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M Shore
07-10-2007, 06:27 PM
Hey guys hope everyone enjoying summertime. Here is the dilemma. I bought what was advertized as a 1983 mc ss the person I purchased from seemed real straight. He said he had the title at another residence and would mail it to me. seeing how I had driven a conciderable distance to get the boat and this had not been mentioned over the phone I bought the boat hoping he was honest. I waited a couple of weeks nothing tried calling no return after a couple more attempts the # was disconected. I ski on a private lake registration not really necesity so I spent a year and thousands of dollars on resto and repower. Love the boat been enjoying it for a couple of years now however I now need a more family friendly vessel. This is the complicated and confusing part. I went to the dmv with the vin MBCBC419M80 ther is no record of this boat ever being registered in florida. Itook pictures of the boat before it was striped so I had the registration # FL 9089EU. the dmv ran this # and it came up as being the registration # for MBCXCAC8F686 They could not disclose the name or info of the person it was registered to. SO my questions are, Does anyone recognize these # , How do I get a title, and are the last two # the year of the boat. The vin stamped in the boat is not tampered with and it reads MBCBC419M80 B-P

endl
07-10-2007, 07:27 PM
Boy that is tough. If you have a Bill of Sale maybe you could use that to license the boat and get a title somehow. A lot of states like AR do not title boats, but title the trailers. It is weird that the Hull ID's do not match. If I was in that situation I would advertise it as no title available and tell people the situation. Once you sell it to a person who does not need a title to register it then you move on. If the people come forward who at one time owned the boat and there is a possesion issue then you can deal with that when it happens.

M-Funf
07-10-2007, 07:35 PM
I smell fish...do you?

Reg. numbers not matching HIN is not a good sign. You can probably get it cleared up through DMV, but you may want to check to see if either of those HIN numbers or either of the Reg. numbers was reported stolen...If not, you should be able to re-register.

I bought a boat that hadn't been registered or non-op'd for several years. All I got was a bill of sale. I didn't know the Reg. numbers for the boat, or the HIN, though I did have a reg. paper that showed some reg number I could not find on the boat. DMV treated it as a new (home built) boat and gave me new papers...

M Shore
07-10-2007, 08:40 PM
Neither of the numbers came up stolen or reported stolen. The dmv told me that since the numbers on the boat do not match the previouse registration I am out of luck. he said it was an unregisterable vessel until I can find the true previouse owner. I did not get a bill of sale as I thought the title that never came would sufice.

ski_king
07-10-2007, 08:58 PM
http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=160875&postcount=32To make matters worst, neither HIN is for a 1983.
MBCBC419M80 is for a 1980 and MBCXCAC8F686 is for a 1986.

I hope it works out for you.


Hull Identification Number Hull Identification Number (http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=160875&postcount=32)

JimN
07-10-2007, 09:00 PM
Call the police. Tell them what happened and they can check into the phone number, regardless of whether it was a cell or landline. They may want to dust for prints but it definitely sounds like a sticky situation. If it's hot, keeping it is bad karma, IMO. I have lost quite a bit to dirtbags who don't have a problem stealing things that people worked their azzes off for and I want everyone who stole from me to suffer, for a very long time. You what you feel is right.

If it was a private number that was listed, you can google it and get the name/address, too.

Jim@BAWS
07-10-2007, 11:10 PM
Hey guys hope everyone enjoying summertime. Here is the dilemma. I bought what was advertized as a 1983 mc ss the person I purchased from seemed real straight. He said he had the title at another residence and would mail it to me. seeing how I had driven a conciderable distance to get the boat and this had not been mentioned over the phone I bought the boat hoping he was honest. I waited a couple of weeks nothing tried calling no return after a couple more attempts the # was disconected. I ski on a private lake registration not really necesity so I spent a year and thousands of dollars on resto and repower. Love the boat been enjoying it for a couple of years now however I now need a more family friendly vessel. This is the complicated and confusing part. I went to the dmv with the vin MBCBC419M80 ther is no record of this boat ever being registered in florida. Itook pictures of the boat before it was striped so I had the registration # FL 9089EU. the dmv ran this # and it came up as being the registration # for MBCXCAC8F686 They could not disclose the name or info of the person it was registered to. SO my questions are, Does anyone recognize these # , How do I get a title, and are the last two # the year of the boat. The vin stamped in the boat is not tampered with and it reads MBCBC419M80 B-P


