voltage. The rest will show a range of resistance (two wire) or a return voltage (three wire). The three wire sensors all use approximately 4.5-5 Vdc as the supply/reference and the minimum is usually about .5 Vdc.

It ain't rocket surgery. If the tech knows where the sensors are, he should be able to do a check for continuity/shorts and then read the voltage/resistance at the ECM. As they say on TV infomercials, "It's just that easy". If, OTOH, the tech doesn't know how to diagnose electrical/electronic problems like these, he should get a new hobby. This one is costing people too much money and time on the water.

Andyg
07-17-2007, 12:37 AM
Overdraft,
I have all three of the same concerns as you on my 2007 197 with the LY6. I have weed problems on my lakes and the tranny cooler likes to clog on occasion. However even when the tranny cooler isn't clogged I have had high temp problems. I believe the problem is that there is an air pocket in the system that does not allow water to circulate properly. If I see the water temp rise above the 180 degree line (next one to the right of 160) I rev the engine to about 3500 for a second and bring it back down. Nine times out of ten the engine temp drops back to under 180. When it doesn't I check the tranny cooler for a blockage and I usually find weeds. I know that it wasn't weed problems causing it as the lakes that I was on last week had no weed problems and the engine was still repeatedly overheating. It would usually occur within a few minutes on a warm start.

As for the weeds causing the problem I think it has a lot to do with how the raw water intake is designed on the LY6. On the MCX the water goes through the raw water impeller prior to it going through the tranny cooler. This will usually make weed puree out of anything going through the impeller so the tranny cooler rarely if ever will clog. However on the LY6 the water is sucked through the tranny cooler before it goes into the raw water pump. The tranny cooler acts like a filter and clogs very easily with weeds. With that blockage the engine will starve for water and over heat. If you are on the water the only way to fix it is to pull the intake side off the tranny cooler and scrape the weeds out with your finger. If you can pull the boat out you can spray a house from the exit of the tranny cooler and backflush the weeds out. Just make sure to disconnect the hose from the inlet of the tranny cooler so you don't just flush the weeds back into the hose and resuck them up when the engine starts.

The noise you are hearing from the engine is the intake. When this engine is working it is really sucking in huge volumes of air. As that air passes the throttle plate (the plate you can see when the flame arrestor is removed) it is acting like a whistle as the air passes around it. The problem is amplified due to the fact that the clamshells do not seal well at the front of the engine. They had to make a cutout in the engine cover to allow the cover to clear the flame arrestor. I have a band aid fix that dampens the noise some. I put a piece of black foam pipe insulation between the clamshell halves to knock the noise down. You can still hear it, but it is not as obnoxious as it was before. I attached a photo of the pipe insulation installed.

As for the letters how are they falling off? In my case the silver backing of the letter was still stuck to the boat. The drip molded portion seperated from the base of the letters. Your dealer should be able to send you a set of letters and you can install them as long as you are comfortable with doing the alignment. The key is to get the boat as clean as possible before trying to put the new decals ons. You want all wax and residues off the gelcoat before attempting to put the letters on.

As for the heater on the LY6 that is also a concern of mine. For some reason Indmar and MC decided that these engines should run cold. If you notice when you are running above 3000 rpms your engine temp will drop to around 140 if the water is on the cool side. It is hard to get heat to come out of a heater when your engine is not staying at 160 degrees. This spring when I was out with my boat I never actually even got the temp up to 160 degrees. It wasn't until June and the water temps were in the 70s that my heater produced reliable heat. By then I really didn't need it anymore. I don't know what the fix is for this though.

Good luck in resolving your issues.


andyg

Overdraft
07-17-2007, 08:27 AM
Jim/ Andy....absolutely brilliant replys..precisely what I was hoping for. I will print out and have this for discussion with the dealer this morning.

I sincerely appreciate the effort(s) to write these notes.

Overdraft.:)

JimN
07-17-2007, 09:21 AM
The oil cooler was ahead of the raw water pump on all motors before about '99, when they put it on the front of the motor, after the pump. That seemed to work fairly well, IIRC. I don't know why they would have moved it back, unless it was due to space issues. There were a lot of discussions about adding a strainer in the previous forum. Maybe they're still in the archives.

