PDA

View Full Version : Dealer Experiences.....


JohnnyB
03-05-2007, 07:30 PM
I was down in Madison, WI today and had some time to kill so I stopped in at Redline Watersports (Madison's MC Dealer).

I had never been there before. Great experience!!! The staff there is great. It showed that they know their boats and watersports. We talked quite a bit about MCs, skis, clinics, etc.

I got to see the 214....what a huge boat. If the wake is truly as good as the 197, it'll be a great seller. I think my 197 would fit inside it (maybe not, but its big).

They had lots of boats in their showroom so it was cool to walk around and see them all.....one 197 and lots of x-boats to dwarf it.

Even with the long drive, I will seriously consider them for my future MC needs. I spent only a little time there but was impressed with them.

bigmac
03-05-2007, 08:28 PM
I was down in Madison, WI today and had some time to kill so I stopped in at Redline Watersports (Madison's MC Dealer).

I had never been there before. Great experience!!! The staff there is great. It showed that they know their boats and watersports. We talked quite a bit about MCs, skis, clinics, etc.

I got to see the 214....what a huge boat. If the wake is truly as good as the 197, it'll be a great seller. I think my 197 would fit inside it (maybe not, but its big).

They had lots of boats in their showroom so it was cool to walk around and see them all.....one 197 and lots of x-boats to dwarf it.

Even with the long drive, I will seriously consider them for my future MC needs. I spent only a little time there but was impressed with them.If I understand MasterCraft's dealer marketing strategy correctly, you might be able to buy from Redline only if they and Mr. Outboards in Depere can come to an agreement as to how to split up the sale. Otherwise, Mr. Outboards is your dealer.

duckguy
03-05-2007, 10:48 PM
I bought my boat from Mike at Redline and have all my service done there as well. I cannot say enough good about them.

WTRSK1R
03-05-2007, 10:53 PM
Mike at Redline has always been great to work with.

jbfootin
03-06-2007, 12:02 PM
If I understand MasterCraft's dealer marketing strategy correctly, you might be able to buy from Redline only if they and Mr. Outboards in Depere can come to an agreement as to how to split up the sale. Otherwise, Mr. Outboards is your dealer.
Are you saying that I can not drive to any dealer and buy a boat!?!?!? Mr.O's sucks and I am stuck with them just because I live in the wrong zip code!?!?!? I have a hard time swallowing that. I would think that if I brought me boat to Redline to be serviced, they would take care of me, or if I showed up with cash in hand they would sell me a boat.

Maybe MYMC or Erkoelher can clear this up...:confused:

jlf
03-06-2007, 12:08 PM
That is correct MC can not sell out of their area on New Boats, now if you were to purchase an used boat that is a different story. Doesn't matter if you show up with enough cash in hand to purchase the $90,000 X-Star if you are out of their area they would have a hard time selling you that boat. I imagine there are probably ways around such a rule which someone may be willing to discuss privatly with you!!

jlf
03-06-2007, 12:09 PM
There have been several discussion on this board on this very topic. Some of them have become rather heated. If you search I bet you will find several threads related to this topic.

jlf
03-06-2007, 12:12 PM
Are you saying that I can not drive to any dealer and buy a boat!?!?!? Mr.O's sucks and I am stuck with them just because I live in the wrong zip code!?!?!? I have a hard time swallowing that. I would think that if I brought me boat to Redline to be serviced, they would take care of me, or if I showed up with cash in hand they would sell me a boat.

Maybe MYMC or Erkoelher can clear this up...:confused:
They can service your boat...but can't sell you a new one if you are out of their area. It has been mentioned (not saying it's true) that if you take your boat to a dealer to be serviced out of your area you may wait longer to have it fixed because they take care of their customers first. Again hear say, not saying any dealer does this, just what I have read from other's experiences on this board.

bigmac
03-06-2007, 12:20 PM
Are you saying that I can not drive to any dealer and buy a boat!?!?!? Mr.O's sucks and I am stuck with them just because I live in the wrong zip code!?!?!? I have a hard time swallowing that. I would think that if I brought me boat to Redline to be serviced, they would take care of me, or if I showed up with cash in hand they would sell me a boat.

Maybe MYMC or Erkoelher can clear this up...:confused:

Yeh, this has come up here before. I can't remember the players, but someone wanted to buy a new boat from a dealer other than the one he was "assigned" by zip code. The remote dealer demurred because the other dealer complained and the split required by MasterCraft's dealership agreements became onerous to the distant dealer.

