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View Full Version : OJ vs ACME - the grudge match!


duckguy
05-09-2007, 02:40 PM
Alright as you know or dont I have an 06 X2 RTP awhile ago a disccusion was started about what prop is best for these boats as stockers for 06 were just not cutting it. I had replaced mine with an ACME 1285. It was a very smooth running prop and I was pleased. Eric from OJ-who I might add is a very stand up guy and someone I would reccomend to anyone, had chalenged that there new XMP EDGE 4-blade 14.25 X 14.5, part# 473 prop would be better, and less expensive to boot. So last night I set out to find out. The OJ has very nice fit and finish. It was a very very smooth operating prop, I would say equal to the ACME. This difference in smoothness will suprise you. Here are some figures: done with 4 in the boat on glass.

Top Speed
ACME-40 mph
OJ-47-49

RPM at Top speed
ACME-5500
OJ-5000

RPM at Wakeboard speed-very important
Acme-4000
OJ-3000

My impressions are that they are both equally as smooth throughout the range. The OJ has a higher top speed. I dont run at WOT much but 8 mph on the top is nice to have. I run with about 1800lbs total ballast, much more than stock and both pull out of the hole very very well. I this. IF you run with stck ballast OJ is best. If your boat runs ballast like mine with less than 5 on the boat OJ is best. Tubing cruising and skiing-OJ is for sure the best choice. Boarding with over five and full ballast like mine- ACME. This OJ will be on my boat 80% of the time. I would also say that for most of you especially if you run stock ballast that the OJ is all you will ever need or want. If your noat is really loaded down than toss the Acme on-Good job OJ and thanks Eric.

duckguy
05-09-2007, 02:43 PM
Here is the OJ on.

Monte
05-09-2007, 02:43 PM
Very informative duckguy... Thanks for the comparison..

etakk7
05-09-2007, 02:43 PM
Is it better to have high RPM's at wakeboard speed with ballast?

duckguy
05-09-2007, 02:45 PM
If the boat gets out of the whole fast which the OJ does for most applications you will burn far less fuel.

Archimedes
05-09-2007, 02:51 PM
[QUOTE=duckguy]
Top Speed
ACME-40 mph
OJ-47-49

RPM at Top speed
ACME-5500
OJ-5000

RPM at Wakeboard speed-very important
Acme-3000
OJ-4000
QUOTE]

I'm confused. Why would you ever want to have your motor running 30% higher RPMs at wakeboarding speed?

duckguy
05-09-2007, 02:53 PM
You wouldn't thats kinda the point-see The Acme seems like it will get the boat a is very loaded out of the hole better, but you will pay for it. I ont run my ACME again unless I have 8-10 people on mine with all my aftermarket ballast.

etakk7
05-09-2007, 03:01 PM
If the boat gets out of the whole fast which the OJ does for most applications you will burn far less fuel.


You will burn far less fuel with higher RPM's you mean?

duckguy
05-09-2007, 03:06 PM
NO-Im saying that for most applications the OJ will as effecitively get the boat out of the hole and turn less r's and burn lerss fuel

shepherd
05-09-2007, 03:12 PM
Good write-up duck. Thanks for sharing. Wow, a 7-9 mph difference in top speed is pretty significant.

I think what Arch was getting at is that you have the OJ listed at a higher rpm than the Acme at wakeboard speeds. Was that a typo? If not, I guess I'm missing your point too.

djhuff
05-09-2007, 03:25 PM
Hmm, I didn't notice that much top end difference. Maybe 2-3 mph. Check your calibration. I don't run WOT, but at around 5K rpm, I'm only getting 38-39.

I'm also getting VERY similar rpms at wakeboarding speeds between the two. I'm getting my ACME back soon and giving the OJ loaner back to the dealer and will note the changes more scientifically, but they don't feel as different as your numbers suggest.

TX.X-30 fan
05-09-2007, 03:34 PM
All I know is this guy swears :rant: by Acme. ;)




21662

duckguy
05-09-2007, 03:37 PM
That was a typo-Fixed now. I was amazed at the top end difference. We were flying

P-hat_in_Cincy
05-09-2007, 03:48 PM
Top Speed
ACME-40 mph
OJ-47-49

RPM at Top speed
ACME-5500
OJ-5000


Just be careful, 5500RPM is outside your max allowable WOT RPM of 5200! :D

What wakeboard speed? Running about 2000lbs of ballast + whatever people and gear, I'm running ~3200RPM at ~22mph. 310hp Predator in a 2004 PS205V.

