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Andyg
02-06-2007, 04:33 PM
I rented a cabin outside of the Wisconsin Dells area for a bachelor party the first weekend in December. The rental agreement included a security deposit of $500 that was to be refunded after the unit was inspected. We left the place spotless.

The guy that rents it rents it through a LLC and stated it takes him about 3-4 weeks to get the deposit back to me since he runs the rental himself. That was no big deal, but it has now been two months and he hasn't returned a phone call or an email since he said he gave me the 3-4 week timeline on 12/13. This guy has got to be scamming me for $500. It just boggles my mind that someone is that shady they are willing to steal $500 from someone.

I sent him a final letter demanding the refunding of the security deposit and I informed him if I don't have the money in a week I am taking him to small claims court.

Does anyone else have any other ideas? I paid the security deposit via paypal. Paypal will not help in disputes when there is no merchandise being exchanged. I am going to try my credit card company that I used to pay for the deposit and see what they have to say. I will see if I can dispute the charges.

JKTX21
02-06-2007, 04:38 PM
I'd take him to court OR go get my money's worth out of the place.

east tx skier
02-06-2007, 04:41 PM
I think around here there's a statutory time frame for a landlord to get a renter's security deposit back (30 days if memory serves). Don't know what the rules are up there.

Datdude
02-06-2007, 04:44 PM
I would try a registered letter to make sure he is getting it? Otherwise I would make a trip to his office and see what is up. I am guessing that showing up unannounced would be pretty effective.

"Hey Moose, Rocco.....help the "cabin rental guy" find his wallet" comes to mind:cool: (from Caddyshack)

barefoot
02-06-2007, 04:54 PM
I think around here there's a statutory time frame for a landlord to get a renter's security deposit back (30 days if memory serves). Don't know what the rules are up there.


I think it's 21 days in WI. Something tells me that if he doesn't respond in writing within 21 days with OR without the security deposit, you are able to sue for double the amount. I'm not an attorney so please don't quote me...I'm sure there are web sites that will be able to shed some light if this is considered a renters/tenant situation.

kycat2007
02-06-2007, 04:55 PM
I would go to his place as well and tell him that you were getting worried about the time it has taken to get your money. If he is unwilling to pay you still, I would consider the smal claims route. You could also go to the cabin and wait him out on a weekend he is renting to others. Maybe pickit the joint.

I think the registered letter is a good idea as well maybe a lawyer letterhead.

chudson
02-06-2007, 05:00 PM
"Hey Moose, Rocco.....help the "cabin rental guy" find his wallet" comes to mind:cool: (from Caddyshack)

That's sure what you'd like to do^^^, same thing happened with our daughter at school. $300 deposit cleaned the heck out of the apt. ended up getting half back. Hindsight says take pictures next time and we will. But meanwhile...."Hey Moose, Rocco"....................:mad:

Byrdman
02-06-2007, 05:39 PM
When I was in college we knew we were not getting any money back, so the last night after we would move out, we would throw a kegger and leave the place in a condition that would take more than the security deposit to fix up. I suggest you rent it again for another Bachelor party and let things get out of hand...

Andyg
02-06-2007, 05:43 PM
I think it's 21 days in WI. Something tells me that if he doesn't respond in writing within 21 days with OR without the security deposit, you are able to sue for double the amount. I'm not an attorney so please don't quote me...I'm sure there are web sites that will be able to shed some light if this is considered a renters/tenant situation.

Barefoot,
You are right that it is 21 days in WI. However I don't know if it applies to vacation rental security deposits. I haven't found any other stautes that would apply besides that one.

I don't know that I want to confront him in person. He lives in Chicago and that is about a 2 hr drive for me. Even if I did confront him in person I doubt he would pay me on the spot if he is refusing to even talk to me via the phone or email.

I did talk to my credit card company and they started a charge dispute with the guy for my $500 security deposit. I will see where that goes.

rodltg2
02-06-2007, 05:49 PM
When I was in college we knew we were not getting any money back, so the last night after we would move out, we would throw a kegger and leave the place in a condition that would take more than the security deposit to fix up. I suggest you rent it again for another Bachelor party and let things get out of hand...


yep, in college we called a move in fee, not a deposit. never once did i get my deposit back from the many apts. i rented during college. and most the time the place was left fine. but the managment companies knew that they could take advantage of college students. plus students dont always have the resources to fight it, unless parent sgot involved...

