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87MCProstar
06-26-2007, 10:19 AM
Anybody doin back deeps? I'm just starting to fiddle around with them. This morning it was a practice session just learnin how to place my feet. Got 'em in the H2O now just have to get used to it, so i can pick up the speed to try and tripod myself, chest down a.. up feet in the H2O. if someone has tips the more the merrier.

Flatwaterfooter
06-26-2007, 10:33 AM
I can do them off the boom no problem, long line I have not gotten up yet. The key is getting the air pocket and being patient. As soon as you rush it you are done. Also helps to have a good driver. We start off at about 15 mph till feet are planted then the driver brings the speed up slowly. If they get on the throttle to much you will get pulled right over. Good luck.

tex
06-26-2007, 11:21 AM
You sound as though you are doing everything right. I don't do them but have been around and driven a million. Most common mistakes are rushing it and not flexing your feet when you put them in. We want some pictures!

chudson
06-26-2007, 11:32 AM
Ever gone to B.F.C. http://www.barefootcentral.com/ in the cool videos part Keith St.Onge cool video #2 does a deep back and course he makes it look so easy but sometimes it helps to study someone else!!!

edit: by the way I can't do it either (deep back) . Can someone explain the air pocket too, I think I understand but an explainition would be cool!!!

pilot02
06-26-2007, 11:46 AM
Rockman, where are you??
PM Rockman and I'm sure he can help you....

Flatwaterfooter
06-26-2007, 11:47 AM
the air pocket is created from the water coming off of your chest. You "look up" and you are able to breath and open your eyes which helps keep you stable. If you do not get the pocket you run out of air quick and rush things. Once in good position with a pocket you can just cruise like that and practice placing your feet. Probably not the best description but it gives you an idea

jkski
06-26-2007, 11:54 AM
First off let me say congrats on getting to the point that you are ready to try this, it is a lot of fun.
Second, if you do not yet have a neck roll, do yourself a favor and invest in one...you will thank me later.

Sounds like you are right on, and as everyone else has already said, being patient is the key, along with having a good driver. This is one thing that I do only when my wife is around to drive me, as a good driver makes or breaks this, especially when just learning. The slow acceleration is huge once you get your feet planted, otherwise they will simply skim along the top of the water and never dig in, and eventually, you'll catch an edge and get flipped end over end (not fun). By slowly bringing the speed up, you can concentrate on doing thing right, and the bend at the waist is a big part of that, along with bending your knees and bringing your head up.
As far as the "air pocket" goes, all it is, is the tunnel that is created by your chest pushing down on the water, which allows the water to form a well around your head, where you can easily see and take a breath. Think of what happens just behind your boat when youare going about 20+mph....you get a big depression from the water that the boat is displacing right...well, your chest does this same thing, and your head benefits by having space and not being submerged.
Good luck...you'll love it.

Flatwaterfooter
06-26-2007, 12:01 PM
To add on to what jkski was saying do not try and stand up once you do you will catch a foot. Let the water push you up. As you accelerate the water will slowly bring you up. Good advice by all, now I want to head to the lake.

CoFooter
06-26-2007, 12:03 PM
Lots of good advice here. Don't be in a hurry to get up. Its best when learning to stay in a defensive position until you get the feel for the water on your feet. Its easy to get pulled over and frustrated/beat up at this point. Once the water gets "hard" on your feet bend at the waist and stay bent, handle on the small of your back, arms extended, chest out, and head up. Did I say stay bent over, if you don't you're going out the back. Its a little awkward at first but it will help in the long run.

Laurel_Lake_Skier
06-26-2007, 01:32 PM
If you have access to them, use some shoe skis to get the feel of it. As has been said before you must be very patient and a good boat driver is very important. One other thing I have found is that you must resist the urge to press with your toes or "gas peddle". The moment you put pressure on the balls of your feet you will be going over backwards. You need to just let your feet follow the surface of the water and wait then wait some more.

87MCProstar
06-26-2007, 02:19 PM
Sounds like I am doing everything right, I've watched Lane Bower's video 1,000 times. Unfortunately I haven't gotten any pictures, I forgot the camcorder in the car. As far as my driver goes he is learning, but I am being patient enough not to rush. making sure I don't push his learning curve too much. I can use the time to practice my ankle flex and feet placement on the water. Hopefully on thursday when we get out again i'll remember the camera and take pics. i'm super stoked and can't wait to try again.

jkski
06-26-2007, 03:23 PM
You definetly have the right attitude and I give you credit for being patient with your driver, as they have a hard job when it comes to this one.
Good to see you are thinking "ankle flex"... that is huge. Most people try to reach for the water when they are learning, but if you just think "point yout toes to your nose", you'll be just fine.
Someone else mentioned shoe skiis, and they are a great way to learn as they are a bit more forgiving...unless of course you have a size 15 foot, in which case...good for you. The last thing to keep in mind is that you do not need a tone of speed to get backwards, in fact, for learning, I've found you can go slower backwards than forwards, because the water simply flows off your feet, rather than you plowing through it somewhat...this will come in handy for the eventual falls.
Again, good luck and look forward to seeing you progress.

Barefoot57
06-26-2007, 03:56 PM
Hey! Sounds like you are coming along well!

A few words of advice....
Step 1) after getting out of the hole, developing your air pocket, and comfortably riding your chest without bouncing (slow the boat a few 100 rpms if you are), slowly pull your feet off the rope. Spread your legs nice and wide, still riding your chest and keeping the air pocket.