Please give me a week or so. I will get you the needed info

Jim@BAWS

etakk7
07-10-2007, 11:51 PM
Looks like Jim is going to help out. I don't understand why you would want to contact the previous registered owner though, since there is a fair chance it was stolen. Wouldn't this only put you at risk of losing the boat?

I also agree that if the last 2 digits are 80 then it is a 1980 boat.

JimN
07-11-2007, 12:42 AM
"Wouldn't this only put you at risk of losing the boat?"

So, you're saying that it's OK to keep a stolen boat as long as the rightful owner doesn't find out? That's called receiving stolen property, regardless of whether the original owner was paid by the insurance company or not and if they were, the insurance company is the owner, not the guy who sold it last.

If it was your boat and it had been stolen, wouldn't you want it back if it wasn't trashed?

etakk7
07-11-2007, 10:32 AM
"Wouldn't this only put you at risk of losing the boat?"

So, you're saying that it's OK to keep a stolen boat as long as the rightful owner doesn't find out? That's called receiving stolen property, regardless of whether the original owner was paid by the insurance company or not and if they were, the insurance company is the owner, not the guy who sold it last.

If it was your boat and it had been stolen, wouldn't you want it back if it wasn't trashed?

If M Shore bought the boat in good faith as he said 2 or 3 years ago, I don't think he should feel guilty about the original owner or the insurance company. I'm sure it is out of their mind and replaced by now.

I'm not saying it's OK to keep a stolen boat, but he doesn't know if it's stolen, and I think it's ridiculous to think he should have to try to track down the rightful owner if he bought the boat in good faith 3 years ago.

To answer your last question, if my boat was stolen 2-3 years ago and the owner bought it in good faith, I would not try to take it back. That is why we carry insurance. Hopefully I would have a replacement.

JimN
07-11-2007, 10:40 AM
I didn't see how long he had it. The way it was written, the part I absorbed sounded like it was very recent.

Monte
07-11-2007, 10:51 AM
Not sure of the laws there, but here in NC you can do a lost title application. It will require a bond that usually costs about $100. Then you will complete an affidavit of title. Basically you will fill out how you obtained the boat have that notorized, and ask for a new title. The state attempts to contact the last two owners and any lein holders. If any of them makes claim for the boat. the DMV investigates. As long as everything on that affidavit is true. You have nothing to worry about except possibly loosing the boat to the rightful owner. I bet the former owner simply mixed something up. If nobody makes a claim against it you get a brand new clear title...

pepi
07-11-2007, 12:50 PM
To answer your last question, if my boat was stolen 2-3 years ago and the owner bought it in good faith, I would not try to take it back. That is why we carry insurance. Hopefully I would have a replacement.

You may not try and take it back, but the insurance company certainly would.

Prostar Rich
07-11-2007, 01:35 PM
Possession of stolen property:

The offense of acquiring goods with the knowledge that they have been stolen, extorted, embezzled, or unlawfully taken in any manner.

The earliest statute that made receiving stolen property a crime was enacted in England in 1692. It provided that the receiver—the person who accepts the property—should be deemed an accessory after the fact to the theft. The crime became a separate substantive offense in 1827, and it has been similarly treated in a majority of U.S. jurisdictions.

Elements

Receiving stolen property is defined by statute in most states. Generally it consists of four elements: (1) the property must be received; (2) it must have been previously stolen; (3) the person receiving the property must know it was stolen; and (4) the receiver must intend to deprive the owner of his or her property.

A person receives stolen property by acquiring or taking manual possession of it. Physical possession, however, is not always required. Under some statutes, it is sufficient if the accused has exercised control over the property. For example, a statute may declare that paying for the property constitutes control, regardless of whether the accused has handled it.

In many jurisdictions a belief that the property is stolen satisfies the knowledge element. It has been held that a mere suspicion does not constitute knowledge. Some statutes provide that a person has knowledge if he knows, or has reason to know, that goods are stolen. Another test is whether a reasonable person would suspect that the property was stolen. Knowledge is commonly proved by the circumstances surrounding the receipt of the property. For example, unexplained possession of goods that were recently stolen raises a presumption that the possessor received them illegally.

In order to be guilty, the receiver must intend to deprive the owner of the property. The crime is committed even if the receiver intends to obtain a reward for returning the property because she has gained a benefit from depriving the owner of possession, even temporarily.

Defenses

An honest, although mistaken, belief that property is not stolen is a defense to the crime of receiving stolen property. Intoxication is another defense, but the intoxication must be severe enough to prevent any knowledge that the property was stolen. Infancy and insanity are also good defenses.

Punishment

The punishment for receiving stolen property is a fine or imprisonment. The term of years imposed varies from state to state. In jurisdictions where value is an element of the offense, the severity of the penalty is commensurate with the value of the goods. Where value is not an element, it might still be significant in determining the severity of the punishment.

Civil Remedies

In a majority of states, the person whose property was stolen may bring a conversion action against the receiver of stolen property. If the accused is found to have converted the property, the victim has a choice of remedies. The victim may demand that the accused return the stolen property or may require the accused to pay the full value of the property at the time it was converted.

Federal Law

Receiving stolen property is proscribed by federal statute (18 U.S.C.A. § 662) when it occurs within the maritime or territorial jurisdiction of the United States or when such property has moved in interstate commerce.


Prostar Rich

bigmac
07-11-2007, 01:49 PM
The problem is that the OP wouldn't be criminally liable if it's stolen, but he still might lose the boat.

Good lessons here, though...especially relating to the importance of getting a Bill of Sale and not paying the seller without getting a title.

tex
07-11-2007, 01:59 PM
I'll step up and say it-This sucks for you M. You try and trust people and risk getting rammed for it! I hope it works out. You are guilty of nothing but being a trusting dude.

beatle78
07-11-2007, 02:01 PM
wow what a nightmare, if you seriously want to track down the original owner and are not afraid of losing the boat, I would ask the Police to help.

The Police will be able to obtain the names/addresses that the DMV would not give you....

good luck, keep us posted on this one.

endl
07-11-2007, 02:52 PM
Now that he has owned it for several years would it not be questionable whether he should not have reported this in a "reasonable" time frame. Not getting a BOS and not receiving the title in a reasonable amount to time 1-2-3 months then reporting and and getting the help of the authorities would seem reasonable. Waiting several years looks to be not reasonable, considering he has been using the boat.

I personally would have done exactly the same thing and been in the same position. I think you just sell the boat to someone from a state that does not title boats and move on lesson learned.

bigmac
07-11-2007, 02:59 PM
I believe that the Statute of Limitations on theft in Florida is 3 years. Not sure if that's germane or not...but it may apply if the boat was indeed stolen by the seller some years before M Shore bought it. It apparently wasnt' stolen in Florida (if it's stolen), but might have been so in another state. OTOH, that state may have a different SOL - could be 5 years there, but also could be 2 years.

A dealer has resources the rest of us don't have. Jim@BAWS will help when he gets his feet back under him...I'd be inclined to utilize that resource before getting the police involved just yet. This might be a simple issue (although the disconnected phone number is worrisome, and it would appear that whoever registered the boat didn't want its hull number in the system).

I mean, the boat is 27 years old. If it was indeed stolen, who knows when that originally occurred? It's conceivable that the investigation has been long-since closed and investigative records destroyed and the Statute of Limitations run out. Even if it was stolen at some point in the last 27 years, it may technically not be a stolen boat any more. If theft can't be proven, it may just be a lost-title paperwork issue.

Monte
07-11-2007, 03:00 PM
I think you just sell the boat to someone from a state that does not title boats and move on lesson learned.

In my opinion.... THAT... is like playing with fire


I think going through the proper channels will be the best way to take care of the situation. If he covers it up he becomes part of the wrong side of the firing line... Just my opinion...

beatle78
07-11-2007, 03:29 PM
yah, I agree w/ bigmac. Wait until JIM@BAWS can help out. Don't do anything until he does his thing....

endl
07-11-2007, 03:40 PM
In my opinion.... THAT... is like playing with fire


I think going through the proper channels will be the best way to take care of the situation. If he covers it up he becomes part of the wrong side of the firing line... Just my opinion...
Yes I agree but my point was he may already be in that situation because he has had possesion of the boat for a length of time that may be deemed as not a reasonable lenth of time for reporting to the authorities in the first place.

Anyway wait on BAWS then at least you will feel better abou the info you get or know you possible got a real problem.

M Shore
07-11-2007, 06:26 PM
hey guys this is all to much. I should also say that the boat when i bought it for 500 bucks was nothing but a hull totally bare. Every bit of wood in it was rotten completly. gotta take baby girl to swimming lessons. Thanks for all the interest .

endl
07-12-2007, 01:19 AM
Now you drop the bomb on us!!!!!! You gotta be kidding me......You should be arrested for not disclosing the whole story.

slink976
07-12-2007, 02:19 AM
lol,..... $500 hell the guy that sold it to you could of simply pulled it from a salvage yard or for that matter the swaps.

Monte
07-12-2007, 02:12 PM
Now you drop the bomb on us!!!!!! You gotta be kidding me......You should be arrested for not disclosing the whole story.

2nd:mad: :rolleyes::D ...

How does it look now:confused:

M Shore
07-12-2007, 09:44 PM
I am new at this picture attaching thing, so bear w/ me.

Monte
07-12-2007, 09:49 PM
I am new at this picture attaching thing, so bear w/ me.


From a $500 shell?:cool: I see your delimma:confused:



Looks great!

M Shore
07-12-2007, 10:05 PM
here is another pic

M Shore
07-12-2007, 10:09 PM
heres from the top

M Shore
07-12-2007, 10:21 PM
I have put quite a bit of time into the boat.
454 mercruiser
hurth1:1
acme 12.75 x 15.25
New everything all I had was a bare shell.
We have put about 250 hours on the boat in the past two years with only one tow to the dock due to dead battery.
Let me not forget alot of imput from a great community of people on this site Thanks everyone.

M Shore
07-13-2007, 09:13 AM
I got a call from a mastercraft rep. They in formed me that due to a computer system change several years ago they no longer have info on the older boats. How many other boat companys would do that for someone with a 27 year old boat? Amazing!!!

Leroy
07-13-2007, 09:37 AM
Nice job M Shore!

Maybe there is a checker past in this boat, but it is great to see it get a second chance!

Good luck and great job on the rebuild! I can only imagine how hard that would be starting from a fiberglass shell.

mdthacker
07-13-2007, 09:58 AM
Excellent work! Because of the time you put into that, I'm sure it will be missed when gone.

On the title situation, with the bill of sale that you have, it is quite possible that your state might require a Indemnity Bond prior to titling. This is an insurance policy which will cover the boat cost if it's found to be stolen. It might be a good idea to get this anyway. Do others have any experience with these??

I am having a slightly similar situation right now because of a used 2002 X-7 that I purchased. Everything is just fine title-wise on the boat, but the prior owner did not have any title for the trailer...

Monte
07-13-2007, 10:09 AM
I have put quite a bit of time into the boat.
454 mercruiser
hurth1:1
acme 12.75 x 15.25
New everything all I had was a bare shell.
We have put about 250 hours on the boat in the past two years with only one tow to the dock due to dead battery.
Let me not forget alot of imput from a great community of people on this site Thanks everyone.


I hate to tell you this story, but It CAN happen. When I was nineteen I bought a 1968 mustang from a dealership/ service shop (little hole in the wall place).
I painted it.
Put a new interior in.
rebuilt the engine.
replaced all the rubber- trim and tires.
replaced the chrome- bumpers, trim, and emblems
And of course at nineteen- THE STEREO AND WHEELS
Turned out to be a sweet little car.

It had sat in the yard of this service shop/ dealership for 8 years. Until I came up to ask about it. Instead of filing a mechanics lein and charging 5 dollars a day for storage, the "dealer" forged the lost title docs. Well the last known owner was contacted via the DMV, made a claim and guess what... She was awarded the car. On the good side the dealer had to reinburse me the $4500 I spent for parts, plus the $$ I paid for the car, but all my labor was gone.. The lady got a brand new 68:( . The car wasn't even running when I purchased it. The only thing I was allowed to remove was the stereo and the wheels because I had kept the originals and was able to put them back on...


Long story short. He had a title to sign over.. so don't feel too bad...

JEREMY79
07-13-2007, 09:19 PM
Let me be the first to say some of this falls on how increditably (sp?) stupid, yeah, I said stupid, that our country has gotten. They could not give you the owners names because of privacy laws. I ran into the same thing with my 69 z-28.

Hoosier Bob
07-13-2007, 09:22 PM
Who could find you anyway Jeremy? I would think anything you had would be lost forever? Only people around are "shiners" and they don't care what you are driving!8p Let me be the first to say some of this falls on how increditably (sp?) stupid, yeah, I said stupid, that our country has gotten. They could not give you the owners names because of privacy laws. I ran into the same thing with my 69 z-28.

M Shore
07-21-2007, 12:55 PM
well I put the boat on ebay with a buy it now price of 4500 dollars and a complete description of the boat and no title issue a young guy in northcarolina bought it drove ten hours to get it got here and declined the sale because he didnt want to have to work on the boat cosmeticaly. mechanicaly the boat is 100%. In the auction I stated that the boat has alot of bumps and bruises. I dont know what he expected for this price. Now I have an E-Bay nightmare to deal with.

JohnE
07-22-2007, 08:52 AM
well I put the boat on ebay with a buy it now price of 4500 dollars and a complete description of the boat and no title issue a young guy in northcarolina bought it drove ten hours to get it got here and declined the sale because he didnt want to have to work on the boat cosmeticaly. mechanicaly the boat is 100%. In the auction I stated that the boat has alot of bumps and bruises. I dont know what he expected for this price. Now I have an E-Bay nightmare to deal with.

So he wanted a $9000 boat for $4500. Can't blame him, but if you were accurate in your description, (I bet you were), his bad.

TMCNo1
07-22-2007, 10:19 AM
Those NC people! And to think, he could have stay here in NC and bought our boat and van for $4,500 and some change!

JohnE
07-22-2007, 11:02 AM
Those NC people! And to think, he could have stay here in NC and bought our boat and van for $4,500 and some change!

Stay right there. I'll be there in 14 hours cash in hand!

M Shore
07-22-2007, 12:53 PM
No jokin, I really need to sell this boat and want it to go to a good home. This is truely a good boat.

M Shore
07-22-2007, 01:02 PM
engine pics

M Shore
07-22-2007, 01:09 PM
engine2 454 mercruiser all new accessories starter ,fuelpump, reman carb, all new belts and hoses, bolth water pumps, 2years on hurth ZF 1:1 trans, this is a very dependable boat.

River Rat
07-22-2007, 01:41 PM
Those NC people! And to think, he could have stay here in NC and bought our boat and van for $4,500 and some change!


:purplaugh And some change:purplaugh if you consider an extrs 20k "some change" I am impressed;)

M Shore
12-10-2007, 09:54 PM
I just brought this back up so those of you looking for parts can see pictures of the boat or 1000 bucks for the boat minus motor and trans