Andyg
02-06-2007, 05:54 PM
yep, in college we called a move in fee, not a deposit. never once did i get my deposit back from the many apts. i rented during college. and most the time the place was left fine. but the managment companies knew that they could take advantage of college students. plus students dont always have the resources to fight it, unless parent sgot involved...

I had a landlord in college that said we owed him something like $1200 in addition to the security deposit we paid. He said we destroyed the carpet and had to replace it at our cost. The judge ruled that while the carpet may have been stained the carpet was original to the 12 year old house and therefor was only worth about $200. The judge deducted $200 from our deposit then refunded the remainder of it times 3 for a total of about $1700.

Ric
02-06-2007, 06:26 PM
Barefoot,
You are right that it is 21 days in WI. However I don't know if it applies to vacation rental security deposits. I haven't found any other stautes that would apply besides that one.

I don't know that I want to confront him in person. He lives in Chicago and that is about a 2 hr drive for me. Even if I did confront him in person I doubt he would pay me on the spot if he is refusing to even talk to me via the phone or email.

I did talk to my credit card company and they started a charge dispute with the guy for my $500 security deposit. I will see where that goes. the dispute on the credit card is a good avenue. Merchants don't like to get chargebacks. They can affect the discount rate he gets based on his chargeback history.

TX.X-30 fan
02-06-2007, 07:15 PM
Find the sewer clean-out. 80lb concrete.:D :D :D





Ya'll ever notice how expensive plumbers are these days?????

André
02-06-2007, 07:19 PM
Post his adress here.I'm sure someone could pay him a visit!

peason
02-06-2007, 07:20 PM
Hey Erk lives in Chi-town - how about Erk track this guy down!

André
02-06-2007, 07:23 PM
Let's ask BriEOD to send him a box...;)

wiltok
02-06-2007, 07:51 PM
I live in Chicago - where does this guy live?

Andyg
02-06-2007, 08:17 PM
You would think since the guy is a realitor in Chicago he would want to protect his repuation. I am thinking about contacting his employer after all this is done to let them know he is running a rental buisness out of his work office.

jimmer2880
02-07-2007, 07:44 AM
You would think since the guy is a realitor in Chicago he would want to protect his repuation. I am thinking about contacting his employer after all this is done to let them know he is running a rental buisness out of his work office.

That's a good thing to do... I would suspect the realtor has non-compete clauses everywhere. This sounds rather competitive to me :)

Andyg
02-13-2007, 08:33 PM
Well the guy still hasn't paid. I sent him a letter explaining that if I don't receive my money by today that I will sue him in small claims court.

One of the TMC members stopped by his reality office and must have struck a nerve with the guy who owes me the security deposit. The guy emailed me twice since then and called once. I returned his phone calls and emails and still no money. He never actually mentioned that he would be paying me.

I included a copy of the last email I sent him below. I will be curious to see if he even responds now or if he his hoping somehow he can get away with taking my $500. If you are interested I also posted a link to his real estate website and the cabin he rents.

Cabin_Website (http://www.lakerentals.com/vacation-rental/12671)
Real_Estate_Website (http://www.rogersparkagent.com/content.aspx)


Email
February 13th has come and I did not receive a check for the $500 security deposit you owe me. A phone call and leaving a message today and an email that said nothing of actually sending me any money does not constitute paying the debt. I returned your phone call and email within 30 minutes and never heard back from you. I will start legal proceedings on the February 15th or 16th in Baraboo, WI to recover my security deposit. I will sue you for triple the security deposit as Wisconsin law allows in addition to filing fees and appropriate legal representation. I will be completing the online review of your cabin including the fact that I have not received my security deposit after 2 1/2 months of waiting.

I will be informing the Remax Reality Office Manager that Remax might be included in this lawsuit as it appears that your cabin rental buisness is a division of Remax Reality based on the useage of your work phone and email address for all communications

Thank You

milkmania
02-13-2007, 08:44 PM
Well the guy still hasn't paid. I sent him a letter explaining that if I don't receive my money by today that I will sue him in small claims court.

One of the TMC members stopped by his reality office and must have struck a nerve with the guy who owes me the security deposit. The guy emailed me twice since then and called once. I returned his phone calls and emails and still no money. He never actually mentioned that he would be paying me.

I included a copy of the last email I sent him below. I will be curious to see if he even responds now or if he his hoping somehow he can get away with taking my $500. If you are interested I also posted a link to his real estate website and the cabin he rents.

Cabin_Website (http://www.lakerentals.com/vacation-rental/12671)
Real_Estate_Website (http://www.rogersparkagent.com/content.aspx)


Email
February 13th has come and I did not receive a check for the $500 security deposit you owe me. A phone call and leaving a message today and an email that said nothing of actually sending me any money does not constitute paying the debt. I returned your phone call and email within 30 minutes and never heard back from you. I will start legal proceedings on the February 15th or 16th in Baraboo, WI to recover my security deposit. I will sue you for triple the security deposit as Wisconsin law allows in addition to filing fees and appropriate legal representation. I will be completing the online review of your cabin including the fact that I have not received my security deposit after 2 1/2 months of waiting.

I will be informing the Remax Reality Office Manager that Remax might be included in this lawsuit as it appears that your cabin rental buisness is a division of Remax Reality based on the useage of your work phone and email address for all communications

Thank You



whoo hoo!!! there's an extra kicker!;)

and don't forget to fill out his feedback on the cabin website!

Andyg
02-13-2007, 08:52 PM
whoo hoo!!! there's an extra kicker!;)

and don't forget to fill out his feedback on the cabin website!

Ya I figured that line might get his attention. I planned on doing putting the review on his cabin website once my father-in-law reviews my review. He is a lawyer and I want to make sure I don't say anything that can get me in trouble. I tend to stick to just the facts and leave the name calling for the when I am talking about him on the TMC site.

BriEOD
02-13-2007, 08:55 PM
You try calling the local cops?

Maristar210
02-13-2007, 08:57 PM
I sent this to them:

Will you refund the security deposit as described? I hear you have kept it with previous tenants?

If that is not the case please explain. Your location is being circiled on the internet as a place that keeps the security deposit in some cases even if the facility is left in good condition. Would you care to comment on this please?

Andyg
02-13-2007, 08:59 PM
I sent this to them:

Will you refund the security deposit as described? I hear you have kept it with previous tenants?

If that is not the case please explain. Your location is being circiled on the internet as a place that keeps the security deposit in some cases even if the facility is left in good condition. Would you care to comment on this please?

That is awesome. I will be curious to see his repsonse.

Maristar210
02-13-2007, 09:00 PM
You try calling the local cops?


Now Bri- You know what an effect the unmarkeds can have if they show up at a locale...

Hey bruther take care of another and roll 'em up to Wisconsin!!!!

Andyg
02-13-2007, 09:00 PM
You try calling the local cops?

I don't know that the local cops can do anything since this is technically a contract dispute issue.

Maristar210
02-13-2007, 09:01 PM
That is awesome. I will be curious to see his repsonse.

Helpin you out Andy. I'll let you know if he has the balls to respond...

Steve

Hoosier Bob
02-13-2007, 09:02 PM
I have had one bachelor party and attended many. If all that was lost was a $500.00 deposit you are way ahead of the game! I almost had to pay for a 1998 Lincoln TC, friends bail and then was married for 10 years! Take the five and put it on freedom!:o

PS If you want to know about the others, I have time. I will say in my experience and as long as no one spent any major time in jail $500 is a deal. Of course maybe the bachelor party in question was more on the legal side?

milkmania
02-13-2007, 09:07 PM
I have had one bachelor party and attended many. If all that was lost was a $500.00 deposit you are way ahead of the game! I almost had to pay for a 1998 Lincoln TC, friends bail and then was married for 10 years! Take the five and put it on freedom!:o

PS If you want to know about the others, I have time. I will say in my experience and as long as no one spent any major time in jail $500 is a deal. Of course maybe the bachelor party in question was more on the legal side?

man......

I'm sure under the right circumstances...

You Would Kiss& Tell!!!!:uglyhamme

Andyg
02-13-2007, 09:10 PM
I have had one bachelor party and attended many. If all that was lost was a $500.00 deposit you are way ahead of the game! I almost had to pay for a 1998 Lincoln TC, friends bail and then was married for 10 years! Take the five and put it on freedom!:o

PS If you want to know about the others, I have time. I will say in my experience and as long as no one spent any major time in jail $500 is a deal. Of course maybe the bachelor party in question was more on the legal side?