TMCNo1
07-17-2007, 10:01 AM
Unfortunately during the boat building process, the molds for the fiberglass components are polished for smoothness anmd a mold wax is applied, so the component will release from the mold when it has cured. Some of the wax remains on the new gelcoat component and needs to be removed before decal application. It has not been much of a problem in the past with the older single layer vinyl decals, but with the new drip molded decals it has been somewhat of a problem.
As a general rule, there is no glue that will work to reapply these decals, but complete decal removal, gelcoat cleaning with alcohol/prepsol and application of new decals is the only real answer.

beatle78
07-17-2007, 10:11 AM
for an '07 it sounds like you need to let the dealer take care of these warranty issues.

JimN
07-17-2007, 10:43 AM
AndyG- Do you have an IR thermometer? Aim it at the highest part if the motor and see if your theory holds any water (sorry, it'll never happen again). If it has a cool pocket, maybe Engine Nut can shed some light here. Maybe there's a way to add a bleeder to that area, like what was on the LT-1, or possibly a higher volume water circulating pump would help, too.

Andyg
07-17-2007, 10:48 AM
Unfortunately I do not have access to an IR thermometer. I am sure Engine Nut will come along and blow my theory right out of the water!

JimN
07-17-2007, 11:02 AM
"Unfortunately I do not have access to an IR thermometer"

I thought you were like McGuyver! Paperclips, gum, tin foil and a rubber band should do it.

Andyg
07-17-2007, 11:19 AM
"Unfortunately I do not have access to an IR thermometer"

I thought you were like McGuyver! Paperclips, gum, tin foil and a rubber band should do it.

My McGuyver days are over since I left Harley. Now that I sell orthopedic implants I had to shut that side of my brain down. Now it is just used to absorb the brunt of my excessive alcohol consumption.

JimN
07-17-2007, 06:33 PM
Speaking of Harley, I ran into Marty Rosenblum the week before last. I didn't know he retired.

Never shut that side down- you never know when you'll need it. :friday:

C'mon, tell me you have never need problem-solving skills in the middle of a bender.

Overdraft
07-17-2007, 11:52 PM
My McGuyver days are over since I left Harley. Now that I sell orthopedic implants I had to shut that side of my brain down. Now it is just used to absorb the brunt of my excessive alcohol consumption.
Andy...if your 2007 LY6 engine is prior to serial number 130833 there is a service bulletin your dealer should make you aware of. It is No.2006.AUG30.SB-005 SUBJECT: LY6 Raw Water Cooling System. The condition reads: " The LY 6 engine, introduced in 2007, requires some modifications to the cooling system, when cooled by raw water, to make it less susceptible to overheating conditions. The procedure involves re-routing the supply to the dripless packing, and plugging a vent fitting on the back of the termostat housing". The modification requires Part # 81495133 LY6 Dripless Packing Relocator Kit.

Sounds like a fix for my boat as the S/N is in this range.

My decal kit arrives on Thursday from the dealer so I will try my hand at installing them. Some friends are coming to ski this weekend so I want to make sure the boat has its decals on as presently" aste cra t" is written on port side "M ste Craft" on starboard.

Will try the foam idea on the clamshell -dealer water tested a couple of his inventory and agrees with us all it is noisy though for whatever that is worth.

Thanks again for you interest in solving my problem(s)...much appreciated.

Overdraft
07-18-2007, 12:04 AM
Unfortunately during the boat building process, the molds for the fiberglass components are polished for smoothness anmd a mold wax is applied, so the component will release from the mold when it has cured. Some of the wax remains on the new gelcoat component and needs to be removed before decal application. It has not been much of a problem in the past with the older single layer vinyl decals, but with the new drip molded decals it has been somewhat of a problem.
As a general rule, there is no glue that will work to reapply these decals, but complete decal removal, gelcoat cleaning with alcohol/prepsol and application of new decals is the only real answer.
Furthermore TMC1...I had the dealer remove the factory X 14 graphics and replace it with the tradiional MC logo. He (the dealer) felt that the compound they used to clean off the old decal residue remained hence the problem. Admitedly, I am a litlle nervous gluing these on myself but the dealer is so far away - I can't get the boat to him. Any suggestions other then the solvent (leveling, time to cure) would be appreciated.

