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Smitty
01-07-2005, 02:50 PM
Leroy, I hope your boat was out of the water before this happened. Happened at Lake Monroe in Indiana. Dock collapsed under 20" of snow 2 weeks ago.

Mag_Red
01-07-2005, 03:00 PM
Leroy, I hope your boat was out of the water before this happened. Happened at Lake Monroe in Indiana. Dock collapsed under 20" of snow 2 weeks ago. :eek: During the storm last month I was thinking the same thing...........those roofs aren't designed for that sort of load. :(

OhioProstar
01-07-2005, 03:11 PM
Smitty,
How is Monroe? I have a friend in Colombus, IN that keeps telling me that we need to head up there.

milkmania
01-07-2005, 04:04 PM
Leroy, I hope your boat was out of the water before this happened. Happened at Lake Monroe in Indiana. Dock collapsed under 20" of snow 2 weeks ago. here's one story I found relating to it
http://www.indystar.com/articles/0/205319-6950-102.html

I disagree with the manager saying it was caused by an act of God. and they had no control over it. True, the snow was truly an act of God......but, that's what engineers get paid the big bucks for!

Leroy
01-07-2005, 04:25 PM
Thanks for the concern, my mother in law called the day it happened as she saw the news in Evansville. I called the marina and they called later in the day to tell me nothing happened on A dock where I am at it was D mostly and some at I think J, where the bigger boats where (and bigger roofs). As noted in the article during the holidays at off season they were struggling to call people in to work on this I think.

Need to drive down and see if there is any damage left.

Monroe is a nice lake, however there are no fingers you can ski so you ski the main lake. Ski early in the morning or at dusk or weekdays. Weekends during the day is very crowded. You can idle into fingers and park which a lot of people do. They have Inn of Four Winds hotel you can stay at which is rustic but nice. Paynetown is a good campground.

jsonova99
01-07-2005, 04:25 PM
engineers don't get paid that big, so we're entitled to a mistake here and there. :uglyhamme

Leroy
01-07-2005, 04:34 PM
JS; Just like an engineer to quickly take the blame! (I'm one also). Maybe they weren't following procedures on clearing off the roof? The ~22 inches of snow is very rare for there, and probably was heavy snow, not the light fluffy stuff.

milkmania
01-07-2005, 04:36 PM
engineers don't get paid that big, so we're entitled to a mistake here and there. :uglyhamme
either way....when the engineers puts his certification on the plans, he;s putting his ballz on the line too.....I would think.:D

probably a ton of loopholes, like most everything else.:purplaugh

milkmania
01-07-2005, 04:41 PM
I'm not trying to upset any engineers...

I just know that when I build a roof my my personal use, if it says use two beams here, I use three beams there. I tend to overkill anything I touch.

Very true, that there was probably exceptional snowfall, but that's where the cushion should be figured in.

surely, Indiana's snowload rating are much much more than Oklahoma's.

again, didn't tend to offend:)

Smitty
01-07-2005, 04:42 PM
Glad everything is OK Leroy. Ohioprostar, I would check out Lake Lemon first, especially if your considering skiing. Monroe is big and busy. I was down there once this past summer in my 230 Maristar and thought I was going to get swallowed up. I hear its better during the week days (per Leroy). Lake Lemon is just a few miles off Rt.46 when you come in SE of B-town.

The sad thing about this collapse is that its not the first time it happened. It happened previously about 10 years ago. Same problem, too much snow. What is even sadder is that the marina director won't take any responsibility because its an "Act of God."

Professor
01-07-2005, 04:47 PM
I haven't seen any of the "insurance" guys offering their advice yet. (had to get the insurance guys in this too).

sfitzgerald351
01-07-2005, 05:39 PM
Would a roof over a dock even be rated for a snow load? I can't imagine there is much in the way of specifications in the building code about this and I imagine that they simply built the roof as they would any other roof. Probably forgot that with the wind, unstable docks, and the snow load that they had no shear strength to prevent the whole roof from shifting over and just collapsing the posts. From what I could tell in the little picture the roof was still basically in one piece, it just shifted over on the posts and the couldn't resist the sideways motion and failed. My guess is that the same structure on solid ground might not have failed.

dmac
01-07-2005, 05:59 PM
...Oh, I haven't seen any of the "insurance" guys offering their advice yet. (had to get the insurance guys in this too).Speaking from the insurance side, there are several things to look at. Since this is not the first time this has happened (per Smitty), was the new structure engineered and built with this possibility in mind? I would think that it was. So, that would take liability off of the Marina.

If on the other hand there was deterioration and an absence of routine maintenance on the part of the marina that contributed to this, then there is potential liability.

Finally, what does the contract between the lessor and lessee say about damage to stored property? Is there a contractual obligation to the boat owner who sustains damage. Probably not.

Interesting Claim.

jsonova99
01-08-2005, 12:52 AM
I'm happy to say that as an electrical engineer, I don't have to worry about putting a stamp on stuctural designs, that's a tough job having to account for mother nature in your design.

Leroy
01-08-2005, 01:38 AM
JS; I agree, as fellow BSEE, I'm sure the GFI's clicked off!

Some background as I know it. The marina is pretty old, but came under new owner ship couple of years ago. The new owner is replacing the docks year by year along with other improvements, and on dock A I am on a new dock. The old docks are old I want to say ~20 years old.

A 40' wide section of 40' roof with 22 inches of snow (~2 inches of equivalent water) would have: 40' X 12" X 40' X 12" X 2" would be 460800 cubic inches of water. One cubic inch of water = 0.0043 gallons of water or 1981.44 gallons of water times 8.34 pounds per gallon is 16525 pounds or 8.26 tons on the roof. Unless I screwed up, that is a lot of weight per 40' section of roof!

milkmania
01-08-2005, 03:20 PM
just curious as to what $$$ amount damage disclosed so far. anyone heard?

would it be safe to say that a small to medium sized marina could see several millions of dollars in damage in case of total loss?

Smitty
01-08-2005, 04:51 PM
I have not heard or seen a $ amount but I have read that at least 2 house boats and a few cruisers were sunk. :noface:

Leroy
01-09-2005, 01:37 AM
Tomorrow or early in the week I'm going to drive down and have a look and talk with the folks. What a mess a big boat full of water now. Really feel for them. I want to make sure they are putting the ice eater near my boat like they said they would! I think that shot is taken from the ramp I walk down but turn right for my boat.

In my eyes this is a pretty big marina, I think it is A through J docks. My dock has ~90 slips. I feel a slip rental increase coming.

phecksel
01-10-2005, 12:43 PM
JS; I agree, as fellow BSEE, I'm sure the GFI's clicked off!



Interesting story about GFI's. I had installed a used hot tub, new motors, controller, etc. I'm trying to figure out why I can't get one pump to pump, and I put my hand on the motor case to feel for vibration. I received an unexpected tingle. GFI in the controller is the same brand as the GFI breaker in the box. I'm on the phone to the breaker company who says they will call me back in a few minutes. Suddenly I'm talking to a engineering VP, engineering manager, and two unknown titles (lawyers?). After about ten minutes of conversation the VP tells the other two they didn't need their help anymore. Turns out the motor had a slight short that prevented it from running, but was also so slight it did not exceed the threshold value to blow the breakers. Learned more about GFI's then any Mechanical Engineer should ever have to learn :)