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Jesus_Freak
01-10-2007, 03:06 AM
We recently purchased a new odyssey. While I am extremely pleased with the vehicle, overall, the mileage is vastly disappointing. It is supposed to get in the upper 20s, but has barely broken 20 MPG over a period of a few months. The engine utilizes this economy feature, in which over a certain range of manifold absolute pressure for a given speed, only 3 cylinders are used. Based on when the economy light is illuminated, the ECM finds a relatively small fraction of the time suitable for this 3-cyl feature. Running in cruise (50-70MPH) on flat land, for example, it cannot keep the light on but for maybe 70% of the time. It should not ever need all 6 cyl to overcome drag and friction at cruising speeds on flat land. The situation may be improved after break-in, but the posted mileage ratings are an insult to the consumer.

1. Has anyone else seen this?
2. Would you imagine there is any way to change the sensitivity of the economy program to the operating MAP?
3. Part of the problem might be the cruise program overshooting the throttle requirements to meet setpoint -- doubt there is any hope of adjusting this.

Yeah, I know this probably belongs on an odyssey forum, but you are my peeps. :cool:

Leroy
01-10-2007, 08:07 AM
I believe our 2004 Odyssey gets mid 20's but have never really checked it closely. Take it back to Honda and do visit a Honda forum. I go to a Lexus forum for questions on my SUV, good knowledge, but not as much fun as here!

Are you also know as leadfoot Jesus_freak? :D

Workin' 4 Toys
01-10-2007, 09:16 AM
I have no valuable input to offer on anything Honda other than the HARDCORE Honda guys here are Leroy, Hoosier Bob, & East Tx skier. ;)

Jesus_Freak
01-10-2007, 09:21 AM
I believe our 2004 Odyssey gets mid 20's but have never really checked it closely. Take it back to Honda and do visit a Honda forum. I go to a Lexus forum for questions on my SUV, good knowledge, but not as much fun as here!

Are you also know as leadfoot Jesus_freak? :D

I have visited the other forums. They are all complaining about it, but I see no solutions.

Leadfoot? No, actually quite the opposite. I am retentive about my non-leadfootage. I will do nearly anything to keep that little green eco light on.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-10-2007, 09:24 AM
I have no valuable input to offer on anything Honda other than the HARDCORE Honda guys here are Leroy, Hoosier Bob, & East Tx skier. ;)
Look at that! What a gentleman! :D

Sodar
01-10-2007, 09:25 AM
Wow, my Honda Odyssey got ~40 mpg... of course I think we are talking about another type of Honda Odyssey!
http://www.rc-trucks.org/Honda-Odyssey-FL350-4.JPG
How many miles do you have on your car? My Tahoe got HORRIBLE gas mileage until it hit ~7,000mi... I wonder if this is a preset ECM function....

Workin' 4 Toys
01-10-2007, 09:31 AM
Wow, my Honda Odyssey got ~40 mpg... of course I think we are talking about another type of Honda Odyssey!
http://www.rc-trucks.org/Honda-Odyssey-FL350-4.JPG
How many miles do you have on your car? My Tahoe got HORRIBLE gas mileage until it hit ~7,000mi... I wonder if this is a preset ECM function....
Not to jack J_F thread too bad...:o
We had one fo those years ago, blew the motor on a frozen river at WOT...:(
Then sold it...
But it was a blast. They had races for them at a track called Santa Fe Speedway, that was the best type of racing there. They woulld hit the jumps flip end over end and keep on going. Unlike when the quads did that...
It was actually a stock car track they used for "special" events like dirt bike & atv racing. I used to live going there.

The track is LONG gone, It's all housing now....:mad:

Monte
01-10-2007, 09:35 AM
I have no valuable input to offer on anything Honda other than the HARDCORE Honda guys here are Leroy, Hoosier Bob, & East Tx skier. ;)

can Honda (cars) and Hardcore actually be in the same sentence?:confused: :confused:

sanjuan23
01-10-2007, 09:37 AM
How many miles do you have on your car? My Tahoe got HORRIBLE gas mileage until it hit ~7,000mi... I wonder if this is a preset ECM function....