I would have to agree with you that coming out only down $500 isn't bad. The problem I have is how it came about. I would have felt better if I trashed the placce and lost $500, at least then I would have gotten my moneys worth.

PendO
02-13-2007, 09:12 PM
I think around here there's a statutory time frame for a landlord to get a renter's security deposit back (30 days if memory serves). Don't know what the rules are up there.

IF he is a "Realtor" (member of the NAR) you could try and file an ethical complaint with the local or state board ... not sure how far it would get, but it will waste his time ... if someone is going to keep 500 of mine I will get 500 of value or cause the at least 500 in headaches (figuratively speaking)

And, we should all just send him emails and send his brokerage firm emails and let them know the negative side of word of mouth ...

Hoosier Bob
02-13-2007, 09:12 PM
So all you need to do is go back and trash the place! Let me know when and we all can go! I feel a party coming on! I will put it in my name this time!;)

Andyg
02-13-2007, 09:54 PM
This is the email I just sent his boss.


I rented Mark's cabin near Wisconsin Dells the first weekend in December. I paid a $500 security deposit and he still has not refunded me the deposit as of Feb 13. He ignored all communications with me for nearly two months. That is until last Saturday when I had a friend stop by your office to ask him where my security deposit was. Mark has chosen to make this difficult by refusing to pay me the security deposit or communicate as to why it is taking so long. He left me with no choice but to start legal proceedings against him for the security deposit. I sent him an emaill today ( Feb 13th) explaining that I will be filing the lawsuit on Feb 15th or 16th.

Now why would you care about this? He used his remax.net email address via Paypal to collect the payment for the rental fees and the security deposit and signed all of his emails with his Remax work signature. He also uses his Remax answering service for all phone communications. As much as I hate to say this it makes me believe that Remax and your office has an affiliation with the rental of this cabin and the money that is owed me. Since my fees were paid to a Remax.net email address I believe that links your office to this. I have kept records of all of this so if you would like copies I can forward them to you.

I understand how reputation in the real estate business is very important. I would not want someone of Mark’s character representing my business if the way he has treated me is any reflection of how he treats his other clients. I am also contemplating filing an ethical complaint with the local or state board for realtors based on the actions of Mark.

If you have any questions or would like to discuss this further you can contact me via email or on my cell phone, both of which I provide as part of this submission.


Thank You

Hoosier Bob
02-13-2007, 09:55 PM
I like that! We can still go back right? :o This is the email I just sent his boss.


I rented Mark's cabin near Wisconsin Dells the first weekend in December. I paid a $500 security deposit and he still has not refunded me the deposit as of Feb 13. He ignored all communications with me for nearly two months. That is until last Saturday when I had a friend stop by your office to ask him where my security deposit was. Mark has chosen to make this difficult by refusing to pay me the security deposit or communicate as to why it is taking so long. He left me with no choice but to start legal proceedings against him for the security deposit. I sent him an emaill today ( Feb 13th) explaining that I will be filing the lawsuit on Feb 15th or 16th.

Now why would you care about this? He used his remax.net email address via Paypal to collect the payment for the rental fees and the security deposit and signed all of his emails with his Remax work signature. He also uses his Remax answering service for all phone communications. As much as I hate to say this it makes me believe that Remax and your office has an affiliation with the rental of this cabin and the money that is owed me. Since my fees were paid to a Remax.net email address I believe that links your office to this. I have kept records of all of this so if you would like copies I can forward them to you.

I understand how reputation in the real estate business is very important. I would not want someone of Mark’s character representing my business if the way he has treated me is any reflection of how he treats his other clients. I am also contemplating filing an ethical complaint with the local or state board for realtors based on the actions of Mark.

If you have any questions or would like to discuss this further you can contact me via email or on my cell phone, both of which I provide as part of this submission.


Thank You

Andyg
02-13-2007, 10:10 PM
I like that! We can still go back right? :o

He has his own security system and that is It is so hard to find the place that you need to leave a trail of bread crumbs to find your way back. Not only did half the guys get lost getting there so did the "entertainment."

lakesnake
02-14-2007, 05:49 AM
If you do take end up taking it to small claims, I would use your father-in-law, have him charge you a large "chunk of change" and in your suit ask for the realtor(or this mark guy) to cover your attorney's fees in the event of you winning. If you lose, your father-in-law can retract his fees and you're out the $500. If you win, split the extra money with him.