TMCNo1
07-18-2007, 01:18 PM
Furthermore TMC1...I had the dealer remove the factory X 14 graphics and replace it with the tradiional MC logo. He (the dealer) felt that the compound they used to clean off the old decal residue remained hence the problem. Admitedly, I am a litlle nervous gluing these on myself but the dealer is so far away - I can't get the boat to him. Any suggestions other then the solvent (leveling, time to cure) would be appreciated.
Just clean it good with alcohol last after you remove any glue and wax, but before removing the old decals, place masking tape on the left end and bottom of the original and measure their location as insurance. Then apply the new decals from left to right about 1/8" inside the tape. No one will ever notice the 1/8" adjustment on a 20'+- boat. Press them down good, using the waxy backing paper you removed from the adhesive side while using a hair drier (med. heat) to help set them, then just do an occasional check to be sure they are OK.

You have a X-14? Just wondering, cause your profile says 1994 and those are 2 totally different types of decals IIRC. Are the decals you are applying flat vinyl or drip molded domed letters?

Overdraft
07-18-2007, 09:45 PM
Yes...my x 14 was new only in May. I havn't updated my profile - maybe tonight I will. I love to show her off so I am attaching the snap.

Thanks for the advice on the decals - I will get over the anxiety..

Overdraft
08-30-2007, 09:27 PM
Overdraft,
I have all three of the same concerns as you on my 2007 197 with the LY6. I have weed problems on my lakes and the tranny cooler likes to clog on occasion. However even when the tranny cooler isn't clogged I have had high temp problems. I believe the problem is that there is an air pocket in the system that does not allow water to circulate properly. If I see the water temp rise above the 180 degree line (next one to the right of 160) I rev the engine to about 3500 for a second and bring it back down. Nine times out of ten the engine temp drops back to under 180. When it doesn't I check the tranny cooler for a blockage and I usually find weeds. I know that it wasn't weed problems causing it as the lakes that I was on last week had no weed problems and the engine was still repeatedly overheating. It would usually occur within a few minutes on a warm start.

As for the weeds causing the problem I think it has a lot to do with how the raw water intake is designed on the LY6. On the MCX the water goes through the raw water impeller prior to it going through the tranny cooler. This will usually make weed puree out of anything going through the impeller so the tranny cooler rarely if ever will clog. However on the LY6 the water is sucked through the tranny cooler before it goes into the raw water pump. The tranny cooler acts like a filter and clogs very easily with weeds. With that blockage the engine will starve for water and over heat. If you are on the water the only way to fix it is to pull the intake side off the tranny cooler and scrape the weeds out with your finger. If you can pull the boat out you can spray a house from the exit of the tranny cooler and backflush the weeds out. Just make sure to disconnect the hose from the inlet of the tranny cooler so you don't just flush the weeds back into the hose and resuck them up when the engine starts.

The noise you are hearing from the engine is the intake. When this engine is working it is really sucking in huge volumes of air. As that air passes the throttle plate (the plate you can see when the flame arrestor is removed) it is acting like a whistle as the air passes around it. The problem is amplified due to the fact that the clamshells do not seal well at the front of the engine. They had to make a cutout in the engine cover to allow the cover to clear the flame arrestor. I have a band aid fix that dampens the noise some. I put a piece of black foam pipe insulation between the clamshell halves to knock the noise down. You can still hear it, but it is not as obnoxious as it was before. I attached a photo of the pipe insulation installed.

As for the letters how are they falling off? In my case the silver backing of the letter was still stuck to the boat. The drip molded portion seperated from the base of the letters. Your dealer should be able to send you a set of letters and you can install them as long as you are comfortable with doing the alignment. The key is to get the boat as clean as possible before trying to put the new decals ons. You want all wax and residues off the gelcoat before attempting to put the letters on.

As for the heater on the LY6 that is also a concern of mine. For some reason Indmar and MC decided that these engines should run cold. If you notice when you are running above 3000 rpms your engine temp will drop to around 140 if the water is on the cool side. It is hard to get heat to come out of a heater when your engine is not staying at 160 degrees. This spring when I was out with my boat I never actually even got the temp up to 160 degrees. It wasn't until June and the water temps were in the 70s that my heater produced reliable heat. By then I really didn't need it anymore. I don't know what the fix is for this though.

