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SnSnj
06-02-2007, 05:43 PM
well here goes for my first post

last summer i bought an 81 stars and stripe with a pcm 351 and a velvet drive, the hour meter read 28hrs, and i picked it up at anawsome price. no weather the hour meter is completely true, only god will know, but the boat was super clean, and after skiing off of a 20 ft penn yann my whole life, the baby blue sns was a welcome releif if it was just for the eyes. turn out though the boat was pretty much cherry. sure it had sat for a while and needed plugs, wires, oil change, fresh gas and a little pursuasion, but soon enough she was towing again. at 19 years old, i was happy with my purchase. although there was one problem that scared me with the boat. it ran hot, so immediatly the strainer, water pump and most importantly the manifolds were under suspscion. well after two months opf dealing with a wamr blooded motor it was august and summer was over. i live in nj and attend school in florida, so that boat came out and got covered. thats when the fun began.

my first break from school was thanksgiving, over the four days that i was home, the motor was poped out and set up for winter in the garage. as it turns out in my haste to button up the boat before i left for school, i must have put the plug back in the hull, and with the fall rainstorms, the cover filled with water, ripped along the windsheild seam, and filled the hull up to the exhaust manifolds. not to worry though, pops drained the hull, and found room for the boat to take up residency in an empty warehouse bay out of the elements. i had already planned on popping the motor out of the boat because of its temperature problems and just to run through everything. so over thanksgiving the motor came out.

the next time home was a bit longer, it was christmas break. for about a month i was home and didnt have much money so i spent most of my time working. this didnt leave me much time for the boat, but it did give me enough money to order some new manifolds and risers. but teardown of the motor also began, it was imply to remove the old manifolds, but in the end that involved a partner demo saw, and a steady hand. thats right, the old manifolds had to be cut off. then about for cans of pb blaster later, what was left of the bolts finally came out.

last time home allowed me to get alot of work done on the motor, but it was like two steps forward and one step back. see everytime i pull off a part that needs to be cleaned it painted, i cant bring my self to put it back on the motor with the part next to it looking dirty or rusted, so before i knew it, i had painted my new manifolds and risers, stripped primed and painted the valvecovers, brokedown the starter for a rebuild, pulled the intake to get stripped primed and painted, along with many other randomd brackets and housings. and of course after looking into the decrepit exhaust ports, i was dying to pull the heads. i knew it wasnt the time though, so i decided to drain the oil. best decisoion i ever made! about 2 gallons of watre poured from the pan before i even saw a drop of oil. man did my heart stop. apperntly something was not buttoned up to tight on the motor, because when the boat flooded somehow water made it into the pan, eve though the water in the boat only game up to the bottom of the manifolds. so after seeing that i figured i better break out the breker bar...... the motor would not turn one bit. all this time spent painting and prepping and now the motor wouldnt even turn. well i had to get back down to school, the motor would have to wait.
let me speed this up a little. my father open up the motor while i have been down at school and to both of our suprises it was not all that bad, the crank and bearing were fine, and all but the two back cylinders looked perfect and even the back to were not bad, just froze up, with hammer and a block of wood, the motor began to spin. so my father honed the two cylinders. and out opf the deal those heads that i was dying to pull off are now off and are going to meet the dremel so as to polish the ports a bit. my father is waiting on a pan gasket and a set of head gaskets to butoon her back up. ive got two more weks at school before i go home, my father is going to try to have the motor back together for me when i get back but if not i dont mind tunring the wrenches one bit.

there are a few things left still to take care of that i need some advice on. first is exhaust. first off i hate mufflers, and ones cracked so they have got to go, and at the price of copper ($23/ft) stainless is looking pretty good, does anyone have any opion on that or advice or maybe another idea to bring down the cost, rmeber im a college student.

the second problem is the water pump, after my investigation into the temperature problems last summer, i found that the water pump was leaking from the shaft a bit. that coupled wityh the fact that cooling systems are these things have the most retarded routing i have every seen, probably comtributed to alot of the heat, the pump would even build up enough pressure the uncorked my thumb from the ports. so will a major overhaul kit fix the leaky shaft, or is the pump ready to retire after 25 years? a new pump is like 300 clams so this will be a big decisoin.

the final problem i have is the carburater, the secondary would never close all the way beacause the bushings were shot in the shafts, that forced me to retard the timing. again do i get this carb rebuilt for 250 or can i pick up onbe of those holleys pretty cheap?

anything else i should know about these boats? thanks in advance guys

SnSnj
06-02-2007, 05:44 PM
dont mind all the spelling and typing errors,

WilliM1940
06-03-2007, 10:50 AM
If the mufflers haven't cracked too bad, they are fiberglass and can be repaired. In my state, exhaust noise is regulated, and running without mufflers is a significant fine. Don't know what your state does. However, I have heard of people running exhaust lengths with 3" PVC. For the price of stainless or copper, Discount Inboard Marine has replacement mufflers. You should get a catalog anyway, they are on line, and can answer any of your questions above.

