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floridamastercraft
05-08-2007, 10:58 PM
I'm looking to get a new truck and i tow alot.... I tow a work trailer that is about 1500lbs daily and a boat 4 times a week that is about 4300 lbs... i just don't want it to sag in the back either? plus 5.3 or 6.0 or diesel... so either a 1/2 or 3/4 ton ... it will be a crew cab and the bed length is not that big of a deal..

06' X-2 R8R H8R
05-08-2007, 11:06 PM
3/4 ton would not fail you....get the diesel, I wished that I would have. I have a HD2500 with the 6.0 and I still feel the boat behind.

onewheat
05-08-2007, 11:18 PM
You didn't specify what you wanted to spend. I have a 1500HD Silverado with the 6.0 liter (Crew Cab/Short bed). It tows nice, rides nice empty (for a truck) and I average around 13 mpg while keeping my foot out of it. On a highway trip, I will get around 15 - 16 mpg with the cruise set at 75. Towing my X-15 (around 5000 lbs, I think), I get around 9 - 10 mpg running my 4 hour trip to the lake down I-75. The X-15 bounces the rear of my truck a bit when it gets bumpy makeing me wonder about my shocks or possibly adding some airbags to help out while towing. I definitely know the trailer is back there while crossing the Jellico mountains and on some of the longer uphill sections in KY. I can always put my foot to the floor and accelerate, even uphill, but watching the 'Instand MPG' readout sit on 3 MPG while accelerating up a mile long hill when gas is $3.10 a gallon bothers me. If I had to do it again, I may have gone with the 3/4 ton instead, just because, but other than bumpy towing the boat, I have never really had the need for it. My 1500 does squat a little when the boat is hitched up, but I definitely would not call it sagging. It drops around 1" - 2", I would guess. Never having driven a diesel, I can't really compare the two. I know when I bought my truck in '03, the diesel option was something on the order of another $5 - $6000. That is a lot of extra fuel I have to burn to break even on that upgrade. So back to the first question, what do you want to spend?

rock skier
05-08-2007, 11:54 PM
Even though what you tow isn't that heavy I'd go for the diesel if the extra cost doesn't break the bank for you. I've got a 2500hd with the duramax/alli combo and I couldn't be happier when I tow the boat with it. The truck hardly squats at all when the ps190 is hooked up to it and I've pulled it over various mountain passes with the bed full of a weeks worth of gear for 5 people without having to slow down or even have overdrive unlock. The diesel is the way to go. Unloaded daily driving which for me is about 80% highway I get 15-18mpg on average. Kinda depends on how hard I am on the go pedal. Towing I've only seen as low as 14mpg. I'd probably get better averages on both if I'd slow down below 70mph on the highway...

I always go for a little overkill so if for some reason I'd need to be able to load more stuff or get a bigger boat I won't be kicking myself for not having the right truck.

tones03
05-08-2007, 11:54 PM
It also depends on how long you want to keep the vehicle, the Duramax should last well over 250k miles, 6.0 could also but the resale isnt as good on the gas. I would say the extra money would be worth the desiel.

DemolitionMan
05-09-2007, 01:06 AM
I just sold my 2003 2500 crew cab with with the 6.0, it had 300 hp. I replaced it with a 2007 1500 crew cab 5.3. It has 315 horse power and gets 20 mile per gallon with flex fuel engine. Both trucks pulled my boat great but the 1500 rides a lot smoother.

rspiecha
05-09-2007, 04:48 AM
Get the 2500HD with the Duramax, 360HP 650TQ, six speed allison trans. Pulls my Maristar 210 VRS at any speed, but keep it at 65 and you will get 17-18 mph. I'm getting 15 mph city, and 18-20 highway without towing. Truck has only 5k and still breaking in. Waiting for 20k miles to get programmer to get 500 HP 850TQ or 400HP 740TQ to the wheels. My previous truck was 2000 2500 with 6.0 gas engine, it was always down shifting for hills, the diesel just spools up turbo on hills and keeps the same gear, actually starts to accelerate all without it changing gears. Pretty cool. And quieter interior noise, compared to the 6.0 with dual exhaust out the back.

rstitson
05-09-2007, 06:30 AM
I would agree that a 1/2 ton is sufficient. I tow with a 1/2 with no issues and a small block 8 with a new x-15. I think u will always feel the trailer behind you. If you are concerned look at the 1/2 tundra with 10,000 lbs towing capacity. Also there are a lot of SUV's towing big boats doing just fine and those are 1/2 capacity for the most part.. I would go gas because recouping the cost of deisiel will be difficult and limit you options on models.... The way it is going buying more than you need will cost significantly more in fuel costs. Same goes for boats. The x-15 at have again the wait of my singel axle 17 foot glastron tows more nicely than the 17 footer.

floridamastercraft
05-09-2007, 07:38 AM
yea i'm most likely going to go with 1500 or 2500 chevy since i have a gm card rebate plus I'm friends with the truck manager.... since i never owned a truck before I'm just wondering if a 2500 diesel would be over kill but I have a suv now and it need more power and i can feel the boat there with no problem....
the diesel is 7k option so it would take a while to pay back that with gas but than again the diesel as better resale so that will make up for it a little.... (& I only keep my cars for 3-5 year at the most)...

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-09-2007, 08:42 AM
I recommend the 1500. The 1500 will easily tow that. I sell alot of them to people that tow and they tow loads like that with NO problem. I see SO many people over buy when it comes to trucks. I only advise people to buy a 3/4 ton if they REALLY need it. I mean REALLY need it. otherwise, your just wasting money. The 1500's they build nowadays are great tow vehicles. If you were towing in excess of 7000 lbs on a regular basis, then I would say look at the 3/4/ but 1500 lbs is a cakewalk, and the 4300 lb boat is NO problem with a 5.3 in a 1500. a 3/4 ton is just not necessary for your needs. and a diesel is really overkill and very expensive. I do recommend the crew cab, very usable. I only recommend a diesel engine if you absolutely have a need for alot of power on a regular basis. Way to many people buy diesels that have NO use for them. Diesel engines are VERY expensive, and cost more to maintain than a gas engine. the fuel economy arguement is mute. You will never gain dollar wise from owning a diesel given the huge cost of the engine, and the maintenence costs, and the fuel prices. Its just not worth it unless you tow or haul very heavy loads on a regular basis. a 1500 with a 5.3 will easily do all you described, with no problem. Good luck!

Workin' 4 Toys
05-09-2007, 08:53 AM
yea i'm most likely going to go with 1500 or 2500 chevy since i have a gm card rebate plus I'm friends with the truck manager.... since i never owned a truck before I'm just wondering if a 2500 diesel would be over kill but I have a suv now and it need more power and i can feel the boat there with no problem....
the diesel is 7k option so it would take a while to pay back that with gas but than again the diesel as better resale so that will make up for it a little.... (& I only keep my cars for 3-5 year at the most)...
Sounds to me like you are leaning towards the diesel already. GO WITH IT!!! If you need convincing, drive them both. Crewcab, 4x4, short bed, diesel, GMC....Sounds like the perfect combination to me....

Maristar210
05-09-2007, 09:21 AM
8p I recommend the 1500. The 1500 will easily tow that. I sell alot of them to people that tow and they tow loads like that with NO problem. I see SO many people over buy when it comes to trucks. I only advise people to buy a 3/4 ton if they REALLY need it. I mean REALLY need it. otherwise, your just wasting money. The 1500's they build nowadays are great tow vehicles. If you were towing in excess of 7000 lbs on a regular basis, then I would say look at the 3/4/ but 1500 lbs is a cakewalk, and the 4300 lb boat is NO problem with a 5.3 in a 1500. a 3/4 ton is just not necessary for your needs. and a diesel is really overkill and very expensive. I do recommend the crew cab, very usable. I only recommend a diesel engine if you absolutely have a need for alot of power on a regular basis. Way to many people buy diesels that have NO use for them. Diesel engines are VERY expensive, and cost more to maintain than a gas engine. the fuel economy arguement is mute. You will never gain dollar wise from owning a diesel given the huge cost of the engine, and the maintenence costs, and the fuel prices. Its just not worth it unless you tow or haul very heavy loads on a regular basis. a 1500 with a 5.3 will easily do all you described, with no problem. Good luck!


UMP's informative post number 22.8p

I own a GMC 1500 Ext cab with 3:43 gears and I hate it when towing. It downshifts at every hill and sucks gas like crazy. I will not own another 1500 with 3:43 gears thats for damn sure. A 2500 with 3:73 is in my future.

betsy&david Harrison
05-09-2007, 10:19 AM
8p


UMP's informative post number 22.8p

I own a GMC 1500 Ext cab with 3:43 gears and I hate it when towing. It downshifts at every hill and sucks gas like crazy. I will not own another 1500 with 3:43 gears thats for damn sure. A 2500 with 3:73 is in my future.
Our chevy 1500 was the worst tow vehicle ever. Tranny went a few thousand miles after we sold it. It was still covered by the warrenty. Our Dodge 2500 is incredible. With a big camper and the boat we can hardly tell we are pulling anything. I think you would be wise to get a bigger motor in your future too.

milkmania
05-09-2007, 10:19 AM
A 2500 with 3:73 is in my future.

my 2500 sub's got 4:11's

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-09-2007, 10:30 AM
I have peeps that have optional 4:10 rear ends in the 1500 too, and they tow better, and the fuel mileage isnt affected all that much for everyday driving. I just cant see how people have trouble towing with the 1500s. We have alot of people that tow good sized campers with them and have no problems at all. I dont get it. You have to remember people, towing a load behind you is going to require your vehicle to shift more, and you are going to notice it there in the handling. Sometimes I dont know what people expect when it comes to towing.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-09-2007, 10:32 AM
8p


UMP's informative post number 22.8p

I own a GMC 1500 Ext cab with 3:43 gears and I hate it when towing. It downshifts at every hill and sucks gas like crazy. I will not own another 1500 with 3:43 gears thats for damn sure. A 2500 with 3:73 is in my future.if you think that 1500 sucks gas, wait till you get that 2500. get your wallet out baby! :cool: I think you need to be a bit more realistic in your expectations Steve.:twocents:

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-09-2007, 10:37 AM
Sounds to me like you are leaning towards the diesel already. GO WITH IT!!! If you need convincing, drive them both. Crewcab, 4x4, short bed, diesel, GMC....Sounds like the perfect combination to me....
If he's looking to keep his costs in check, the gas engine 1500 is certainly sufficient tow rig. the diesel cost is outrageous, and you will never come out ahead financially due to fuel economy. I did the math on this once for a customer, and it would never pay to get a diesel for economic reasons. People have a big misconception about the economic aspects of diesels in pickup trucks. the only reason to get a diesel is if you have a NEED for that much power on a regular basis. if your towing commercially, farm use, horse trailers, etc.... Otherwise, its a waste of money. If you have money to burn, then by all means, buy one up.

