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H20skeefreek
01-16-2005, 05:44 PM
Ok, so my parents got me new gauges for the boat for christmas. I unhooked all of the old gauges, mapping out the connections and hooking up the new gauges exactly the same. The only difference is I went from an ammeter to a voltmeter. The problem is now when I hook it up, I get nuthin'. won't turn over, won't supply power to the (gauge) ights. at startup, the ignition/motor/start isn't looking for anything from the dash is it? the dash doesn't need to be working fully to complete any circiuts does it? I'm kinda lost on what could be messed up.

as soon as we get my boat running, I'll have pics of my new gauges to show everyone.

H20skeefreek
01-16-2005, 06:00 PM
Ok, so my parents got me new gauges for the boat for christmas. I unhooked all of the old gauges, mapping out the connections and hooking up the new gauges exactly the same. The only difference is I went from an ammeter to a voltmeter. The problem is now when I hook it up, I get nuthin'. won't turn over, won't supply power to the (gauge) ights. at startup, the ignition/motor/start isn't looking for anything from the dash is it? the dash doesn't need to be working fully to complete any circiuts does it? I'm kinda lost on what could be messed up.

as soon as we get my boat running, I'll have pics of my new gauges to show everyone.


ok ok, new development. If I attach the 12vHOT to the voltmeter, everything on the boat will work, but this means that the voltmeter will read all of the time. is this normal? for those of you with a voltmeter, it isn't on all of the time is it? wouldn't that run the batt. down?

for some reason the 12v hot has to be connected (I thought it should be 12v ignition)

Storm861triple
01-16-2005, 06:08 PM
To get the ampmeter to work, you need to run the main "charging" wire from the alternator up to the dash. It needs to run all that current THROUGH the amp meter, and back to "battery".

Volt meter. It should not be on when the key is off, and it will run the battery dead if it si on all the time. Follow the wire suplying power to the volt meter SOUNDS like it needs to be connecte to the key switches mai power "in" and then a wire w/keyed power needs to be connected to the volt meter.

-Tom

H20skeefreek
01-16-2005, 07:57 PM
To get the ampmeter to work, you need to run the main "charging" wire from the alternator up to the dash. It needs to run all that current THROUGH the amp meter, and back to "battery".

Volt meter. It should not be on when the key is off, and it will run the battery dead if it si on all the time. Follow the wire suplying power to the volt meter SOUNDS like it needs to be connecte to the key switches mai power "in" and then a wire w/keyed power needs to be connected to the volt meter.

-Tom

sooooo, if i'm switching from a ampmeter to volt meter what do i need to do? the batt. pos is running to the ampmeter, then there is obviously another wire carrying power back to the distribution panel. if I take that ampmeter out, how do I get that juice back to to rest of the boat?

ampmeter had 3 wires 12vhot, 12vignition and ground.

voltmeter just has 12vignition and ground.

Storm861triple
01-16-2005, 08:07 PM
O.K. I mis read your first post and thought you said that you were going FROM a volt meter TO a amp meter. I got you now though.

So on your old amp meter SHOULD have only had two wires, (or 4 if back lit). One coming from the alternator, and one coming from the battery. When running, the current passing through the ampmeter from the alt to the bat would produce a reading on the guage. It would have made sense to stack the main power wire on one of those posts (wouldn't matter which one), to power the key switch. The ampmeter shouldn't need power to operate or ground to make the guage function.

W/the new volt meter, all you literally need to make it work is a ground, and 12 v keyed power.

H20skeefreek
01-16-2005, 08:18 PM
O.K. I mis read your first post and thought you said that you were going FROM a volt meter TO a amp meter. I got you now though.

So on your old amp meter SHOULD have only had two wires, (or 4 if back lit). One coming from the alternator, and one coming from the battery. When running, the current passing through the ampmeter from the alt to the bat would produce a reading on the guage. It would have made sense to stack the main power wire on one of those posts (wouldn't matter which one), to power the key switch. The ampmeter shouldn't need power to operate or ground to make the guage function.

W/the new volt meter, all you literally need to make it work is a ground, and 12 v keyed power.

ok, so if I have the HOT wire that was going to that location, where do I put it now to make it work? I can make the voltmeter work if the HOT wire is in a complete circuit. Can I make it work without re-wireing the whole boat? If I have to, i'll leave the ampmeter in the circuit, but leave it behind the dash for now (trying to ski tomorrow)

Storm861triple
01-16-2005, 08:55 PM
The HOT wire going to that location should be a pretty big wire. 12g at least I would think. If it were my boat, I'd run that wire directly to the BATT. terminal on the key switch, thereby supplying power to the whole system.

Fom the RUN or IGN. terminal on the key switch, I would run a wire to to volt gauge and then run a ground. That should be it to make the volg gauge work.

Now with that done, I don't believe your alternator will charge, because the wire coming from the alt to the old ampmeter then form there to the battery will have been disconnected (by moving the BATT wire to the key switch). If you can locate that wire, you can stack it too on the BATT terminal of the key switch, OR pull it back through to the engine, and re-run it to the battery*

*By battery, that could be the +post terminal of the battery, the battery side of the starter solinoid, etc.

H20skeefreek
01-16-2005, 09:19 PM
The HOT wire going to that location should be a pretty big wire. 12g at least I would think. If it were my boat, I'd run that wire directly to the BATT. terminal on the key switch, thereby supplying power to the whole system.

Fom the RUN or IGN. terminal on the key switch, I would run a wire to to volt gauge and then run a ground. That should be it to make the volg gauge work.

Now with that done, I don't believe your alternator will charge, because the wire coming from the alt to the old ampmeter then form there to the battery will have been disconnected (by moving the BATT wire to the key switch). If you can locate that wire, you can stack it too on the BATT terminal of the key switch, OR pull it back through to the engine, and re-run it to the battery*

*By battery, that could be the +post terminal of the battery, the battery side of the starter solinoid, etc.

excellent, I'll take your advise. I'll let you know if I have any more questions :)

Storm861triple
01-16-2005, 09:24 PM
10-4. Hard to tell if I'm being clear. If you were here, I'd draw a diagram... If it doesn't work out, I can draw one and scan it.

-Tom

H20skeefreek
01-17-2005, 11:55 AM
10-4. Hard to tell if I'm being clear. If you were here, I'd draw a diagram... If it doesn't work out, I can draw one and scan it.

-Tom

I attached the BATT to the ign. switch, then changed over the 12volt wire that was on BATT to IGN (supply for voltmeter now) and so far all of the gauges work when they are supposed to.

my only questions now is 1. will the boat start (should, haven't changed anything there) and 2. will the alternator charge.

so, there were 3 orange wires hooked up to the back of the ampmeter. If I assume one of them is my alt wire to tell the alt when to charge. If I leave these attached to the voltmeter, won't that still give the alt the info it needs?

Storm861triple
01-17-2005, 12:03 PM
1. If you hooked up ther ign. and starter solinoid wires to the proper place on the ignition switch (same as before) it should start.
2. I don't think the alt will charge unless you know the charge wire coming from the alt is connected to BATT at some point. Whether that is on the back of the key sw, the battery itself or the starting sol. It doesn't matter. It has to be some point, though, that has a beefy battery wire going to it. Why can't you just fire it up and check?

-Tom

H20skeefreek
01-17-2005, 12:42 PM
1. If you hooked up ther ign. and starter solinoid wires to the proper place on the ignition switch (same as before) it should start.
2. I don't think the alt will charge unless you know the charge wire coming from the alt is connected to BATT at some point. Whether that is on the back of the key sw, the battery itself or the starting sol. It doesn't matter. It has to be some point, though, that has a beefy battery wire going to it. Why can't you just fire it up and check?

-Tom


I will be firing it up soon, I'll let you know. when you say it has to be connected to BATT, do you mean HOT or IGN? it is connect to the IGN terminal on my voltmetter, piggy backing off of it's supply. I'll let you know if it works.

I've been working in the garage w/ no water supply. trying to get it working in theory before I test it in real life. I know if I bump the key, it does turn over, so that is no worry now. I'll post in a few hours. Hve to do run some real world errands before I get to play any more.

Storm861triple
01-17-2005, 01:41 PM
When I say "BATT" I mean any GOOD, solid + terminal. Again this could be the wire that's powering up your ignition (should be a fairly stout wire), it could be the bettery side of your starter solenoid, or it could be the +post on the battery itself. I don't think hooking your alt wire to the "IGN" post on your volt metter will work well because the wire going from there to your key switch is *probably* too small to flow the current that is coming from your alt...it may burn up that section of wire. If it were my boat, I'd run the alt's charging wire from the alt, to the battery side of the starter solenoid, since it's close by.

You can run it long enough to see if it's charging w/o water w/no issues, IMO.

-Tom

JimN
01-17-2005, 01:45 PM
H20- do you have a multi-meter? If not, go to Radio Shack and get a cheapie digital one. You need to see if one of the 3 orange wires goes to the alternator charging post. If it does, you can connect the 3 orange wires together and find an ignition lead under the dash (probably purple) and connect the voltmeter to that wire. On the boats with the voltmeter, the 12V ign lead goes to the safety switch, then to the ignition switch, then to the gauges. I suspect that one of the orange wires goes directly to the ign switch.

H20skeefreek
01-17-2005, 04:14 PM
H20- do you have a multi-meter? If not, go to Radio Shack and get a cheapie digital one. You need to see if one of the 3 orange wires goes to the alternator charging post. If it does, you can connect the 3 orange wires together and find an ignition lead under the dash (probably purple) and connect the voltmeter to that wire. On the boats with the voltmeter, the 12V ign lead goes to the safety switch, then to the ignition switch, then to the gauges. I suspect that one of the orange wires goes directly to the ign switch.


yes, i do have a multimeter.

there is a orang wire (16awg) going from the IGN side of the ign. switch to the voltmeter (used to be where the ampmeter was)

the other 2 wires, one of them must go to alt., but don't know which, haven't been able to figure that out yet. what could the other go to? I would assume that the larger one (14awg) is going to the alt. so are you both in agreement that I shouldn't get my juice for the alt from the voltmeter? or if the wire is big enough it's ok? They are the same wires that were there when the ampmeter was the gauge.

H20skeefreek
01-17-2005, 04:59 PM
ok, so I ran the boat, and while running I was showing around 14 volts, so I must be gettin alt output.

when i started her up, the tach seemed to be running ok, but after revving it up a little and letting her warm up, I looked back at the tach and it was now showing 6K rpm's but she had been at less than 1K. as I rev the motor, the tach FALLS. any guesses on that one?

also, when i tried to turn the key off, it wouldn't shut down, I had to choke kill the motor to get it to turn off, what's up with this one.

I hate that I just fired my mechanic the other day (story for another post). I need to tune my carb and I don't know my rpms.

JimN
01-17-2005, 05:40 PM
If you labelled the wires when you removed them from the ammeter, I would guess that the heaviest one was on the IN terminal and the other two were on the OUT with one of them going to the ign switch. It sounds like you have voltage to the coil at all times and the key is only energizing the starter. Verify this.

If all else fails, reconnect the ammeter the way it was before you started and find out where the third orange wire goes. If you connected that one to the ignition (key on) terminal of the ign switch (one of your posts said you did this), this is the reason you can't turn it off. Use the multi-meter to trace the orange wires and find out which is connected to the alternator and any other connections. Read my last post for the typical route for the ignition (purple) lead.

Does your alternator have one wire or two attached to it? If it has two going to one terminal, the heaviest one is going to be red, attached to the battery and the other is orange, going to the boat harness, which then goes to the dash and the ammeter.

The one you think is the alternator wire doesn't tell it when to charge, is sends voltage to the field coil which, when voltage is applied, creates a magnetic field. When the armature rotates, this induces an AC voltage. If you move a coil through a magnetic field or move a magnetic field past a coil, this will happen. Then it goes through the rectifier to make it into DC voltage.

H20skeefreek
01-17-2005, 06:39 PM
Well, I'm getting there, I just wish my new gauge set had come with an ammeter rather than a voltmeter.

there are 2 posts on my ignition switch that look like they go to the same spot on the switch. when I unhooked the HOT wire from one post, and hooked it to the other, the switch now works normally. I hooked the orange wire that feeds the voltmeter to the purple wire on the back of the ignition switch (it works, is there anything wrong with this?) it's only hot with the key on.

One orange wire on the back of the voltmeter powers the gauge panel, and the other sent juice to the alt. I unhooked the alt wire and hooked it up the the HOT wire that is going to the ignition switch. But now my voltmeter is showing a lower voltage. not sure if my alt is charging. is there anyway to test the alt. directly w/o relying on the new gauges?

tach is reading ok now, seemed to fix it when I took the ALT wire off of the voltmeter and hooked it to HOT.

my temp gauge keeps climbing and climbing. the new gauge came with a temp sending unit, but I left the old one in. it's reading like 210 and keeps climbing, but the engine is CLEARLY not this hot. is there a way to check what the actual temp is?

I won't get a chance to run the boat again 'til Thursday, but I can work on the dash in the evenings.

H20skeefreek
01-19-2005, 09:47 PM
ok Jim and Tom and anyone else who has input.

I tracked down all of the wires and here is what I have.

Jim, to answer your question from several posts ago, the alt has 3 wires. I don't know if you remember when I got the alternator, but they used very NON standard colors on the ALT. The big terminal is read, then a red and black wire come out of the back of the alt and the ground is on the body of the alt. The BIG main wire on the ALT goes to the BIG Orange wire that is now ultimatly hooked to BATT. there is a small Yellow wire which goes to the coil and a small teal wire which, in it's stock form goes to the back of the oil pressure gauge??? ultimately I think it's picking up Purple power or IGN power. everything sound kosher there?

I changed the temp sending unit to the one that came with the gauge, everything should be compatible there. We'll see what it reads tomorrow afternoon.

Other than that I think everything is ok. Have to get new bulbs for the speedometers and button everything down, then I can start tuning my carb, which has started to leak again.

H20skeefreek
01-19-2005, 10:16 PM
lol, it never ends. The fuel gauge isn't quite right, lets see if we can figure this out.

with the old gauge, it would read empty when there was a little less than half a tank left. the new guage is reading FULL. The packaging says use a 90 ohms full sender, but the instructions say to get autometer part number 3262 sender, which is a 240 ohms full 33 ohms empty, which is standard marine stuff, and what should be on the boat. why would this read FULL, and i mean FULL, all of the time? and more importantly, how do i fix it, do I need to get the autometer part?

anyone anyone.....