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duckguy
05-14-2007, 01:20 AM
I want to upgrade my 06 with 07 exhaust tips. Dealer says they also delete the muffler or something to that affect. What will I notice with this done? Noise, Gas consumption, and power increase. Boat has an RTP.

Second, I am goona put PPWB in and I currently have MC cruise. Any ideas for what to do with the cruise control switches I have now-trim plate etc? I cant live with those switches being there and not doing anything.

llcamp63
05-14-2007, 08:27 AM
I just did both of those upgrades to my '06 X45. I love the exhaust tips. The dealer did remove the muffler. This leaves a lot more room around the engine. We have only been out once since the upgrade. I can't notice any difference in sound or profomance. I also upgraded to PPWB. I love it. It seems so much easier than Master Cruise. So far I'm told I either replace the whole trim panel the Master Cruise is cut out of or I live with the Master Cruise contol panel still installed but not functioning. I have seen emblems that say Master Craft by Design that go in this spot, but I can't get one.

bigmac
05-14-2007, 09:25 AM
I just did both of those upgrades to my '06 X45. I love the exhaust tips. The dealer did remove the muffler. This leaves a lot more room around the engine. We have only been out once since the upgrade. I can't notice any difference in sound or profomance. I also upgraded to PPWB. I love it. It seems so much easier than Master Cruise. So far I'm told I either replace the whole trim panel the Master Cruise is cut out of or I live with the Master Cruise contol panel still installed but not functioning. I have seen emblems that say Master Craft by Design that go in this spot, but I can't get one.I'd be curious to know what was involved in that exhaust changeover. Were hull modifications required, or is this a potential user-driveway project? What did it cost?

duckguy
05-15-2007, 11:34 AM
no one else?

boatless
05-15-2007, 11:38 AM
Yes, I would like to know what is the cost to have the exhaust tips replaced. I am considering doing it, would be nice to know how much it would cost me. I think the tips alone cost $500.00 each, I am not sure.

boatless.

jaxrider
05-15-2007, 11:38 AM
I too am very curious about this mod. If anyone has more info please let me know. Is this possible on an '04 X2?

duckguy
05-15-2007, 11:47 AM
Its not that much at all. There are two ways to do it, it should be about 600 done deal.
1.MC by design tips
2.07 tips with mufflet delete

Maybe MYMC can jump in here or someone with more knowledge

bigmac
05-15-2007, 11:57 AM
Its not that much at all. There are two ways to do it, it should be about 600 done deal.
1.MC by design tips
2.07 tips with mufflet delete

Maybe MYMC can jump in here or someone with more knowledge

IIRC, there is a difference, especially in the $$$, between the MasterCraft by Design exhaust tips and the stock baffled exhaust tips that come on the 2007 models. I personally have no interest in the MBD tips, but I am certainly interested in getting rid of that big honkin' SilentMaster, the design and implemention of which is IMHO the main reason current 2006 and earlier MasterCraft V-drives are such a PITA to work on.

trickskier
05-15-2007, 12:11 PM
From what I've been told the toughest part is enlarging the existing 3" holes in the transom to accommodate the SS Tips which are 4". Remove the muffler and cut new exhaust hose to run from the manifolds to the SS Tips.

duckguy
05-15-2007, 12:14 PM
Trick you are right-I believe they use a router and zip it out

MYMC
05-15-2007, 12:18 PM
Its not that much at all. There are two ways to do it, it should be about 600 done deal.
1.MC by design tips
2.07 tips with mufflet delete

Maybe MYMC can jump in here or someone with more knowledge
What I can tell you from devoting hours of time and lots of money is that the only tip I would use is the "By Design Tip". I would not...REPEAT...would not install the 2007 tips particularly on any engine combination larger than the MCX.

Jesus_Freak
05-15-2007, 12:20 PM
What I can tell you from devoting hours of time and lots of money is that the only tip I would use is the "By Design Tip". I would not...REPEAT...would not install the 2007 tips particularly on any engine combination larger than the MCX.