Maristar210
05-09-2007, 11:07 AM
if you think that 1500 sucks gas, wait till you get that 2500. get your wallet out baby! :cool: I think you need to be a bit more realistic in your expectations Steve.:


:rolleyes:

When my truck downshifts to stay at speed the RPM's will stay at 4100 for miles. My theory is the lower gears will not downshift as often and plus I like the looks of the 2500 better and since I'm paying, I'll buy what I want 8p :D

Ric
05-09-2007, 11:14 AM
1500HD
don't take no for an answer. This truck does exist.

nuff said..........

Storm861triple
05-09-2007, 11:43 AM
I agree w/everything that UMP said. Everything. My 1500 Chevy tows like a freight train. I can crest Parley's Canyon, UT (7050' elevation) at 80 mph while towing my PS 190, while loaded w/the jetski, Insta-Slalom course, 4 people in the cab, and all the camping gear for a 4 day trip to Powell. It also gets OVER 14 mpg...while towing. The gains you'll get from a diesel over that are negligable at best, and will NEVER pay you back on the initial price.

I also recomment a 1500 or 1500HD, properly optioned

Most people buy 2500's and 2500 Diesels more for ego than towing.

JEREMY79
05-09-2007, 11:43 AM
I have the 2500 HD Silverado with the 6.0- I have no problem towing what ever you want. We tow a steel 4 horse trailer and it goes great. Uses some gas but, that is to be expected. You are not going to get a 3/4 ton truck to get 30 mpg like the little car that you used to drive back in the day. Aint gonna happen. You get a big truck it uses alot of fuel

Workin' 4 Toys
05-09-2007, 11:45 AM
If he's looking to keep his costs in check, the gas engine 1500 is certainly sufficient tow rig. the diesel cost is outrageous, and you will never come out ahead financially due to fuel economy. I did the math on this once for a customer, and it would never pay to get a diesel for economic reasons. People have a big misconception about the economic aspects of diesels in pickup trucks. the only reason to get a diesel is if you have a NEED for that much power on a regular basis. if your towing commercially, farm use, horse trailers, etc.... Otherwise, its a waste of money. If you have money to burn, then by all means, buy one up.
Gas is 3.39 a gallon here, diesel 2.99, yesterday anyway.
It sounds like he will be towing often. Even daily. There is one of many good reasons to have the diesel for his application.
It would be nice to know the mpg difference towing the same loads. Not that it would be significant enough to offset the the maintenance $, but it's certainly worth the extra money if you need the power...

Workin' 4 Toys
05-09-2007, 11:46 AM
Most people buy 2500's and 2500 Diesels more for ego than towing.
I disagree.....

milkmania
05-09-2007, 11:49 AM
I disagree.....

now, he did italicize most


he didn't say all8p

Workin' 4 Toys
05-09-2007, 11:57 AM
now, he did italicize most


he didn't say all8p

I noticed that as well, and still disagree....Some.... maybe....

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-09-2007, 12:21 PM
:rolleyes:

When my truck downshifts to stay at speed the RPM's will stay at 4100 for miles. My theory is the lower gears will not downshift as often and plus I like the looks of the 2500 better and since I'm paying, I'll buy what I want 8p :D
Like I said, if you got money to burn, buy one up!!!;)

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-09-2007, 12:25 PM
Most people buy 2500's and 2500 Diesels more for ego than towing.
TRU DAT! I see it happen everyday. We sell WAY more trucks to people who dont need them than to people who do. Out of all the diesels we sell, about 10% of them actually have a use for the engine. the other 90% just buy them because of the image, the ego. They think they are bad arses just cause they have a big truck. its hilarious to watch those people. and then they cry about the fuel costs!!!!:uglyhamme

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-09-2007, 12:32 PM
I have the 2500 HD Silverado with the 6.0- I have no problem towing what ever you want. We tow a steel 4 horse trailer and it goes great. Uses some gas but, that is to be expected. You are not going to get a 3/4 ton truck to get 30 mpg like the little car that you used to drive back in the day. Aint gonna happen. You get a big truck it uses alot of fuel
GREAT POINT! Thank you for saying what needed to be said Jeremy! :) Why cant more people understand that? I love when people come in looking for 3/4 ton trucks and want them to get over 25 MPG. I have a hard time to keep from laughing at them. I mean lets get real people. If 3/4 trucks got 25 MPG, we would all drive them, and there wouldnt be a need for cars or subcompacts. :rolleyes: Fuel mileage is the most misunderstood thing in the car biz. The ones that REALLY get me are the people that buy a 3/4 ton truck, and are dissatisfied with the fuel costs, so they go out and buy a gas mizer car to use most of the time, and then just use the truck when they need to tow or haul and they think they are saving money. I mean, take the cost of the car, the insurance costs, the maintanence costs, and you will NEVER make that up in the difference in fuel economy!

Maristar210
05-09-2007, 12:32 PM
TRU DAT! I see it happen everyday. We sell WAY more trucks to people who dont need them than to people who do. Out of all the diesels we sell, about 10% of them actually have a use for the engine. the other 90% just buy them because of the image, the ego. They think they are bad arses just cause they have a big truck. its hilarious to watch those people. and then they cry about the fuel costs!!!!:uglyhamme


I don't get the diesel thing either. Noisy, smelly. My co-worker has an F350 Diesel but his wife has a big.......... ask me any questions.... and I'll tell you some lies......

Maristar210
05-09-2007, 12:35 PM
GREAT POINT! Thank you for saying what needed to be said Jeremy! :) Why cant more people understand that? I love when people come in looking for 3/4 ton trucks and want them to get over 25 MPG. I have a hard time to keep from laughing at them. I mean lets get real people. If 3/4 trucks got 25 MPG, we would all drive them, and there wouldnt be a need for cars or subcompacts. :rolleyes: Fuel mileage is the most misunderstood thing in the car biz. The ones that REALLY get me are the people that buy a 3/4 ton truck, and are dissatisfied with the fuel costs, so they go out and buy a gas mizer car to use most of the time, and then just use the truck when they need to tow or haul and they think they are saving money. I mean, take the cost of the car, the insurance costs, the maintanence costs, and you will NEVER make that up in the difference in fuel economy!


Sell me a pinto UMP - Paaaalleeeeeze??

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/Steves389/pinto01.jpg

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-09-2007, 12:36 PM
Gas is 3.39 a gallon here, diesel 2.99, yesterday anyway.
It sounds like he will be towing often. Even daily. There is one of many good reasons to have the diesel for his application.
It would be nice to know the mpg difference towing the same loads. Not that it would be significant enough to offset the the maintenance $, but it's certainly worth the extra money if you need the power...
Well, for the money, I think you have to REALLY have a serious need for the extra power a diesel provides. the weights he mentioned would be easily towed by a 1500. the everyday weight was 1500 lbs which is EASY, and the 4300 boat weight is not a problem with a 1500. In my opinion, you need to get up into the 6000-7000lb range to justify a diesel.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-09-2007, 12:38 PM
I don't get the diesel thing either. Noisy, smelly. My co-worker has an F350 Diesel but his wife has a big.......... ask me any questions.... and I'll tell you some lies......
TRU DAT! on both accounts, noisy and smelly! and expensive!

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-09-2007, 12:40 PM
Sell me a pinto UMP - Paaaalleeeeeze??
[/IMG]
what color you want Stevie baby??
http://cache.consumerist.com/consumer/upload/2006/07/ed%20as%20car%20salesman.jpg

Storm861triple
05-09-2007, 12:44 PM
I noticed that as well, and still disagree....Some.... maybe....
I did emphasize "most". :)

Around here, it is FOR SURE. How many jacekd up, 2500 diesels do I see when I drove to Powell, down at Powell and at all the "stops" between SLC and Powell? Probably 85-90% of the trucks are 3/4 ton diesels. And of those trucks, 90% of those are towing boats LESS than 5000 lbs! It's a complete and total waste of resources (and money)! Last weekend I was at Powell (3rd time of the year already :)). There was some type of bass of fishing thing going on last weekend, so the parking lots were full of trucks w/bass boat trailers. Anyone know how much a bass boat w/a 225hp outboard weighs? About 1600 lbs dry. Less than 2500 lbs fully loaded and ready to FISH. Almost EVERY truck in the lot was a 3/4 ton diesel. Ego, I say. Ego. No need for 650 lb-ft, 4 gallon oil changes, and $$$ part for that type of duty.

Storm861triple
05-09-2007, 12:52 PM
The weights he mentioned would be easily towed by a 1500. The everyday weight was 1500 lbs which is EASY,

I agree. You wouldn't even know it if you were towing 1500 lbs w/a late model 1/2 ton truck.

Does anyone realize that late model trucks are built WAY heavier than older 1/2, 3/4 and 1 ton trucks? Most 1/2 ton trucks now days have at least a 3/4 ton payload rating, and can tow close to 10,000 pounds...when PROPERLY optioned. Most 1/2 ton trucks of today can do what most 1 ton trucks of 15 years ago, STRUGGLED to do. Frames are bigger and stronger, suspension is better, brakes are WAY bigger than comparable class trucks from 15 years ago. Hell, my own 1500 class truck has a 12.5" clutch plate! The thing could be used in a diesel for crying out loud.