My buddy who lives up here on our lake was in Minneapolis at the boat show a couple of years ago and bought an X-10. There was some kind of split on the deal between the Mpls. dealer and our local dealer here because he lives here but bought the boat there. For my buddy, it was very amicable and transparent because both of the Minnesota dealers are class acts, but that's not necessarily true everywhere. In some cases the distant dealer ends up selling his only 214, for example, for less money than he would have otherwise received if he sells to a customer from another dealership area because he has to split the sale. In that case, that dealer might then refuse to sell to that particular person.

These issues usually seem to get resolved, but it apparently requires quite the brouhaha and involves MasterCraft corporate. You'd have to really want a MasterCraft instead of a competing brand to go through all that crap.

MYMC
03-06-2007, 12:21 PM
This is the United States of America and you can buy a boat anywhere you like...no one can stop you...however (you knew that was coming didnt you?) the dealer selling "out of territory" stands to be penalized by MasterCraft Boat Company for doing so.

There are ways to work this out between the two dealers and the intent of the rules is to foster communication...not to lose sales. If you have legit reasons to be unhappy with a local dealer then you should explain them to the dealer you want to purchase from and they can present those to the area rep, the other dealer and national sales manager so that something can be worked out...this all happens behind the scenes (or should) and has nothing to do with customer relations (or shouldn't).

Archimedes
03-06-2007, 12:59 PM
What MYMC said. I bought my boat out of region simply because my local dealer didn't have the boat in stock I wanted on the trailer I needed. I had no choice. Even though my experience with my local dealer has always been awful, I would have purchased from them anyway just to have a local relationship. I wound up buying from a dealer 200 miles away and they had to split the profit on my boat with my local dealer.

All that said, given all the problems I've had with my X-1, I would never, ever buy from a dealer far away again.

shepherd
03-06-2007, 01:06 PM
I'm glad Harley doesn't have the same policy. I visited 4 different dealerships between here and Orlando, and called 2 others in the local area, before deciding to buy from the Ocala store.

If I was still in Orlando and didn't want to deal with Liquid Sports, and Jim@BAWS couldn't sell me a boat, I'd probably end up going to Southeast Correct Craft to buy my new boat. :cool:

Hopefully, it's not a real issue like MYMC said.

bigmac
03-06-2007, 01:39 PM
I'm glad Harley doesn't have the same policy. I visited 4 different dealerships between here and Orlando, and called 2 others in the local area, before deciding to buy from the Ocala store.

If I was still in Orlando and didn't want to deal with Liquid Sports, and Jim@BAWS couldn't sell me a boat, I'd probably end up going to Southeast Correct Craft to buy my new boat. :cool:

Hopefully, it's not a real issue like MYMC said.

http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=9155

http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=9596

.

jbfootin
03-06-2007, 02:22 PM
Well you learn something new every day....I can understand that Mastercraft wants to have clear regions for their dealerships, but if someone would rather drive 120 miles than 30 miles to buy a boat, no mater what their reason is, they sould be free to do so and the 120 mile dealer should not have to share the profit. They were chosen by the customer and the other was not.

That is just my opinion... someday when I am on the Board of Directors for MC, I will have to look into this:cool: ;)

JohnE
03-06-2007, 03:23 PM
I also think that you should be able to buy a MC at any dealer. And in a perfect world, all of the MC dealers would be first class, A1, etc., and there would be no reason to go out of the territory. The dealers should have to earn your business and loyalty. There are at least a few fine examples of this type of dealer here on the forum.

JohnE
03-06-2007, 04:21 PM
I'm sure MC doesn't want their dealers getting slammed on the forum. But if the great dealers can benefit from the forum, the poor ones should take the heat. In the long run, it would probably be better for MC as a company.

rstitson
03-06-2007, 04:32 PM
I am fortunate that I am almost equal distance between dealers and the first dealer I went to was not in state. There are a number of reasons I would not buy from then. Don't neet to go into them. But when looking for another dealer found one in state. We live in a small population state. So far I have been very happy with them. But if I had run into dealer issues I would have bought something besides a mastercraft. They are making a mistake having customers not have the ability to deal with autocratic dealers by finding a competitor. Maybe that is one reason their sales are declining relative to competition.

east tx skier
03-06-2007, 04:32 PM
I'm sure MC doesn't want their dealers getting slammed on the forum. But if the great dealers can benefit from the forum, the poor ones should take the heat. In the long run, it would probably be better for MC as a company.