;) Wonder why you think that?;)

Diesel
05-15-2007, 12:41 PM
What I can tell you from devoting hours of time and lots of money is that the only tip I would use is the "By Design Tip". I would not...REPEAT...would not install the 2007 tips particularly on any engine combination larger than the MCX.

You can't leave it at that.........

bigmac
05-15-2007, 12:49 PM
What I can tell you from devoting hours of time and lots of money is that the only tip I would use is the "By Design Tip". I would not...REPEAT...would not install the 2007 tips particularly on any engine combination larger than the MCX.

Why is that? Why are the MBD tips better? Are the "By Design" tips baffled? If I use the MBD tips and pitch the Silentmaster, do I need inline mufflers?

limegreen
05-15-2007, 12:57 PM
You can't leave it at that.........

So true...if you leave it at that your comment is a little self serving. I am a little sensitive since their are two MC 07 versions on my work bench, ready for install.:o

I have MCX.

llcamp63
05-15-2007, 01:14 PM
The dealer did have to increase the exhaust hole in the transom from 3 inches to 4. I originally wanted to just install the chrome exhaust tips but the dealer talked me into upgrading to the '07 tips. No one ever told me any drawbacks of doing this. The tips, replacement exhaust hoses and labor cost about $800. I'm happy and that is all that matters.

MYMC
05-15-2007, 01:48 PM
;) Wonder why you think that?;)
Well to be honest an old engine builder and a really smart guy got together and figured it out;)

bigmac
05-15-2007, 02:57 PM
The dealer did have to increase the exhaust hole in the transom from 3 inches to 4. I originally wanted to just install the chrome exhaust tips but the dealer talked me into upgrading to the '07 tips. No one ever told me any drawbacks of doing this. The tips, replacement exhaust hoses and labor cost about $800. I'm happy and that is all that matters.

So, your dealer disagrees with MYMC and recommended the (substantially cheaper) 2007 exhaust tips, and you've found it to work well?

duckguy
05-15-2007, 02:58 PM
So what about us with RTP/MCX

Diesel
05-15-2007, 03:09 PM
Loss of backpressure killing torque?

MYMC
05-15-2007, 03:30 PM
So what about us with RTP/MCX
You should be fine...if it were my boat it is not something I would do; however, everyone has different needs and reasons for their boats so my answer may not be the answer for you.

MYMC
05-15-2007, 03:34 PM
Loss of backpressure killing torque?
You had to go and say that didn't you? Backpressure of any kind is not good and does not build power at any RPM. That is not to say that you can go around modifying the exhaust for zero pressure and expect a gain (due to over scavenging the cylinders) but if all things are tuned to the system the one with the LEAST backpressue will make more power at any given RPM.

Now to answer your question directly...quite the opposite is going on here.

(Definition: power in this case means torque since HP is a mathmatical expression of torque at a given RPM, typically WOT).

(Disclaimer: there are some turbo systems that are aided by some amount of backpressue in order to help the turbo spin up faster. This is an example that falls outside of the discussion here and really isn’t relevant any longer with the wide spread use of variable geometry turbos.

duckguy
05-15-2007, 03:44 PM
So why would you not do it to my rtp equiped 06

MYMC
05-15-2007, 04:01 PM
Blunt answer: I would not want to risk the loss of power. I never tested or asked for computations with the RTP-1, but knowing what I know I wouldn't risk it.

Let me qualify my response by saying that all my boats are treated like trucks...they are for working not showing. If it is a wake boat it is loaded to the max. If it is a slalom boat it is used to pull and that is it. I donít care what they look like (to a point) and the effort required to service them is not a factor for me. If your usage/mission is different then you need to weight those factors to make your decision.

Anyone that was at CSM can tell you what Maeghanís exhaust system looked like.

duckguy
05-15-2007, 04:03 PM
So how much just to do the design tips to spruce it up

MYMC
05-15-2007, 04:06 PM
http://mymastercraft.com/product_details.cfm?caller=PARTS&item_id=46&product=88250001&product_type=ENGINE&company=MasterCraft&sub_product=Custom
$511.76

duckguy
05-15-2007, 04:17 PM
Does the hull need modification or is this real simple?