There are two water pumps, the raw water and the circulating automotive type. Both are carried at the above mentioned. There is a guy, VInce there who will walk you through the whole thing, and your carb too.

The throttle plate is a seperate assembly for the 4160, and the only thing that kills these carbs is the throttle plate shafts wearing out as you stated (this seems to mean your boat has way more hours than you think). But I really can't see why the throttle plate can't be replaced, and in any event, this place has the carb for sale for your boat.

JohnnyB
06-03-2007, 11:15 AM
With a bucket of fiberglass and some handy work, the mufflers could be fixed.

Post pics next time you're home....we'd love to see the boat. If you've got pics of the work in progress, those would be cool too.

Keep us posted as you progress!!

JohnnyB
06-03-2007, 11:15 AM
dont mind all the spelling and typing errors,

Tell me you're not an english major :D

SnSnj
06-03-2007, 11:55 AM
nahh johnny engineering, haha, yea i am aware that i can fiberglass the mufflers, but i am a musclecar guy and cant stand to hear a nice healthy v8 all choked. the 3" schedule 80 aint a bad idea either, i had thought about it, even if its just to get me through the season, wonder how it would sound? as for the carb, i never thought about that indicatiing how many hours are on the boat but that is a good observation, its just everything else in the boat seems to say that the hours are definatley low. as for it being a sepreate throttle plate, i dont think it is although i havent looked that close and could be wrong. and the waterpump im talking about it the raw water, i know its a g21 sherwood and leaking out of the shaft bearing which also means an air leak, cutting down the suction. im just afraid to spend 100 bucks on a overhaul kit, or 300 on a new pump without rerouting the lines first.

which brings me to my next point, does anybody else think that they routing of these raw water systmes is the dumbest thing ive ever seen. i mean the more connections on the suctions side of the pump means the more chances for leaks. lets count them, from the scupper you have the brass shut off valvle, one connection out of that. then the wash down valve, 2 more, then the strainner/tranny cooler, if i remebr right?, thats 2 more, then finally at the inlet of the pump, 1 more. thats a total of 6 hose clamps before you even get out of the suction. so my question is has anyone else rerouted this system, and if so how did you do it.

finally if you guys have any quick tips, common things to check or replace, or any little tid bits of info on these boats would be awsome. as it is i am not new to boats at all, i bought MY first boat when i was 12, the penn yann, aside from that since ive been alive weve also had our 28 silverton, and now our 32 blackfin, and my uncles have had 20 ft centuries, 34 luhrs, 28 henrique, and now a 38 topaz, so all the genres have been covered, but this is my first mastercraft so im new to these guys. but so far im lovin it, so lemme have all the newbie info you can think off

JohnnyB
06-03-2007, 12:06 PM
I don't know where you use your boat. I use mine on small inland lakes where I can find early morning glass for footin' and slalom skiing. That being the case, I'm much more welcome at 6am with a properly muffled boat than I would be barking through straight pipes.....that's one of the ways we wind up with ski hours on lakes.

With your mechanical inclination, I assumed there was a good chance you were an engineer :cool: ....that's why I went into it too. I love to turn wrenches and keep my toys mechanically sound.

SnSnj
06-03-2007, 11:44 PM
i use mine on a bay, noise isnt an issue,although with the bottom of the bottom being as flat as a twelve year old i wish i was on a lake, unless its glass on the bay i cant go two feet without gettin swamped lol......engineering, civil to be exact, started as mechanical but transferred schools and the school im at now doesnt offer mechanical but i think im enjoying the civl, even though its kickin my a$$. ill try to get some pix up next time i go home

88 PS190
06-04-2007, 01:27 AM
I don't know about using PVC. keep in mind the amount of pressure that will be forcing water back into your boat if one of those things were to let go... there is no way you'd overcome the swamping.

except maybe driving and hoping the cooling water went out the back.

i know how it is to be detail oriented, do the mufflers right or you'll be redoing them in a few months and will be kicking yourself for it.

Thrall
06-04-2007, 08:34 AM
Don't use PVC as straight pipes!
Being a CE myself, I thought i was pretty sharp and used a piece of SCH 40 to bypass the radiator on a demo derby car once (moved the radiator so I could ram cars w/ the front of mine. Imagine the suprise, most would only back into others to try to preserve the cooling system.) Once the engine got good and warm, the PVC softened just enough to slide off the hose. Engine didn't last long after that.!
Good luck w/ your boat.