The unfortunate side effect is that most 1/2 trucks today WEIGH as much as 3/4 or 1 ton trucks from 15 years ago.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-09-2007, 12:58 PM
I did emphasize "most". :)

Around here, it is FOR SURE. How many jacekd up, 2500 diesels do I see when I drove to Powell, down at Powell and at all the "stops" between SLC and Powell? Probably 85-90% of the trucks are 3/4 ton diesels. And of those trucks, 90% of those are towing boats LESS than 5000 lbs! It's a complete and total waste of resources (and money)! Last weekend I was at Powell (3rd time of the year already :)). There was some type of bass of fishing thing going on last weekend, so the parking lots were full of trucks w/bass boat trailers. Anyone know how much a bass boat w/a 225hp outboard weighs? About 1600 lbs dry. Less than 2500 lbs fully loaded and ready to FISH. Almost EVERY truck in the lot was a 3/4 ton diesel. Ego, I say. Ego. No need for 650 lb-ft, 4 gallon oil changes, and $$$ part for that type of duty. I see it around here too. People driving a 3/4 ton truck (lots of them diesel) because they "tow their camper alot" OK, I know these people and their general driving habits. They go camping about 6 times a summer, and within about 100 miles. even if you had a heavy camper, a 1500 could easily handle that kind of towing with that infrequent of towing. Now if you take a long trip out west every year hauling your camper out there, then I can understand it. but for local weekend towing, its just not needed.

Naste Craft
05-09-2007, 01:11 PM
We just picked up A 2007 duramax crew cab 4x4..:steering: last year we towed our boat to the river 13 times @ 270mi one way with a 99 yukon that got 9 MPG towing and 14mpg around town....:cry: Just Got 21.5 mpg on the new Dramax around town:banana: and its only $2.95 vs $3.35 for fuel.:dance:

JEREMY79
05-09-2007, 01:40 PM
GREAT POINT! Thank you for saying what needed to be said Jeremy! :) Why cant more people understand that? I love when people come in looking for 3/4 ton trucks and want them to get over 25 MPG. I have a hard time to keep from laughing at them. I mean lets get real people. If 3/4 trucks got 25 MPG, we would all drive them, and there wouldnt be a need for cars or subcompacts. :rolleyes: Fuel mileage is the most misunderstood thing in the car biz. The ones that REALLY get me are the people that buy a 3/4 ton truck, and are dissatisfied with the fuel costs, so they go out and buy a gas mizer car to use most of the time, and then just use the truck when they need to tow or haul and they think they are saving money. I mean, take the cost of the car, the insurance costs, the maintanence costs, and you will NEVER make that up in the difference in fuel economy!

Thanks. I am tired of it too. I had a guy in the shop this morning, fussing because his 03 3500 chevy (with the 6.0) wasnt getting good fuel mileage. Come to find out it is getting 16 mpg around town. I did laugh at him and told him I would trade my 2500 for his anyday. Get real--people. Big trucks use fuel

On the ego thing. Around here you see more diesel trucks that dont have a hitch or even a gooseneck ball. They are bought complety for show. I think that is stupid.

Gas $2.79 regular
Diesel $2.99

Rockman
05-09-2007, 02:18 PM
If you are debating between the 1500 and a 2500HD, compromise and get the 2500 without the HD equipment. You can still get the 6.0 motor but the rear gear will not be the 4:10 but the 3.73 or 3:9? Golfhacker's dad on this board has a 1996 2500, 6.0 gas and the truck now has over 200,000 miles on it which is all heavy work towing, everyday.

We have 126,000 miles on our 2002 2500HD and haven't even got new brakes on it yet...which is odd given all the towing we do and the number of miles.

If you are using the truck for more short distances, the 1500 will work. If you have to go longer distances and will tow heavier loads at a later date, get the 2500 or 2500HD.

A friend of ours had the 1500 and didn't like it so he traded it in and got the 2500HD Diesel which he loves.

milkmania
05-09-2007, 03:28 PM
*snip
Fuel mileage is the most misunderstood thing in the car biz.

and fuel prices are the most misunderstood thing in the fuel business:rolleyes:

Thrall
05-09-2007, 04:12 PM
the fuel economy arguement is mute. You will never gain dollar wise from owning a diesel given the huge cost of the engine, and the maintenence costs, and the fuel prices.

While I agree that a 1500 Chevy 5.3L will pull what you need to without issue, you can't discount the fuel savings w/ a diesel, and the maintenance doesn't cost much more at all if you do your own services.
I've owned 1/2 ton trucks all my life and they pull the boat/sleds fine, but drink gas like a MOFO!
Current truck, 02 Chevy Duramax, cc/SB, 4x4.
Avg mileage, hiway 19-20 (75-85mph), town 16-18, towing MC 14-15.
Last truck, 01 Dodge 1500 ec/SB, 4x4.
Avg mileage, hiway 12-14, town 11-13, towing MC 8-10.
Company truck, 05 F150, 5.4l, reg cab, 2wd.
Avg mileage, highway 13-15, town 11-12, towing MC 11-12.

These all reflect the same driving habits and conditions, so unless a new CHevy 1500 will get significantly better mileage than these, the avg difference on mileage is about 6mpg, better w/ the diesel.
In 100k mi, assuming gas and diesel both at $3/gal (some places deisel's cheaper, some aren't)
Diesel 19mpg@100k mi = 5263gal = $15789
Gas 13 mpg@100k mi = 7692gal = $23076
= $7200 difference, about the same as the cost to upgrade.
Selling 2 comparable trucks at 100k mi, one small block gas, the other turbo diesel, the difference in price will be about the same $7k. Look in the autotrader.
Maintenance cost (DIY), 01 Dodge gas, syntehtic, 6k mi change interval. About $45 for oil and filter. Go 3kmi w/ dino oil, about the same.
Diesel (DIY), dino oil, 8k mi change interval. $40-45 for 3 gal of Rotella and filter w/ 1-2qts left over for next oil change. Fuel filter $17 everyother oil change and trans filter $10 every other oil change. Total is $55-60 every interval but I go 2k mi longer between changes.

Air filters cost the same, they're all expensive. Brakes on my 2500HD, like new at 60 k mi, Dodge 1500 on it's 3rd set of front pads by then, 05 F150 on it's 2nd set all the way around at 30k mi, maybe better w/ a Chevy 1500.

Bottom line, if you take your vehicle to the stealer for services, they'll kill you on a diesel vs. gas.

The only "drawback" so far is I have to wait 2-3sec after I turn the key on before I crank the engine in the morning. Oh yeah, it starts at 20 below zero w/o being plugged in too.

That said, if I was looking to "save money" and still needed a full size truck, I'd buy a '88-'98 model GM 1500 or 2500.

Thrall
05-09-2007, 04:17 PM
If you get a 1/2 ton and need more load capacity in back, the easiset and most economical (compared to air bags) solution is to get an add a leaf that bolts over the top of your leaf springs. I've used them extensively on the under-sprung company work trucks we get for years. They'll take 1000# of a$$ dragging load and level your truck back up to normal ride height, and the ride isn't any stiffer unloaded.

wgwollet
05-09-2007, 04:44 PM
Way overkill Thrall........I tow a 2003 MC 230 Maristar about 3500lb and tanden trailer at 1000lb total 4300lb. I tow upthe big Elisbeth town hill in KY to Dale Hollow in TN. My tow truck is a 2003 Chevy 5.3L ext cab short bed with std 3:73 axle Z71 4X4. Being a GM engineer, I am concern about overall cost to operate. This truck will pull fine and I can get about 15mpg towing and 18mpg light. You can even use a 2wd and be OK, but I need 4x4 in the winter months.

So, this truck gets about 90% light use and only 10% towing, so why have all your money tied up in vehicle that is a hog on gas pay $7200 extra for a diesel unless you use it for you rbusiness (like landscaping) and write it off? I don't get these over powered trucks?

Bill

Ric
05-09-2007, 04:55 PM
close this thread please. Ric has aleady spoken!

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-09-2007, 05:08 PM
Thrall, I respect your explanation. Very good! :) . However, your fuel calcs are based on TOWING the entire 100K and that isnt the case for the average joe. I have never seen a customer that tows every single mile they drive their truck. SO you have to take into account the % of time they are actually towing with the trucks to get an accurate cost comparison. your calcs are based on 100K, I never see anyone keep a truck that long. they are always trading or selling WAY earlier than that. And I havent met one person yet that does their own maintenance on them. we service alot of them. Oil changed are costly. plus you need to do trans serving too. and that costs more $$$. And as mentioned earlier, I cant see tying up the $7000 in a truck and paying interest on that money in order to get it out when you sell/trade it unless you have a serious need for that kind of power. Many people "over buy" trucks that are far too heavy duty for their puposes. also, when you go to sell, the used diesel market is very fickle, hot one minute, cold the next. The used market is very fickle, we watch those auction reports, and diesels are not a "sure thing".

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-09-2007, 05:09 PM
close this thread please. Ric has aleady spoken! Ric, go sit in the corner.

Thrall
05-09-2007, 05:15 PM
Way overkill Thrall........I tow a 2003 MC 230 Maristar about 3500lb and tanden trailer at 1000lb total 4300lb. I tow upthe big Elisbeth town hill in KY to Dale Hollow in TN. My tow truck is a 2003 Chevy 5.3L ext cab short bed with std 3:73 axle Z71 4X4. Being a GM engineer, I am concern about overall cost to operate. This truck will pull fine and I can get about 15mpg towing and 18mpg light. You can even use a 2wd and be OK, but I need 4x4 in the winter months.

So, this truck gets about 90% light use and only 10% towing, so why have all your money tied up in vehicle that is a hog on gas pay $7200 extra for a diesel unless you use it for you rbusiness (like landscaping) and write it off? I don't get these over powered trucks?

Bill


I'm not debating that a big diesel pickup is overkill for towing our boats and popup campers around. Heck, I've pulled my PS to the lake w/ a 6cyl Ford Ranger and it worked fine (low altitude, not trying to maintain 70mph on the freeway). Could pull it w/ a 4banger if it was the only way to get it to the lake.
Same could apply to your Maristar 230 vs my PS 190. My "little" boat will do the job just as well, probably pull you up even quicker, but it's not about that.
I happen to be fortunate enough to afford a diesel pickup just as you are w/ your 230. My only point was, that if you do your own maintenance (I've seen people come back w/ $600 invioces from the Ferd dealer for a complete service on their Powerstroke (trans fluid too)!!!), it doesn't cost much more at all to maintain.
Even if you get comparable mileage w/ your 1500 (I probably wouldn't due to the way I drive, but the #'s are relative. I've squeeked 22mpg out of the DMax driving 55-60mph consistently on state roads), you still get back what you spent upon resale.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-09-2007, 05:19 PM
you still get back what you spent upon resale.
I have to disagree on that one. I work at a GM dealer, and I see the market first hand. that is not always the case with diesels. the used diesel market can be quite up and down at times.