One thing I will do when renting in the future is take a digital camera and a calendar and take pictures of everything in the unit. Then after your rental period, go back and take pics of the same thing, showing you left things as they were or better than before. In the case of the bachelor party, designate the fella you think will be the least intoxicated or least love-struck on twin-strippers to take the pictures. Before digital cameras it was too expensive to take numerous pictures you may never use. But with a digital camera it's cheap, and it may save you a ton of money on your car insurance.

jimmer2880
02-14-2007, 08:44 AM
:popcorn:

This is really getting good.

(off to send some emails :) )

JimN
02-14-2007, 08:54 AM
If you paid through PayPal, contact them. If you paid with a credit card, dispute the charges. Have a lawyer send a letter by registered mail. If he receives it himself, you'll know he's a reap person. If it's refused, it may have been someone using his name. Or, hire an investigator to go there and see what he looks like/take photos. You can do this, too, by acting like someone who's interested in a property he has listed. Get his card, make him think you want him to contact you and go after him like a donkey eating a waffle!

Or, maybe the Team Talk people in the area can pay him a late-night visit.

Ric
02-14-2007, 09:02 AM
he has a rainbow thing on his webpage, maybe he doesn't approve of the fact that you boys had girls over there

milkmania
02-14-2007, 09:25 AM
he has a rainbow thing on his webpage, maybe he doesn't approve of the fact that you boys had girls over therehttp://www.bhammonster.com/rimshot.gif

kjohnson
02-14-2007, 09:32 AM
Did you pay with a credit card. If yes, call them, maybe they can help.

Andyg
02-14-2007, 10:47 AM
Did you pay with a credit card. If yes, call them, maybe they can help.

I already started the charge back with my credit card company.

Andyg
02-14-2007, 10:54 AM
If you paid through PayPal, contact them. If you paid with a credit card, dispute the charges. Have a lawyer send a letter by registered mail. If he receives it himself, you'll know he's a reap person. If it's refused, it may have been someone using his name. Or, hire an investigator to go there and see what he looks like/take photos. You can do this, too, by acting like someone who's interested in a property he has listed. Get his card, make him think you want him to contact you and go after him like a donkey eating a waffle!

Or, maybe the Team Talk people in the area can pay him a late-night visit.

Paypal actually doesn't cover buyers in these types of situtations. Here is what they cover directly from their website. Since I didn't buy a tangible item and also it has been probably 80 days since I made the payment.

You must send payment to the PayPal account associated with the eBay listing
You purchased a tangible item
Your claim must be filed within 45 days of payment
You may only file one claim per PayPal payment

Andyg
02-14-2007, 10:58 AM
Well I got another call from him this morning and I tell you I just don't get this guy.

He wanted me to initiate a chargeback via my credit card to collect the money. While I have already done that I have to fill out about 5 pages of paperwork and follow up with the credit card company to get this done. Which I will do if I have to. So I explained to him that is not an acceptable form of payment as it makes more work for me. Not to mention is sounds to me like he is trying to scam the credit card company or paypal somehow by doing this. So supposedly he is mailing me a check today. I will let you know how high it bounces once I try and deposit it.

milkmania
02-14-2007, 11:03 AM
Well I got another call from him this morning and I tell you I just don't get this guy.

He wanted me to initiate a chargeback via my credit card to collect the money. While I have already done that I have to fill out about 5 pages of paperwork and follow up with the credit card company to get this done. Which I will do if I have to. So I explained to him that is not an acceptable form of payment as it makes more work for me. Not to mention is sounds to me like he is trying to scam the credit card company or paypal somehow by doing this. So supposedly he is mailing me a check today. I will let you know how high it bounces once I try and deposit it.



two words.....

LouisvilleSlugger & Kneecaps:D

Ric
02-14-2007, 01:08 PM
andy it sounds as though this fella thinks he has bigger fish to fry...

it always happens (he will learn) that it's the small deals that end up biting you in theass

he shoulda just written you a check and let it go
by the time the people here and you FIL and the cc company get through with him, he will realize it.

sutfolut
02-14-2007, 11:31 PM
I would just do a charge back with your credit card. I would charge back the entire amount of the room not just the deposit. It is the responsibility of the merchant to prove charges and if he cannot produce paper work then you dont have to pay for the room.

michael freeman
02-15-2007, 06:32 AM
Maybe if you do a charge back he doesn't have to pay the 3-4% charge the cc company charges for their services. (i.e., all this was for $20 bucks).

Ric
02-15-2007, 08:03 AM
Maybe if you do a charge back he doesn't have to pay the 3-4% charge the cc company charges for their services. (i.e., all this was for $20 bucks). I don't follow the angle here:confused:

Andyg
02-23-2007, 06:41 PM
Well I finally got the check from him today. It took another nasty email to his boss threatening to sue the Reality Office to get him to actually mail it. He said he would mail it on the 15th. I sent him a nasty email on the 20th and one to his boss the same day. I checked the postmark on the envelope and it was the 21st. Well I am half way there, now I will keep my fingers crossed in hopes that his business check doesn't bounce.

M-Funf
02-23-2007, 06:56 PM
Did he pay interest on the $500 he's been holding for this long past the time it was due?

Maristar210
02-23-2007, 08:21 PM
Did he pay interest on the $500 he's been holding for this long past the time it was due?

Yeah right, he's lucky to get his orginal amount plus the interest would not amount too much on $500. JUNO?

Slinkyredfoot
02-23-2007, 08:22 PM
Hey how bout buying us all a drink and toast to the fact you got your dinero back...Here is to everyone and thanks Ag for pickin up the tab!!!

:toast: :toast: :toast:

WTRSK1R
02-23-2007, 09:52 PM
Andy,
See if the credit card company still processes the charge back. That would serve him right for all the hassel.

JimN
02-24-2007, 10:19 AM
Andy- if their bank has a branch near you, cash it there. IIRC, they have to honor a check from their customers, even if the account is dry. If it's dry when you try to cash it, they'll have to pay the extra fees and if it's closed, you can go after them for "Theft by Fraud".

Andyg
02-24-2007, 12:39 PM
I know this great cabin near Wisconsin Dells that we can have a raging party at! The owner I am sure won't even know we were there until after we have gone.

JimN,
Thanks for the info, I will definetly cash it at the bank it is written from.

Andyg
02-24-2007, 12:41 PM
Andy,
See if the credit card company still processes the charge back. That would serve him right for all the hassel.

As much as I would like to screw this guy over, the last thing I need is some kind of legal trouble for trying to defraud my credit card company.

Andyg
02-24-2007, 12:46 PM
I live in Chicago - where does this guy live?

A big thanks goes out to wiltok for being my muscle down in Chi-Town. I don't think this guy would have ever paid me until wiltok paid his office a visit a couple of weeks ago. I got a call and an email from the guy who owed me money within 2 hrs of wiltok stopping by his office. Wiltok is also the one that got me the information on his boss, which I am sure helped considerably.

Off to the bank to cash my check. I will buy everyone a drink tonight at my local bar, The Silver Fox. Odds of anyone actually making it are about zero as the blizzard of the year rolls in. Wiltok I owe you a couple!

wiltok
02-24-2007, 08:18 PM
Andy,

I'm glad that bas*#$# sent you the money. All's well that ends well!!!

-Keith

milkmania
02-24-2007, 09:31 PM
Andy,

I'm glad that bas*#$# sent you the money. All's well that ends well!!!

-Keith

now that we know who visited the guy....

tell us more..................
was he a slimeball from first impression, or a schmuck just screwing up?

Andyg
02-24-2007, 10:15 PM
now that we know who visited the guy....

tell us more..................
was he a slimeball from first impression, or a schmuck just screwing up?

Milk,
Wiltok didn't have the pleasure to meet the scum bag. He only talked to his coworker. From what I hear Wiltok put on an impressive show. Especially when he backed down the pitbull that wouldn't leave him alone while he was in the office.

milkmania
02-24-2007, 10:54 PM
Milk,
Wiltok didn't have the please to meet the scum bag. He only talked to his coworker. From what I here Wiltok put on an impressive show. Especially when he backed down the pitbull that wouldn't leave him alone while he was in the office.:woohoo::worthy:

jimmer2880
02-25-2007, 08:08 AM
Glad you finally got your $$$'s back. Sounds like a real slimeball.