Step 2) Bring your ankles parallel to the surface of the water, with the goal that you are going to find the water with the side of both your big toes at the same time. Some people say flex your ankles to your nose, some say crank your ankles....I say relax your ankles. Don't push back against the water, and don't purposefully flex your ankles inward. Just let the water glide onto your feet. Now, you are riding in backwards 3-point (both big toes and chest). The driver needs to now begin to accelerate moderatley. As you feel the boat speed increase, your body position needs to follow.

Step 3) The driver begins to acclerate, you are going to push your butt up, and at the same time think about putting your chest to the bottom of the lake. The longer you wait after the speed comes on, the harder you are going to have to push (and the more squeeky your voice may become!). Once your butt starts to come off the water, naturally, your chest will begin to lower. Your feet need to start turning in as well. (Think of a being a string puppet with your chest butt and feet tied together, they all need to move together!) Be careful not to rush this step. You don't want to move your body faster than the ability for the water to support your weight at slower speeds. However, as the speed does come up, you will start to feel solid. It is at this time you can bring your chest up, led by your chin and eyes focused on the horizon.

Ski with your ankles as close together as you feel comfortable (confidence comes with practice). Keep the handle in the small of your back at all times! I'd reccomend talking over with your boat driver what you are expecting the pull to be like. Back deeps are hard for non-barefooters, and inexperienced drivers to pull for. Just remember, your body needs to move in unison with the boat speed, and water "hardness", until you are completely up and going.

Good luck!

87MCProstar
06-26-2007, 11:11 PM
These are all great tips to help me out the next time, it feels soo close but i don't want to rush it. i want to get out there tomorrow morning but my buddies have to work :-( there is nothing like pickin the brains of people that have experience

Rockman
06-27-2007, 02:26 PM
Rockman, where are you??
PM Rockman and I'm sure he can help you....

The advice by everyone who responded thus far is correct...

My hardest thing about doing backs was mental, not physical.

You can go out and foot all you want forward, do some turns, some one foots, catch a toe and then get back up, etc. but backs are alot different...you are either up or you are down.

My first problem was doing the gas peddal thing. Once I got that nailed down I had problems with being patient and having the correct body posture (if that makes sense). Then once I got those two things nailed down, I was having the tendancy to not leave far enough away from the boom once I was up. I kept thinking how to stand when footing forward for the most part.

You can ask Erkle and Sassy. It took me only 1 time to mentally understand that last part I described above. It was about 6am on glass water and I was not concentrating once I was up. Erkle's driving was perfect. I lost my concentration for that split second and did about 5 backflips. I had a headache for a week. Seriously...I kinda was afraid to go to the doctor because it hurt so bad...and that was WITH a neckbrace.

So my words of wisdom...
-Use the shoe trainers until you get comfortable
-Wear a neckbrace. No need to sustain any more pain than you have to. Once you get good, lose the neckbrace.
-Think of learning the process in steps as someone else had mentioned earlier on this thread.
-Concentrate on what you are doing!!! There is no substitute for this!!! Picture yourself taking your feet off the line, planting your feet on the water, your body posture, etc.

Good luck! It's a rush once you get it!

Keep us posted on your progress.:toast:

87MCProstar
06-28-2007, 10:37 AM
hey everybody, we were able to go out on the lake this morning again and i kept at the back deep this time I was able to take video so i grabbed some pics, thought you'd like to see
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/87MCProstar/Tim1.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/87MCProstar/Tim2.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/87MCProstar/Tim3.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/87MCProstar/Tim4.jpg
Now all you pros out there after seeing the pics, what do i need to do different?

CoFooter
06-28-2007, 11:53 AM
The only thing I can see from the last picture (photobucket link) is that the foot that I can see that you are trying to plant is in the water at too sharp an angle. That going to cause your foot to catch and skip in the water and your body to bounce until you let go. I don't know if this is happening to you, but it happens to most when the foot is at this angle. Flatten the foot out horizontally if that makes sense. Plant your instep, not your little toe. This will allow you to glide accross the water rather than skip which will allow you to get up to peed under control. Everything else looks OK from what I can see.

CoFooter
06-28-2007, 11:54 AM
Sorry, what I meant to say was plant your instep insted of you big toe, not little toe.

87MCProstar
06-28-2007, 02:07 PM
okay, I think I understand. I should be turning my foot diagonally more so the arch is in the water and not my toes?.?.

jkski
06-28-2007, 02:23 PM
One thing you might consider, which has nothing to do with form...
You may want to try running your boom out the drivers side of the boat. Reason I say this, is that way your driver can have a better view of what is happening and adjust. I have found that this helps me in that I don't have to look past anyone/anything else and can concentrate on my footer, as they have a hard enough job without me making it harder!

Flatwaterfooter
06-28-2007, 02:33 PM
One thing you might consider, which has nothing to do with form...
You may want to try running your boom out the drivers side of the boat. Reason I say this, is that way your driver can have a better view of what is happening and adjust. I have found that this helps me in that I don't have to look past anyone/anything else and can concentrate on my footer, as they have a hard enough job without me making it harder!


Everyone has their own opinions and I am not saying your wrong. I have tried it off of the drivers side and for me i had to turn my head to much to see the footer and was less focused on driving a straight line. I am able to see the footer better on the other side, and the spoter can help also. My 2 cents

jkski
06-28-2007, 03:53 PM
Everyone has their own opinions and I am not saying your wrong. I have tried it off of the drivers side and for me i had to turn my head to much to see the footer and was less focused on driving a straight line. I am able to see the footer better on the other side, and the spoter can help also. My 2 cents

Point well taken and very true, as one way does not work for everyone.

CoFooter
06-28-2007, 04:19 PM
okay, I think I understand. I should be turning my foot diagonally more so the arch is in the water and not my toes?.?.

Some people say plant your ankles which is wrong but what you need to do is get the inside of the foot flatter on the water. When you come to plane, bend at the waist and gently set the inside of your feet on the water. Most of your weight is on your chest at this point, very littl weight is on your feet until you get boat speed. When the water hardens and your gliding along without your feet catching, slowly transfer more weight to your feet and continue your waist bend until the boat pulls you up. Gliding at speed takes some getting used to so you may want to go out the next time and practice only that without worrying about getting up. The correct technique you learn here will greatly enhance your chances when you go to long line. A whole different set of issues but the basics are the same.

87MCProstar
06-28-2007, 08:51 PM
this is totally sweet, after doing this a handful of times i can see myself doing what i am doing now, and even better with the help of all of you i know what i need to fix to make things work.

CoFooter
06-29-2007, 11:35 AM
Good luck, 87. We're looking forward to your victory call after the weekend.

06197ttlq9-footer
06-29-2007, 12:27 PM
Patience grasshopper, Patience. Untill u can nail them off the boom dont even try the long line. driver is the other 50 percent. Find someone who does long line back deeps to drive while you are learning. If you are planting and can breath just wait untill you feel the speed of boat level out and apply constant pressure to the feet. bend at hips keep knees slightly bent.



Look at all these footers :) sup guys!

chudson
06-29-2007, 12:45 PM
Go get'em "87", let us know what happens and bring pictures. Who knows maybe someday I'll drop 60 lbs. get my strenght back and try this. You can do this with all the positive Karma coming your way!!! :headbang:

87MCProstar
06-30-2007, 01:09 AM
keep all that positive karma coming, going out at 7

2RLAKE
06-30-2007, 01:16 AM
also find someone who can do back-deeps and watch, learn and LISTEN. the biggest thing everyone keeps saying is don't rush it ... let it happen ... like my wife says .. opps.... just be patient.

It an unbelievable rush ... especially when you can do a double with someone else next to you .....

87MCProstar
06-30-2007, 11:02 AM
well here is today's adventure, felt a lot better than it did thursday and rode for about twice as long without skipping. There is someone in the area that goes to a different lake that I am tryin' to get in contact with so I can see it done and be pulled by someone who really knows what to do. but here are the pics from this morning.
http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/87MCProstar/?action=view&current=BackDeepStart6-30.jpg
start of plant
http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/87MCProstar/?action=view&current=BackDeepStart46-30.jpg
riding
http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/87MCProstar/?action=view&current=BackDeepStart16-30.jpg

atlfootr
07-01-2007, 09:34 PM
Anybody doin back deeps?
This morning it was a practice session just learnin how to place my feet.
Got 'em in the H2O now just have to get used to it, so i can pick up the speed to try and tripod myself, chest down a.. up feet in the H2O. if someone has tips the more the merrier.TIP #1 TAKE A DAY SESSION w/ PRO before YOU develop any bad habits!

atlfootr
07-01-2007, 09:38 PM
I have tried it off of the drivers side and for me i had to turn my head to much to see the footer and was less focused on driving a straight line. I am able to see the footer better on the other side, and the spoter can help also. My 2 centsWhen driv'n / have footr on drivers side = easier to see feet and body position, also hav'n HZH works really well to tweak skier's stance and feet position.

CoFooter
07-02-2007, 11:43 AM
Angle of the feet looks a lot better, 87. Soung like you are making some progress. Don't put too much weight on the feet too soon. Let the arms all of the way out which will make your chest heavy. Once you get that plant, wait for boat speed and let the pressure of the water flex your ankles forward. At your learning stage a lot of people get impatient and gas pedal their feet to try to leverage themselves up. Avoid doing this. Just wait. I'm 200 lbs and I need about 25MPH to really start to feel the water get hard and begin my waist bend. Good luck.

87MCProstar
07-02-2007, 02:52 PM
thanks co - i'm goin out super early tomorrow with someone who has been driving and doing back deeps for years. so hopefully he'll give both me and my driver tips on makin this a lot easier. as far as being patient, i have no other goal set than to get this dialed in so if it takes all summer it takes all summer. i'll let people know how it goes in the morning.

CoFooter
07-02-2007, 03:56 PM
Took me six months til I was comfortable and nailing it consistently on the boom, and another 6 months for long line. Its worth your time even if it takes all summer. This is what seperates the real footers from the weekend warriors.

Kaser
07-02-2007, 06:22 PM
how do you suggest learning to foot backwords??

should i start with front to backs, or back water start? or should i get on a trick ski and spin around backwords and step off?? I'm looking to ad the backwords barefooting into my arsenal :)

btw, i'm a web developer and have been thinking about making a website about water sports... not just a forum... an actual community website with a ton of features and intigration with youtube for user uploaded videos... oh oh?? :P would anybody be interested in a community site like that? I have the knowledge and everything else it takes to make it.. i just need to know if the forums here are enough for you guys? if you want more be sure to let me know :)

87MCProstar
07-03-2007, 10:26 AM
Well, back from another great morning at the lake. as it was the best one so far. I have a couple of pics to show everybody. My plant is now solid! and not need to add another focus, bringing my feet in and pushing down with chest at the same time to get my chest off the H2O i think. Let me know what you guys think.
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/87MCProstar/7-31.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/87MCProstar/7-32.jpg
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/87MCProstar/7-33.jpg

Rockman
07-03-2007, 10:38 AM
Lookin good...remember to keep your arms straight though. A few more times out and I expect to see some pics of you standing up.

