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mitch
02-09-2005, 06:49 PM
Another riviting subject for the winter months. I have a 1999 50hp 2-stroke merc, and a 4 chan (50w/per) JVC stereo driving 4 Clariion 6.5's Sound great, but cuts out if the volume get too high. Is there something wrong, or is it just sucking too much pwr for the generator (or whatever charges the batt) to handle? Idea's, guesses, anything!?! Thanks!

JimN
02-09-2005, 10:05 PM
What wire gauge did you use for the amp? If it's too small, the voltage drops and the amp will run hot, causing the protection circuit to shut it down. An amp can also shut down due to low voltage, which happens on hard bass notes. The amp's protection senses short circuits, overheat, low voltage and DC at the output. Loose battery terminals and bad connections anywhere in the system will cause these problems, too.

bradamerry
02-09-2005, 10:09 PM
JimN, you are the man :headbang: !!! You know everything. How about a lose tow bar on an 87', can Farmer and I fix that puppy?

P.S. Mitch, I'm not trying to steal your thread dude, sorry!!!

Farmer Ted
02-09-2005, 10:12 PM
JimN, you are the man :headbang: !!! You know everything. How about a lose tow bar on an 87', can Farmer and I fix that puppy?

P.S. Mitch, I'm not trying to steal your thread dude, sorry!!!

What's wrong with your tow bar?

bradamerry
02-09-2005, 10:13 PM
What's wrong with your tow bar?
You can move it about an inch, to the left??? Damn Skylon :mad: !!!

milkmania
02-09-2005, 10:35 PM
Damn Skylon :mad: !!!

is there something I should know here???

like before I use mine this summer


also wondering which item you have labeled the towbar

bradamerry
02-09-2005, 10:37 PM
The one you mount the Skylon on.

milkmania
02-09-2005, 10:39 PM
oh, I see....the pylon

hey, you started this train wreck........lmao! :D


seriously, was trying to determine which one was the tow bar

bradamerry
02-09-2005, 10:40 PM
oh, I see....the pylon

hey, you started this train wreck........lmao! :D


seriously, was trying to determine which one was the tow bar


The bar you tow skiers from ;) !

milkmania
02-09-2005, 10:41 PM
:toast:

freaking ten character rule!

milkmania
02-09-2005, 10:43 PM
Another riviting subject for the winter months.



I guess it just went downhill from here, eh?


lol:purplaugh

bradamerry
02-09-2005, 10:47 PM
I guess it just went downhill from here, eh?


lol:purplaugh


The site does this a lot!! You have to make it down to Greeson this summer!! I have extra camp sites for some of the holidays this summer. Farmer will be there, so you can just bring your camper, we will have two MCs there. And anybody, that knows how, can use mine!!!! And Farmer has a course :( !!

milkmania
02-09-2005, 10:50 PM
yeah, I was sure lookin' at them pork chops:worthy:

bradamerry
02-09-2005, 10:52 PM
yeah, I was sure lookin' at them pork chops:worthy:

The Wildman will cook THE BEST RIBS you may ever eat on those summer holidays!!!

mitch
02-10-2005, 09:37 AM
Jim, The amp is build into the head unit. I would love to run an external 4-chan amp, but after this started happening, I figured no way that was going to work. I did the install, so loose wire's etc. are always a possibility :) If all else fails, I may try to run the hot direct to the batt with an in-line fuse. I picked up hot under the console somewhere. Thanks for the feedback!

Brad, No worries on the hi-jack, I did say "Idea's, guesses, anything!?!" and that falls under the anything 8p

east tx skier
02-10-2005, 10:14 AM
The site does this a lot!! You have to make it down to Greeson this summer!! I have extra camp sites for some of the holidays this summer. Farmer will be there, so you can just bring your camper, we will have two MCs there. And anybody, that knows how, can use mine!!!! And Farmer has a course :( !!

Sounds like the Farmer may be in the market for some magnets soon, too, considering his perfect pass upgrade.

east tx skier
02-10-2005, 10:15 AM
The Wildman will cook THE BEST RIBS you may ever eat on those summer holidays!!!

Brad, do you have a good rib mop recipe? Or do you dry rub and leave 'em alone?

bradamerry
02-10-2005, 10:38 AM
Brad, do you have a good rib mop recipe? Or do you dry rub and leave 'em alone?

Secert sauce and how you cook them!! :rolleyes:

JimN
02-10-2005, 10:50 AM
Mitch- what are you listening to and how high are you turning up the volume control? If you're turning it up too high, the amp will intermittently cut out. This is called "Motorboating" in the audio world. How fitting. No, really. That's what it's called when thei happens. If the problem goes away at a slightly lower level, you may be able to fix it by using heavier wier to the head unit, but if you need to turn it up really high to get the volume you want, a separate amp is needed because the head unit isn't powerful enough.