Would it be beneficial to know what ranges our engines produced max torque and HP?

duckguy
05-09-2007, 03:58 PM
About 22-23

P-hat_in_Cincy
05-09-2007, 04:08 PM
I compared 2 different OJ props when my stocker (also OJ) was sluggish when loaded with weight. (http://www.wakesiderides.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17915 )

Here were my specs when I tested (and eventually bought) the 14.25 x 14.5 with .120 cup (OJ part #472).

Running the Predator (engine):
Wakeboard: 3300RPM @ 23mph (stock 19 pitch prop was ~3100RPM).
Slalom: 3800RPM @ 30mph.
"Top end": 4800RPM (rec WOT limit), I was running about 39mph (according to MC spedo).

I am still absolutely in love with the performance the prop change gave back to me. I never tested an ACME b/c I was more than satisfied with the OJ.

Thanks for the comparison write-up. It's cool you tried both out.

JohnnyB
05-09-2007, 07:12 PM
What is the pitch and diameter size of each prop?

It seems as though the ACME is set up more as a wakeboard prop and the OJ is set up more as a speed prop (footin', etc.)

It would be interesting to see the performance if both ACME and OJ sized the props for your target use.

I did this a couple of years ago with my boat to try to squeeze a few more MPH out of it and reduce the WOT RPM range. Both the ACME and OJ for the application were close in performance....

André
05-09-2007, 07:43 PM
Having troubles with your numbers.
You never mentionned the ACME pitch and diameter.
1000 rpms difference is a lot and the mph difference is even more mind buggling.
Were you realy comparing two similar products or totally different props ,pitch and diameter?:confused:

EJ OJPROP
05-10-2007, 06:12 AM
Duck - Thanks for giving our prop a shot, I do appreciate your effort. The Acme is a 14.5 X 14. The OJ XMP EDGE is a 14.25 X 14.5. Doing a straight head to head is tough since the other props are larger diameter than the XMP EDGE. We also offer in the XMP EDGE line a 14.25 X 14 and a 14.25 X 14.75. The 14" pitch EDGE will provide a little better low end than the 14.5 EDGE. It really depends on the motor in the particular boat and how much extra ballast one runs. That is why we offer 3 sizes in order to cover different applications.

P-hat_in_Cincy
05-10-2007, 08:18 AM
This thread made me pay some more attention to conditions when we were out last night. I continue to be amazed at how the prop change brought unloaded boat performance back to my ballast(ed) boat.

While pulling I'll run it up to about 3800RPM at start and it'll climb to it's set-speed (21-22mph) in, what seems to be, 5-7sec! Then I'll run 3100-3300rpm depending on rider speed.

When cruising along and deciding to do a high(er) speed run back to the dock you can feel the tail end of the boat just climb on top the water and run when hammering down on the throttle (again, 4800RPM is my max rec. WOT so that's all I push it).

What a cool feeling. :cool:

Oh...and it's a decent wood cutter too (water was a little 'chunky' in spots)! :o

east tx skier
05-12-2007, 08:51 PM
Eric answered my first questions as to what the dimensions/pitch of the acme were. Were these both four blades?

dougau
05-28-2007, 04:11 AM
On Sunday I installed my XMP EDGE 4-blade 14.25 X 14.5. The previous prop was also an OJ prop 13.7 X 17. What a difference! The new one is fantastic - it is like driving a new boat! Great accelleration and onto the plane very quickly, I would recommend this prop to anyone with the same boat ('06 X2 RTP-1 motor). For info - at 23mph we are doing 3,000 revs (with a lightish load) - Thanks Eric.

BearX1
05-29-2007, 01:52 AM
Sorry for the hi-jack . . . I picked up an OJ 14.25 x 14.0 and have yet to install it. It will be going on an '06 X1 with the RTP-1 engine. I run between 1800# and 2000# of ballast plus people. What can I expect from the 14.25 x 14.0 when compared to the 14.25 x 14.5? Sounds like the X2's above are doing great with the latter of the two, with the same engine. Should I cut to the chase and exchange the prop, before using? I am interested in a good hole shot and fuel economy, and don't care much about top end speed. I'm currently running the stock 13.7 x 17.0

Any thoughts?

Thanks for your help, and hi-jack over.

PendO
05-29-2007, 02:02 AM
Sorry for the hi-jack . . . I picked up an OJ 14.25 x 14.0 and have yet to install it. It will be going on an '06 X1 with the RTP-1 engine. I run between 1800# and 2000# of ballast plus people. What can I expect from the 14.25 x 14.0 when compared to the 14.25 x 14.5? Sounds like the X2's above are doing great with the latter of the two, with the same engine. Should I cut to the chase and exchange the prop, before using? I am interested in a good hole shot and fuel economy, and don't care much about top end speed. I'm currently running the stock 13.7 x 17.0

Any thoughts?

Thanks for your help, and hi-jack over.

in the same diameter the 14 pitch will have more holeshot than the 14.5 pitch (think of it like a pickup having 4.10 gears instead of a 3.92 rear end) ... the 14 will turn more rpms at the same speed, so you will loose fuel economy with the 14 (theoretically) ...

dougau
05-29-2007, 02:46 AM
Sorry for the hi-jack . . . I picked up an OJ 14.25 x 14.0 and have yet to install it. It will be going on an '06 X1 with the RTP-1 engine. I run between 1800# and 2000# of ballast plus people. What can I expect from the 14.25 x 14.0 when compared to the 14.25 x 14.5? Sounds like the X2's above are doing great with the latter of the two, with the same engine. Should I cut to the chase and exchange the prop, before using? I am interested in a good hole shot and fuel economy, and don't care much about top end speed. I'm currently running the stock 13.7 x 17.0

Any thoughts?

Thanks for your help, and hi-jack over.


From what I understand, the second number being the pitch, determines how much water it "grabs" per revolution and the first number is the diameter of the prop. Your prop (14 pitch) will "spin faster" as it is grabbing less water per revolution than the 14.5 but then at the top end it might spin too fast (and lose speed) as the diameter(size) is the same as the 14.5?

One has to consider both numbers together with the boat size and motor to achieve the best power to weight ratio to determine overall performance. What you gain on power on starting you sacrifice on speed. A bigger prop grabbing less water or a smaller prop grabbing more water.

Your X1 is fairly similar to the X2 in both weight, length and engine size so I would suggest you might consider the 14.5? The hole shot is great and I am very happy with it.

I know Eric recommends the 14.25 X 14.75 if you have the MCX motor (as it has the power to grab more water).

I am sure there are more considerations to take into account and I would suggest you contact Eric at OJ directly and he will be able to advise you?

Good luck-whatever choice you make it is a big improvement!!!

32offer
05-29-2007, 04:41 PM
Anyone ever done this type of prop comparison on a Prostar 197? I have an OJ 13" x 13" ss 4-blade on mine now. I've heard an ACME 3-blade prop will give a flatter/softer wake and faster out of the hole acceleration.

PendO
05-29-2007, 04:47 PM
Anyone ever done this type of prop comparison on a Prostar 197? I have an OJ 13" x 13" ss 4-blade on mine now. I've heard an ACME 3-blade prop will give a flatter/softer wake and faster out of the hole acceleration.

I have a new 3 blade on my 06 1.26:1 ... I need to verify with gps ... when I had it out yesterday seemed to have gained mph by winterizing and summerizing (so I will have to sort it out) ... OJ did not make a 3 blade for my setup with the 1.26:1 ... but I belive Jrandol had a 3 blade acme on his 197 and had great results

BearX1
05-29-2007, 08:49 PM
Hi-jack (again) - PendO & Doug, thanks for the advice . . . I am going to switch out the prop. These discussion forums ROCK! for nformation.

Cheers.

End Hi-Jack.

EJ OJPROP
05-30-2007, 07:23 AM
We do offer a 3-blade for the 1.26:1 transmission, 13 X 12 LC or 13 X 12.5 LC XMP.

EJ OJPROP
05-30-2007, 07:25 AM
Try our 13 X 11.5 LC XMP 3-blade.

Anyone ever done this type of prop comparison on a Prostar 197? I have an OJ 13" x 13" ss 4-blade on mine now. I've heard an ACME 3-blade prop will give a flatter/softer wake and faster out of the hole acceleration.

PendO
05-30-2007, 11:03 AM
We do offer a 3-blade for the 1.26:1 transmission, 13 X 12 LC or 13 X 12.5 LC XMP.

not enough pitch w/ the mcx and that tranny I will hit the rev limiter way too early ... right? (stock is 13.7 X 15 4-blade)

And I am not saying the 3 blade Acme (13.25 X 15.0 .090 - model 1281) is any better as I have not done enough testing, I just want a 2nd prop around in case I ding one, and I want a prop that allows me to get to 5200rpms at wide open throttle ... and I would like 46mph+ at WOT

EJ OJPROP
05-30-2007, 11:47 AM
We are running the 13 X 12 on that set up now. It does run a bit higher RPM but the low end and mid range punch is very strong. It's worth a risk free trial.