Thrall
05-09-2007, 05:38 PM
I have to disagree on that one. I work at a GM dealer, and I see the market first hand. that is not always the case with diesels. the used diesel market can be quite up and down at times.

Maybe so in the UP, but I've been watching for good deals on used diesels for a couple years now, and out here in the West, diesels always fetch top dollar. I gave $8k more than what a comparable gas 6.0 2500 CC pickup was going for (both used) and thought I was getting a decent deal, as dlrs had trucks comparable to mine priced $5-6k higher.
As fuel prices continue to rise, it may be the case that the big trucks (gas and diesel) values go down, but even then, the diesels are going to be in demand more than the gassers on fuel mileage alone.
Look at VW Jetta TDI's they go for alot more $$ than the std 4cyl versions.

JEREMY79
05-09-2007, 09:28 PM
Maybe so in the UP, but I've been watching for good deals on used diesels for a couple years now, and out here in the West, diesels always fetch top dollar..

i.e. USE ranches, farms, ect. If you dont need it, dont buy it. Sorry guys, I will fight this one to the death

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-09-2007, 09:58 PM
i.e. USE ranches, farms, ect. If you dont need it, dont buy it. Sorry guys, I will fight this one to the death
HA HA!! Touche' boys!! Jeremy got the gloves off!!!!:D

Jeremy is right, for the proper application, diesels are fine. Contractors, farmers, etc.... taht need the power. the average guy towing an X star or a camper trailer on weekends just do not NEED a 3/4 ton truck, its that simple. the 1/2 tons built today are towing maniacs!!! just compare it to my 97 model, the towing capacity of 2003 & newer Chevs make the older ones look silly. the new breed of 1/2 tons are great tow vehicles, and make excellent everyday drivers for fuel mileage.

DooSPX
05-09-2007, 10:35 PM
I have a 04 GMC ECSB with the 5.3 3.73 combo. It tows great. I got about 13mpg towing my PS190 and the bed fully loaded with about a 700 lbs in the bed going from WV to FL. it would downshift going over the mountains sometimes. and I actually thinks it rides better with a load.
the power is going to pumped up soon enough, so im not worried about downshifting over mountains anymore because of the power needed to get over it. it will have LT Tri-Y's, and possibly a Radix.

Ric
05-10-2007, 08:47 AM
HA HA!! Touche' boys!! Jeremy got the gloves off!!!!:D

Jeremy is right, for the proper application, diesels are fine. Contractors, farmers, etc.... taht need the power. the average guy towing an X star or a camper trailer on weekends just do not NEED a 3/4 ton truck, its that simple. the 1/2 tons built today are towing maniacs!!! just compare it to my 97 model, the towing capacity of 2003 & newer Chevs make the older ones look silly. the new breed of 1/2 tons are great tow vehicles, and make excellent everyday drivers for fuel mileage. I said to close this thread. All that needed to be said, was said, when I said it.
Then the yooper runs off and says something so silly that I cannot resist.

Ump, I'll take your 97 model GM with a 350 and whatever gearing they were offering the half ton trailerpackage of that yearmodel and drag an 03 & later 5.3/3.42 "towing" combo down the road kicking and screaming.

The answer to this man's original question is 1500HD... Gawd I hate repeating myself!:D

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-10-2007, 09:07 AM
I said to close this thread. All that needed to be said, was said, when I said it.
Then the yooper runs off and says something so silly that I cannot resist.

Ump, I'll take your 97 model GM with a 350 and whatever gearing they were offering the half ton trailerpackage of that yearmodel and drag an 03 & later 5.3/3.42 "towing" combo down the road kicking and screaming.

The answer to this man's original question is 1500HD... Gawd I hate repeating myself!:D
Dont talk nonsense Ric, it cluters up the board. we are trying to have a rational discussion here, and your just littering it with garbage.

Ric
05-10-2007, 09:10 AM
better yet, how bout I hook up to your 97 and bigmac's 5.3l and drag ya both down da road eh?

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-10-2007, 09:18 AM
better yet, how bout I hook up to your 97 and bigmac's 5.3l and drag ya both down da road eh?
Go for it. :D

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-10-2007, 09:29 AM
For those of you interested in facts I just looked it up on the towing charts here.

New 07 silverado 1500 with 5.3 L

ratio -------tow rating
3.73 ==== 7900 lb
4.10 ==== 8900 lb

now you cant tell me that that isnt sufficient enough to tow your mastercraft or even a dam big camper trailer. Even if you tow every weekend a couple hundred miles.

Ric
05-10-2007, 09:44 AM
For those of you interested in facts I just looked it up on the towing charts here.

New 07 silverado 1500 with 5.3 L

ratio -------tow rating
3.73 ==== 7900 lb
4.10 ==== 8900 lb

now you cant tell me that that isnt sufficient enough to tow your mastercraft or even a dam big camper trailer. Even if you tow every weekend a couple hundred miles. at the risk of repeating myself in yet another tow thread, the late model 5.3's of the past few years (eg z71crew) offered a 5.3/3.42....... post the numbers if you like but seat of the pants response from actual owners who actually tow is (except for big mac) disappointed to say the least.

Bravo if GM is back to offering 3.73 gear as the high ratio in the z71 for 2007... I might someday consider it to be a real truck again :cool:

Same goes for you F'd..... Make a real truck and quit pandering to the Gore crowd and watch your sales rise again against the foreigns.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-10-2007, 10:01 AM
at the risk of repeating myself in yet another tow thread, the late model 5.3's of the past few years (eg z71crew) offered a 5.3/3.42....... post the numbers if you like but seat of the pants response from actual owners who actually tow is (except for big mac) disappointed to say the least.

Bravo if GM is back to offering 3.73 gear as the high ratio in the z71 for 2007... I might someday consider it to be a real truck again :cool:

Same goes for you F'd..... Make a real truck and quit pandering to the Gore crowd and watch your sales rise again against the foreigns.
3.73 is available on 2007 new silverados.as is the 3.42 and the 4.10 ratios. Z71 has nothing to do with it, you can get the 3.73 without the Z71. The Z71 is skid plates and HD shocks, jounce bumpers, stablizer bar and decals. Z71 has no bearing on the axle ratio. I will post all the numbers I like, cause they are real! :D

TX.X-30 fan
05-10-2007, 10:13 AM
I cant believe anyone would tow their boat without a Chevy/GMC 2500HD duramax diesel. :D :D :D

Ric
05-10-2007, 10:18 AM
3.73 is available on 2007 new silverados.as is the 3.42 and the 4.10 ratios. Z71 has nothing to do with it, you can get the 3.73 without the Z71. The Z71 is skid plates and HD shocks, jounce bumpers, stablizer bar and decals. Z71 has no bearing on the axle ratio. I will post all the numbers I like, cause they are real! :D I like all the skid plates, and decals, but the point is , the z71 used to be an unquestionable haus of a truck for any of us recreational boaters, campers, hunters, landscapers etc...
Look at the 1500's very recent years past ump... there was no option for the 3.73 axle gear ratio in combination with the 5.3 on the half ton GM's . Now watch your mouth or I'll knock those goggles off ya!

oh and for the record, z71 almost automatically meant that the tow package was included throughout the nineties and early zips... I cannot imagine that to be so these days with the advent of the half bed grocery getter trucks. This is why I mentioned the ratios in relation to the z71 model

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-10-2007, 10:36 AM
I like all the skid plates, and decals, but the point is , the z71 used to be an unquestionable haus of a truck for any of us recreational boaters, campers, hunters, landscapers etc...
Look at the 1500's very recent years past ump... there was no option for the 3.73 axle gear ratio in combination with the 5.3 on the half ton GM's . Now watch your mouth or I'll knock those goggles off ya!

oh and for the record, z71 almost automatically meant that the tow package was included throughout the nineties and early zips... I cannot imagine that to be so these days with the advent of the half bed grocery getter trucks. This is why I mentioned the ratios in relation to the z71 model

What features did you like about the "Z71" so much Ric? the Z71 WAS the shocks, the skids, and decals. what else is it? Most years, thats what it was comprised of.

Keyword being almost. The Z71 OFF ROAD pkg was always a "suspension" package that included skid plates. There was years that it did not include a locking differential, now how much sense does that make? the Z71 was usually ordered with the Z82 towing pkg, just cause it made sense. Most people who wanted the Z71 also wanted the Z82. The Z85 suspension, you can still tow with it just fine. the Z71 is only on the 4x4 in the silverado. The colorado offered Z71 suspension on the 2WD as well.

I will call up Chevrolet and give them your name and email. they can get rid of all their engineers in the silverado division and just hire you. its more cost effective that way.

BTW, I took my goggles off so you cant knock them off8p :D

Storm861triple
05-10-2007, 10:55 AM
...seat of the pants response from actual owners who actually tow is (except for big mac) disappointed to say the least.
I guess I'm in the minority. Here's what I said, two years ago about a '04 5.3 xcab s-bed 4x4 auto 3.73...

...Update for anyone that cares....

Just took her truck to Powell this weekend for the first time towing. I have to say I'm VERY impressed! The power was better than I expected, especially the low RPM torque; it's ability to pull a hill w/the trans in O.D. I also like that you can almost floor it and as long as you move the gas pedal slowly, it will not down shift. But if you move the pedal quickly it'll drop a gear in an instant, ready to charge a good hill.

So any way, for the the fuel economy going down we ran about 65-70 the whole way, '92 PS 190 in tow. 15.6 mpg using a calculator. Miles driven / gallons pumped.

On the way back, 70-75 mph, A/C on the whole way, 15.4 mpg using a calculator. Miles driven / gallons pumped.

It beat my '96 w/the 5 speed. I really wish you could get her truck w/my trans.....

I also agree w/UMP about the Z71; Shocks, decals, and worthless aluminum "skid" plates. Biggest waste of money ever.

Maristar210
05-10-2007, 11:49 AM
UMP

Let me ask you a serious question: Have you ever towed 7500# with a vehicle rated for 7900#? I have and not only did it consume a half of tank of gas to get across town the trailer was driving the truck not the other way around. The brakes were hot and whole truck smelled hot and overworked once I got to where I was going. I look at the rating I think the rating is the once in a while rating and surely not everyday rating. Let me also ask you why every lawn and lanscape truck I see is a 2500 or even a 3500. Do you mean to tell me the owners of these companies purchased these large trucks becuase thier egos told them to buy a whole fleet of them? No. In fact hell no. They buy them because the suspensions on any 1500 are completed swallowed up by anything over 5000#. You ever put a yard of stone in the back of that 1500? I have and I can tell you I was worried the whole works was going to give way. That truck was squatting so low I thought the bumper was going to drag. The wieght could not have been more than 1200# in the box but you would have thought it had 2000# of stone in there.

You 1500# guys go rent a skid steer and haul that 7500# rig home and then go smell your brakes and come back here. I'm telling you these 1500's are meant for ride quality and the occassional trailer hauler, nothing more.

For UMP what do you haul with since you are in the biz?

DooSPX
05-10-2007, 12:10 PM
BTW guys, 4X4's always tow a little less then 2WD
my 2WD GMC 5.3 with the locking 3.73's and the tow pkg. and I love it. I cant even feel the PS190 behind it. and rarely has to downshift to climb anything.
also, I am a hardcore Drag Racer, and have been for many years. I raced my 6000# ECSB 2WD 5.3 loaded with the bose, onstar, multi pwr seats., etc. with only 500 miles on it in 90*-85% humidity and a 1500 DA and pulled a 15.500 @ 86.68mph on a crappy 2.59 60' spinnin the crappy stock Generals

JEREMY79
05-10-2007, 12:28 PM
UMP
For UMP what do you haul with since you are in the biz?

I am also in the "biz" and my last truck was a 1995 1500 4x4 and I would haul anything that was put behind it. You just cant drive like a freakin idiot. You have to slow down and not depend on your brakes so much.

Maristar210
05-10-2007, 12:37 PM
I am also in the "biz" and my last truck was a 1995 1500 4x4 and I would haul anything that was put behind it. You just cant drive like a freakin idiot. You have to slow down and not depend on your brakes so much.


Trust me I was too scared to drive it like an idiot. Never got higher than 35 mph for sure. Come toa stoplight on a hill and OOOOOO baby..

To each his own, you guys just happen to be wrong and Ric and I are, as usual, correct :D 8p

milkmania
05-10-2007, 12:41 PM
I am also in the "biz" and my last truck was a 1995 1500 4x4 and I would haul anything that was put behind it. You just cant drive like a freakin idiot. You have to slow down and not depend on your brakes so much.

my 1995 K1500 suburban (Z71) couldn't pull itself off of a wet banana peel

Rockman
05-10-2007, 12:50 PM
my 1995 K1500 suburban (Z71) couldn't pull itself off of a wet banana peel

Now that is funny...:banana: :uglyhamme

milkmania
05-10-2007, 12:59 PM
Now that is funny...:banana: :uglyhamme
unless you own the truck:mad:

Storm861triple
05-10-2007, 01:14 PM
UMP

Let me ask you a serious question: Have you ever towed 7500# with a vehicle rated for 7900#?
No, but I've towed over 14,000 lbs w/my 1500. You read that right...over 14,000 lbs, 10 miles and up the east side of Parley's Canyon (8%+ grade).

Let me also ask you why every lawn and lanscape truck I see is a 2500 or even a 3500. Do you mean to tell me the owners of these companies purchased these large trucks becuase thier egos told them to buy a whole fleet of them? No. In fact hell no. They buy them because...
Because they are using them for WORK, and they are towing/hauling EVERY day. That's not even remotely close to the situation that the OP posted about, or that UMP is talking about.

You ever put a yard of stone in the back of that 1500?
Nope, but I've hauled a yard of damp top soil in the back of mine. Heavier than stone. It was at it's max, but I wasn't scared that "the whole works was going to give way"...what ever that means.

You 1500# guys go rent a skid steer and haul that 7500# rig home and then go smell your brakes and come back here.
I've hauled a skidsteer w/my 1500. A New Holland LS160, w/a bucket and forks attachments. Brakes weren't hot nor did they smell. I applied intelligence and common sense to drive appropriately for the load. No Problem. As a matter of fact, I'd rather do all of the above, w/my '96 1500, than w/a 1985 1 ton.

In the end though, none of your heavy-duty, work based examples apply to the OP's question and usage. For the kind of WORK that you're citing, one should have a 3/4 or 1 ton truck.

Storm861triple
05-10-2007, 01:20 PM
also, I am a hardcore Drag Racer, and have been for many years. I raced my 6000# ECSB 2WD 5.3 loaded with the bose, onstar, multi pwr seats., etc. with only 500 miles on it in 90*-85% humidity and a 1500 DA and pulled a 15.500 @ 86.68mph on a crappy 2.59 60' spinnin the crappy stock Generals
Cool! I took my truck to the local track twice; both for S&G's and also to prove something to friends (that it could beat an '06 Titan). Unfortunately for me, our track is at 4500' elevation, so I'm "missing" 13% of my torque and hp...assuming PERFECT weather and temps...which I never see.

W/my 4x4, xcsb, 5.7L, 5 speed grocery getter, I ran 16.3 at 85, which I was pretty happy about. This was on a clutch smoking (dropped it from 5k in 4wd) 2.5 60' so I could crack into the 15's w/better driving. What's funny is that would beat my first car, an '83 Trans Am...w/the TA having the benefit of being at sea level! Off topic, but LOL!

pram
05-10-2007, 01:23 PM
close this thread please. Ric has aleady spoken!

Spoke like a true WOMAN:confused: :confused: :D :D

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-10-2007, 01:26 PM
I am also in the "biz" and my last truck was a 1995 1500 4x4 and I would haul anything that was put behind it. You just cant drive like a freakin idiot. You have to slow down and not depend on your brakes so much.
Listen to Jeremy, he knows what he is talking about.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-10-2007, 01:32 PM
Trust me I was too scared to drive it like an idiot. Never got higher than 35 mph for sure. Come toa stoplight on a hill and OOOOOO baby..

To each his own, you guys just happen to be wrong and Ric and I are, as usual, correct
Steve, the issue you mentioned is, everyday towing. you put that in your post. see, for EVERY day towing, then a 2500 is perfect! absolutely fine. I am talking about hte guys that buy a 2500 to tow a camper or boat a few weekends a year. just not needed. in your application with work, sure a 2500 is fine. didnt you read when I posted before that when you get into the 6000 to 7000 range, you need a 2500. I posted that yesterday I think.

I think you and Ric should public office, you have endless excuses for when your in the wrong8p :D ;)

Maristar210
05-10-2007, 01:58 PM
Steve, the issue you mentioned is, everyday towing. you put that in your post. see, for EVERY day towing, then a 2500 is perfect! absolutely fine. I am talking about hte guys that buy a 2500 to tow a camper or boat a few weekends a year. just not needed. in your application with work, sure a 2500 is fine. didnt you read when I posted before that when you get into the 6000 to 7000 range, you need a 2500. I posted that yesterday I think.

I think you and Ric should public office, you have endless excuses for when your in the wrong8p ;)


Understood but he states in his first post HE IS TOWING EVERY DAY.

Storm- I don't recall asking you a thing. I was speaking to my buddy UMP. Especially since I addressed it to him, now go 8p 8p

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-10-2007, 03:20 PM
Understood but he states in his first post HE IS TOWING EVERY DAY.

Storm- I don't recall asking you a thing. I was speaking to my buddy UMP. Especially since I addressed it to him, now go
Staristar, be backin' off my brutha Storm! he and Jeremy are on my team! We will be kickin' your guys arses after school today8p :D ;)

wgwollet
05-10-2007, 03:32 PM
OK thrall: i understand what you are saying.......you can and will do your maintenance, I do some like brakes, oil, etc.....

Ric
05-10-2007, 04:50 PM
I guess I'm in the minority. Here's what I said, two years ago about a '04 5.3 xcab s-bed 4x4 auto 3.73...



I also agree w/UMP about the Z71; Shocks, decals, and worthless aluminum "skid" plates. Biggest waste of money ever. yep you must have been in the minority OR, GM only did that in 05 & 06, I am not the historian that ump or wft are, but that 5.3/3.42 combo is not spoken highly of to say the least

Ric
05-10-2007, 04:59 PM
What features did you like about the "Z71" so much Ric? the Z71 WAS the shocks, the skids, and decals. what else is it? Most years, thats what it was comprised of.

Keyword being almost. The Z71 OFF ROAD pkg was always a "suspension" package that included skid plates. There was years that it did not include a locking differential, now how much sense does that make? the Z71 was usually ordered with the Z82 towing pkg, just cause it made sense. Most people who wanted the Z71 also wanted the Z82. The Z85 suspension, you can still tow with it just fine. the Z71 is only on the 4x4 in the silverado. The colorado offered Z71 suspension on the 2WD as well.

I will call up Chevrolet and give them your name and email. they can get rid of all their engineers in the silverado division and just hire you. its more cost effective that way.

BTW, I took my goggles off so you cant knock them off8p :D

I liked the ride and the fact that (you are a detail guy ump so this generalization may eat you up) you could walk up to the dealer in the 90's, tell him you wanted a z71 truck and it almost always meant cush seats, but not leather. all the crap like cdplayer and power tilt & cruise as well as a 350 auto transmission, tow package, locker and 3.73 gearing in addition to the nicer wheels and skid plate scheme..

I have heard for years from folks that the z71 was only skid plates and shocks. I am sure that the techies will say that is the package order code, but luckily marketing understood who was buying that truck and built a system that offered the truck I described above in almost every z71 pickup on the lot.

You see what I'm sayin?

Ric
05-10-2007, 05:01 PM
1500HD

That sir, is your answer.

milkmania
05-10-2007, 05:09 PM
1500HD

That sir, is your answer.


here's your sign

Ric
05-10-2007, 05:50 PM
Hahahahahahah

rstitson
05-10-2007, 07:35 PM
I am currently towing an x-15 with a 4X4 off road 1500 GMC 1997. It is fine, has a small block. Could use a bit more power but not enough to buy a 3/4 ton. I used to be a mason for 20 years 3/4 ton and 1 1/2 ton trucks. Will not buy another one, but I may buy a tundra with a 5.7 and 10,000 lbs towing capacity... Absolutely no need for a 3/4 or deisel, unless you just want it, and can pay out right.

onewheat
05-10-2007, 08:01 PM
1500HD

That sir, is your answer.