I agree. Nonetheless, the posting guidelines state that explicit dealer bashing isn't allowed. That's just the way it is. Posts in which dealers are bashed will be edited or deleted. Believe me, the sooner I am relieved of these buttons, the better. But until then, I will do the job I've agreed to do. I would greatly appreciate the cooperation of the members of this forum.

duckguy
03-06-2007, 04:54 PM
Posting guidelines are very North Koreaish. No bad things can be said or they get deleted. How sad and pathetic.

JohnE
03-06-2007, 04:55 PM
The posting guidelines state that dealer bashing isn't allowed. That's just the way it is. Posts in which dealers are bashed will be edited or deleted. Believe me, the sooner I am relieved of these buttons, the better. But until then, I will do the job I've agreed to do. I would greatly appreciate the cooperation of the members of this forum.

I guess I never read the rules. My bad. But believe me, I am not bashing anyone. I apologize for the prior comment. I do feel that way but am sorry I posted it.

PendO
03-06-2007, 04:59 PM
I bashed "the gap" it got deleted twice-I dont regret it they suck.

sweet ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

go post it on wakesiderides.com ... it won't get deleted:)

PendO
03-06-2007, 05:02 PM
Thank you sir, can I have some more M/C Kool-Aid

east tx skier
03-06-2007, 05:04 PM
Posting guidelines are very North Koreaish. No bad things can be said or they get deleted. How sad and pathetic.

I sympathize with your position. That said, the fact remains that this site is owned by MC, and we don't get to make the rules. We have each agreed to abide by MC's terms of use policy and MC will do what is necessary to make sure these rules are followed.

east tx skier
03-06-2007, 05:12 PM
I guess I never read the rules. My bad. But believe me, I am not bashing anyone. I apologize for the prior comment. I do feel that way but am sorry I posted it.

John, you didn't bash anyone. But quoting something and deleting it sort of defeats the point, so I quoted your post because it was pertinenet. It's admin's problem now.

Footin
03-06-2007, 05:51 PM
If you want to go to another dealer to buy a boat, why can't you have the "other" dealer put a couple hours on a new boat then sell it to you as a demo?

PendO
03-06-2007, 05:55 PM
If you want to go to another dealer to buy a boat, why can't you have the "other" dealer put a couple hours on a new boat then sell it to you as a demo?

ICBW, but I think that dealers can order boats from MC as a Demo boat, they get a little better price, but they have to put some hours on it before it can be sold ... still, I think that it is a "new boat" as far as corp is concerned ... they can tell who is the first registered owner (warranty registration) ... and dealers that sell out of area risk financial consequences ... best thing to do is buy a lightly used boat from MYMC, Jim@Baws, or Erk :)

JohnE
03-06-2007, 06:38 PM
... best thing to do is buy a lightly used boat from MYMC, Jim@Baws, or Erk :)

I can't argue with that.;)

andy@midwestmastercraft
03-06-2007, 08:50 PM
Guys,

The policy is actually a bit different than has been represented here. MasterCraft wants to see people purchase the boat from the dealer who they will go to for service. At the end of the day MC corporate does not care which dealer you buy from but wants you to have a good ownership experience. If you honestly intend to drive 2 hours for service when there is a closer dealer then buy from the guy two hours away.

That dealer may or may not choose to throw some $ to the "local" dealer. MC's policy is intended to try and keep a MC owner from going to the "local" dealer and not getting treated as well as they would have if they purchased the boat there. This is common in "resort" markets where a small dealer staff may get dumped on by boats sold by other dealers. Consumers walk in and demand a very high level of service. (They may have shopped the "resort" dealer and found a better price elsewhere.) In that situation, the "resort" dealer will probably choose to service the customers who did business with them first. In certain markets this has been a real problem for MC owners thus the policy. MC has also cut a lot of dealers who have created problems either selling out of territory or not providing a high level of service.

As a rule of thumb you are usually best served to buy from your local dealer or be within driving range when you need service. This industry is very small. It is not like the auto industry where 50% of the sales/service staff changes every 6 mos. You want to be able to call in the "Hey I wrote you a huge check and I really need you to ...," if you boat breaks on 7/3. If you did not buy from that dealer, you will probably be told to come back next week because they have too much work to get you in. In most situations, the dealer saying this is not doing it to get revenge. It is simply a matter of fact in a seasonal business. You can't have enough qualified staff during parts of the year and you can't have too little other times!

Some dealers think they own every sale in a zip code range. This is America and you can buy from who you choose. Buy from the dealer who earns your business and who you intend to go back to for service. MC corporate will not have an issue if you are honestly going to service with "your" dealer even if there is a closer option. If you are buying from the dealer two hours away to save a few bucks then you are giving up your ability to play the sympathy/valued customer card if you are ever in a pinch. That mythical card can be worth quite a bit if a problem ever does develop on 7/3!

JohnE
03-06-2007, 09:07 PM
This whole service quandry blows my mind. I would expect a dealer to bend over backward, work the schedule, etc for someone who has bought their boat new from them. But I would expect that there is money to be made in service, so a dealer would want to work on any MC brought through the door. Just get in line. The claim is that there is not "revenge" going on in the industry. If not, why would the policy even mention "buy where you plan for the boat to be serviced"?

whitedog
03-06-2007, 09:09 PM
Andy, Well said. One of the best explinations in the last couple of years. Thanks for your input.

Leroy
03-06-2007, 09:10 PM
I have a great dealer here in Fishers Pine Crest Marina, even though I've only bought small stuff from them. JR did drive over to buy a boat there. They know the industry, are good to talk with and keep a clean shop.

The dealer I bought my boat from (Marks RVs and Boats) was going out of the boat business when I bought it, but the sales guy was great and I've seen him at other boat stores since then.

P-hat_in_Cincy
03-06-2007, 09:15 PM
This whole service quandry blows my mind. I would expect a dealer to bend over backward, work the schedule, etc for someone who has bought their boat new from them. But I would expect that there is money to be made in service, so a dealer would want to work on any MC brought through the door.

It might have something to do with warranty work shop rates (I don't know if MC pays a standard rate for warranty work vs. what the shop normally charges).

I'm sure it's human nature to some extent to 'play favorites' for those that bought from you, but the flip side might be to not understand that "the good job you do today might get you the payoff tomorrow."

Archimedes
03-06-2007, 09:56 PM
Guys,

The policy is actually a bit different than has been represented here. MasterCraft wants to see people purchase the boat from the dealer who they will go to for service. At the end of the day MC corporate does not care which dealer you buy from but wants you to have a good ownership experience. If you honestly intend to drive 2 hours for service when there is a closer dealer then buy from the guy two hours away.

Your explanation makes sense, but what would make better sense is if MC simply let the market decide. This would force all dealers to compete and we all know competition improves performance. In my case, what would you do if a) your local dealer doesn't have the boat you want and the salesman won't give you the time of day or a straight answer on ordering time, price, etc., b) all their boats are on Sportboat trailers (with a phony premium) that you don't want and all they want to do is jam it down your throat, and c) the dealer has a horrible reputation for service after the sale, including a parts desk that's less knowledgeable about the boats than the average TT member? You have no choice but to look elsewhere. So then your local dealer is pissed and puts you to the bottom of the list.

IMO, the real issue for MC is that the bad dealers will eventually drive customers to the competition. I can tell you, as much as I love MC, if my boat died tomorrow, I would buy another boat locally and I would not buy from the local MC dealer. Which means I'd probably wind up in a Nautique. All because my local dealer is disreputable.

I'm sure there are plenty of great MC dealers out there, many of whom post on this board, but there appear also to be some awful ones as well and MC's policies, though unintended, serve to protect them rather than force them to improve.

atlfootr
03-06-2007, 10:34 PM
haven't had any recently to speak of ...

BoulderX45
03-06-2007, 10:53 PM
Wow! It sounds like the local MC Dealer doesn't make any money on warranty work. If MC builds a boat with issues then MC should pay the dealer a good penny to make that consumer happy and the boat right. So, if the local dealer chooses to sell their boats at a higher margin then the dealer two hours away. That local dealer can still give the top notch service we all expect from a MC Dealer.

P-hat_in_Cincy
03-07-2007, 07:59 AM
Wow! It sounds like the local MC Dealer doesn't make any money on warranty work. If MC builds a boat with issues then MC should pay the dealer a good penny to make that consumer happy and the boat right.

Again, I don't know what the policy is for warranty work rates. What I'm pretty sure of is that it is somewhat common practice in the auto industry that warranty work rates are set by the manufacturer. After the warranty expires, your left to the shops work rate.

That's not to say the shop (in this scenario) isn't making ANY money, it just might not be making it's normal margin.

JohnE
03-07-2007, 08:18 AM
For the record, my comments were not in regards to warranty work. Just for service that I'm paying for. I understand that warranty work may not be profitable for a dealer. I have no idea how much mc pays a dealer for warranty items.

JohnE
03-07-2007, 08:19 AM
Your explanation makes sense, but what would make better sense is if MC simply let the market decide. This would force all dealers to compete and we all know competition improves performance. In my case, what would you do if a) your local dealer doesn't have the boat you want and the salesman won't give you the time of day or a straight answer on ordering time, price, etc., b) all their boats are on Sportboat trailers (with a phony premium) that you don't want and all they want to do is jam it down your throat, and c) the dealer has a horrible reputation for service after the sale, including a parts desk that's less knowledgeable about the boats than the average TT member? You have no choice but to look elsewhere. So then your local dealer is pissed and puts you to the bottom of the list.

IMO, the real issue for MC is that the bad dealers will eventually drive customers to the competition. I can tell you, as much as I love MC, if my boat died tomorrow, I would buy another boat locally and I would not buy from the local MC dealer. Which means I'd probably wind up in a Nautique. All because my local dealer is disreputable.

I'm sure there are plenty of great MC dealers out there, many of whom post on this board, but there appear also to be some awful ones as well and MC's policies, though unintended, serve to protect them rather than force them to improve.

Well said Archimedes.

bigmac
03-07-2007, 08:32 AM
Some dealers think they own every sale in a zip code range. This is America and you can buy from who you choose. Buy from the dealer who earns your business and who you intend to go back to for service. MC corporate will not have an issue if you are honestly going to service with "your" dealer even if there is a closer option. If you are buying from the dealer two hours away to save a few bucks then you are giving up your ability to play the sympathy/valued customer card if you are ever in a pinch. That mythical card can be worth quite a bit if a problem ever does develop on 7/3!

Sure, but this being America, the dealer can also choose to sell to whomever he chooses too. Yes? If he's penalized in some way by MasterCraft's dealership agreement for selling outside his territory, might he not refuse to make that sale? He could make the same sale to someone else that's local later that day and get the whole nut...

The other issue comes up when the buyer has to get two dealers and MasterCraft involved. He just wants to buy a boat, in the meantime those other three parties are negotiating to make sure the terms of the dealership agreement are met. Who wants to go through that for the privilege of spending $50,000? IIRC, that was JRandol's experience in trying to buy the boat that he wanted from the dealer he wanted. That all ultimately got resolved to his satisfaction, but the way he recounted it, it wasn't exactly a seamless transaction.

MYMC
03-07-2007, 09:21 AM
I thought that I pretty well stated what the options were...you can buy from whomever you like, whenever you like, wherever you like; otherwise it would be a restriction of trade and there are laws against that. Any conflict between dealers should be handled "off the radar" and shouldn't involve the customer what-so-ever...the unfortunate reality is that this hardly ever is the case as has been posted here ad nauseum.

I've always told you guy’s exactly how it is and will continue to do so...the truth is there are substantial penalties for this type of sale that MC can enforce upon the selling dealer. That’s just the way it is…

FYI…give me the free market economy, I have been a vocal proponent of doing away with territories since the start and if a dealer won’t honor the warranty then your dealer agreement should be canceled on the spot.

PendO
03-07-2007, 03:19 PM
I thought that I pretty well stated what the options were...

Sure, but what engine should I put in an X-45, I mean I hear the MCX has plenty of horsepower:)

MYMC
03-07-2007, 03:57 PM
Perfect...I would pull a couple plug wires and injector wires when cruising to help with fuel consumption as well.:rolleyes:

TX.X-30 fan
03-07-2007, 04:27 PM
Perfect...I would pull a couple plug wires and injector wires when cruising to help with fuel consumption as well.:rolleyes:


Which ones would I pull 1/8 2/7 ??? :confused:

MYMC
03-07-2007, 04:37 PM
Which ones would I pull 1/8 2/7 ??? :confused:
Well the center cylinders on a SBC are the most likley to blow up so lets do #6 and #5...and then we are even better off!8p

PendO
03-07-2007, 07:02 PM
Well the center cylinders on a SBC are the most likley to blow up so lets do #6 and #5...and then we are even better off!8p

Sweet, a MasterCraft with displacement on demand.

MYMC
03-08-2007, 10:48 AM
Sweet, a MasterCraft with displacement on demand.
Its worked so well in the past...(voice of Borat) NOT!