Why 197 & not 190

[AbunDiga909]

Hey everybody...

I'm not buying a boat or anything, but saw some pro event held by MC on TV a couple days ago. I'm really bad with these events so I don't know the name or anything. If you say it, it'll pop up in my mind though.

Anyway, for the slalom and jump events, I noticed that MC had a very nice blue 197 pulling the pros. Isn't it that the 190 has the smallest wake for the professionsals? Why would MC be using their second best boat to pull the best skiers? And if the 197 is actually better for this sport, why is there a still a 190? Just doesn't seem to make sense to me... :confused:

[TTAdmin]

Abun...
The 197 has the same running surface as the 190. The only difference is the deck has an open bow. As long as your not loading the front down with extra people then you will have the same wake as the 190. And in those tourneys they dont put anyone in the front.

[AbunDiga909]

Than who buys a 190? Seems like you just have the disadvantage of not having a bow. Only reason I could think of to get it is because I still think the closed bow style looks pretty damn hot. :cool:

[SD190EVO]

Lots more storage. Keep people from sitting up there and spoiling your view. Keep women from sitting up there and bouncing around and distracting your driving. Encourage 'bystanders' to wait at the dock for their turn instead hauling around a bunch of people.

[AbunDiga909]

Good reason... well said...

Totally agree with it all, especially with getting the "bystanders" to wait at the dock....
Just a little suprised the 197 could still only hold 6 people with the extra seating.

[Stritt]

My 197 is rated for 11 or 12. wouldn't take that many. Admin, why is the 197 listed on the web specs as only 6? 2003 197 is 11 or 12 or 11??'s #
of weight? Any idea, on why such as drastic change?

[TTAdmin]

I'm pretty sure that the specs that were listed for the 2003 197 were a misprint.

Ratings are calculated by how much weight (people and gear) the boat can hold safely (I think this is correct) and not so much how much "leg room" people have. The advantage of the open bow is the extra people room instead of storage room. The "die hard" skiers want the closed bow but the trend has shifted. MC still produces a closed bow 190 but it is not extremely popular; the 197 is a different story. People are looking for the extra room in the 197 but still want the pro level pull and wake. Plus it's much easier to sell a 197 than a 190 in todays market.

[H20skeefreek]

I'm pretty sure that the specs that were listed for the 2003 197 were a misprint.

Ratings are calculated by how much weight (people and gear) the boat can hold safely (I think this is correct) and not so much how much "leg room" people have. The advantage of the open bow is the extra people room instead of storage room. The "die hard" skiers want the closed bow but the trend has shifted. MC still produces a closed bow 190 but it is not extremely popular; the 197 is a different story. People are looking for the extra room in the 197 but still want the pro level pull and wake. Plus it's much easier to sell a 197 than a 190 in todays market.


That's good, that means when I go to buy my next 190, hopefully the price will be a lot lower than the 197!! Keep makin' those 190's!!

[dsoby]

Maybe not just a misprint on the 03PT, I have an 02 X7 and the sticker says that the max people is 12! I too, was curious at the 6 max seating for the newer 197's. It's the same hull, is it not?

[dsoby]

The sticker also has a weight limit that is twice the limit of the new boats. TTADMIN, is their any chance that you could investigate this and report back. Maybe one of the earlier ones swamped close to max weight and it was changed for liability reasons. This, obviously, would be helpful to know.

[MYMC]

The change was due to a change in NMMA standards, not a change to the boat. This is also why you see "grab handles" throughout the boat...all part of achieving the NMMA certification from year to year.

[bradamerry]

My 87' 190 is rated for 9 people! On the 4th last year we went out and watched the fireworks on Lake Greeson and had 7 adults and 3 small kids(all under 30lbs.) and we had no problems. It didn't seem to be sitting to low in the water either and we did check that before we left. But we were also a few lbs. under the max weight!!

[east tx skier]

So is that four in the back seat, 3 in the observer seat and a driver. That's still not 9. Are they counting the guy dragging behind the boat?

[bradamerry]

So is that four in the back seat, 3 in the observer seat and a driver. That's still not 9. Are they counting the guy dragging behind the boat?


The Motor Box is the best seat in the boat!!! :dance:

[east tx skier]

My father-in-law agrees. However, the cost of replacement skins and the fact that mine fell on its pvc prop-up mechanism (damaging the wood a bit) meant that it's now off limits. Fortunately, there's bow seating.

[milkmania]

Are there laws being broken when you put more people in the boat than the label allows?

I mean, I could put 9 in mine, but the label says 6, I think:confused:

I look at it more for the ticket than anything else. I don't want some police boat trying to catch me:steering:

[Ric]

Hey everybody...

I'm not buying a boat or anything, but saw some pro event held by MC on TV a couple days ago. I'm really bad with these events so I don't know the name or anything. If you say it, it'll pop up in my mind though.