Keep up the good work.

87MCProstar
07-03-2007, 10:46 AM
Thanks Roc, I am hopin to get up soon too. but just like everyone here said paitence is key. so i'm takin it super easy. it was a blast just doin that today, can't wait to see what it feels like standing up!

#47of100TeamMC
07-03-2007, 10:52 AM
I have to hand it to you footin' guys that do the backwards crazy crap... I hope it was a cup day.

tex
07-03-2007, 11:00 AM
Looking good!

CoFooter
07-03-2007, 12:01 PM
Exactly what Rock says. Let those arm all the way out. And get that butt up in the air. Looks like a solid plant. You may be trying to leverage yourself up by pulling in on your arms. Don't do that. Be patient and wait. Concentrate on digging the chin/chest in and start the waist bend. Much easier to do with straight arms. Looks like progress though

Laurel_Lake_Skier
07-03-2007, 12:35 PM
The second photo looks good (as has been mentioned, keep your arms straight). One thing that helps me is to to not even think about getting up from that position.....just hold it and wait. All of a sudden you'll be surprised to see what has happened.

87MCProstar
07-03-2007, 02:22 PM
hey guys, i made a quick 1:30 video of three of the starts today, let me link it to see if it works.

http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/87MCProstar/?action=view&current=59e4f34c.flv

tex
07-03-2007, 02:26 PM
87! Wow you are so close! From listening to the video, it sounds as though your driver is making all the proper speed adjustments! Go get one!

87MCProstar
07-03-2007, 02:27 PM
Tex, can't wait to get it

tex
07-03-2007, 02:29 PM
From a guy who is not getting to ski right now, thanks! IT's fun following your progress. I love learning new things!

#47of100TeamMC
07-03-2007, 02:29 PM
Way to go my friend! way to get back on the horse! You'll get it! I'm pulling for ya!

CoFooter
07-03-2007, 03:58 PM
87, you're so close. Huge progress. You got a great glide going. Looks like you're getting your chin/chest down but getting stuck there. Only bit of fine tuning I can offer when you get stuck (can't bend at the waist and continue that upward motion) is to put more weight on the feet - get them a bit deeper in the water. Don't change the angle at all and definitely dont gas pedal them or push them, but try to force the instep a little deeper. That will help with the resistance you need to keep the butt coming up. Let the feet slowly come under you and at this point your chin /chest will still be close to the water. You're almost there, ski defensively with a big waist bend at first so you don't get up and go out the back.

Again, great progress, you're within single digit attempts and you're going to make it.

Kaser
07-04-2007, 02:05 AM
awesome shots! I tried it once just to see what it was like.. jumped right into it with no backwords experience ever... did everything right except right when i got up... boom both heels dugg... bye bye me :)

on that video you wheren't joking. your planting is solid!

87MCProstar
07-04-2007, 04:43 PM
everyone thanks for the support, when i'm out on the H2O it feels like hear everyones support and tips helping get through this tough stage. problably won't get out in the next couple of days but i'll keep you posted. thanks again all the support and tips are helpin a bunch!

Flatwaterfooter
07-05-2007, 09:56 AM
From the video you posted you have got the hard part down. Looks like you may need to push with your chest more to get upright. Great job.

87MCProstar
07-06-2007, 02:34 PM
flat, i was thinkin push down more with chin/chest and pull feet together. goin out again in the morning give it another shot.

krbaugh
07-06-2007, 11:51 PM
Raise the boom up. This will help you come up. From the very start let your arms all the way out. As the speed starts to pick up bring your feet together and your toes pointing back as you come up. IT is very difficult to come up on the sides of your feet it makes it easier to plant but very difficult to come up. I think about pushing with my chin not my chest

87MCProstar
07-07-2007, 11:34 AM
went to the lake at 6:45 and it was a no go, 2 boats slalomning in each bay. with the concrete sea walls here it was too rollie. doesn't help by 7:30 there was people already tubing. gotta love the holdiay weekends

theDano
07-08-2007, 11:32 AM
great thread......look forward to you getting up. It is encouraging me to attempt this. Seeing a video is really helpful

Good luck 87!!!!

87MCProstar
07-08-2007, 04:54 PM
i thought the video added a touch more than pictures can show. plus who wouldn't like to hear a good crash and the reaction from the boat? i think its like driving by an accident on the street.

barefoot
07-09-2007, 04:23 PM
I had a chance to get pulled a few dozen times this weekend. I had a few questions I hope ya’ all would help me with:

1. Off the pull, do I want my arms straight or bent?
2. There were a few times I would start bouncing. Is that caused because I was being pulled too fast and didn’t have a good plant?
3. When I plant, I planted the ball of my foot until a little before my ankle. I tried to keep my foot flat against the water. Is this about the planting position I want?
4. When I felt I had a solid plant and the boat was accelerating, a lot of the time my heal would bury. What’s happening?


Here’s two pictures before my battery went dead. Any pointers?

krbaugh
07-09-2007, 05:21 PM
1. Off the pull, do I want my arms straight or bent?
Straight

2. There were a few times I would start bouncing. Is that caused because I was being pulled too fast and didn’t have a good plant?

To fast or you raised your head/chest off the water

3. When I plant, I planted the ball of my foot until a little before my ankle. I tried to keep my foot flat against the water. Is this about the planting position I want?

Yes relax your ankles dont push out against the water

4. When I felt I had a solid plant and the boat was accelerating, a lot of the time my heal would bury. What’s happening?