Correct me if I am wrong, but the 1500HD is the same as the 2500HD in every way EXCEPT for lighter springs, correct? It has the 6.0 (std), massive brakes, 8 lug, forged wheels, E load rated tires, etc.

I love my 1500HD with the 3.73 gear. A 4.10 might be more desireable if I was towing more often (it was available), but like many other people, it is my daily driver and I am only towing weekends in the summer. My trip is 4 hours, but, for me, a diesel would be overkill and a 2500 would give me a stiffer ride for my 90% non-towing. Another note, diesel may be slightly cheaper at the moment, but how long has it been at least $0.30 a gallon more expensive than gas?

dmayer84
05-10-2007, 08:06 PM
Around here diesel tends to be $0.30 more a gallon most of the time. I know that it was last time that I was at that station around a week ago.

Workin' 4 Toys
05-10-2007, 09:12 PM
i.e. USE ranches, farms, ect. If you dont need it, dont buy it. Sorry guys, I will fight this one to the death
the average guy towing an X star or a camper trailer on weekends just do not NEED a 3/4 ton truck, its that simple.
Jeremy, Ain't you got a car in the back yard you don't "need":rolleyes: ,
hey UMP, how about that convertible, do you "need":rolleyes: it?
Sorry, but we all have "needs" some just prefer the smell and sound of a diesel, especially a late 90s Cummins or p'stroke when its about 10 degrees and ain't been plugged in for a few days...:D

JEREMY79
05-10-2007, 09:18 PM
Jeremy, Ain't you got a car in the back yard you don't "need":rolleyes:

Yup, acutually two. I bought another:rolleyes: GTO this time. Only difference is mine are acutually going up in value

Storm861triple
05-10-2007, 09:35 PM
Storm- I don't recall asking you a thing. I was speaking to my buddy UMP. Especially since I addressed it to him, now go 8p 8p
Sorry Bro...

You said You 1500# guys I'm one of them, so I responded. With some pretty astounding data, I might add. :)

-Tom

Ric
05-10-2007, 09:55 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but the 1500HD is the same as the 2500HD in every way EXCEPT for lighter springs, correct? It has the 6.0 (std), massive brakes, 8 lug, forged wheels, E load rated tires, etc.

I love my 1500HD with the 3.73 gear. A 4.10 might be more desireable if I was towing more often (it was available), but like many other people, it is my daily driver and I am only towing weekends in the summer. My trip is 4 hours, but, for me, a diesel would be overkill and a 2500 would give me a stiffer ride for my 90% non-towing. Another note, diesel may be slightly cheaper at the moment, but how long has it been at least $0.30 a gallon more expensive than gas? You may be right. what I do know is that the 1500hd is the same gvwr as the old 2500 NOT the 2500HD, maybe that is due to lighter springs, I don't know. yooper might be able to get us some specs between a true 1500, a 1500HD and a 2500 and a 2500HD.

you are correct, the 1500HD comes standard with the 6.0 (and may be the ONLY engine available in the 1500HD, I dont know)

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-10-2007, 10:11 PM
Yup, acutually two. I bought another GTO this time. Only difference is mine are acutually going up in value
OOooooo!! Cha-ching!! hear that boys? Jeremy scores, AGAIN!!! :D :toast: Rock on my friend!

Good score Jeremy. I bet Ric and Steve are on the phone now trying to plot a new strategy....8p ;)

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-10-2007, 10:48 PM
yooper might be able to get us some specs between a true 1500, a 1500HD and a 2500 and a 2500HD.
Oh sure, UMP can get us some specs so we can ignore them and reject GM's reality and substitute our own like we do with all the facts on this thread.8p ;)

Just to show you I am a good sport, here you go:

1500 is a 7700 GVWR

1500HD and the 2500 are the same truck. 8600 GVWR

2500 HD is a 9200 GVWR

I will double check these tomarrow at work, but I think they are correct.

dmayer84
05-10-2007, 11:53 PM
I got the new 1500 with the 4.8L and 4.10 rear end, can tow up to 7400 lbs. I have used nicer towing trucks, but it gets the job done, compared to using my Dad's 4runner with the V6. I would have loved to go with a diesel, always loved borrowing my friends but I just couldnt justify it.

Workin' 4 Toys
05-11-2007, 08:16 AM
Yup, acutually two. I bought another:rolleyes: GTO this time. Only difference is mine are acutually going up in value
That is awesome.:D Although, I find that is about as much of a "need" as a diesel truck owner that never tows.....8p

Workin' 4 Toys
05-11-2007, 08:17 AM
Around here diesel tends to be $0.30 more a gallon most of the time. I know that it was last time that I was at that station around a week ago.
It's FINALLY less here. Hasn't been less in more than a year. And it seems to be about $0.30 less right now.

JEREMY79
05-11-2007, 09:33 AM
That is awesome.:D Although, I find that is about as much of a "need" as a diesel truck owner that never tows.....8p

that depends. I needed to save it from the people that were neglecting it

Workin' 4 Toys
05-11-2007, 09:43 AM
that depends. I needed to save it from the people that were neglecting it
Good one.;) ...Does that mean you are giving it the full restoration???8p Any chance you got it from TT member Wakepowell, it appears he has one that is always being neglected...Yes, sitting in the garage, on a lift, under a silk cover is neglecting sometimes:rolleyes:

JEREMY79
05-11-2007, 09:55 AM
he has a gto? Yes, the body is on a rotiserie (sp?) right now and the frame is being sandblasted.

Workin' 4 Toys
05-11-2007, 10:00 AM
he has a gto? Yes, the body is on a rotiserie (sp?) right now and the frame is being sandblasted.
OMG....Two of them:love: . One is a Judge, and the other a Ram Air IV....He doesn't know it, but we are best friends...:D

JEREMY79
05-11-2007, 10:04 AM
I went back and saw the pics. Nice cars:rolleyes:

Ric
05-11-2007, 10:33 AM
Oh sure, UMP can get us some specs so we can ignore them and reject GM's reality and substitute our own like we do with all the facts on this thread.8p ;)

Just to show you I am a good sport, here you go:

1500 is a 7700 GVWR

1500HD and the 2500 are the same truck. 8600 GVWR

2500 HD is a 9200 GVWR

I will double check these tomarrow at work, but I think they are correct. you posted this from home? from memory? don't talk to me about facts pal.
When you are done twisting back odometers down there at the dealership, let us know if I'm right about the gvwr of 1500HD compared to 2500.

There is one fact on this thread....... The thread starter needs a 1500HD

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-11-2007, 11:32 AM
you posted this from home? from memory? don't talk to me about facts pal.
When you are done twisting back odometers down there at the dealership, let us know if I'm right about the gvwr of 1500HD compared to 2500.

There is one fact on this thread....... The thread starter needs a 1500HD
Im not your pal, bud.

If my sources arent to your standards, call up the CEO of GM and get the technical specs you need from him.

Ric
05-11-2007, 11:40 AM
Im not your pal, bud.

If my sources arent to your standards, call up the CEO of GM and get the technical specs you need from him. He have a propeller on his hat too?

Workin' 4 Toys
05-11-2007, 11:51 AM
He have a propeller on his hat too?
Do you get the same impression I do of hUMP?:confused: ... I don't think he likes his job AT ALL....

Datdude
05-11-2007, 12:55 PM
I have to disagree on that one. I work at a GM dealer, and I see the market first hand. that is not always the case with diesels. the used diesel market can be quite up and down at times.


Not doubting your experience, but I have seen the market first hand as well when I got rid of my last two diesel trucks. Both of those trucks returned the original diesel upgrade money, as well as provided fuel savings.

When I got my first diesel truck gas was $0.40 more per gallon. Then diesel became more than gas, and now it is back to $0.25 cheaper per gallon. Hopefully this trend continues:D .

The argument about maintenance being more expensive is not always true. My current 2006 Chevy 2500HD crew/short 4x4 Duramax LBZ was $59.00 for an oil change on an 8000 mile interval. My last gas truck (1998 Chev 1500 x-cab 4x4) was $25.00 at 3000 miles......not a whole lot of difference. My last service was $200 for oil change, transmission filter, fuel filter and tire rotation, which does not seem out of line for a 20K mile service

The complaint about noisy diesels must come from people that have not heard a new Duramax. My last three trucks have been 2000 Ford 7.3L powerstroke, 2005 Dodge Cummins 5.9L and a 2006 Chevy Duramax LBZ. The Ford sounded like a school bus, the Dodge was better and the Chevy is AMAZING. There is almost no way to tell it is a diesel when you are driving it, with the exception of a little turbo noise. As far as smell goes...you get used to it. And realistically, how often are you outside the truck when it is running anyways? You do not smell it inside the truck.

For me personally, I am on my third diesel truck and have a hard time seeing myself owning a gas truck again. Maybe I am just weird?

Ric
05-11-2007, 01:13 PM
. .

Ric
05-11-2007, 01:18 PM
Do you get the same impression I do of hUMP?:confused: ... I don't think he likes his job AT ALL.... lump really only likes his dawg now that I think of it, he may not like his job, himself, his life, but then again, he really seems to like this board.. .

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-11-2007, 01:32 PM
ALright,

WFT, I am gonna go off on a soap box talk a bit here. keep in mind, my job entailed much more than selling cars, that was only part of it, and I no longer sell anymore, I have moved on from that. Yes, you are correct, I wasnt wild about selling cars, and that is why I took the opportunity for a promotion when it was offered. 12 yrs of selling cars makes you numb on them. To me, cars & trucks are just "widgets" a generic product we make a profit on. I see them as a form of transportation that depreciates like mad, and breaks down and costs money. The reason I drive a ten year old truck is because I am WAY cheap, and I see buying new vehicles as a waste of money, and I choose to spend my money on other things I enjoy, ski boat, guitars, amps, etc.... After being in the car biz for 12 years I have seen many BAD ways to buy cars by watching customers. driving them and maintaining them is the best value when you calculate what your cost per mile of driving is. I havent made a car payment in so long, that I forgot what it feels like to have one, and I love it! I like my old buick because its fun, but other than that, vehicles dont really excite me much, probably due to overexposure from being around them everyday for 12 years.

Datdude, I hear Duramaxes everyday, and they are still loud. They better than some diesels, but still loud. Diesels are just loud and smelly. its just the nature of the beast.

