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View Full Version : too late for fuel stabil?


lassy
01-23-2007, 08:24 AM
so i live down here in georgia, and i haven't had to "winterize" the boat necessarily for the entire winter, just drain the block every now and then when it freezes. i've been taking the boat out every 2-3 weeks, but i haven't had to refill it in some time. i've read that gas breaks down after two weeks, but the boat hasn't been running bad when i've taken it out. should i go ahead and try to run off the remaining 1/4 of a tank and then thrown some fuel stabil in about half a tank and let it run through some of it?

it's been one of those things that i've just forgotten to do........

chudson
01-23-2007, 08:36 AM
I'm not an expert on fuel destabilizing but I think you run it enuff not to worry about it. But just to make yourself feel better, don't run off the 1/4 tank just put in the stabile and bring it up to 3/4 full so when weather warms up fuel won't expand and run over!!! :twocents:

Jesus_Freak
01-23-2007, 09:22 AM
I'm not an expert on fuel destabilizing but I think you run it enuff not to worry about it. But just to make yourself feel better, don't run off the 1/4 tank just put in the stabile and bring it up to 3/4 full so when weather warms up fuel won't expand and run over!!! :twocents:

I am not certain about this, but I propose fuel density doesnt change that much from 30°F to 100°F. For example the density of liquids like octane, heptane, ethanol, and water only decrease 4 - 5% over this range. You bring up a great point, but 1/4 tank might be too much of a buffer.:) But then again...how accurate are our fuel gauges?

EDIT: I found once that temperature makes a huge difference if the tank is so full (or the boat is cocked) that the vent line contains fuel. This effectively seals off the fuel tank. The vapors expand strongly with increasing temperature, raising the pressure in the tank, and spraying out fuel from the vent. Big mess...

east tx skier
01-23-2007, 10:48 AM
Sounds like you've been running it enough. If it were me, I'd just fill the rest with 93 octane to bring up the overall octane for the layup and add stabil to the full tank. I'm no expert on this either though.

Kevin 89MC
01-23-2007, 11:01 AM
You're probably fine. I've heard that gas does start to lose octane rating and break down in ~1 month, but I've had gas sit longer and be OK. I'd pour in either Sta-bil or Sea Foam, then fill up the tank with fresh gas. I run one or the other in my boat almost all the time, unless I know I'll burn through a full tank in less than a month, which sadly is not too common fo me. I usually use Sea Foam more regularly, and Sta-bil at the last tankful in the fall.
Good luck.

Chief
01-23-2007, 11:22 AM
Your fine just top off with some good stuff.

Workin' 4 Toys
01-23-2007, 11:49 AM
Seafoam it.....or use stabil if that's what you have laying around....

It's not too late....

Ric
01-23-2007, 11:53 AM
I am not promoting mistreatment of your boat but I have a lawnmower that has not been started in over a year(nor have I given it more than a second glance as far as maintenance) I guarantee it starts on the first pull next time I want to use it..... FWIW I have never knowingly had a stale fuel problem.... your results may vary

Workin' 4 Toys
01-23-2007, 11:57 AM
I am not promoting mistreatment of your boat but I have a lawnmower that has not been started in over a year(nor have I given it more than a second glance as far as maintenance) I guarantee it starts on the first pull next time I want to use it..... FWIW I have never knowingly had a stale fuel problem.... your results may vary
Well, that's the first time I've heard you compare proper maintenance between a MC and lawnmower....Good job... I agree, I would not stabil your lawnmower either.8p Although Mine gets it.:D

Ric
01-23-2007, 12:00 PM
I figure any neglect should first be tested on items such as lawnmowers (and individuals you don't care about)

Workin' 4 Toys
01-23-2007, 12:07 PM
I figure any neglect should first be tested on items such as lawnmowers (and individuals you don't care about)
Seafoam/stabil goes in my...Push and/or riding mowers, generator, weedwackers, chainsaws, snowmobiles, boat, motorcycles, or anything that doesn't run in a 30 day period for at minimum a warm up cycle.
Between that an running Amsoil in the 2 strokes I have no fuel or oil catastrophic engine related failure to report.:D Your results may vary......:rolleyes:

Ric
01-23-2007, 12:17 PM
Seafoam goes in my...Push and/or riding mowers, generator, weedwackers, chainsaws, snowmobiles, boat, motorcycles, or anything that doesn't run in a 30 day period for at minimum a warm up cycle.
Between that an running Amsoil in the 2 strokes I have no fuel or oil catastrophic engine related failure to report.:D Your results may vary......:rolleyes: I dont do any of that stuff and I too have no catastrophic engine failures to report.... maybe you are wasting your time and money?




YEEHAWWWWWWWW the wintertime snakeoil debate is ON
sorry for the threadjack guys!






.