Your tried to stand up toooo fast. Remember to rotate your feet so you are trying to come up on the bottom of your foot not the side of your foot but you doo this as the speed comes up and you bring your feet together a bit

peason
07-09-2007, 10:49 PM
great thread......look forward to you getting up. It is encouraging me to attempt this. Seeing a video is really helpful

Good luck 87!!!!

Dano, we are about the same age - I would like to learn how to do this also, but I don't have anyone around to coach me and spend the time learning. Tell you what - you go first!

CoFooter
07-10-2007, 12:00 PM
Peason,

Go to this forum. In addition to finding out a lot about barefooting, you can post in the Locate a Footer for someone to ski/learn with in Minnesota. Tons of footers in Minnesota. Good luck

http://www.barefootworlds.com/ABCForum/

87MCProstar
07-10-2007, 02:43 PM
hey everybody, got out to the lake this morning and was able to take 2 solid attempts at the back deep before things got out of hand. here is a 30 sec video of myself actually getting off of the water for a brief second before crashing. enjoy as I did!!!
http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/87MCProstar/?action=view&current=26accec3.flv

here is a pic of the crash
http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/87MCProstar/?action=view&current=Crash.jpg

I'd take a crash like that again to get the feeling of going backwards on a daily basis.

jkski
07-10-2007, 03:06 PM
You are so close. It looks like you just needed a bit more bend at the waist, which means driving that chest/chin into the water harder (at least from what I could see on the video).
You have come a long way in a short period of time..keep at it and you'll have it.
Couldn't tell if you were wearing a neck roll or not, but you should consider one if you don't already have one.
Good luck.

chudson
07-10-2007, 03:25 PM
I am really enjoying this thread "87" thanks!!! Speaking as a "none deep back starter" it looks like your almost there. Keep it up Bud your doin great!!!!

CoFooter
07-10-2007, 03:58 PM
Yes, 87, bend at the waist and keep the chest down close to the water. It may seem counterintuitive, but once you start coming up to the point you are you want to actually resist coming up further until you really get the feel for backwards skiing. The boat will tend to keep pulling you up onto your heels and out the back until you find that perfect position of resistance. Way to prevent that is skiing defensively at first and really resist coming all the way up until you get the feel for skiing backwards. You may want to have the boat driver stop the acceleration once your butt comes up and hold you at that speed until you get used to skiing backwards. Great job with the backs and now just work on mastering that backwards form.

krbaugh
07-10-2007, 06:06 PM
Your are getting there!
make sure you wait wait wait to come up after you chine comes off the water start raising your head up so your are not so bent at the waist it is very easy to come up toooo far if you stay that bent at the waist


Oh one more thing that was pretty rolly water the smoother the better especially in the beginning

tex
07-10-2007, 06:59 PM
Nice try in those rollers!

87MCProstar
07-11-2007, 01:22 AM
thanks guys, i had to give it one more shot. i am takin it now is the time where the patience is really tested, when you get off the water and want to get to final back standing position. i am going to heed all advise and keep takin it slow, and i did purchase a neck brace as soon as i got back into town after i got my chin off the water. so i'll be wearing it regularly. i don't want to learn how to ski in a chair.

Kaser
07-11-2007, 01:40 AM
god man you're so close!!! I can't wait till I get dedicated enough to go out there and train as often as possible to get up backwords :P

btw, neckbrace = smart choice :)

chudson
07-11-2007, 09:21 AM
Do you do any stretching before you go out???

tex
07-11-2007, 11:37 AM
thanks guys, i had to give it one more shot. i am takin it now is the time where the patience is really tested, when you get off the water and want to get to final back standing position. i am going to heed all advise and keep takin it slow, and i did purchase a neck brace as soon as i got back into town after i got my chin off the water. so i'll be wearing it regularly. i don't want to learn how to ski in a chair.
Is this a dig at us foilers?

CoFooter
07-11-2007, 12:15 PM
Foiling, now that looks like fun. Something to do when the lakes choppy. Tried it a few times and couldn't get up out of the water. Always fall to one side. We need a learn to foil thread.

87MCProstar
07-11-2007, 11:09 PM
I don't consider you guys foilers, more like extra coaches. tips from here have gotten my chest off the water and semi-backwards barefooting in less than a month skiing 2 times a week! so if you think that foiling keep it comin'

tex
07-11-2007, 11:58 PM
I don't consider you guys foilers, more like extra coaches. tips from here have gotten my chest off the water and semi-backwards barefooting in less than a month skiing 2 times a week! so if you think that foiling keep it comin'
skyski and air chair foilers!

atlfootr
07-14-2007, 12:31 PM
Don't you foilers have your own thread?
How'd you end up on "Barefoot Backdeeps" :confused:

tex
07-14-2007, 12:40 PM
He took a dig first! If my dad was alive, he could beat up your dad!

atlfootr
07-14-2007, 12:42 PM
Foiling, now that looks like fun. Something to do when the lakes choppy. Tried it a few times and couldn't get up out of the water. Always fall to one side. We need a learn to foil thread.I'll do you guys a favor and make one :D

87MCProstar
07-16-2007, 03:20 PM
now i get it, didn't understand 'foilers'

Flatwaterfooter
07-16-2007, 09:33 PM
Whats the update 87

87MCProstar
07-17-2007, 03:34 PM
I had to work this morning after I had a GREAT day on the lake and finishing up the windows video file to post. as soon as it is finished i'll put it up...

87MCProstar
07-17-2007, 03:49 PM
hey everyone here is the video from this morning, I was skiing with Tommy Cleveland from bantam lake and he just told me to slide my feet closer together then i should be all set. let me know what you guys think

http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/87MCProstar/?action=view&current=7-17Backdeep.flv

tex
07-17-2007, 03:54 PM
87,

You are at the point when they are just about ready to click. You just need some more sets and they will rock! It's just a matter of time! My mouth is watering watching them. Keep it up and long line is not far away!

chudson
07-17-2007, 04:17 PM
hey everyone here is the video from this morning, I was skiing with Tommy Cleveland from bantam lake and he just told me to slide my feet closer together then i should be all set. let me know what you guys think

http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/87MCProstar/?action=view&current=7-17Backdeep.flv

I sure wish I could jump in and help you but I don't know jack squat about it, but your sure lookin better. Keep up the good work!!!! :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
I have to ask you, have you ever trick skied backwards ? I would think that would be a huge helper in knowing the sensation of going backwards on water!!!

Flatwaterfooter
07-17-2007, 04:24 PM
You are getting it everytime just a matter of getting upright more. Congrats

CoFooter
07-17-2007, 05:41 PM
87, Congratulations on the start. I agree with trying to bring your legs back together once you get up. As you get more used to the start, you should be able to plant at shoulder width and get up in more of a skiing position. It takes time to learn to ski backwards especially at speed because your body/mind/muscles are still learning how to apply the proper resistance. Relax your ankles completely. You should be leaning forward to a point where your heels are off the water. If the water gets too close to your heels your going to ring your bell. At this stage, skiing too "clean" is a bad thing because the margin for error is practically none until you get used to it. One thing that may help is to have the driver stop accelerating once your butt/chest comes off the water, that way the boat will have less of a tendency to pull you over and you have some time to figure out that form. You may feel like you're plowing a bit, but that beats a concussion any day until you get used to it. Again, congratulations for getting the start. I'm impressed by your motivation and ability to learn it in such a short time.

Kaser
07-17-2007, 06:12 PM
looking good man!!! Can't wait to see your first full run with a back deep start :)

87MCProstar
07-17-2007, 09:36 PM
thats guys, and hud this is my first attempt at skiing backwards. at 30-35 mph. it probably wouldn't be a bad thing to have done it that way the get used to going backwards but i don't know anyone that has a trick ski. i feel like i am at the point of total frustration, it feels awesome to be off the water and riding at the 90* position, but the time and patience to get comfortable to be standing in normal back position is getting tough. but i have invested too much time and effort to get frustrated about not standing up, plus my ski buddy who hasn't been foot' as long as i have is trin this same thing and i won't let him get it dailed before me. gotta love a little competition. thanks again guys for the support and suggestions i'll make sure to keep everyone updated!

tex
07-18-2007, 01:23 AM
87,

I know I gave you very generic comments but I feel you are at the stage where you just need to go out and rip it. When I see people get to this point in learning(no matter if it's jumping, footing, foiling), I just say relax, be a d(ck, and go out and ski. The only thing you lack is experience. As I said before, it is about to click! Go out and stomp it!

chudson
07-18-2007, 08:50 AM
87, I just say relax, be a d(ck, and go out and ski. The only thing you lack is experience. As I said before, it is about to click! Go out and stomp it!

That sounds like great advice ^^^, you look real good just keep it up!!!

CoFooter
07-18-2007, 12:09 PM
Take tex's advice and just do it. A very, very, good skier once told me it takes 200 times skiing backwards to really get the hang of it and be comfortable - you're at three. So keep at it.

atlfootr
07-18-2007, 12:28 PM
Got my wife do'n bckdeeps these days, soon to be stand'n on her feet longer than 100 yards :D

87MCProstar
07-18-2007, 01:04 PM
got it, taken the tampon out

CoFooter
07-18-2007, 02:23 PM
hehehehehehe - good one.

I had someone teaching me a while back say after watching me struggle a bit "do you sit down when you pee, too???" Needless to say I nailed the trick the next time. Nothing like humility to re-motivate you.

Hey, we never said it was easy, just that it was KOOOOOOOL!!!

87MCProstar
07-19-2007, 02:25 PM
footer thats a good one too, we'll usually take whatever we can to keep grabbin' them and sucking it up.

TRBenj
07-20-2007, 02:44 PM
footer thats a good one too, we'll usually take whatever we can to keep grabbin' them and sucking it up.

'87, Ive been following this thread because learning the back deep has been on my list of things to do. I actually got a golden opportunity this past weekend and got some instruction from Mike Seipel- very cool guy. He had me up in just a few tries- it was awesome. I was also able to watch him give instruction to one other guy doing the same thing- so I was able to take good notes on technique, boat speed, etc.

I didnt check your videos, but here were a few things that made a big difference:

-shoe skis! We practiced everything on the shoe skis first and once I had that down, only then did I move to my feet. The transition was easy once I understood the basics.

-boom height. We had a BI boom with both extensions mounted very low on the pylon and it was WAY up there. We also had all 5 guys in the boat sitting on the opposite gunnel.

-speed. With the boom height so high, the boat was barely on plane when the foot plant started (maybe 10 mph). Once comfortable, Mike brought the speed up to about 15 while on the shoe skis, and about 23 when on our feet. I couldnt believe we could go that slow.

I want to get out there and practice again very soon (maybe Sunday AM on Tyler). Driving will be critical- so Ill have to give my dad some good instructions. If youre around and want to give it a go, let me know.

Edit: I just took a look at the last video and youre there! The hard part is over- very nicely done without learning with the shoes. My 3 tips would make you a lot more comfortable though (higher boom, slower speed and using the shoes). Once I was up, I felt like I could go all day long.

chudson
07-20-2007, 03:16 PM
Good post TRBenj!!!