SnSnj
06-04-2007, 08:42 AM
you must not be too fimiliar with pvc 88 ps190, 3" schedule 80 is rated to somehwere in the neighborhood of 400 psi. its commonly used as watermain pipe, i dont thinbk pressure will be a problem. temperature maybe.... also id be more worried about flimsy fiberglass cracking then pvc. thrall makes a good point, except for the fact that the coolant temperature is much warmer than the raw water exhaust temperature. i agree to do things right the first time, but its not exactly that im doing it wrong, if anything stainless and copper will be better 10 fold compared to the mufflers, and since i have no sound restrictions, the bark is not a problem but a welcomed sound. the pvc is just simply temperory until i have money. its like this, doin a cherry bomb until you have enough money to afford flowmasters. lol

uncleboo
06-04-2007, 12:30 PM
I had to put the pvc pipe in my boat while my new mufflers were being ordered and delivered (several month ordeal). I have been running the PVC pipes without problem since last summer. I just make sure the hose clamps stay tight. One got a little loose, but not even enough to worry about. I definitely haven't had any explosions or swamping. It is a little louder than stock, but not unbearable. I will get around to putting the new mufflers in when it rains one weekend or when I put the boat up this fall.

beatle78
06-04-2007, 12:55 PM
but wouldn't the water flowing through the exhaust in a marine engine keep the PVC cool enough?

SnSnj
06-04-2007, 01:11 PM
boo, how does the pvc sound? not so much as sound level but does it have a good healthy sound to it or what?

beatle, thats what im saying, theres a big difference between wt exhaust temps, and coolant temps, rmeber you can put your hand on a manifold riser and not get burned, so i wouldnt think thatd be hot enough to soften the pvc

WilliM1940
06-04-2007, 01:37 PM
Really this isn't the same application as a closed cooling system, PVC should work fine. How hot does your exhaust water get? But frankly, unless your mufflers are completely destroyed, it would be smarter just to repair them. Pay attention to the exhaust hoses too, on my '85 the exhaust hose facing the bilge was rotting and delaminating. I replaced them.

beatle78
06-04-2007, 03:00 PM
Even if you don't keep the mufflers on, I would repair them in your spair time and keep them. Someday when you go to sell it you will thank me :)

Counds like you are restoring a pretty classic boat, that will fetch you a good price someday if/when you decide to switch to a new style boat. (notice I said switch and not upgrade hehe)

SnSnj
06-05-2007, 11:07 AM
yea the hoses have already been replaced actually all from trying to cure the cooling problem, one was kinked, and i needed a longer length on the other side to cover the crackon the muffler, hell that stufss just as expensivce as copper too

beatle i wish i was restoring this boat, but i dont have enough money to even think of doing that, its really just maintence and prventitive maintnence, i havent even touched the interior. but i got some more questions for yall

bottom paint, being that i liove on a lagoon its real convient to keep my boat in the water all summer, but the boat has never had a bottom paint, although im suproised to see no spider cracks or anything, just one chip. anyway though i know i cant go on like this so, its either poull it out every two weeks and clean the bottom and give it another wax, or try to find a color, any suggestions on color, rmebr the boat is baby blue, with the blue sparkle decals

secondly tint, i have an idea, you guys know that ti9nt that fades from like a smoke on the top, to like a chrome on the bottom? what do yall think about that, i though that would look pretty sweet with the blue, and the mettalic decals? i thought it fits the boat better than just black or that brown tint

ski_king
06-05-2007, 11:27 AM
Being in the plastic pipe testing business, I think I would use PE pipe instead of PVC.

uncleboo
06-05-2007, 03:38 PM
SnSnj,
It is a really throaty sound with my LT1. Not glasspacks and straightbpipes, but more like a V8 with a flowmaster or borla type sound. My next door neighbor has the exact same year boat, but his is a 98 205 Sammy Duvall. He said it was the best sounding MC he had ever heard.

endl
06-05-2007, 05:21 PM
yea the hoses have already been replaced actually all from trying to cure the cooling problem, one was kinked, and i needed a longer length on the other side to cover the crackon the muffler, hell that stufss just as expensivce as copper too

beatle i wish i was restoring this boat, but i dont have enough money to even think of doing that, its really just maintence and prventitive maintnence, i havent even touched the interior. but i got some more questions for yall

bottom paint, being that i liove on a lagoon its real convient to keep my boat in the water all summer, but the boat has never had a bottom paint, although im suproised to see no spider cracks or anything, just one chip. anyway though i know i cant go on like this so, its either poull it out every two weeks and clean the bottom and give it another wax, or try to find a color, any suggestions on color, rmebr the boat is baby blue, with the blue sparkle decals

secondly tint, i have an idea, you guys know that ti9nt that fades from like a smoke on the top, to like a chrome on the bottom? what do yall think about that, i though that would look pretty sweet with the blue, and the mettalic decals? i thought it fits the boat better than just black or that brown tint
Classic Boat to me is kind of like a classic Car. I would not paint the bottom NOOOOR put window tint on it! Keep it nice and stock until you have the dough to restore it.

SnSnj
06-06-2007, 02:56 PM
i agree endl but the bottom has to be painted, its in saltawter and is kept in the water, its not a trailer queen, but the color is justing to be hard to match.

ski king, what is PE pipe, is it plastic exhaust? if you can give me some info on it i would appreciate it, being in the pipe testing bussiness im sure you have planty of ideas for me.....

sounds like its a good rumble boo, im not to familiar with gm products, im a blue oval guy, but is the lt 1 is still a small block right, ls7 is the big boy?

Sodar
06-06-2007, 03:08 PM
i agree endl but the bottom has to be painted, its in saltawter and is kept in the water, its not a trailer queen, but the color is justing to be hard to match.

ski king, what is PE pipe, is it plastic exhaust? if you can give me some info on it i would appreciate it, being in the pipe testing bussiness im sure you have planty of ideas for me.....

sounds like its a good rumble boo, im not to familiar with gm products, im a blue oval guy, but is the lt 1 is still a small block right, ls7 is the big boy?

Don't do it! There are sooooooo many ways to avoid the bottom paint and I am too am a saltwater boater.

Cheap way (will pay for itself after two bottom jobs) is a boat bath. We had one for our old scarab and it worked great... we left the boat in for 6 months or so, then when you yank it, you just wipe the bottom down with a caustic acid, to clean the yellowing from the chlorine off.

A boat lift is an option too. I have seen used hydro hoists for VERY cheap.

I am telling ya though, the neighbors used white bottom paint on their tige... thing looks HORRIBLE.

SnSnj
06-06-2007, 03:16 PM
the yellowing im not worried about, its barnacles and spier cracks, and im just going to pretend you didnt mention a lift........ im in college, enough said. so unless i find a color to match, its just going to come out every other weekend, and get powerwashed, scraped and waxed. but i dont know how you leave a boat in for 6 months without bottom paint, unless it gets used everyday.... which unfornatley life doesnt allow me the time lol

Sodar
06-06-2007, 03:25 PM
the yellowing im not worried about, its barnacles and spier cracks, and im just going to pretend you didnt mention a lift........ im in college, enough said. so unless i find a color to match, its just going to come out every other weekend, and get powerwashed, scraped and waxed. but i dont know how you leave a boat in for 6 months without bottom paint, unless it gets used everyday.... which unfornatley life doesnt allow me the time lol

I am a young-in too!! Them there boats get $$$$...
B-reak
O-ut
A-nother
T-thousand

Answer is a boat bath.... or Bottom-Liner
http://www.waterwayboatliftcovers.com/img5-2003/bottomLinerBot.jpg


Link ---> http://www.bottomliner.com/

WilliM1940
06-06-2007, 03:40 PM
You are talking about copper containing bottom paint. Most often here if people use bottom paint, it is in fresh water, and Dupont Imron is recommended, it creates a chemical bond with the gel coat and is used to ward off osmotic blistering only, not barnacles. That boat you have is a potential classic, and probably does not have a closed cooling system. In addition to the hull, don't you have to worry about your engine dissolving in the brine? Seems the whole situation would be better if the boat was left on a trailer in the marina and washed down as well as flushed after each use. It is your boat, but it is a classic, and a lake boat at that (very little freeboard). I've taken waves over the bow just in the lake I go to. Just something you might want to consider.

SnSnj
06-06-2007, 05:46 PM
well antifouling, paint so if that what your talking about then yea i guess

as for the mtoro it is fresh water cooled with a raw water heat exchanger, hence the new manifolds, and a boat is made for water so thats where its going to stay, we have plenty of classic boats car and the such in the family, and they all get used, but also get well taken care of. as for a marina, i live on a lagoon, so paying to store it is kind of unneccsary.. as for the free board, im with you on that one willim, but it is what it is, and its fun soo, gotta deal with it haha, but looks like no one has any ideas for a color, so it looks like i better call up mothers and order a five gallon bucket of wax for the summer lol

TX.X-30 fan
06-06-2007, 06:25 PM
I am telling ya though, the neighbors used white bottom paint on their tige... thing looks HORRIBLE.



Did you mean before or after or both. :confused: :D

Sodar
06-06-2007, 06:33 PM
Did you mean before or after or both. :confused:

:o After :o

It was actually a sweet boat when they bought it! :cool: