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Willski
05-22-2007, 10:03 PM
Drug the boat into the driver tonight. Tried to start it. Starter spins like a top, but does not engage. It seems a little corroded inside, but it the shaft moves freely when "pushed" toward the engaged direction and springs back freely. I also put power to it (off the boat) and the starter spins, but the shaft does not shift.

Any ideas? New starter?

Workin' 4 Toys
05-22-2007, 10:51 PM
Any ideas? New starter?
Have it tested first? Local auto parts shop might do it for free.....

Willski
05-22-2007, 10:58 PM
Strange thing is that it spins, so the motor portion is working fine. Just won't shift to engage. I'll check around tomorrow.

TMCNo1
05-22-2007, 11:00 PM
Have it tested first? Local auto parts shop might do it for free.....


NAPA, Advance Auto, Autozone among others will test it for free, then they sell you a starter/generator/alternator, etc. while your there in their store, if it's bad, but they don't carry marine items in most cases, but you can ask.

Workin' 4 Toys
05-22-2007, 11:03 PM
NAPA, Advance Auto, Autozone among others will test it for free, then they sell you a starter/generator/alternator, etc. while your there in their store, if it's bad, but they don't carry marine items in most cases, but you can ask.
Oh yeah, they do that here too, I just wasn't sure where he is and if they would.

Willski
05-22-2007, 11:08 PM
I'll check it out. I'm sure the auto places could check it, but likely couldn't sell me one. I know when I took my alternator to get checked out at Auto Zone here, they weren't even sure they wanted to mess with a marine version, although I think the only real difference is the sealing. No MC dealer here, but there are some reputable boat dealers. Maybe I'll give them a call to see what they would recommend.

Workin' 4 Toys
05-22-2007, 11:10 PM
Do you have a starter/alternator rebuild shop around?

Willski
05-22-2007, 11:13 PM
Do you have a starter/alternator rebuild shop around?

I think there is one. Just got to find out where. I'll check it out. I'm kind of late getting the boat going this year, so I don't want to wait too long just to save a little money. I think I can probably get a rebuilt one for ~200 at skidim. I think what they are advertising is the wrong rotation though. I'll probably give them a shout tomorrow too.

JimN
05-22-2007, 11:21 PM
A rebuild should cost about $120. You might want to disconnect and remove it, place it on a bench and rotate the gear in the opposite direction to cranking, so the gear will rise on the shaft. If it doesn't want to rise, squirt some PB Blaster in at the base and let it soak in. It should break free and once you can bet it to move out toward the nose, wipe it off and clean it up more, adding a good dab of grease to lubricate the whole shaft where it goes through the gear. Cycle it a few times on the bench and reinstall it. That should last a while, maybe till winterization.

BTW- that's supposed to be serviced annually.

Willski
05-23-2007, 08:56 AM
A rebuild should cost about $120. You might want to disconnect and remove it, place it on a bench and rotate the gear in the opposite direction to cranking, so the gear will rise on the shaft. If it doesn't want to rise, squirt some PB Blaster in at the base and let it soak in. It should break free and once you can bet it to move out toward the nose, wipe it off and clean it up more, adding a good dab of grease to lubricate the whole shaft where it goes through the gear. Cycle it a few times on the bench and reinstall it. That should last a while, maybe till winterization.

BTW- that's supposed to be serviced annually.

I took it off and worked the shaft up and down, lubricated with WD40. It moves freely, but when you put power to it, it does not move to the engaged position.

JimN
05-23-2007, 08:57 AM
You can replace the solenoid yourself. It's your decision to do that instead of rebuilding completely but it is an option.

lassy
05-23-2007, 09:06 AM
do a business search in your area for "battery/starter/alternator shop" and you should find something. there were two battery and starter shops in town here that i never knew about. i dropped my starter off a while back, and $35 later, they had replaced the solenoid and i was good as new.

most likely it's the solenoid, and they can fix you up in no time.

Willski
05-23-2007, 09:14 AM
I'll check for a shop, but if all else fails, is this the correct starter? It says something about Correct Craft, but it appears to be the correct rotation. I always forget if my boat 84 S&S is a RH or LH rotation.

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ARC70101

TMCNo1
05-23-2007, 10:10 AM
I'll check for a shop, but if all else fails, is this the correct starter? It says something about Correct Craft, but it appears to be the correct rotation. I always forget if my boat 84 S&S is a RH or LH rotation.

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ARC70101

Did the engine crank and run correctly before you started having starter problems? If it did, it's is the correct rotation starter and it's time to repair or replace.

Willski
05-23-2007, 10:39 AM
Did the engine crank and run correctly before you started having starter problems? If it did, it's is the correct rotation starter and it's time to repair or replace.

No. I know my starter is the correct one. In fact, this is the first time in 23 years that it has malfunctioned, but I'm not sure what rotation it is. LH or RH.

Workin' 4 Toys
05-23-2007, 11:31 AM
Like Jim asked, Can you handle changing the solenoid yourself? You may try that first if you know how.

Willski
05-23-2007, 12:02 PM
I'm not sure I know how. Where would I even get one. My biggest issue is that I want to get this thing running soon.

Workin' 4 Toys
05-23-2007, 12:12 PM
With that said, get yourself a new starter........;)




And then maybe you could interest yourself in a self-diagnostic test. Remove the solenoid and see if you can figure out how to replace it....Might not hurt to have a spare starter around......:cool:
Especially with the history of "rebuilt" starters I have gone through over the years....:o

Willski
05-23-2007, 12:29 PM
I just talked to Vince at skidim. They have a new permanent magnet starter for 199. I hate to throw money at a 23 yr. old starter. Maybe I will check into it as a spare.

river_ryder
05-23-2007, 12:48 PM
I'm not sure I know how. Where would I even get one. My biggest issue is that I want to get this thing running soon.
I just replaced my solenoid...problem solved. Any auto parts store will have the correct one for about 30 bucks. Very simple job, two bolts and four wires. I even took a high res. picture with me to make sure the part looked the same. -----good luck!

Hunterb
05-23-2007, 01:17 PM
I'm not sure a new solenoid is going to solve this problem. If the motor is spinning then the solenoid is doing its job. In a gear reduction starter the soleniod and the drive gear are an integral unit but even on those starters the solenoid must be fully 'engaged' before the motor will spin as well. I would look closely at the drive gear and make sure it is well lubricated as I'm pretty sure it must be the problem if the motor is spinning properly.

Bruce

Willski
05-23-2007, 04:45 PM
I just replaced my solenoid...problem solved. Any auto parts store will have the correct one for about 30 bucks. Very simple job, two bolts and four wires. I even took a high res. picture with me to make sure the part looked the same. -----good luck!

Do you still have the picture? At the risk of sounding stupid, I had my starter off and the only thing you can really get at externally is a cover, and under that is a lever type mechanism that pulls down onto a copper bar. Working the lever engages the starter into the ring gear. Where is the solenoid?

Jim@BAWS
05-23-2007, 05:17 PM
STOP STOP STOP
Rebuilt FORD 351 starter for your boat is $169+ shipping from us

MAGNET...give me a break buy the WHOLE thing for $169

I can ship ASAP

Jim@BAWS

(813) 996 2297

Workin' 4 Toys
05-23-2007, 10:59 PM
wsssshhhheeeew.... I was wondering when someone was going to chime in....Problem solved.......;)

Doug G
05-23-2007, 11:12 PM
Some repairs reach a point of diminishing returns quickly. I would replace it and if you want a spare take the old one to a local starter shop and have them rebuild it unless Jim has a core charge.

Willski
05-24-2007, 03:50 PM
Just a little plug for Jim@BAWS. Got me one on the way overnight. Thanks for you help Jim.

I'm still puzzled by the original, but hopefully I'll have her in the water by the weekend. By the way, as far as I can tell, there is no solenoid on my starter. My solenoid is on the back of the engine.

Hunterb
05-24-2007, 04:54 PM
That's a pretty standard location for the solenoid with these types of starters. That's why I couldn't figure out how that had anything to do with your problem. I'm sure when you put the new starter in there it will fire right up and you'll be on your way.

Good luck !!

Bruce

Workin' 4 Toys
05-24-2007, 08:22 PM
I'm still puzzled by the original, but hopefully I'll have her in the water by the weekend. By the way, as far as I can tell, there is no solenoid on my starter. My solenoid is on the back of the engine.
Pictures.........Pictures..........Pictures....... ..(This thread is useless without pics;) )

Willski
05-24-2007, 10:36 PM
Pictures.........Pictures..........Pictures....... ..(This thread is useless without pics;) )

I was thinking the same thing.

Here is the starter. What is the mechanism on top? When it moves down the starter engages.

Willski
05-24-2007, 10:38 PM
The solenoid is under the circuit breaker cover.

Willski
05-25-2007, 10:56 PM
Got my new (rebuilt) starter this afternoon!! Windy and cool right this afternoon, but pending good weather I'll have the old girl running tomorrow. Still figuring out what is going on w/the old one, for my own curiosity.

Workin' 4 Toys
05-28-2007, 11:00 PM
I was thinking the same thing.

Here is the starter.
Did the solenoid have a cover over it?

Willski
05-29-2007, 09:04 AM
Did the solenoid have a cover over it?

There was a cover on top of the starter. It was off when I took the picture.