87MCProstar
07-20-2007, 04:08 PM
TRBenji,
I am always up for givin it a go! especially with someone who has tips like you do. I'll PM you with my cell # if you are gonna make it happen and are serious about the invitation i'll bring gas. THANKS!!!!
Tim

87MCProstar
07-22-2007, 01:02 PM
Went out this morning with TRBenji from the board, and got up cleanly a couple of times in full back position. still a couple twicks here and there but i've got it, just seemed to click today. but sorry guys i forgot the camcorder this morning so no video or pics. just wanted to keep everyone updated.

theDano
07-22-2007, 01:25 PM
sweet! congrats. Would love to see a vid. Like I said earlier, you have motivated me into learning that trick. now once you have mastered that for a while.....next will be front to back and back to fronts :)

Kaser
07-22-2007, 03:14 PM
good job man! :)

87MCProstar
07-24-2007, 11:46 PM
went out this morning but it was a waste of a day, nothing worked. forwards/backwards, used it as a teaching day for my buddies

tex
07-24-2007, 11:47 PM
went out this morning but it was a waste of a day, nothing worked. forwards/backwards, used it as a teaching day for my buddies
You will have those days-forget them-Brainfart!

87MCProstar
07-25-2007, 02:41 PM
yeah they do happen but it ruined the rest of my day, because all i did was reflect on everything i did wrong. i'm just hoping thats gonna make things that much better

tex
07-25-2007, 03:42 PM
Let it go...You can learn from bad days but you can also let them drag you down. Drink a beer and kill the next set!

87MCProstar
07-25-2007, 05:44 PM
tex, took care of that last night, a little rumple and a couple beers, i'm all set for tomorrow morning!

tex
07-26-2007, 12:37 AM
Congrats-Now go kick those back deeps in the ars!

87MCProstar
07-26-2007, 07:48 PM
here is a short vid from this morning only enough good water for 3 shots. it was a lot better than the other day though. enjoy.

http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/87MCProstar/?action=view&current=7-25.flv

tex
07-26-2007, 08:01 PM
87-I was ready for your 1 foot! Wow, you are bouncing on the front end a lot. I sent your video to a buddy(ex pro show skier) who BBF's really well and is a great teacher. I will get back to you.

87MCProstar
07-26-2007, 08:02 PM
tex, thats very cool of you thanks.

atlfootr
07-29-2007, 10:28 AM
Started a friend's son doin'n bckdeeps the other day, now on stage 2 !:cool:

87MCProstar
07-29-2007, 03:53 PM
what is stage 2 to u?

87MCProstar
08-01-2007, 06:19 PM
hey everyone, went out again this morning and i'm bangin' em' out just about everytime, rippin' 400 yard runs at a time, and for the fun of it today i tried my first bomb out it was pretty fun. it was great to get out and have good runs of everything forwards and backwards!!! i'm supper stoked

CoFooter
08-01-2007, 07:11 PM
Hey, 87, are you crashing after 400 yds or just dropping? You learned that once you get the technique down, its like riding a bike. All muscle memory. Great job. Keep at it and next summer you'll be ready for behind the boat.

87MCProstar
08-01-2007, 07:31 PM
i'm dropping at 400 yds most of the time, but there are still a couple of crashes. but the good thing about the crashes is that i can feel them coming like i can goin' forwards so they aren't a HUGE surprise anymore. so you think i should stay on the extension for the rest of the season??

barefoot
08-02-2007, 09:24 AM
Love doing bomb outs! I use to do it in our ski shows...when I do it on the lake, there are usually a few fellow boaters that clap as you foot by.

Flatwaterfooter
08-02-2007, 09:35 AM
What is the bomb out?

jbfootin
08-02-2007, 10:27 AM
What is the bomb out?
2 ski jump out...They are fun:D

CoFooter
08-02-2007, 11:59 AM
87,

You really need to perfect your technique on the short line before you get behind the boat. Any flaw in your technique will make it impossible to get up. The boom provides a lot of leverage to cheat that you won't have with the long line. If you are super comfortable getting up on the short rope, try lowering the boom a bit and see how that works. If thats comfortable attach a 10ft section of the barefoot rope to your short rope and try that. You'll notice a big difference. Then just imagine 70 or 80ft back. You need to wait a lot longer and get used to riding on your chest longer, and have to deal with turbulence and stern rollers. Driver/coach is much more important at this point so go find one or see a pro.

JB,

I was thinking of trying a bombout on one ski but I'm paranoid that my foot will catch in the boot as I'm coming out and I'll take a header into the ski. any tip on technique????

Hollywood
08-02-2007, 12:03 PM
CoFooter, scooch out of the front binding a little extra. Remove the heel if you haven't done so already.

87
One last tip, not that you need it, but I didn't see this posted.

When you're almost all the way up, angling your feet back to parallel from the starting V shape helps support more of your weight and use much less muscle. This will allow you to stand up higher w/o having to increase boat speed. You can play with this even after you are fully standing up, point your toes back out then parallel and feel the difference. Now it's time to start 1 foots!

Tim, nice work getting him going. It's amazing how much you can learn from a pro like Seipel in 1 hour!