I am like Jeremy, I will never be convinced that diesels make sense for the average driver. NEVER. :noface: Those trucks are intended for heavy use, where lots of power is needed. Most people that have them that I see, just purely do not have a valid reason to drive them. Gas engine 1500's would be very well serving for them. People just overbuy.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-11-2007, 01:35 PM
lump really only likes his dawg now that I think of it, he may not like his job, himself, his life, but then again, he really seems to like this board.. .Thats because dogs RULE! and....
you forgot smokey and the bandit, mastercraft boats, slalom skiing, non-defective monzas, black russians on that list. :D get with it Ric, your slipping. Did you see whats in my garage last night??

Ric
05-11-2007, 01:51 PM
Thats because dogs RULE! and....
you forgot smokey and the bandit, mastercraft boats, slalom skiing, non-defective monzas, black russians on that list. :D get with it Ric, your slipping. Did you see whats in my garage last night?? that's just gay

Ric
05-11-2007, 01:54 PM
overbuying is kinda fun

ALright,

WFT, I am gonna go off on a soap box talk a bit here. keep in mind, my job entailed much more than selling cars, that was only part of it, and I no longer sell anymore, I have moved on from that. Yes, you are correct, I wasnt wild about selling cars, and that is why I took the opportunity for a promotion when it was offered. 12 yrs of selling cars makes you numb on them. To me, cars & trucks are just "widgets" a generic product we make a profit on. I see them as a form of transportation that depreciates like mad, and breaks down and costs money. The reason I drive a ten year old truck is because I am WAY cheap, and I see buying new vehicles as a waste of money, and I choose to spend my money on other things I enjoy, ski boat, guitars, amps, etc.... After being in the car biz for 12 years I have seen many BAD ways to buy cars by watching customers. driving them and maintaining them is the best value when you calculate what your cost per mile of driving is. I havent made a car payment in so long, that I forgot what it feels like to have one, and I love it! I like my old buick because its fun, but other than that, vehicles dont really excite me much, probably due to overexposure from being around them everyday for 12 years.

Datdude, I hear Duramaxes everyday, and they are still loud. They better than some diesels, but still loud. Diesels are just loud and smelly. its just the nature of the beast.

I am like Jeremy, I will never be convinced that diesels make sense for the average driver. NEVER. :noface: Those trucks are intended for heavy use, where lots of power is needed. Most people that have them that I see, just purely do not have a valid reason to drive them. Gas engine 1500's would be very well serving for them. People just overbuy.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-11-2007, 02:05 PM
that's just gay
Your the wierdo with the garage fetish. :rolleyes:

Ric
05-11-2007, 02:52 PM
Your the wierdo with the garage fetish. :rolleyes: I like garages mr Pennypincher

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-11-2007, 03:15 PM
I like garages mr Pennypincher
I am proud to be cheap. its a sport to me.

TX.X-30 fan
05-11-2007, 03:18 PM
The Official Ric & Ump's Truck Talk And Various Other Threadjacks. :D

Workin' 4 Toys
05-11-2007, 03:34 PM
Whoops...................

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-11-2007, 04:03 PM
The Official Ric & Ump's Truck Talk And Various Other Threadjacks. :DHA HA!!!!! I love it! OFFICIAL!!! You rock X30!

BTW, I just talked to a fellow Team Talk member on the phone 5 minutes ago. He called asking about Avalanches for a tow vehicle. He said he tows his prostar on the weekend 20 miles round trip, and about a 600 mile round trip once a year. I told him not to mess around with anything like a 1500 or avalanche, and get a 2500 HD crew cab diesel. I mean why fool around with a half ton, right?

Ric
05-11-2007, 04:28 PM
The Official Ric & Ump's Truck Talk And Various Other Threadjacks. :D . 1500HD

Ric
05-11-2007, 04:29 PM
HA HA!!!!! I love it! OFFICIAL!!! You rock X30!

BTW, I just talked to a fellow Team Talk member on the phone 5 minutes ago. He called asking about Avalanches for a tow vehicle. He said he tows his prostar on the weekend 20 miles round trip, and about a 600 mile round trip once a year. I told him not to mess around with anything like a 1500 or avalanche, and get a 2500 HD crew cab diesel. I mean why fool around with a half ton, right? what axle ratio/ motor combinations are available in the av anyway?

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-11-2007, 04:32 PM
what axle ratio/ motor combinations are available in the av anyway?
It dont matter cause all 1500's & avalanches suck at towing and nobody should tow their lawnmower trailer with anything lighter than a 2500HD crew cab duramax.:uglyhamme

Ric
05-11-2007, 04:46 PM
Depends On The Size Of The Lawnmower

Footin
05-11-2007, 04:56 PM
what axle ratio/ motor combinations are available in the av anyway?

3.73 and 4.10.

I wish it were a 3.42, I understand those were the best.

Datdude
05-11-2007, 05:08 PM
The bottom line here is that real trucks don't have spark plugs.....:cool:

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-11-2007, 05:08 PM
3.73 and 4.10.

I wish it were a 3.42, I understand those were the best. They use the 3.42 in the silverados cause they are SO practical and get good mileage and tow just fine, therefore they dont have any left over for the Avs.:(

Footin
05-11-2007, 05:14 PM
I had a Camaro with 2.73's and got my best gas mileage at 75. Maybe I should put those in an Avalanche??????

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-11-2007, 05:20 PM
I had a Camaro with 2.73's and got my best gas mileage at 75. Maybe I should put those in an Avalanche??????
I bet that bad boy could tow a freight train too!

Rockman
05-11-2007, 05:31 PM
I had a Camaro with 2.73's and got my best gas mileage at 75. Maybe I should put those in an Avalanche??????

:uglyhamme :uglyhamme :uglyhamme

ProTour X9
05-11-2007, 06:13 PM
The bottom line here is that real trucks don't have spark plugs.....:cool:

from the truck vs suv thread
I just want to say one thing: Real trucks don't have spark plugs.

GO DIESEL! (engines8p )

Ric
05-11-2007, 06:20 PM
3.73 and 4.10.

I wish it were a 3.42, I understand those were the best. Footin know's that brevity is the soul of wit

TX.X-30 fan
05-11-2007, 06:35 PM
It dont matter cause all 1500's & avalanches suck at towing and nobody should tow their lawnmower trailer with anything lighter than a 2500HD crew cab duramax.:uglyhamme



I'm feeling faint. :D :D

Ric
05-11-2007, 06:37 PM
They use the 3.42 in the silverados cause they are SO practical and get good mileage and tow just fine, therefore they dont have any left over for the Avs.:( Makes good economic sense.. It's all supply and demand ya know?

Maristar210
05-11-2007, 07:01 PM
2 points

Fist (for you porno fans) in stead of Fast

I saw a guy with a 2500 HD Duramax Hauling a triple axle gooseneck and a full size bulldozer. I thought dayuuum you go 2500.

The 2nd is can we all agree, especially UMP that I am the ruler and guys like loud mouth storm87651233331118882229333triple need to go suck the salt out of Salt Lake?

J \/ K Storm :D

Ric
05-11-2007, 07:13 PM
2 points

Fist (for you porno fans) in stead of Fast

I saw a guy with a 2500 HD Duramax Hauling a triple axle gooseneck and a full size bulldozer. I thought dayuuum you go 2500.

The 2nd is can we all agree, especially UMP that I am the ruler and guys like loud mouth storm87651233331118882229333triple need to go suck the salt out of Salt Lake?

J \/ K Storm :D Dat reminds me of a guy in dallas a few years back with a f'd superduty 2500 towing a big flatbed with a dozer... sure it would pull it, but that trailer started shinnying at about 60 on him and it was bouncing the back axle of that truck in the air side to side at highway speeds. he nearly lost it, trying to settle it down.. IT WAS WILD to watch. braking made it worse! he might have gotten away with it too if he hadn't located the CG rearward in order to go easy on the 250 chassis.. whew!

Maristar210
05-11-2007, 07:42 PM
Dat reminds me of a guy in dallas a few years back with a f'd superduty 2500 towing a big flatbed with a dozer... sure it would pull it, but that trailer started shinnying at about 60 on him and it was bouncing the back axle of that truck in the air side to side at highway speeds. he nearly lost it, trying to settle it down.. IT WAS WILD to watch. braking made it worse! he might have gotten away with it too if he hadn't located the CG rearward in order to go easy on the 250 chassis.. whew!

But RIC a 1500 will haul 9800# all day?

They forgot to say as long as you do not surpass 45 MPH

I like to tow and I want a vehicle that will not shake and bake at that speed.


Stormtriple - I am not speaking to you please do not respond to my post as it is not intended for anyone who is a nut job in the state of Utah :D :D

Datdude
05-11-2007, 09:29 PM
Do I NEED a diesel truck to pull my trailers? No......a 1500 gasser would probably do just fine..................:confused:

Do I NEED a world record capable tow boat to pull me around the lake on a waterski? No......a 19' Bayliner would do just fine..........:confused:


Similar or different? I would say similar.

If you had to choose a tool(truck, boat, anything) that did an adequate job or one that did an excellent job....which would you choose?

6ballsisall
05-11-2007, 09:34 PM
Storm- I don't recall asking you a thing. I was speaking to my buddy UMP. Especially since I addressed it to him, now go


LOL!!!!!!

Hey Storm I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn this week but I hope to be just like you some day.......:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

milkmania
05-11-2007, 09:40 PM
http://milkmania.info/Thread-Rocks.jpg

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-11-2007, 10:19 PM
You retards lay off Storm! Its not his fault that you sultans of the shortbus cant argue like adults. you have to resort to adolescent BS when your are beat. NOW, none of you nerds are welcome at the cool kids lunch table! go sit with the computer geeks. :cool:

JEREMY79
05-12-2007, 10:42 AM
so the general idea here is that- Yes you can pull your boat with a Ford Ranger. Is is practical? No. You can pull your boat with a 3500 ton Duramax too. Is it practical? No. The boat owner has to make the decision based upon his/her use and finances.

Workin' 4 Toys
05-14-2007, 07:21 PM
It dont matter cause all 1500's & avalanches suck at towing and nobody should tow their lawnmower trailer with anything lighter than a 2500HD crew cab duramax.:uglyhamme
You have outdone yourself yet again...You CERTAINLY need a new job....I hear the moped dealer is looking....

DooSPX
05-14-2007, 07:27 PM
my 1500 is rated at 8000 lbs FWIW

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-14-2007, 08:35 PM
You have outdone yourself yet again...You CERTAINLY need a new job....I hear the moped dealer is looking....
Toys, I told you I HAVE a new job. not selling anymore, same place, new job. Dont tempt me on mopeds! THose things are lady magnets!:D

SNOOTYSKIER
05-15-2007, 10:27 AM
personally, I wouldnt tow my boat with anything other than a 3/4 ton, UMP. Ric and Steve are right. accept it.

Ric
05-15-2007, 11:14 AM
personally, I wouldnt tow my boat with anything other than a 3/4 ton, UMP. Ric and Steve are right. accept it. somebody give the yooper something to do please!

Maristar210
05-15-2007, 11:19 AM
UMP / Snooty

You never answered my question. With your vast knowledge of tow vehicles what is the vehicle you have chosen to tow with?

If you fail to answer I'll figure you drive a '93 Escort and use a friends 2500 to haul your boat to the mostly frozen water :D :D

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-15-2007, 12:10 PM
Staristar, please dont associate me with mr. Snotty. I already told you what I think about trucks. BTW, what kind of gas mileage does that escort get??:confused: I may be interested.

Ric, go sit in the corner.

Maristar210
05-15-2007, 12:12 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-15-2007, 12:26 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
well dont just sit there eating popcorn buddy, whats the scoop on that escort?

Maristar210
05-15-2007, 12:28 PM
Comes with a stench of Mary jew wanna and a back seat full of Colt 45 40 ouncers, all empty of course beut hell it gets 24 mpg.

Hope you don't mind pink. ;)

Ric
05-15-2007, 12:28 PM
Ric, go sit in the corner. ump, snooty, did you say you are moderator 4 or moderator 3? I can't remember.

Maristar210
05-15-2007, 12:33 PM
ump, snooty, did you say you are moderator 4 or moderator 3? I can't remember.


He ain't three I can assure of that. Three is a total &%$

whole wheat please

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-15-2007, 12:34 PM
ump, snooty, did you say you are moderator 4 or moderator 3? I can't remember.
try again Racheal. your off on all counts. this is like that one game on the price is right, NONE of your prices are on the correct products.

Maristar210
05-15-2007, 12:36 PM
try again Racheal. your off on all counts. this is like that one game on the price is right, NONE of your prices are on the correct products.


Adam Sandler:

The price is, WRONG.

TX.X-30 fan
05-15-2007, 03:26 PM
I must have clicked on the wrong thread. I thought this was trucks, not the neverending threadjack.:( Sorry about that. 8p 8p

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-15-2007, 03:48 PM
I must have clicked on the wrong thread. I thought this was trucks, not the neverending threadjack.:( Sorry about that. 8p 8p
well you silly savage!;)

TX.X-30 fan
05-15-2007, 03:52 PM
Thanks UMP that means something coming from my esteemed TT colleague. ;) :D

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-15-2007, 04:17 PM
Thanks UMP that means something coming from my esteemed TT colleague. ;) :D
HA!!! the only thing esteemed about me is my award I won in grade school for reading. :cool:

Workin' 4 Toys
05-16-2007, 08:23 AM
Toys, I told you I HAVE a new job. not selling anymore, same place, new job. Dont tempt me on mopeds! THose things are lady magnets!:D
I mean something that has nothing to do with automobiles.....Perhaps there is a demand for whole house heated lamp installers in the UP? Speaking of which, how did yours work this winter?

Workin' 4 Toys
05-16-2007, 08:30 AM
I must have clicked on the wrong thread. I thought this was trucks, not the neverending threadjack.:( Sorry about that. 8p 8p
I think it has been said, 3/4 ton pickup truck, Diesel powered, will have no trouble towing a 190 or 197, and will do equally as well without a trailer. The gas jobs on the other hand, it seems there is a debate whether or not it can handle frequent towing. That explanation in itself speaks volumes. There doesn't seem to be any doubt the diesel will be pull the trailer/boat mentioned at the beginning of the thread.
With that said, the choice is clear, Diesel, 4X4, crew cab. pick up, Short bed..:D

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-16-2007, 08:31 AM
I mean something that has nothing to do with automobiles.....Perhaps there is a demand for whole house heated lamp installers in the UP? Speaking of which, how did yours work this winter?
HA HA!! your on your game! Lamp not installed yet. redid the floor in there though. then warmer weather set in, so my focus changed to spring type projects. lawn, throwing away junk, getting lawnmowers ready, prepping for some touch up paint on the house, some concrete patching, etc... that stuff put the fan/heater lamp on the backburner until fall. :o I'll get to it mon!!:) I have motivation now, the dog likes to sleep in the bathroom on the bath mat during the day, so I will have to make sure she is warm in the winter. :)

Workin' 4 Toys
05-16-2007, 08:44 AM
HA HA!! your on your game! Lamp not installed yet. redid the floor in there though. then warmer weather set in, so my focus changed to spring type projects. lawn, throwing away junk, getting lawnmowers ready, prepping for some touch up paint on the house, some concrete patching, etc... that stuff put the fan/heater lamp on the backburner until fall. :o I'll get to it mon!!:) I have motivation now, the dog likes to sleep in the bathroom on the bath mat during the day, so I will have to make sure she is warm in the winter. :)
On that note...
Your "Location" inspired me....8p

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-16-2007, 09:06 AM
On that note...
Your "Location" inspired me....8p
I like your new locale as well!:D

Maristar210
05-16-2007, 09:50 AM
You guys diggin my new Escort?

Datdude
05-16-2007, 10:47 AM
With that said, the choice is clear, Diesel, 4X4, crew cab. pick up, Short bed..:D

yes it is:cool:

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-16-2007, 10:57 AM
You guys diggin my new Escort?
I totally love it, its bichin!!! can you say, chick-getter...?

Doug G
05-16-2007, 01:06 PM
Does your 3/4 ton crewcab diesel have a jake brake and chrome stacks or just the new ebay 18 wheeler?

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-16-2007, 01:29 PM
Does your 3/4 ton crewcab diesel have a jake brake and chrome stacks or just the new ebay 18 wheeler?
oh hell no! I reserve that for the 18 wheeler. thats so my neighbors can appreciate it too! 3/4 ton just has smelly exhaust. that way I am more stealth in case I want to steal a rose bush or something. , they can only smell me, not hear me. :D

X2M
07-30-2007, 12:18 PM
I have a towing question guys. Hope this is the right thread...

Thinking about getting a new (to us) tow vehicle. We currently have a 2001 GMC YukonXL, 5.3L with a 3.73 rear end. Looking at a 2005 Chevrolet Z71 Suburban, 5.3L with a 4.10 rear end.

Now, my question is what will be the difference in towing capacity for us. Will there be a better tow in the mountains and hills? What about the highways?

BrianM
07-30-2007, 12:23 PM
Should tow better all around. That 4.10 is going to give you a little more grunt which should translate to easier towing in the mountains and hills. Just driving it around on the street it will feel quicker off of the line. I think GM gives an extra 500-800 lb towing capacity with the 4.10.

Jkelly
07-30-2007, 12:24 PM
better towing in the mountain and hill probably want notice a difference on flat highway, worst fuel economy.

The YukonXL is the GMC Version of the Suburban right?

bigmac
07-30-2007, 12:26 PM
Never thought I'd see a post in this thread that wasn't dripping with testosterone.

X2M
07-30-2007, 12:32 PM
Never thought I'd see a post in this thread that wasn't dripping with testosterone.

Sorry to disappoint you Bigmac.;)

Jkelly - Yes, the YukonXL is the GMC version of the Suburban.

BrianM - Thanks for the info. From what we have read the extra tow lb. capacity is more like 1500 extra pounds for the 4.10 in that model.

Jkelly
07-30-2007, 12:36 PM
So the vehicles weight about the same.
Like Brian said you will notice a all around better towing,because of the torque offered by the lower gears

BrianM
07-30-2007, 12:40 PM
Sorry to disappoint you Bigmac.;)

Jkelly - Yes, the YukonXL is the GMC version of the Suburban.

BrianM - Thanks for the info. From what we have read the extra tow lb. capacity is more like 1500 extra pounds for the 4.10 in that model.
Just looked at the 2007 trailering guide. The difference between the two is 1000lbs. That is the new platform though. See page 7 here http://www.chevrolet.com/trailering/Chevy_Trailing_Guide_Catalog.pdf As for the gas mileage everything I have read (I also used to sell GMC) and heard from actual owners is the difference in mileage will be negligable. You probably will notice no difference. Some of the newer GMs with the new 5.3 DOD and 4.10 rear actually get better mileage than the 3.73 combo.

bigmac
07-30-2007, 12:55 PM
Sorry to disappoint you Bigmac.;)

Jkelly - Yes, the YukonXL is the GMC version of the Suburban.

BrianM - Thanks for the info. From what we have read the extra tow lb. capacity is more like 1500 extra pounds for the 4.10 in that model.

Doesn't disappoint me a bit. My truck is a 1/2 ton with 5.3 liter engine and 3.18 rear end. It pulls my boat and my wife's double slant-load horse trailer great (7500 gross weight). She just got back from some trip to Wisconsin - gas mileage just a little below gross was 15.6 mpg towing in 3rd gear.

No doubt Ric could pull me down the highway backwards, but, testosterone and ego aside...who cares as long as the truck pulls what I need it to pull, safely and without damage to the truck?

TX.X-30 fan
07-30-2007, 01:30 PM
Never thought I'd see a post in this thread that wasn't dripping with testosterone.




Since you like GMC this should get the job done. :D :D



25224





How about that for testosterone. ;)

Ric
08-02-2007, 12:52 PM
Doesn't disappoint me a bit. My truck is a 1/2 ton with 5.3 liter engine and 3.18 rear end. It pulls my boat and my wife's double slant-load horse trailer great (7500 gross weight). She just got back from some trip to Wisconsin - gas mileage just a little below gross was 15.6 mpg towing in 3rd gear.

No doubt Ric could pull me down the highway backwards, but, testosterone and ego aside...who cares as long as the truck pulls what I need it to pull, safely and without damage to the truck?


ohh NO doubt bout that!