I agree with Sodar here. Seems these new fandangled engines do not get the fuel economy we expect until they have seen a few thousand miles. I know that I kept :rant: about my Titan's poor poor MPG until another owner informed me that it would take up to 10k for it to be fully broken in and getting still horrible MPG.

Jesus_Freak
01-10-2007, 09:50 AM
Thanks peeps. I thought of the break-in issue, but just could not see it making nearly 30% difference!

Sodar
01-10-2007, 09:54 AM
Thanks peeps. I thought of the break-in issue, but just could not see it making nearly 30% difference!
It could easily make a 30% difference. i.e. first 7,000mi on Tahoe I averaged ~250 miles per tank... Today, I am getting ~380-400 miles per tank (Driving the same route and same driving habits...)

Jesus_Freak
01-10-2007, 10:00 AM
10-4. Thank you. There is some hope!

The other complicating factor is that this eco 3-cyl feature is probably not allowing the cut-out cylinders to break-in with proper loading. I am not sure what the shutdown sequence is, but I imagine that it is fixed (not random) based on firing order to achieve a smooth transition.

#47of100TeamMC
01-10-2007, 10:24 AM
I'm not sure those economy modes are all they are cracked up to be. We took my father-in-law's 2007 tahoe up to Lake of the woods for some ice fishing. and on a perfectly flat road. cruise set at 60. we couldn't keep that thing in 4cyl. mode either! I thought that was a crock. we slowed down to 55mph just to see if it helped. and it helped a little. but we still couldn't keep it in 4cyl. mode. not pulling any trailers. Must have to have a little old lady driving and a tail wind to make use of the economy features. Maybe they'll get better though. who knows.

dog paw
01-10-2007, 10:41 AM
Those DOD small block engines GM uses rock the house! I was really surprised. It's quite a nifty setup Time will tell how they hold up though. Dont be surprised if the milage lets you down I have heard that complaint a few times also

Here's a cut and paste on a little bit of there operation





Displacement on Demand (DoD) System Description
To provide maximum fuel economy under light load driving conditions, the engine control module (ECM) will command the displacement on demand (DoD) system to deactivate engine cylinders 1 and 7 on the left bank, and cylinders 4 and 6 on the right bank, switching to a V4 mode. The engine will operate on 8 cylinders, or V8 mode, during engine starting, engine idling, and medium to heavy throttle applications.
When commanded ON, the ECM will determine what cylinder is firing, and begin deactivation on the next closest DoD cylinder in firing order sequence. The Gen IV engine has a firing order of 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3. If cylinder number 1 is on its combustion event when DoD is commanded ON, the next cylinder in the firing order sequence that can be deactivated is cylinder number 7. If cylinder number 5 is on its combustion event when DoD is commanded ON, then the next cylinder in the firing order sequence that can be deactivated is cylinder number 4.
Cylinder deactivation is accomplished by not allowing the intake and exhaust valves to open on the selected cylinders by using special valve lifters. The deactivation lifters contain spring loaded locking pins that connect the internal pin housing of the lifter to the outer housing. The pin housing contains the lifter plunger and pushrod seat which interfaces with the pushrod. The outer housing contacts the camshaft lobe through a roller. During V8 mode, the locking pins are pushed outward by spring force, locking the pin housing and outer housing together causing the lifter to function as a normal lifter. When V4 mode is commanded ON, the locking pins are pushed inward with engine oil pressure directed from the valve lifter oil manifold (VLOM) assembly solenoids. When the lifter pin housing is unlocked from the outer housing, the internal pin housing will remain stationary, while the outer housing will move with the profile of the camshaft lobe, which results in the valve remaining closed. One VLOM solenoid controls both the intake and exhaust valves for each deactivating cylinder. There are 2 distinct oil passages going to each DoD lifter bore, one for the hydraulic lash-adjusting feature of the lifter, and one for controlling the locking pins used for cylinder deactivation.
Although both intake and exhaust valve lifters are controlled by the same solenoid in the VLOM, the intake and exhaust valves do not become deactivated at the same time. Cylinder deactivation is timed so that the cylinder is on an intake event. During an intake event, the intake cam lobe is pushing the valve lifter upwards to open the intake valve against the force of the valve spring. The force exerted by the valve spring is acting on the side of the lifter locking pins, preventing them from moving until the intake valve has closed. When the intake valve lifter reaches the base circle of the camshaft lobe, the valve spring force is reduced, allowing the locking pins to move, deactivating the intake valve. However, when DoD is commanded ON, the exhaust valve for the deactivated cylinder is in the closed position, allowing the locking pins on the valve lifter to move immediately, and deactivate the exhaust valve.
By deactivating the exhaust valve first, this allows the capture of a burnt air/fuel charge or exhaust gas charge in the combustion chamber. The capture of exhaust gases in the combustion chamber will contribute to a reduction in oil consumption, noise and vibration levels, and exhaust emissions when operating in V4 mode. During the transition from V8 to V4 mode, the fuel injectors will be turned OFF on the deactivated cylinders. The ignition system secondary voltage or spark is still present across the spark plug electrodes on the deactivated cylinders. If all enabling conditions are met and maintained for DoD operation, the ECM calibrations will limit cylinder deactivation to a cycle time of 10 minutes in V4 mode, and then return to V8 mode for 1 minute.
Switching between V8 and V4 mode is accomplished in less than 250 milliseconds, making the transitions seamless and transparent to the vehicle operator. The 250 milliseconds includes the time for the ECM to sequence the transitions, the response time for the VLOM solenoids to energize, and the time for the DoD valve lifters to deactivate, all within 2 revolutions of the engine crankshaft.
Valve Lifter Oil Manifold (VLOM) Assembly
The displacement on demand (DoD) system uses an electro-hydraulic actuator device called the valve lifter oil manifold (VLOM) assembly. The VLOM is bolted to the top of the engine valley, below the intake manifold assembly. The VLOM consists of 4 electrically operated Normally Closed Solenoids. Each solenoid controls the application of engine oil pressure to the intake and exhaust valve lifters on the cylinders selected to deactivate. Engine oil pressure is routed to the VLOM assembly from a passage on the rear of the cylinder block.
All 4 VLOM solenoids are connected in parallel to a fused ignition 1 voltage circuit, supplied by the powertrain relay. The ground or control circuit for each solenoid is connected to the engine control module (ECM).
When all enabling conditions are met for DoD operation, the ECM will ground each solenoid control circuit in firing order sequence, allowing current to flow through the solenoid windings. With the coil windings energized, the solenoid valve opens, redirecting engine oil pressure through the VLOM into 8 separate vertical passages in the engine lifter valley. The 8 vertical passages, 2 per cylinder, are connected to the valve lifter bores of the cylinders to be deactivated. When vehicle-operating conditions require a return to V8 mode, the ECM will turn OFF the control circuit for the solenoids, allowing the solenoid valves to close. With the solenoid valves closed, engine oil pressure in the control ports is exhausted through the body of the solenoids into the engine block lifter valley. The housing of the VLOM incorporates several bleeds in the oil passages to purge any air trapped in the VLOM or engine block.
To control any contamination to the DoD hydraulic circuits, a small replaceable oil screen is located in the VLOM oil inlet passage, below the oil pressure sensor. The oil pressure sensor is a 3-wire sensor which provides oil pressure information to the ECM.
During service, use extreme care in keeping the VLOM assembly free of any contamination or foreign material.
Engine Control Module (ECM)
The engine control module (ECM) is responsible for the management and control of all engine functions. Each ECM comes equipped with a specific set of software/calibrations designed for that engine and vehicle application. The ECM will determine engine operating parameters, based upon information from a network of switches, sensors, modules and communication with other controllers located throughout vehicle. Internal to the ECM is an integrated circuit device called a low-side driver. The low-side driver is designed to operate internally, like an electronic switch. An individual low-side driver controls each valve lifter oil manifold (VLOM) solenoid. When enabling conditions for V4 mode are met, the ECM will command the low-side driver to ground each VLOM solenoid control circuit, in firing order sequence. Internal to the low-side driver is a fault detection circuit, which monitors the solenoid control circuit for an incorrect voltage level. If an incorrect voltage level, such as an open, high resistance, short to ground, or short to power, is detected, the low-side driver, along with the fault detection circuit, will communicate the condition to the central processor in the ECM. The ECM will then command a return to V8 mode, set a corresponding DTC, and illuminate the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) on the instrument panel.

Sodar
01-10-2007, 10:43 AM
Jeez-o! Can you guys send me the cliffnote version of that text! I would like it due on my desk by 7am PST!! LOL!

sanjuan23
01-10-2007, 10:44 AM
Jeez Cameron what time are getting to work these days???

Workin' 4 Toys
01-10-2007, 10:49 AM
Ok....I have a question on this DOD...
Would it be too much to ask to have a switch....So its in 4 cyl when I want and 8cyl when I want? Or perhaps a "knob" that I could adjust my driving with selections for 4, 6 or 8 cyl......

BrianM
01-10-2007, 10:49 AM
We recently purchased a new odyssey. While I am extremely pleased with the vehicle, overall, the mileage is vastly disappointing. It is supposed to get in the upper 20s, but has barely broken 20 MPG over a period of a few months. The engine utilizes this economy feature, in which over a certain range of manifold absolute pressure for a given speed, only 3 cylinders are used. Based on when the economy light is illuminated, the ECM finds a relatively small fraction of the time suitable for this 3-cyl feature. Running in cruise (50-70MPH) on flat land, for example, it cannot keep the light on but for maybe 70% of the time. It should not ever need all 6 cyl to overcome drag and friction at cruising speeds on flat land. The situation may be improved after break-in, but the posted mileage ratings are an insult to the consumer.

1. Has anyone else seen this?
2. Would you imagine there is any way to change the sensitivity of the economy program to the operating MAP?
3. Part of the problem might be the cruise program overshooting the throttle requirements to meet setpoint -- doubt there is any hope of adjusting this.

Yeah, I know this probably belongs on an odyssey forum, but you are my peeps. :cool:
My '07 Avalanche (now has 11k miles) has the same type of cylinder deactivation and seems to do exactly the same thing. My mileage is nowhere near what the EPA estimates are. It really only deactivates cylinders in a coasting type situation or very steady pressure. Any small amount of throttle input imediately puts it back into all cylinders. I think this has a lot to do with the programming of the computer. The manufacturers want that power available imediately instead of decreased performance. Keep in mind that the Hwy test the EPA uses has an average speed of 48 mph with a top speed of only 60mph (think rural highway not interstate). http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml This is where cylinder deactivation is in its sweet spot. Set the cruise at 50mph on flat level ground and I bet you get better mileage. That big box of a minivan (and my Avalanche) push exponentially more air at 75mph than at 60mph. For me it is a time cost benefit thing. I could drive 55mph on the highway and waste hours or my life or drive 75mph save myself some time and pay the oil cartels. I choose the latter.

By the way the EPA is changing the test for '08 and the word on the street is that mileage numbers will go down an average of 10-15% on the same vehicle. So looking at window stickers of an '07 and '08 model that were unchanged the '07 is going to look like it gets better mileage where in reality the '08 is just a more accurate estimate. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ratings2008.shtml

Sodar
01-10-2007, 10:51 AM
Jeez Cameron what time are getting to work these days???

I try to be in the office by ~4:45 am PST... helps me to avoid traffic. However, this morning I hit some and it took my over an hour to get in.

Sorry... ThreadJack Over!!

Willski
01-10-2007, 10:54 AM
We recently purchased a new odyssey. While I am extremely pleased with the vehicle, overall, the mileage is vastly disappointing. It is supposed to get in the upper 20s, but has barely broken 20 MPG over a period of a few months. The engine utilizes this economy feature, in which over a certain range of manifold absolute pressure for a given speed, only 3 cylinders are used. Based on when the economy light is illuminated, the ECM finds a relatively small fraction of the time suitable for this 3-cyl feature. Running in cruise (50-70MPH) on flat land, for example, it cannot keep the light on but for maybe 70% of the time. It should not ever need all 6 cyl to overcome drag and friction at cruising speeds on flat land. The situation may be improved after break-in, but the posted mileage ratings are an insult to the consumer.

1. Has anyone else seen this?
2. Would you imagine there is any way to change the sensitivity of the economy program to the operating MAP?
3. Part of the problem might be the cruise program overshooting the throttle requirements to meet setpoint -- doubt there is any hope of adjusting this.

Yeah, I know this probably belongs on an odyssey forum, but you are my peeps. :cool:


We just bought a Honda Pilot in September. I think it is rated at 17/22. We have gotten up to 18 or 19 on the highway, but my wife (aka leadfoot) driving around town is getting about 14-16. Kind of disappointing. I asked Honda service about it, and they said they would investigate, but would prefer to wait until it has about 6000 miles on it. I'm hoping it goes up. I had a hitch put on it too, so I can pull my 84 S&S. Wonder what the mileage will be towing?

Jesus_Freak
01-10-2007, 11:01 AM
Those DOD small block engines GM uses rock the house! I was really surprised. It's quite a nifty setup Time will tell how they hold up though. Dont be surprised if the milage lets you down I have heard that complaint a few times also

Here's a cut and paste on a little bit of there operation


Displacement on Demand (DoD) System Description....

Thank you. So it looks like the cylinder order is NOT fixed but depends on which cylinder was firing when the command was sent from the low-side driver (at least for the GM). Very nice indeed.....but a whole lot of work (and stuff to fail) for such a small benefit if we cannot keep it turned on.

BrianM
01-10-2007, 11:02 AM
Wonder what the mileage will be towing?

My money is on about 12-13 mpg towing. Seems to be the magic number with most tow vehicles

BrianM
01-10-2007, 11:06 AM
if we cannot keep it turned on.

I know that there are multiple 'aftermarket tunes' in the works for these vehicles with cylinder deactivation with a focus on increased economy. I have to imagine that if you are willing to sacrifice a small amount of performance or at least require a lot more throttle imput for it to go back into all cylinder mode that the fuel econy can go way up. I can easily average 22 mpg over long flat distances with cruise set at 55mph. At 75 mph the best I can do is 18mpg.

Jesus_Freak
01-10-2007, 11:09 AM
...By the way the EPA is changing the test for '08 and the word on the street is that mileage numbers will go down an average of 10-15% on the same vehicle. So looking at window stickers of an '07 and '08 model that were unchanged the '07 is going to look like it gets better mileage where in reality the '08 is just a more accurate estimate. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/ratings2008.shtml

Thanks! As soon as I started the thread I went out and began searching. I should have done that first :o , as I may have phrased things differently. I found similar info.

Yes, alot of air displacement, but that is what the EPA testing is for. I just want a realistic number.

Jesus_Freak
01-10-2007, 11:10 AM
I know that there are multiple 'aftermarket tunes' in the works for these vehicles with cylinder deactivation with a focus on increased economy.

Tell me more captain.

BrianM
01-10-2007, 11:20 AM
Yes, alot of air displacement, but that is what the EPA testing is for. I just want a realistic number.
From the EPA about the '08 testing "estimates will also be adjusted downward to account for factors that are difficult to replicate in a laboratory, such as wind and road surface resistance." Sounds like they really have not been testing wind and road resistance in the old tests.

TMCNo1
01-10-2007, 11:36 AM
Newer vehicle gas mileages is simular to most boat top speeds, the best it will ever get it when it's sitting on the showroom floor before you buy it!

herringtech
01-10-2007, 12:03 PM
We have a 06 Odyssey too. We actually took it into the dealership thinking something was wrong with it because of the poor mileage. They did their fuel economy test and said it was getting 22mpg or something (we barely get 18mpg on a good day). Turns out the test is conducted at 55mph with no air conditioning on flat roads for a very short distance of less than 10 miles. Who drives 55mph on a 65mph highway?

We had other issues with the car too, including a defetive DVD player (twice), defective tire, bad air conditioning fitting (cracked and leaked all the coolent), and this fuel efficency non-problem.