I haven't been backwards since October of last year, this thread is reminding me how much fun it was. I need to get out with Erk soon. Also, once vacation/wally season is over i'll get back out there on my own lake. One of my ski buddies finally learned to go backwards, he was actually on the boat with TRBenj when he learned too. Now I have a driver who knows what the hell is going on , which is crucial.

jbfootin
08-02-2007, 12:22 PM
87,


JB,

I was thinking of trying a bombout on one ski but I'm paranoid that my foot will catch in the boot as I'm coming out and I'll take a header into the ski. any tip on technique????
I actually learned bomb out on one ski. When I joined a ski team I had to learn how to jump out of two skis and that felt weird for a while. Like Hollywood said just make sure your bindings are loose and you will be fine. I think that I was more comfortable and less paranoid about hitting the ski when I jumped out of 1, since as soon as you are out of the ski your feet go out to the sides. With 2 your feet are simply going forward and your landing in front of your skies, so you have to make sure to clear them. Even with that you don't have to jump real high to clear, since the skies drop back pretty quick. Good luck!

chudson
08-02-2007, 12:34 PM
87,I was thinking of trying a bombout on one ski but I'm paranoid that my foot will catch in the boot as I'm coming out and I'll take a header into the ski. any tip on technique????

I have an old ski that's my barefoot ski, it has no front binding but it does have a rear toe strap. I come up draging a leg but the pressure of the ski against the the foot keeps it in place on the ski. If your worried about catching a toe on the binding this sounds like the way to try, goodluck !!!:twocents:

CoFooter
08-02-2007, 01:01 PM
I have a step off with just the front toe part of the binding and no rear toe plate or anything. I usually come out dragging a foot anyway. Good advice to try to scooch the foot back a bit before the hop just to get a little extra clearance behind the binding. I'll give it a try. Thanks guys for the advice.

barefoot
08-02-2007, 01:30 PM
Here's a video of a one ski bomb out (http://barefootcentral.com/2007_Footstock_Frame.htm)...we'll, kind of! You'll see what I mean when you play it. It's funny...dude says he can't foot, but he pulls stuff like this.

Hollywood
08-02-2007, 02:28 PM
Even with that you don't have to jump real high to clear, since the skies drop back pretty quick.

You don't have to jump "up" at all! I've been trying to teach my buddies the bomb out and they leap out of the damn skis so high they bury their toes on the way down every time.

TRBenj
08-02-2007, 03:17 PM
Tim, nice work getting him going. It's amazing how much you can learn from a pro like Seipel in 1 hour!

Now I have a driver who knows what the hell is going on , which is crucial.

True and true. I went a week after going with Seipel and didnt fair as well- what a difference a little instruction and experienced driving will make. Now Ive got 2 drivers who have pulled me a few times- theres certainly a learning curve but we're all getting more consistent.

HW, just get out there and suck some water. Ive made several shoe ski runs off an '86, so the killer spray shouldnt keep you from trying!

Ive also got to try a bomb out this year. Footers Edge (http://www.thefootersedge.com/traumacenter/info/ne67.htm) has some decent tips.

tex
08-03-2007, 12:48 AM
87-Great to hear you are rocking it. This maybe a little late but I just got a reply back from my buddy. He had trouble with the link. Listen to what he says. He is a great teacher!

"Boat speed is too fast for him to take his feet off the rope and not put them right in the water. Either he needs to get his feet right in the water, or the boat needs to accelerate to a slower speed until he plants his feet. He also needs a couple of more mph once he is going. Let me know if this helps."

atlfootr
08-05-2007, 10:58 AM
Wife :steering: went out early this am and I attempted about a million longline backdeeps succesufully nailed 2-3,
ended on a forward longline pull to finish the session :rolleyes:
Now taken Chaz out for a spin ...

87MCProstar
08-05-2007, 12:58 PM
tex, thats perfect, i went the other day with one run with the camera but the first one it wasn't rolling. on the first run we were doin 37 but the second was 35, and the driver & passenger noticed a huge spray difference. i haven't been on here in a couple days i've been house sitting so i didn't here the wise words of not going behind the boat...i took my first long line run w/ shoe skis on today, i think it went okay...check it out.
http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/87MCProstar/?action=view&current=89a58f48.flv

CoFooter
08-06-2007, 01:12 PM
87, impressive. You're definitely making a heck of a lot of progress much sooner than the average guy. I'm impressed. YOu may want to plant a little narrower, especially when you go to your feet, but everything else looks really, really, good. Great job.

TRBenj
08-06-2007, 03:40 PM
tex, thats perfect, i went the other day with one run with the camera but the first one it wasn't rolling. on the first run we were doin 37 but the second was 35, and the driver & passenger noticed a huge spray difference. i haven't been on here in a couple days i've been house sitting so i didn't here the wise words of not going behind the boat...i took my first long line run w/ shoe skis on today, i think it went okay...check it out.
http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/87MCProstar/?action=view&current=89a58f48.flv

Thats awesome. Good call on the shoe skis- that makes everything so much easier (I invested in a pair as well). I havent tried a long line run yet, but you made that look pretty easy. Youre making great progress!

87MCProstar
08-06-2007, 04:21 PM
thanks guys,
benji when can we get back out there again?

chudson
08-06-2007, 05:23 PM
87 it's alot of fun getting in here and seeing what everyone has to say and seeing your progress you look great keep up the good work!!!

87MCProstar
08-06-2007, 05:58 PM
thanks hud, it awesome now how i'm able to move around side to side comfortably now off the extension. two months ago i thought i'd never get it.

TRBenj
08-06-2007, 06:04 PM
thanks guys,
benji when can we get back out there again?

Soon! I'll be in ME this weekend (see the post on the CCFan-sponsored INT event), but I expect to be around the next 2 weekends. Ill shoot you a PM once I know for sure.

87MCProstar
08-06-2007, 08:00 PM
sweet, i'll be traveling to FL on the 13th but should be back by sunday.