Anyway, for the slalom and jump events, I noticed that MC had a very nice blue 197 pulling the pros. Isn't it that the 190 has the smallest wake for the professionsals? Why would MC be using their second best boat to pull the best skiers? And if the 197 is actually better for this sport, why is there a still a 190? Just doesn't seem to make sense to me... :confused:

M A R K E T I N G

[east tx skier]

m-mania, if you get boarded, and you have more than capacity (or your capacity sticker is covered), you can get a ticket.

[James O'Keefe]

Here in Michigan, I had a Sheriff tell me you can't sit on the motor box while the boat is in motion. Just thought I would pass that along...

[bradamerry]

Here in Michigan, I had a Sheriff tell me you can't sit on the motor box while the boat is in motion. Just thought I would pass that along...
This is not a normal everyday thing that we did on the 4th. It was dark and we stayed way back from the action. 300 plus boats, 75% were drinking(we were not), I felt safe with only a 2 min. boat ride back to the camp( 1/2 of that in a no wake zone ). I don't think we were what the law was looking for.

[east tx skier]

As far as I know, that's not against the law in Texas. Of course, they let people ride irritated bulls in this state. Sort of the same thing. He always hangs onto the rope (in his boat).

[bradamerry]

We stayed way back from the crowd and headed back in before the show was over. I've heard some bad stories about 300 plus boats all leaving at the same time??

[east tx skier]

I generally avoid taking the boat out on Mem'l Day, the 4th, and Labor Day, or, if I do, I go out very, very early. With the course set up in our cove, it won't be much of a problem, but it's like the idiot olympics - boat division on those days (present company excluded of course).

[aprgriggs]

As far as I know, that's not against the law in Texas. Of course, they let people ride irritated bulls in this state. Sort of the same thing. He always hangs onto the rope (in his boat).

hey east tx, Texas Law???

You can have as many people in the boat as you want as long as you have enough life jackets, right?

[east tx skier]

I don't know specifically, lemme check. I've heard of people getting tickets for this, but don't remember if they were Texans.

Edit:
I don't see that it's against the law, but it is under the "capacity" chapter in the safe boating part.

Texas Handbook of Boating Laws and Responsibilities (http://www.boat-ed.com/tx/handbook/toc.htm)

[bradamerry]

I generally avoid taking the boat out on Mem'l Day, the 4th, and Labor Day, or, if I do, I go out very, very early. With the course set up in our cove, it won't be much of a problem, but it's like the idiot olympics - boat division on those days (present company excluded of course).
We go on all 3 summer holidays, but remember we camp. So we enjoy those 3 day weekends. Not much sking, except for early morning and late evening. During the day we hit the water for some sightseeing, which reminds me I need some new sunglasses. Alot of hotties out on the holidays :worthy: !!

[east tx skier]

We actually got some pretty good skiing in this past Mem'l Day Weekend, but were way up river. I left my boat at home on the 4th and on Labor Day and used my father-in-law's boat.

[pflcjl]

OK the 197 is more popular because of resale, etc. You should suggest that the "mastercraft by design" offer a hard shell tonneau cover for the open bow area so us 190 "look" lovers can buy a 197 because of its resale, etc. but enjoy the look of a closed bow some of the time! What do you think???

[east tx skier]

I love the look of the closed bow boats. But would a hard tonneau cover plus bow seating, etc. cause it to be unnecessarily nose heavy?

[pflcjl]

lightweight Fiberglass!!

[USC8791]

I've got the 197 and will go with the 190 next time. At least for me the open bow has no benefit. I have no kids, and you can't use the open bow while running. Anyone who has put an adult in the open bow can tell you that if you turn around to pick up a downed skier and cross your wake at a slow speed the entire lake is coming in the boat due to the extra weight. You can obviously compensate for this by throttling up, but that's not always the safest given the situation. Even just settling off of plane with an adult in the bow can sink the nose. Just FYI stuff.

[east tx skier]

The older 205s are prone to do this with extra weight in the front, but some very gentle throttling will eliminate it completely (even with two in the bow). Closed bow boats are prone to this as well.

[east tx skier]

lightweight Fiberglass!!

How lightweight are we talking here?

[Ric]

yep and when it happened in my 190, the water came up the windshield and directly onto the driver and sometimes, the controls and instruments

[bradamerry]

yep and when it happened in my 190, the water came up the windshield and directly onto the driver and sometimes, the controls and instruments
I have gotten everybody wet in the boat when this happened. I've done it in mine and Farmer's boat.

[ski_king]

I misjudged the rollers behind a tug once.
I buried the nose in a large roller and had water a foot high coming over the windshield. I thought I submarined it for sure. I took on more water than the bilge would hold and my back seat was almost floating.

[Scot]

This brings up a design question I have always had... Why does the nose point downward? It seems this is just asking for a good wake to come and get ya!

[ski_king]

This brings up a design question I have always had... Why does the nose point downward? It seems this is just asking for a good wake to come and get ya!
Styling and visability?

[tex]

i have a 197 and know all too well about the nose dip. In the 90's I drove 190's every day for almost 5 years. The nose will dip just as easy, you just don't have a huge hole to fill up!