Workin' 4 Toys
01-23-2007, 12:26 PM
I dont do any of that stuff and I too have no catastrophic engine failures to report.... maybe you are wasting your time and money?


YEEHAWWWWWWWW the wintertime snakeoil debate is ON
sorry for the threadjack guys!
.
Well, since you mentioned it:rolleyes: ....I have often wondered what the shelf life of fuel additives are...So I use what I buy assuming they too have a use by date of some sort. And if it takes one less pull or crank to get something started, I am time and money ahead...

I am a believer in Diesel fuel additives as well....But never used seafoam for that.
And I use Marvels mystery oil for storage in my nitromethane powered vehicles..

east tx skier
01-23-2007, 12:29 PM
Well, that's the first time I've heard you compare proper maintenance between a MC and lawnmower....Good job... I agree, I would not stabil your lawnmower either.8p Although Mine gets it.:D

Mine gets it, too.

lassy
01-23-2007, 12:42 PM
alright........i guess i'll go get some fuel stabil. and empty it into a full tank of 93......maybe i'll take a quick set too if it's not too cold

TMCNo1
01-23-2007, 01:47 PM
I use it in my 9 year old John Deere,

TMCNo1
01-23-2007, 01:49 PM
With a Mastercraft keychain,

TMCNo1
01-23-2007, 01:51 PM
What can I say,

Maristar210
01-23-2007, 02:46 PM
I restore and repair motorcycles and although I cannot necessarily explain it to you scientifically I can tell you stagnant fuel is an issue. (duh right?)

Eventually is turns to varnish and crates all sorts of issues in carbuerated engines as you know. In fuel injected engines there is no needle jet or seat to clog with junk fuel so this is almost never an issue unless stored for a very long time.

I would preach the run the carb out of gas theory so the jet, needle and seat do not get clogged with old fuel. As far as the tank is concerned, this is much less of an issue. Tanks do not typically clog, carbs do. That's why Shiela Ric can start his lawnmower with one year old gas in it, to a degree.

I have learned over the years that higher octane fuel 93/94 actually deteriorates at a faster rate that regular 89 octane. While many often think they should add premium and sta-bil to thier final tank of the season they should actually fill it as normal and add your stabilizer as required.

I would aslo comment that in some fuel tanks condensation generated from the increase and decrease in temperature can also create watered down fuel as supplied by the humidity via the fuel vent. The actual amount of water would be dependant upon the variables associated with the tank, it's contents and quantities.

My rule of thumb with Motorcycles, which are far less forgiving than our luxurious tow boats is to add regular 89 octane fuel and stabilizer until the fuel tank is completely full. Start the motor for a three to five minutes in normal conditions to allow the fuel stabilizer to circulate to the area is is intended to protect and store it confindently.

I have used this procedure the last five years or so after my old buddy Eddie Sisneros fianally set me straight and have had zero problems on any vehicle including motorcycles stored and ridden only once or twice a year.

Winterization is a bit of a dealer income generating machine derived by the unknown and unaware boat owner IMO.

I too am no expert but have had real world failures and sucesses driven from my technique used or lack thereof.

Steve

Ric
01-23-2007, 04:19 PM
Snake oil or not, I am dropping in the nearest auto parts on the way home and will stabil the mc when I get home tonite whether she needs it or not

Ric
01-23-2007, 04:20 PM
I swear I'd top off the 197 tank more religiously if MC could (would) stop the fuel belch on the 197 tank filler line

Maristar210
01-23-2007, 04:25 PM
I swear I'd top off the 197 tank more religiously if MC could (would) stop the fuel belch on the 197 tank filler line

Ric

Remove your access cushion or port, watch it fill and do so slowly. I have done this and actually filled it over capacity on a day I knew I would burn a lot of fuel. FWIW. I know your smart already:rolleyes: :D

Ric
01-23-2007, 04:28 PM
I did have a couple stand on the starbord platform this summer for an in-the-water fillup but honestly, should I have to even effen think about whether or not gas is going to shoot out all over me and the interior and the precious mother earth when I am filling a late model superboat? I say no!

PendO
01-23-2007, 04:30 PM
I swear I'd top off the 197 tank more religiously if MC could (would) stop the fuel belch on the 197 tank filler line

grrrrrrrrrrrreat ... you can't put it on a trailer, make your chevy turn, or fill your boats gas tank ... :)



I hear you on trying to fill the tank full ... wasted a t-shirt trying to wipe up the mess at the pump last year ... I have heard gasoline does wonders for a new gel coat and stickers:(

Ric
01-23-2007, 04:37 PM
yep, better yet, my burp aims riggggght at that corner of the backseat and the hatch lid........... niccccce! nah, it's not a fire hazard honey... keep the kids over there for awhile as I dry out the boat :rolleyes:

PendO
01-23-2007, 04:45 PM
yep, better yet, my burp aims riggggght at that corner of the backseat and the hatch lid........... niccccce! nah, it's not a fire hazard honey... keep the kids over there for awhile as I dry out the boat :rolleyes:

maybee you could send Greg a PM?

Chief
01-23-2007, 04:46 PM
I use it in my 9 year old John Deere,

I can die now, I have seen everything. Lawnmower with flames. :)

Ric
01-23-2007, 04:48 PM
maybee you could send Greg a PM? :noface: .

C36
01-23-2007, 06:55 PM
I dont do any of that stuff and I too have no catastrophic engine failures to report.... maybe you are wasting your time and money?

catastrophic (20 year old OUTBOARD) engine failure here :o

I would agree with what Maristar210 said. When we lost our OUTBOARD engine the engine mechanic said that it was 90% due to damage caused by pre ignition from stale gas.

My father also saw a master mechanic who specialized in OUTBOARD marine engine repairs give a seminar who stated that the vast majority of his business is due to gasoline engines. His position was he has more than enough business without having to do senseless, preventable repairs.

Recognizing there are differences between 2 stoke and 4 stroke engines, we try to minimize any (stale) gas risk in either by:

buying gas from station with high turnover
sticking with 89 octane
using gasoline antifreeze (menthol hydrate) in each tank to reduce impact of any moisture (water) in the tank
using gas stabilizer if gas will not likely to be use the same week

Our MC dealer also said if you are hand filling your tank to use a fine strainer in your gas can nozzle as a lot of their repairs are the result of debris in the gas.

:twocents:

Thrall
01-23-2007, 07:51 PM
Not to threadjack, but TMC, that is the cleanest mower I've ever seen!
I mean I'm kinda anal about my stuff, but the mower only get's the crud hosed off of it and then parked, w/ stabilizer in the fuel , of course!
Regarding stabilizing fuel. First, Stabil does have a shelf life, there's a date on the bottle, good for about 2 yrs IIRC.
I use either Stabil or Seafoam regularly, like WFT, on anything that's going to be sitting for more than a month w/o running.
2 stroke engines are much more susceptible to burning down from a lean Fuel/air mixture than 4 strokes. The crud/varnish builds up the same regardless of engine type though. It's just that well tuned 2 strokes are much closer to the ideal fuel/air mixture than your average 4 stroke (any of out car or boat engines). Just a little build up in the main carb jet of a 2 stroke will cause less fuel supply = lean = hole in piston.
It's not too late to stabil the boat. Even if the fuel quality has degraded a bit, the varnish takes a while to build up.
In humid climates, it is advisable to keep the fuel tank near full during storage to prevent condensation buildup in the fuel tank, although less of an issue if the tank is not metal.
In dry climates, this is not a concern, and since moving out west, I do not fog my stored engines any more, or fill the fuel tanks. Typically, I'll run/siphon out as much fuel as possible, and then stabilize the remaining, run 'til it warms up and has the stabilized fuel running thru the system, then shut down. On the sleds (2 stroke carb) I turn the fuel supply off and run the float bowls out of fuel too. Keeps the floats from ever getting "waterlogged" and insures no fuel leak past the main needles filling the crankcase w/ fuel.
IMO, there's no "snakeoil" debate about stabilizing fuel. I've burned down motors w/ old fuel, only to find a clogged main jet in the carb. Both of my chainsaws will require thecarbs to be pulled apart and cleaned thoroughly if left for a year w/o draining/stabilizing/running out of fuel.
On a side note, never use HEET in the yellow bottles as a fuel dryer in 2STROKE engines, only use isopropyl alchohol fuel line dryers (don't ask how I know this either).

Slinkyredfoot
01-23-2007, 08:00 PM
Not to threadjack, but TMC, that is the cleanest mower I've ever seen!
I mean I'm kinda anal about my stuff, but the mower only get's the crud hosed off of it and then parked, w/ stabilizer in the fuel , of course!
Regarding stabilizing fuel. First, Stabil does have a shelf life, there's a date on the bottle, good for about 2 yrs IIRC.
I use either Stabil or Seafoam regularly, like WFT, on anything that's going to be sitting for more than a month w/o running.
2 stroke engines are much more susceptible to burning down from a lean Fuel/air mixture than 4 strokes. The crud/varnish builds up the same regardless of engine type though. It's just that well tuned 2 strokes are much closer to the ideal fuel/air mixture than your average 4 stroke (any of out car or boat engines). Just a little build up in the main carb jet of a 2 stroke will cause less fuel supply = lean = hole in piston.
It's not too late to stabil the boat. Even if the fuel quality has degraded a bit, the varnish takes a while to build up.
In humid climates, it is advisable to keep the fuel tank near full during storage to prevent condensation buildup in the fuel tank, although less of an issue if the tank is not metal.
In dry climates, this is not a concern, and since moving out west, I do not fog my stored engines any more, or fill the fuel tanks. Typically, I'll run/siphon out as much fuel as possible, and then stabilize the remaining, run 'til it warms up and has the stabilized fuel running thru the system, then shut down. On the sleds (2 stroke carb) I turn the fuel supply off and run the float bowls out of fuel too. Keeps the floats from ever getting "waterlogged" and insures no fuel leak past the main needles filling the crankcase w/ fuel.
IMO, there's no "snakeoil" debate about stabilizing fuel. I've burned down motors w/ old fuel, only to find a clogged main jet in the carb. Both of my chainsaws will require thecarbs to be pulled apart and cleaned thoroughly if left for a year w/o draining/stabilizing/running out of fuel.
On a side note, never use HEET in the yellow bottles as a fuel dryer in 2STROKE engines, only use isopropyl alchohol fuel line dryers (don't ask how I know this either).


Does this have to be so complicated? Couple of squirts if the boat is layed up over the winter if that makes you feel better.. if not "what me worry" They always start in the spring and run best by the 4th of July

Jerseydave
01-23-2007, 08:20 PM
I use it in my 9 year old John Deere,

Does that sign say "MT PILOT Miracle Salve???

What the heck is that???

TMCNo1
01-23-2007, 09:51 PM
Does that sign say "MT PILOT Miracle Salve???

What the heck is that???

I got it from the Mayberry General Store in Mt Airy, NC home of Andy Griffith, just up the road from Mt Pilot (Pilot Mountain, NC). Salve is like a great big Chap Stick for dry skin, "Cures All That Ailes Ya!", old people used to use for healing purposes. The other sign is for "The Snappy Lunch", "Home of ther Pork Chop Sandwich", right next door to the real "Floyd's Barber Shop", Mayberry, NC.
Yes, I'm a hick, country boy!:D :rolleyes: 8p

Ric
01-24-2007, 03:52 AM
Yes sir TMC, your lawnmower has it's own warm rug to lie on each nite. No way a guy who keeps a rug under his mower does not stabil his fuel... no way!

sizzler
01-24-2007, 03:55 AM
you're up late

Ric
01-24-2007, 03:57 AM
early .

sizzler
01-24-2007, 03:58 AM
what time is it where u are???

Ric
01-24-2007, 03:58 AM
2:59am
how bout Jolly ol England? What time do you have?

Workin' 4 Toys
01-24-2007, 08:51 AM
yep, better yet, my burp aims riggggght at that corner of the backseat and the hatch lid........... niccccce! nah, it's not a fire hazard honey... keep the kids over there for awhile as I dry out the boat :rolleyes:
A 2003 X7 apparently has the exact same problem.....:o......I don't recall reading this before...I thought it was me....And I used "effen" too many times to describe the situation. I learned how to resolve this problem too late in the game. I stood on the starboard side as the fuel girl filled her up from the dock....That solved the problem. But you are right, should I HAVE to think about that...

TMCNo1
01-24-2007, 09:55 AM
Yes sir TMC, your lawnmower has it's own warm rug to lie on each nite. No way a guy who keeps a rug under his mower does not stabil his fuel... no way!


Ric, I like making Chicken Salad out of Chicken manure, check this out,
http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=291793&postcount=71

They fit perfect with 2 rounds of electrical tape on the main tube (top/bottom) and they won't float off, if not pop riveted on. O-ring at the bottom to dress it up. They won't scar the rub rail and the rubrail won't scar them. Don't use with the all S/S rubrail though.

Ric
01-24-2007, 10:26 AM
Ric, I like making Chicken Salad out of Chicken manure, check this out,
http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=291793&postcount=71

They fit perfect with 2 rounds of electrical tape on the main tube (top/bottom) and they won't float off, if not pop riveted on. O-ring at the bottom to dress it up. They won't scar the rub rail and the rubrail won't scar them. Don't use with the all S/S rubrail though. I like that !

chudson
01-24-2007, 11:16 AM
Does that sign say "MT PILOT Miracle Salve???

What the heck is that???

There was an episode on a couple of weeks ago were Opie and buddy's got stuck selling cases of that very item if I remember right, but then my wife says I am afflicted with C.R.S. (Can't Remember Sh_t) so I may be wrong!!! :rolleyes:

chudson
01-24-2007, 11:26 AM
Sorry, totally jacked this Thread but I'll try to get it back on track. As long as this thread is you probably do need to put in Stabil or Seafoam (what ever that is never heard of that one)by now. Hey I've seen Sea Foam before, you know when you feed the sea gulls out on the beach and your feeding them bread...........slip'em an Alka Seltzer..............POOF,seafoam!!!!:rolleyes: