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View Full Version : 2004 xstar,mcx engine, stalls and won't start


jmmcalpin
05-27-2007, 10:27 AM
I put my xstar in the water today for this first time since winterizing it last year. It started right up on the trailer and within a minute stalled and would not start. It has 60 psi gas pressure (full tank), starter cranks strong, but does not appear to get a spark. I removed all the terminals at the battery and cleaned them and it started , ran most of the day, then when I turned it off to have lunch it would not start again. I found the ground on the engine block tight but could be moved by my hand so I tightened it with a wrench and it started. I was driving it to the dock and while idling it stalled again , but this time started right up.

any ideas where to start? I do not have a service manual so I can't easily check the voltage and wiring...

John

JimN
05-27-2007, 10:32 AM
Keep checking loose connections. The ignition switch is another place I would look. Loose and dirty grounds will cause a lot of problems, especially when they look good.

jmmcalpin
05-27-2007, 10:48 AM
Thanks, I am about to head to the lake and do exactly that, it just amazed me that twice I found something that I thought fixed it, it started right away and then came back... strange. I had not thought of the ignition switch but will look at that.

Jim@BAWS
05-27-2007, 10:59 AM
KILL SWITCH KILL SWITCH KILL SWITCH


Jim@BAWS

JohnnyB
05-27-2007, 11:04 AM
If the guages don't "boot up" when you switch the key switch forward to accessory, it's probably the kill switch. If you put the key into this position, you can play with the kill switch and tether assembly to see if that's causing it.

jmmcalpin
05-27-2007, 11:41 AM
Thanks , the guages do "boot up" and the engine cranks and I did press and play with the kill switch and that did not make a difference.

fintek9
05-27-2007, 12:32 PM
I call It WINTER GREMLINS .... Still chasing them out of my boat!!!!

jmmcalpin
05-27-2007, 03:28 PM
I do think I have a gremlin, here is the update, I looked over all the wirning again, the positive lead on the alternator was tight but movable so I tightened that. the yellow wire on the ignition switch was a little loose so I gave that about a quarter turn. I then ran the boat at idle and it stalled once . I took off the panel with the kill switch and removed and replace the kill switch wires , both seemed clean and tight. I ran the boat at idle for a half hour and wiggled every wire I could and it did not stall..
I may have scarred the Gremlin away but I am not sure it is permanent.
I am going to take it out tomorrow (too many memorial day boaters out today) and see what happens. All ideas weclome.

John

wakedog12
05-27-2007, 08:33 PM
I know you said the guages boot up, does your fuel guage boot up? I had similiar problems with my 2004 x-9 mcx and my guages all came up except the fuel guage. The problem was my kill switch, if your kill switch has a red button I was told they have alot of problems with that switch.

jmmcalpin
05-27-2007, 11:10 PM
My Kill switch does have a red button , the rest of the switch is black, I did take the panel off and looked at the back of the kill switch , both blade connectors seemed to be on tight. The Fuel gauge does boot up with the rest of the gauges, I think it drops back down for a second after the boat starts but then works fine. Thanks for the help, If I can't figure out anything else I may repalce the switch just to be safe.

lav
05-28-2007, 08:48 AM
[QUOTE= If I can't figure out anything else I may repalce the switch just to be safe.[/QUOTE]

you need to check for continuity between the blades use multimeter with contitinuty (this is generally with ohms setting on meter) attach probes to terminals close kill switch (attach deadman clip)should ring(audible sound) between terminals if working properly just as if you touch probes together

jmmcalpin
05-28-2007, 09:47 AM
Thanks, I am on my way out to the boat today, keep in mind the problem is intermittent and yesterday the boat idled for a half hour without stalling.. I will try that and then I am going to run it all day and hope for the best. I did tighten up a few wires yesterday...
John

jmmcalpin
05-28-2007, 10:09 PM
Ok, I went out on the boat today we wakeboarded for 3 hours and the boat ran fine, as we were heading back in and slowed down under a bridge the boat stalled and would not start again, I had to have it towed in.. Any ideas?

Tim205
05-28-2007, 11:24 PM
Man - Very depressing. I am having a similar problem with my MCX (15 hours). It's going to the dealer tomorrow, but I am not very optimisitc given the intermittent nature of the problem. Let me us know what you find out.

jmmcalpin
05-28-2007, 11:32 PM
Mine is a 350 MCX as well, I will let you know if I figure it out, I am hoping it will not start tomorrow so I can diagnose it, when it starts and runs for a day it makes it very hard,, let me know what the dealer says. I am going to check the ignition switch and kill switch with a meter if it is still in the same condition tomorrow.

ZZMCFOOT
05-29-2007, 11:29 AM
I would replace the kill switch. I have a 2004 209 and had the same problem. It would run great then cut out unexpectedly and not start. Many times, if I played with the kill switch I was able to get it started again.

Good Luck!

jmmcalpin
05-29-2007, 11:59 PM
thanks , I did replace the kill switch today and it did not help, I am not able to start the boat at all at this time. I am going to look over the wires tomorrow and then bring it in to the dealer, all ideas welcome

jmmcalpin
05-30-2007, 07:21 PM
Ok, I did check out all the wiring and no luck so I brought it back in to the dealer, I hope he can look at it before the weekend but no promises, I will post what they find, the good news is the last 3 times I went to the boat it will not start at all so it is no longer intermittent, so they should be able to find it... crossing my fingers, still open for any ideas...

Doug G
05-30-2007, 07:56 PM
Does it still crank and not start or is it now a no crank ? I had a problem with mine where the neutral interlock made it not start. Even though the handle was in N it needed a little wiggle. Talk about feeling like a dummy when I got towed in and that was all it was. :o

Redeeming side of it was took the tech a little while to figure it out too and we did actually have a blast getting towed but that's another story. It doesn't sound like your problem but is thankfully my only experience.

Jerseydave
05-30-2007, 08:32 PM
Does it still crank and not start or is it now a no crank ? I had a problem with mine where the neutral interlock made it not start. Even though the handle was in N it needed a little wiggle. Talk about feeling like a dummy when I got towed in and that was all it was. :o

Redeeming side of it was took the tech a little while to figure it out too and we did actually have a blast getting towed but that's another story. It doesn't sound like your problem but is thankfully my only experience.

I had this same problem with my 230VRS, wiggle the shifter and the neutral switch would then allow the engine to crank.

If it cranks but does not start, maybe old fuel in tank from winter or water in fuel???

jmmcalpin
05-30-2007, 10:50 PM
It does crank very solid, I have not had any problem with the battery or starter cranking, it just doesn't have any kick at all, I think it cranks but is not getting a spark... Thanks , I do appreciate all ideas...

Jerseydave
05-31-2007, 08:53 PM
I'm still thinking stale fuel/water in fuel.

First time running after winterize.........did you fill the tank before putting it away for winter AND add sta-bil???

If the fuel tank is near empty, I say siphon out the old fuel, put in some super with a bottle of dry gas. (removes water in fuel)

This would be after checking for spark at the plug wire when it's acting-up. If you have spark and it won't start, you got a fuel problem.

Keep us posted! :) Good luck!

skitilldark
05-31-2007, 09:06 PM
I have had this problem so many times, I think I could write a novel about it. I too checked every friggin' wire I could think of. Mine, it turned out,(And it is still not fixed) was the wiring harness laying on top of the in-tank fuel pump. It intermittantly sends power to the pump, but when it feels like it(usually on my best run of the day) it chooses to stop working thank-you-very-much. My remedy is to pull all the ski vests out of the lcoker(I have an X-9) as well as gloves, the hot shower cables and my subwoofer, pull up the floor, jiggle the wires on the fuel pump and start skiing again. Works every time, but BOY is it a pain. So far I have replaced two fuel pumps with no luck. My next plan is to rip out every single wire that has anything to do with fuel delivery and replace them all as well as all the connectors. I don't know if this is exactly your problem, but it sounds a lot like mine.

jmmcalpin
05-31-2007, 09:50 PM
I did check gas pressure at the high pressure rail while I was cranking it and I did have 60 PSI while it wouldn't start, so I do have gas pressure. I did have half a tank of gas with Stabil in it when I put it away for winter (the dealer winterized it). I filled the tank with another 10 gallons and I ran it from a full tank to half a tank. So I do not think the gas is contributing to the problem (still possible). The keyis I did isolate it down to not having a spark. It is now with the dealer , they have worked on it all day and confirmed no spark BUT they have no idea what is causing it. I think it may be the sensor that is by the crankshaft, this sends the signal to the computer that tells it to spark and opens a gas nozzle. I think it has gone bad and is not tell the coil to spark or the gas nozzles to shoot. More tomorrow...

skitilldark
05-31-2007, 09:54 PM
I'll be interested in hearing what they find out

JimN
05-31-2007, 10:56 PM
If the ECM checks out and has no codes that would denote a bad EEPROM (maybe they could run a different motor with your ECM to verify), I would start at the beginning and make sure the ECM gets RPM signal, then the IC module needs to be verified, safety switch, coil(s), plug wires, etc. This kind of thing is taught at MC training. They have a whole course devoted to "Crank but no fire" situations.

They used to have two separate crank sensors that would occasionally be mis-wired by someone working on the boat and the ECM would get info that told it it was cranking backward. This sensor going bad will definitely keep it from starting. No spark, no fuel, no fun.

jmmcalpin
05-31-2007, 11:19 PM
Thanks for all the input, I am going to stop at the dealer tomorrow and see what they know, they seemed to be lost at this point. They are calling another dealer and then mastercraft so I hope someone can point them in the right direction. I am not sure they checked for rpm input , they did check for voltage at the ECM and coil. Will post what they find.

jmmcalpin
06-01-2007, 05:27 PM
Ok, so I spoke to the Inmar specailist and he recommends changing the coil, then maybe on to the ECM orIC , lets hope the coil does it. Will keep you posted.

jmmcalpin
06-08-2007, 09:41 AM
Update: So when I last left it the dealer agreed they needed to change the coil and or IC, Well, they don't carry those parts in inventory so they told me it would take 2 to 3 days to get the parts. It has now been a week and they don't have the parts OR a commit when they will. So my boat sits for another week and weekend in the shop , with no outlook on repair. I had suggested doing an overnight shipment , they sounded like I was nuts. I suggested swapping out a coil from a showroom boat to verify it will fix it.. I am at a loss.

JimN
06-08-2007, 09:44 AM
Call MC and ask for customer service. Why can't the dealer give you a loaner, or don't they care about happy customers?

PaulW
06-08-2007, 10:55 AM
It sure does suck to have the boat sitting with good weather, my sympathies to you. I have the MCX as well and have been following this. If you were close I would give you some pulls.

jmmcalpin
06-08-2007, 11:50 AM
That is a good idea, I am going to be speaking to them today

stevenm2
06-08-2007, 12:07 PM
Man that is irritating,I wish you the best of luck. I am also following this thread. please keep us updated.

jmmcalpin
06-21-2007, 12:19 AM
Ok, I do have good news and can close this out finally , so to all those who helped with ideas and support, thanks. The dealer finally got the parts I asked them to order (the iginition coild and pickup), it took them over a week just to order and get the parts, and that was only after I called them back and insisted they have them shipped overnight. It then took them 5 days to get to replacing the parts (yes they are getting incompentant).

But the good news is they replaced the ignition coil and it fixed the problem. The Inmar expert was pretty confident this would do it. I took it out for a full day running it hard and had no problem at all. So I am fairly confident this did fix it, It will take a few more runs for me to be certain since this was intermittent to begin with , but I feel comfortable with it....

Thanks again for the help, I am going to follow up and order the mainenance books for this boat so I can do better diagnostics if I should have any future problems with it. I have lost my confidence in this dealer.
Let me know if you have any questions or anyone has any similar problems.

sand2snow22
06-21-2007, 01:35 AM
That's good news, sounds like you're on your way to being back on the water for the summer :D

bigmac
06-21-2007, 08:32 AM
...... I am going to follow up and order the mainenance books for this boat so I can do better diagnostics if I should have any future problems with it. I have lost my confidence in this dealer.
Let me know if you have any questions or anyone has any similar problems.


Glad you got that figured out.

If you are indeed able to order maintenance manuals for that engine and/or boat, please let us know where you got them. The only such book that I know of is Clymer's generic manual (http://amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/104-9017969-9970317?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=clymer+indmar) for all 1983-2003 Indmar V-8's. I have that book, and I would rate it as only marginally useful. If you can get anything more specific for either the boat or the engine, that would be great information to have.