[u29460]

The killer is speed, if you go around slow you sever 2 purposes, you don’t get wet and it doesn’t screw up the water for you and the other skies.

I have 4 kids and still went with the 190. I have heard horror stories of little ones going over the bow……don’t even want to think about it.

[ski_king]

......I have heard horror stories of little ones going over the bow……don’t even want to think about it.
I have seen it happen to a teenager. Not a pretty sight.
Two teenagers in an I/O goofing around and one went over the bow and got hit by the lower unit and prop.
His buddy somehow got him back in the boat and back to my dock.
He survived but had hundreds of stiches.
Very lucky kid.

[ski_king]

And welcome to the board U29460!

[u29460]

Thanks, i have been an owner for 8 months now. I am digg'n it.

[lakes Rick]

This brings up a design question I have always had... Why does the nose point downward? It seems this is just asking for a good wake to come and get ya!

If I recall in the mid 80's (?) Supra came out with the nose down attitude styling and everyone liked it... I remember thinking how cool it was myself....

[JEREMY79]

I've done it in my '79 and my uncles '80. I think the older boats are very prone to it. A little careful driving can eliminate it though.

[jimmer2880]

I have seen it happen to a teenager. Not a pretty sight.
Two teenagers in an I/O goofing around and one went over the bow.....

And why wasn't the DRIVER SHOT on site for allowing this to happen? I get very angry when I see a cuddy, or pontoon boat crusing down the river with some kid sitting on the bow dangling their feet over the front! What IDIOTS!

I grew up in an open-bow I/O. The rule was, if your in the BOAT (not just the bow), no goofing around. Do that behind the boat where it's safer :D

Some day, I hope to be able to afford to upgrade to a 205 just for the open bow for the kids.

[bradamerry]

If I went to buy a new boat today, I would still buy a new 190. I don't want anybody up there, that way I don't have to worry about them falling out or getting in my view. I still like the closed bow look too :D .

[east tx skier]

If I recall in the mid 80's (?) Supra came out with the nose down attitude styling and everyone liked it... I remember thinking how cool it was myself....

My brother-in-law's 99 comp will nose dive easily if you don't power up a tad through the wakes.

I've thrown my $.02 on the open bow/closed bow thing plenty, so what's one more time? The additional seating of an open bow boat is minimal, especially pre-prostar 195/197. In my situation, nobody ever really wants to sit up there and I lose some observer seat for the walk through. A jump seat solves this, but it's in the way and doesn't conveniently fold to the side for bow access. I'd prefer the closed bow storage and extra seating, but on a few occassions, when I've been able to ski with four adults and two kids in the boat and me behind it(the adults were in the bow, I'm glad I've got the open bow.

The bottom line is that I'm happier when there are fewer people in the boat and would always like more storage.

I never worry much about resale as I plan to drive this boat until the skegs fall off.

[ski_king]

I am sure all of us have had water over the bow at least once. After a time or 2, we all have learned how to prevent it.
My biggest concern now is teaching my new drivers (daughters) how to prevent it when they are pulling me. It could get expensive with the cellphone and camera laying in the cubby in the dash.

As far as open or closed bow, Dosent matter much to me.
If I were to buy used, sounds like closed bow might ba a little better deal. If buying new, open bow will have better resell.


Oh, and as far as getting water over the bow. It is kinda fun to do from time to time, to wake up unsuspecting, rear facing observer. But only when they really need it.

[east tx skier]

... and if they're in the rear seat, a good power slide, done properly, will soak a back seat driver.

[Ric]

just for grins, we recently tried the course with a couple of teens the the open bow of my buddy's 205 and the attitude of that boat in the course with a couple hundred lbs in the bow was totally different. BEFORE going round the turn island, I had them get out of there.

[east tx skier]

Early 90s or late 90s 205? I don't think the nose of my father-in-law's 98 205 has ever been within a foot of the water.

[Ric]

Early 90s or late 90s 205? I don't think the nose of my father-in-law's 98 205 has ever been within a foot of the water.
This is a 99 205 and I dont know about water over the bow, I am referring to that boat acting waayy different when a skier is on (or actually what I mean is when there are 2 in the bow nobody in the rear of the boat) I decided nobody needed to be up there when I try to pull a skier up around the island for many reasons.

With only a driver and 2 observers, that boat is great in the course.

[east tx skier]

Turn islands are tight squeezes to be sure. I much prefer nobody in the bow when I'm pulling a skier, or, at least, sit on the port side. How'd that 99 205 handle the course generally. I've always thought they tracked like freight trains.

[Ric]

It's a sammy duvall with a tbi and I like the throttle and the tracking
I had low expectations and was pleasantly surprised
I've said it before, I'm no pro but I think it tracks -almost- as well as my 2000 190.

[east tx skier]

I regularly ski behind that hull and have no complaints. Very easy boat to drive, but not as nimble as my 93.