PendO
05-30-2007, 01:41 PM
We are running the 13 X 12 on that set up now. It does run a bit higher RPM but the low end and mid range punch is very strong. It's worth a risk free trial.

Thanks Eric for the offer ... my only concern is my addiction to putting the throttle all the way down when pulling my buddy on a footin' run, or just putting it down b/c I like the sound of the engine.

Right Now we have 4 OJ's and 1 Acme

For the X-star with the L-18

OJ 4 blade 13.7 X 22 (too big)

OJ 4 blade 13.7X 17 (too small at WOT, but awesome for Surfing and maintainign rpms

OJ 4 blade 13.7 X 19.5 (seems to be perfect - but only my brother has been in the boat with it and I will confirm this weekend the specs with GPS)

For my 197 w/ the MCX 1.26:1

OJ 4 blade 13.7 X 15

Acme 3 blade 13.25 X 15

We operate at appx 2062.0-2062.5 feet above sea level ... from a previous post I have come to understand that my 13.7 X 15 preforms to the exact specs MC wanted the prop designed, I have no complaints about the props workmanship/quality ... ultimately both my dad and I are/were trying to gain top end speed w/o sacrificing noticeable holeshot ... I expect when someone comes out with a 3 blade for the L-18 I will own one of those as well ... what I would really like to try is a prototype OJ 3 blade in the 13.7 diameter with pitch somewhere between 14.5 and 15 (got one of those laying around:))

If you think I can stay below redline @ WOT with the 13 X 12 I would give it a try, with the 13.25 X 15 on Monday I was at 5190rpms at WOT.

EJ OJPROP
05-30-2007, 03:01 PM
I don't think you will get on the limiter with the 13 X 12 or 13 X 12.5. If it's speed AND low end you are looking for, then give the 12 and or 12.5 a shot.

32offer
05-30-2007, 03:27 PM
Will I loose any top speed with this prop size over the 4-blade ss? Also, as fuel economy is becoming a larger issue, will this effect that for the better or worse?
thanks

EJ OJPROP
05-30-2007, 03:30 PM
You should not lose any top end, RPM should be close to the same. If you'd like the motor to run less RPM, then a 13 X 12 LC would do the trick. You may lose some low end with the 12 but run less RPM throughout the range.

32offer
05-30-2007, 03:31 PM
How does your risk-free trial work? And how long can one keep a prop? The way the rain and wind have been here in the midwest, it may be a couple weeks before I could even get on the water.

3event
05-30-2007, 03:44 PM
As another 2002 PS197 owner reading with interest.....

Dumb question, I thought on a 13 x 12, I should read as 13" dia and 12" pitch - right? Pitch is the # of inches the tip travels in the forward direction assuming zero slip.

And from old days of swapping cheap and notsocheap props on outboards, higher pitch meant less RPM, less low end (like starting in a higher gear) and better top end because at equal RPM , a higher pitch prop moves forward further than a lower pitch prop.

So how is Pendo going to go from a 15 pitch to a 12 pitch on his 197, and not lose top end or run into his RPM limits?

EJ OJPROP
05-30-2007, 04:30 PM
32 offer- Free trial - I send you a prop to try. Run it and determine if it works for you, however long that may take, and let me know. Couple os weeks is not a problem.

3event- On paper you are right, a 12" pitch propeller should move the boat 12" with each revolution. As my golf buddies like to say when they complain about our weekend pairings..that team sure looks good on paper, well thats why we play on grass. Lots of things factor into the actual distance the boat will travel with each revolution. With the outboard props each increase in pitch usually comes with a change in diameter. The outboards are also able to change the attack angle of the propeller through trim. All I can tell you is that I have tested the 13 X 12 LC XMP 3-blade with .150 cup on the MC's with the 1.26:1 trans, and they are a beast out of the hole, run stronger in the mid range and are comparable on the top end.

Sodar
05-30-2007, 04:37 PM
Eric,

In my PS 197 w/ MCX 1:1 is topping out at 4810 rpms. What will I gain if I get a prop that will spin the allowed 5200 rpms?

alp
05-30-2007, 04:44 PM
Just my 2 cents. We just switched out the original 14 x 18 3 blade on our 92 PS 190 (285hp w/ power slot) with the OJ #454 XMP 13.7 x 17.5 4 blade recommended by EJ. Tremendous upgrade - increased low end power, reduced rpms by 100 at 34 mph, from 3,500 to 3,400, softened up the rooster tail, improved fuel economy and all around better feel.

32offer
05-30-2007, 05:01 PM
Sounds like a heck of a deal. I'll be in touch. The main thing I'm after is a smoother wake for slalom skiing. I've heard comments that this prop will decrease wake size and hardness somewhat. Would you agree with this? My top speed and holeshot are fine, so any increase in those would just be a plus.

3event
05-30-2007, 05:35 PM
EJ, thanks for the reply. Understand, many variables here. Sometimes the more prop-related threads I read the less I know.

32offer, what motor and trans are your running? Please do post your results when you have 'em. I have the same need as you do. No complaint really on power or top end with my stock prop, a 3blade 14pitch. The Predator 310 gets up to 47.3mph. But I could use a softer wake, less bump. If I can do that with a prop, it beats thinking about having the "hook" glassed into the hull.

EJ OJPROP
05-31-2007, 07:19 AM
SodarSki - What year is your boat?

Sodar
05-31-2007, 10:11 AM
SodarSki - What year is your boat?

2007 PS 197

BearX1
06-04-2007, 12:25 PM
Hi-Jack

I ran the OJ 14.25 x 14.5 for the first time, this past weekend. Great improvement, and I'm very grateful for the information in these threads.

Siskel and Ebert, two thumbs up!!

Cheers.

End Hi-Jack

32offer
06-05-2007, 12:22 PM
310 HP Predator, 1:1 trans.

32offer
06-05-2007, 12:48 PM
32 offer- Free trial - I send you a prop to try. Run it and determine if it works for you, however long that may take, and let me know. Couple os weeks is not a problem.

3event- On paper you are right, a 12" pitch propeller should move the boat 12" with each revolution. As my golf buddies like to say when they complain about our weekend pairings..that team sure looks good on paper, well thats why we play on grass. Lots of things factor into the actual distance the boat will travel with each revolution. With the outboard props each increase in pitch usually comes with a change in diameter. The outboards are also able to change the attack angle of the propeller through trim. All I can tell you is that I have tested the 13 X 12 LC XMP 3-blade with .150 cup on the MC's with the 1.26:1 trans, and they are a beast out of the hole, run stronger in the mid range and are comparable on the top end.
I think I'd like to go ahead and give a prop (or two) a test. how do I go about this. Got a number to call?
thanks

dmayer84
06-05-2007, 12:54 PM
I think I'd like to go ahead and give a prop (or two) a test. how do I go about this. Got a number to call?
thanks

Call Eric @ 1800-359-9730, I called him yesterday and he said he is shipping me the 2 new props today to try out. Cant wait to get them.

edwin
06-06-2007, 06:30 PM
You folks looking for a bump in performance owe it to yourself to take Eric up on the offer...the XMP's are quite impressive to say the least. What do you have to lose?

32offer
06-26-2007, 05:45 PM
I think I'd like to go ahead and give a prop (or two) a test. how do I go about this. Got a number to call?
thanks
Eric, I still haven't had a chance to try out the three props you sent me. The wind/weather around here just isn't cooperating. I'd like to get on some real smooth water to really get a good feel of how the wake and holeshot are. I hope to have them back to you in the next couple weeks. Thanks again for sending them out to me to test. I'll post my results as soon as I can.

alp
06-27-2007, 10:06 AM
The OJ XMP 454 we put on our 92 PS 190 this year is amazing! Dropped the rpms a good 100 at 34 mph, settled down the rooster tail, holds 18 mph like a vise and just a touch smoother than the original 3 blade 14x18.

PaulW
06-27-2007, 10:22 AM
Great info here, thanks Eric

32offer
07-30-2007, 06:00 PM
Finally had a chance to test of the three OJ props on my '02 MC Prostar 197. The 12.5 x 12 4-Blade XMP was definitely smoother than the 4 blade Stainless prop, but did not notice any increases in performance. Both of the 3-Blade XMP props gave a better holeshot and were also much smoother. I am getting the 13 x 12 (.090) 3-blade XMP. The RPM's on all 4 props, including the 4 blade ss, were within about 100 throughout the entire range, and not more than 1 mph top end difference. My new boat has not been timed in properly yet, so I cannot give any exact speed vs. RPM info. At WOT, they were around 4900 RPMs.