Rule of thumb- don't believe the powere specs unless it's rated as X Watts/ch, both or all channels driven, 20Hz-20KHz RMS +/- 3dB. Any other rating is meaningless and really just to make people think it puts out real power. All of the other ratings like JBF(Just Before Fire), WLS(When Lightning Strikes), Maybe and Once are are not truthful.

"That's the most blatant case of false advertising I've ever seen".

mitch
02-10-2005, 12:18 PM
Jim, I'm listening mostly to gangsta rap. :rolleyes: Actually it cuts out on most anything, even the Red Sox broadcasts. I don;t like too high, but higher than it will go. I will look at moving to a higher guage wire, and for sure a 200w 4-chan amp will smoke a 50wx4 headunit. If I can fix this problem, I will throw an amp an see what happens. If I pickup the speed the problem is a little less prevalent. Thanks again Jim!

Ben
02-10-2005, 12:55 PM
If you throw an amp in, keep in mind the small alternator on the outboard may not overcome the amp & stereo. One of my friends keeps his 'toon on a trickle charger to make sure is starts on a regular basis...

Don't know any technical specs like alternator output, amp current draw, just an fyi.

JimN
02-10-2005, 01:00 PM
OK, re: the power rating- look at the fuse on the head unit and notice its rating. Probably around 15A. Ohm's Law states that P(ower)=I(current)xE(voltage). Best case, assuming 100% efficiency at 13.5V, a 15A draw means that the head unit puts out 202.5W. 100% efficiency doesn't happen. 50% is more of a real world situation, so 101.25W. Maybe at 1K, but not throughout the audio spectrum, and definitely not with both channels driven. Now factor in any wiring deficiencies, corrosion on terminals since it's in a boat and who knows what the stator puts out after it's regulated, and the conclusion- you need more power if it's not loud enough for wht you want.

Leroy
02-10-2005, 01:10 PM
Jim/Mitch; I would guess it is connectors more than wire resistance. But generally bigger wire has better connectors. Smaller wire has poorer connectors so problem is solved, but it was the connector. Obviously bigger wire and good connector is best!

example, you can plug any number you want in:
Say power total =300 watts
Current = Watts/Voltage = 300/12 = 25 amps
V(drop)= Current*Resistance of wire(14 gauge)
= 25*0.00297*20Feet
= 1.49 volts drop, depends on radio and battery if this is a problem.

Or Power in wire = Volts*Current or 1.49*25 = 37.25 distributed watts in the wire.

If your connector had 0.2 ohms then you would have
V(drop)= 25*0.2
= 5 volts

Or power in connector of 5*25 = 125 watts. Should be a hot spot.

I assumed steady current and ignored RMS and peak currents and converting.

JimN
02-10-2005, 01:37 PM
I only thought about wire resistance initially because when I see 50W/ch, I'm not thinking about a head unit for this output level. They're getting better, but it's not a realistic number. That much voltage drop is definitely significant and if the head unit is run into distortion, the speakers are going to be toast. I would back off so it never cuts out and go with the higher power ASAP. It'll sound better at low volume, too.

bradamerry
02-10-2005, 03:18 PM
Sounds like the Farmer may be in the market for some magnets soon, too, considering his perfect pass upgrade.
Farmer is buying us a PP??

mitch
02-10-2005, 03:34 PM
Jim, Not sure if I was clear, and I've been thinking back some more about the problem, When I said it was cutting out, the headunit appears to power cycle itself. Thanks!

Thrall
02-10-2005, 04:27 PM
Another riviting subject for the winter months. I have a 1999 50hp 2-stroke merc, and a 4 chan (50w/per) JVC stereo driving 4 Clariion 6.5's Sound great, but cuts out if the volume get too high. Is there something wrong, or is it just sucking too much pwr for the generator (or whatever charges the batt) to handle? Idea's, guesses, anything!?! Thanks!

Leroy and Jim have done a fine job of explaining where your parasitic power losses to the speakers could be and how this affects volume and sound quality.
You say your stereo is 50W x 4ch. On the box it probably said "200W stereo". These are instantaneous peak power ratings. When looking at amps you should be more interested in RMS power, which is the level the amp is capable of working at continuously.
For some more good reading, in laymans terms, check out a Crutchfield catalog, or they may have the same info on their site. Gives considerations necessary when choosing amplifiers/speakers, etc.
One other thing, if you want to power your speakers w/ an external amp, if you intend to run 4 speakers off the amp efficiently, your stereo needs 2 sets of preamp outputs and you need a 4 channel amp (or 2 - 2 channel amps).