Good luck in resolving your issues.


andyg
Andy...problem solved with the overheating.

My dealer changed the two sensors, then removed the manifold, removed exhaust , changed exhaust....agreed to lend me a new X2 for the weekend and then suddendly discovered after the mechanic was on it 4 days.....that the intake grate was mounted in reverse! Unsrew reverse and rescrew...fixed in 5 minutes.

CottagerGreg
08-31-2007, 12:56 AM
Just curious to where you are that the dealer is 5 hours away.....

I am assuming you are out in western Canada? Calgary or Edmonton ?

Jesus_Freak
08-31-2007, 06:36 AM
...The noise you are hearing from the engine is the intake. When this engine is working it is really sucking in huge volumes of air. As that air passes the throttle plate (the plate you can see when the flame arrestor is removed) it is acting like a whistle as the air passes around it.

Yes, the throttle plate is choking the flow, i.e. the air is passing around the plate at the speed of sound. That occurs at most throttle positions, however, so it seems like what he is hearing is not the throttle plate acceleration but maybe something related to higher volume rates. There must be some restriction somewhere else.

EDIT: Oh....I see the intake grate comment above. I am not famiilar with those grates. Does anyone have a picture?

Overdraft
09-05-2007, 09:55 PM
Just curious to where you are that the dealer is 5 hours away.....

I am assuming you are out in western Canada? Calgary or Edmonton ?
My dealer is in Quebec (Ste. Adele) and my cottage is 2 hours West of Ottawa...bit of a drag.

Overdraft..

Overdraft
09-05-2007, 09:56 PM
Yes, the throttle plate is choking the flow, i.e. the air is passing around the plate at the speed of sound. That occurs at most throttle positions, however, so it seems like what he is hearing is not the throttle plate acceleration but maybe something related to higher volume rates. There must be some restriction somewhere else.

EDIT: Oh....I see the intake grate comment above. I am not famiilar with those grates. Does anyone have a picture?
Dealer said the noise was 'normal'...bugs me though...

Overdraft..

Andyg
09-09-2007, 09:46 PM
Dealer said the noise was 'normal'...bugs me though...

Overdraft..

Overdraft,
I traded in my 2007 197 with LY6 and picked up a 2008 197 with the LY6 about a week ago. A couple of things that I have noticed between the two model years in regards to engines is the engine intake noise and perfect pass surging.

I did not even notice the intake whistle when I was out over Labor Day weekend. I had my piece of foam in there so that might have knocked it down so that I didn't notice it. Next time I am out I will see if I can hear it.

The other thing I noticed is that on my 2007 the Perfect Pass would surge anywhere from 50-100 rpms. You could hear the engine rev slightly and then drop back. The speed never changed and I couldn't notice it when I was skiing. The new boat holds speed rock solid and there are no rpm surges.

I would think you could fix the "whistle," but I would hate to do what I am thinking on a brand new engine. I am thinking that the reason for the whistle on the intake is the velocity of the air past the sharp edge on the throttle plate. The throttle plate is essentiall a round flat disk. If the edge of the disk has a sharp edge that would promote the intake whistle that we hear. If you were to disassemble the the throttle plate and take a piece of emery (sp?) cloth and break the edge of the throttle plate it might solve your problem. You could use a file if the emery cloth won't break the edge but you just want to make sure you only break the edge.

Andy

Jesus_Freak
09-10-2007, 07:27 AM
...I am thinking that the reason for the whistle on the intake is the velocity of the air past the sharp edge on the throttle plate. The throttle plate is essentiall a round flat disk. If the edge of the disk has a sharp edge that would promote the intake whistle that we hear...

This sounds fair, but I am thinking the "edge" is not cause. The throttle is designed such that the air is going to reach, and in a local sense, exceed the speed of sound (for a given temperature and air composition). This would occur, regardless of the abruptness or bevel of the edge. A rounded edge would certainly make for an entry that has less turbulence production, but I am not sure it would be quieter. Maybe...I would try it on a lawnmower before my boat 8p.

MYMC, have you ever experimented with this?