MYMC
05-15-2007, 05:00 PM
Same hull mod as the 2007 tips...only not as big.

limegreen
05-18-2007, 07:38 PM
What do I need besides the tips to do this myself?

I have the tips, I have a dremmel for the cutouts.

I need the hose, but from where.

Are there other parts I need...?:(

east tx skier
05-18-2007, 07:43 PM
Let me qualify my response by saying that all my boats are treated like trucks...they are for working not showing. If it is a wake boat it is loaded to the max. If it is a slalom boat it is used to pull and that is it. I donít care what they look like (to a point) and the effort required to service them is not a factor for me.

Mike ... Sir, my I please quote you whenever someone asks where my back seat is or why there is gear in the bow seating area? Almost makes me want to buy a green and yellow 190 and get some John Deere decals for the transom. Almost. ;)

llcamp63
05-18-2007, 09:05 PM
So, your dealer disagrees with MYMC and recommended the (substantially cheaper) 2007 exhaust tips, and you've found it to work well?

I guess I didn't ask the dealer these questions. I just did what they recommended. The dealer told me the exhaust would be quieter. They felt it would perform atleast as well and I would have mre room to work on the engine. So why not do it.

limegreen
05-21-2007, 11:41 AM
What parts (other than the tips) do you need to do it yourself? I mean the 07 MC versions...

I have a dremmel for the transom cutouts, and I have the tips... Not sure what else....:(

88 PS190
05-21-2007, 12:01 PM
What parts (other than the tips) do you need to do it yourself? I mean the 07 MC versions...

I have a dremmel for the transom cutouts, and I have the tips... Not sure what else....:(

rubber exaust hose? 3/4 plywood guide for your dremel so you don't make a S cut hole?

limegreen
05-21-2007, 06:38 PM
rubber exaust hose? 3/4 plywood guide for your dremel so you don't make a S cut hole?

Thanks. Also someone mentioned some stainless bends that might be required, but I got a hunch that is for V drives where the motor is nearer the transom and might have a sharper turn in the exhaust. Since mine is direct drive there is a fair amount of room so maybe I can just do hose the whole way from manifold (they exit pointing downish like 45 degrees) to the tips with a smooth transition in the rubber.

limey

MYMC
05-22-2007, 10:37 AM
Mike ... Sir, my I please quote you whenever someone asks where my back seat is or why there is gear in the bow seating area? Almost makes me want to buy a green and yellow 190 and get some John Deere decals for the transom. Almost. ;)
East you can quote me anytime!

MYMC
05-22-2007, 10:40 AM
I guess I didn't ask the dealer these questions. I just did what they recommended. The dealer told me the exhaust would be quieter. They felt it would perform atleast as well and I would have mre room to work on the engine. So why not do it.
I wonder how much of their own money they spent researching this? I know the total I spent...nothing better than guessing, it alway seems cheaper.:rolleyes:

Jesus_Freak
05-22-2007, 10:46 AM
....They felt it would perform atleast as well and I would have mre room to work on the engine. So why not do it.

I wonder how much of their own money they spent researching this? I know the total I spent...nothing better than guessing, it alway seems cheaper.:rolleyes:

I've been waiting on you to address this. Yep, it is always fun to talk to those who "feel" things about technical issues.

MYMC
05-22-2007, 11:40 AM
I've been waiting on you to address this. Yep, it is always fun to talk to those who "feel" things about technical issues.
Just like when I was with Corvette...people would pick up a performance catalog and think that all the claims were real even though they had never been "really" tested. If you added it all up you could bolt on about 10,000hp in an afternoon buying that crap...

east tx skier
05-22-2007, 11:49 AM
Just like when I was with Corvette...people would pick up a performance catalog and think that all the claims were real even though they had never been "really" tested. If you added it all up you could bolt on about 10,000hp in an afternoon buying that crap...

Interesting. I'd like to buy your horsepower, sir.

Ric
05-22-2007, 12:40 PM
Mike ... Sir, my I please quote you whenever someone asks where my back seat is or why there is gear in the bow seating area? Almost makes me want to buy a green and yellow 190 and get some John Deere decals for the transom. Almost. ;) that would actually be pretty damn cool!

MYMC
05-22-2007, 12:43 PM
Interesting. I'd like to buy your horsepower, sir.
I'll never forget the TPIS "throttle body airfoil" that added 25hp...couldn't ever get it to make even 1 more on the dyno let alone 25!

east tx skier
05-22-2007, 12:56 PM
I'll never forget the TPIS "throttle body airfoil" that added 25hp...couldn't ever get it to make even 1 more on the dyno let alone 25!

GIS for "throttle body airfoil." Anyone for wing tip vorteces?

http://www.holley.com/data/products/pictures/large120-140.jpg

MYMC
05-22-2007, 12:58 PM
GIS for "throttle body airfoil." Anyone for wing tip vorteces?

http://www.holley.com/data/products/pictures/large120-140.jpg
Nightmares...nightmares!

limegreen
05-23-2007, 06:53 PM
I've been waiting on you to address this. Yep, it is always fun to talk to those who "feel" things about technical issues.


I guess I am not so worried whether it helps the performance, but I certainly would hope it doesn't HURT!!

My initial mission was just to dress up the ash of my sled...now it sounds way more complicated than I ever intended.

I wish MYMC would further the explanation instead of just bashing the MC parts. I am no motor builder but I am pretty sure I can grasp the concepts given a chance.

I think to sell the spendy MYMC versions most people would want a decent explanation.

MYMC
05-24-2007, 11:29 AM
I guess I am not so worried whether it helps the performance, but I certainly would hope it doesn't HURT!!

My initial mission was just to dress up the ash of my sled...now it sounds way more complicated than I ever intended.

I wish MYMC would further the explanation instead of just bashing the MC parts. I am no motor builder but I am pretty sure I can grasp the concepts given a chance.

I think to sell the spendy MYMC versions most people would want a decent explanation.
A decent explanation? Nice...it isn't enough for me to do the research test it and TELL you that it is a bad idea you want me to tell you why it is a bad idea...some days you just can't win. Like my mother always told me "no good deed goes unpunished". BTW, the other tips are not mine...those are MasterCraft's "By Design" tips.

Bashing MC parts huh? I told you (and everyone else) the truth as verified by an outside impartial source...there is no bashing here, just facts. I'm sorry they don't conform to your expectations. Look at the inside of the piece you are wanting to buy and ask yourself if it looks like it will improve or hinder exhaust flow. If as you say you can grasp simple concepts (given the chance) try this one: your engine starts at the air cleaner and ends where the exhaust leaves the outlet (or tailpipe as the case may be). EVERYTHING in between effects performance and fuel economy...

In the future I'll post my bashing and decent explanations on my own site.

TMCNo1
05-24-2007, 11:48 AM
[QUOTE=MYMC]A decent explanation? Nice...it isn't enough for me to do the research test it and TELL you that it is a bad idea you want me to tell you why it is a bad idea...some days you just can't win. Like my mother always told me "no good deed goes unpunished". BTW, the other tips are not mine...those are MasterCraft's "By Design" tips.

Bashing MC parts huh? I told you (and everyone else) the truth as verified by an outside impartial source...there is no bashing here, just facts. I'm sorry they don't conform to your expectations. Look at the inside of the piece you are wanting to buy and ask yourself if it looks like it will improve or hinder exhaust flow. If as you say you can grasp simple concepts (given the chance) try this one: your engine starts at the air cleaner and ends where the exhaust leaves the outlet (or tailpipe as the case may be). EVERYTHING in between effects performance and fuel economy...

In the future I'll post my bashing and decent explanations on my own site.[QUOTE]


Please reconsider your statement, as your honest and accurate input here is too valuable to not post. Remember, you can't please all the people, all the time! Thanks, Mike.

Ric
05-24-2007, 11:51 AM
A decent explanation? Nice...it isn't enough for me to do the research test it and TELL you that it is a bad idea you want me to tell you why it is a bad idea...some days you just can't win. Like my mother always told me "no good deed goes unpunished". BTW, the other tips are not mine...those are MasterCraft's "By Design" tips.

Bashing MC parts huh? I told you (and everyone else) the truth as verified by an outside impartial source...there is no bashing here, just facts. I'm sorry they don't conform to your expectations. Look at the inside of the piece you are wanting to buy and ask yourself if it looks like it will improve or hinder exhaust flow. If as you say you can grasp simple concepts (given the chance) try this one: your engine starts at the air cleaner and ends where the exhaust leaves the outlet (or tailpipe as the case may be). EVERYTHING in between effects performance and fuel economy...

In the future I'll post my bashing and decent explanations on my own site. way to go lime, now Mike's out! :mad:

Monte
05-24-2007, 11:57 AM
In the future I'll post my bashing and decent explanations on my own site.


Mike your expertise and advice is very valuable to TT:cool: Please don't let THAT other:mad: post spoil it for the rest of us:cool:

MYMC
05-24-2007, 12:08 PM
No, I'm not going anywhere...although I'm sure some wish I would.

There isnt the room here to explain the entire process...hell you damn near need a supercomputer to run the modeling program! And really why should I explain it all? You either believe what I am telling you and is being verified by other TMC members or you don't...and frankly I dont care which it is, but don't accuse me of "bashing" just becasue my answer is not what you want to hear.

The reallity is that some think I am trying to sell "MYMC" parts by "bashing" MC parts; however, all we sell are MC parts so they win either way.

east tx skier
05-24-2007, 12:14 PM
I'm wondering if can slap that airfoil on my mufflers. 8p

limegreen
05-24-2007, 07:26 PM
No, I'm not going anywhere...although I'm sure some wish I would.

There isnt the room here to explain the entire process...hell you damn near need a supercomputer to run the modeling program! And really why should I explain it all? You either believe what I am telling you and is being verified by other TMC members or you don't...and frankly I dont care which it is, but don't accuse me of "bashing" just becasue my answer is not what you want to hear.

The reallity is that some think I am trying to sell "MYMC" parts by "bashing" MC parts; however, all we sell are MC parts so they win either way.

My apologies. I did not know that MYMC and MC are like the same thing. It seems like competition to me.

I should not have used the word bashing, and I apologize. Still I think this site is for used for open discussion, and I was looking for more information.

I did what you said, I looked in the tips. But I can't see inside the mufflers that I am removing so I don't know if the new installation is more or less restrictive.

It is still confusing to me why the 07 MC versions would be installed on everything if they are hindering performance.

I think you guys are a little defensive, but I will readily take the high road and give you all my apologies. SORRY MYMC!!

So, to spruce it up would you recommend leaving the mufflers in place and putting on the MYMC tips?

cg

limegreen
05-24-2007, 07:30 PM
BTW

I am not the only naive one that thought that way; Jesus Freak said the same thing basically - that you were trying to sell a competing brand.

I guess mine was alot less polite, in addition to naive.

I am sorry.

cg

TMCNo1
05-24-2007, 07:54 PM
BTW

I am not the only naive one that thought that way; Jesus Freak said the same thing basically - that you were trying to sell a competing brand.

I guess mine was alot less polite, in addition to naive.

I am sorry.

cg


MC is Mastercraft Boat Company.
MYMC (Mike) is a boat dealer, Mastercraft of Charlotte, who sells New and Used Mastercraft Boats, MasterCraft replacement, repair, Mastercraft by Design parts, among other MasterCraft oriented accessories, watersports equipment and products, as do some other MasterCraft dealers.

TMCNo1
05-24-2007, 08:03 PM
My apologies. I did not know that MYMC and MC are like the same thing. It seems like competition to me.

I should not have used the word bashing, and I apologize. Still I think this site is for used for open discussion, and I was looking for more information.

I did what you said, I looked in the tips. But I can't see inside the mufflers that I am removing so I don't know if the new installation is more or less restrictive.

It is still confusing to me why the 07 MC versions would be installed on everything if they are hindering performance.

I think you guys are a little defensive, but I will readily take the high road and give you all my apologies. SORRY MYMC!!

So, to spruce it up would you recommend leaving the mufflers in place and putting on the MYMC tips?

cg


Maybe Mike (MYMC) MasterCraft of Charlotte can elaborate more, or correct me, but,

The MasterCraft by Design tips, either installed optionally on previous years boats or retrofitted, are only polished S/S straight thru (no baffle) dressup prudy tips.

The '07 tips look like the MasterCraft by Design tips, but are in fact baffled (muffler system) tips that act as mufflers so the big crossover transverse muffler or other mufflers on certain engines are eliminated.

bigmac
05-24-2007, 09:12 PM
.....

I think you guys are a little defensive, but I will readily take the high road and give you all my apologies. SORRY MYMC!!

.....

Perhaps I'm the only one struggling to identify the extent of the sincerity in your apology?



.

Jesus_Freak
05-28-2007, 04:14 AM
BTW

I am not the only naive one that thought that way; Jesus Freak said the same thing basically - that you were trying to sell a competing brand.

I guess mine was alot less polite, in addition to naive.

I am sorry.

cg

I am not quite sure which quote you are referring to. If you want to know what I think of Mike, it can be found in http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=14426.

Jesus_Freak
05-28-2007, 04:14 AM
double post......sorry

Jesus_Freak
05-28-2007, 04:36 AM
double post AGAIN ....sorry

limegreen
05-29-2007, 12:31 PM
Perhaps I'm the only one struggling to identify the extent of the sincerity in your apology?



.

I can't help you there, I said it four times. So now it is out there for all to judge.

Hopefully I'll get a second chance somewhere along the line.

lime

limegreen
05-29-2007, 12:33 PM
So, to spruce it up would you recommend leaving the mufflers in place and putting on the MYMC tips?

MYMC is this what you would do then? I am just after the look really.

lime

Diesel
05-29-2007, 12:44 PM
S I am just after the look really.

lime

See I don't understand this part. You are "after the look" of something that is below the water line and which no one sees 90% of the time. Sounds like a lot of trouble for such a small ROI :confused:

limegreen
05-29-2007, 12:50 PM
See I don't understand this part. You are "after the look" of something that is below the water line and which no one sees 90% of the time. Sounds like a lot of trouble for such a small ROI :confused:

You are right, it is a little excessive.

I saw a photo of the ash end of a row of boats from Jim BAWS; they had SS tips, SS rudder, teak decks and I just like the look when it is on the trailer.

I got the teak deck new from MYMC and installed, so now just looking to complete it. Kind of ole skool I guess.

cg

MYMC
05-29-2007, 01:04 PM
So, to spruce it up would you recommend leaving the mufflers in place and putting on the MYMC tips?

MYMC is this what you would do then? I am just after the look really.

lime
If all you are looking for is "the look" then by all means use the 2007 tips...as I said before the performance difference between the glass muffler and the tip on a RTP or MCX is small. When you get into the larger engines the tips are an issue.

duckguy
05-29-2007, 01:12 PM
Hey Mymc Do you have a graph comparing hp/trq on the rtp and mcx

MYMC
05-29-2007, 01:23 PM
Hey Mymc Do you have a graph comparing hp/trq on the rtp and mcx
Yes, but it is already posted in here somewhere...check with engine nut.

duckguy
05-29-2007, 01:26 PM
its just so hard on here to search that stuff cause it wont let you search mcx or rtp etc

dmayer84
05-29-2007, 01:28 PM
its just so hard on here to search that stuff cause it wont let you search mcx or rtp etc

do this for a google search "mcx site:tmcowners.com"

east tx skier
05-29-2007, 01:32 PM
You might try PMing Engine Nut. He was very helpful in getting me a wiring schematic recently.

MYMC
05-29-2007, 02:23 PM
its just so hard on here to search that stuff cause it wont let you search mcx or rtp etc
I have them; however, I gave my word that I would not publish them or give them out when they were given to me.

Engine Nut on the other hand has the information (has posted it before) and works for Indmar so he has far more lattiude with the information than I do.