We are in the process of writing to Honda corp., because were so amazed at the problems with a $35,000 van. Not to mention we feel its a false statement about the postage mileage, which I think breaks some kind of law.

Let me know if you find any more out.

Jesus_Freak
01-10-2007, 12:24 PM
They did their fuel economy test and said it was getting 22mpg or something (we barely get 18mpg on a good day). Turns out the test is conducted at 55mph with no air conditioning on flat roads for a very short distance of less than 10 miles. Who drives 55mph on a 65mph highway?

Sounds like the EPA mentality, except they say 28!

Thanks.

BrianM: How 'bout those aftermarket chips you talked about?

Mikey
01-10-2007, 12:30 PM
From the EPA about the '08 testing "estimates will also be adjusted downward to account for factors that are difficult to replicate in a laboratory, such as wind and road surface resistance." Sounds like they really have not been testing wind and road resistance in the old tests.

I heard that when they test they have no wind resistance or road surface resistance. The car is just stationary on dyno type rollers. I cant back it up with facts but its what I was told.

JF, I too was dissapointed with the EPA rating vs. actual mileage with my Charger. It said 18 in town and 25 highway when I am actually getting 15 in town an 22 highway. Not too bad considering it is a heavy 4 door car with a 5.7ltr V-8 but just not what the sticker said.

Jesus_Freak
01-10-2007, 12:40 PM
Thanks and agreed. I am not remotely concerned about my van being a big 'ol hunk of metal with x rolling resistance factor and y drag factor, etc, etc. I just want the mileage to be what they told me it would be. If not, will there ever be anything I can do, electronically or mechanically, to change this?

Workin' 4 Toys
01-10-2007, 12:43 PM
I read somewhere....
Approx. 70% of fuel is used on idling and engine deficiences, and 30% is used for locomotion....
I am beginning to believe that...... So does that mean the engine should only run when we need to move. Apparently that is where we are headed with hybrids right.....Sounds easy, just follow the lead of the golf cart manufacturers..:rolleyes:

Sodar
01-10-2007, 12:45 PM
I read somewhere....
Approx. 70% of fuel is used on idling and engine deficiences, and 30% is used for locomotion....
I am beginning to believe that...... So does that mean the engine should only run when we need to move. Apparently that is where we are headed with hybrids right.....Sounds easy, just follow the lead of the golf cart manufacturers..:rolleyes:

Sounds like a great idea! We will just be buying starters every other month... especially out her in stop & go country!!

Jesus_Freak
01-10-2007, 01:07 PM
I read somewhere....
Approx. 70% of fuel is used on idling and engine deficiences, and 30% is used for locomotion....
I am beginning to believe that...... So does that mean the engine should only run when we need to move. Apparently that is where we are headed with hybrids right.....Sounds easy, just follow the lead of the golf cart manufacturers..:rolleyes:

Yeah, I have a break-down of energy losses from the 80s, but not on me. That 30% sounds right. As many know, most of those losses are from the degeneration of mechanical energy to heat...heat "lost" to the coolant.

Leroy
01-10-2007, 01:49 PM
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/420f06069.htm

THe new method is introduced in 2008

Did you read this one?
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef7f87c

BrianM
01-10-2007, 01:52 PM
Not to mention we feel its a false statement about the postage mileage, which I think breaks some kind of law.

Honda does not create those numbers the EPA does. The EPA tests the vehicle and tells Honda what to put on the window sticker. Look at the fine print on the sticker. It basicly says "this is an estimate and your mileage may vary" Can't really blame Honda for bad EPA testing. As for the other things....

Not to be an a** but if you would have done a little internet research you would have found that the EPA mileage estimate on the Odyssey is not very accurate. Just in the above link everyone seems to report close to mileage you are getting so it shouldn't have been any surprise.

Jesus_Freak
01-10-2007, 02:00 PM
Did you read this one?
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef7f87c

Yeah, I had seen that one and it is the daddy. Thanks.

BrianM
01-10-2007, 02:13 PM
BrianM: How 'bout those aftermarket chips you talked about?

There are a bunch of companies out there. Don't know if any are working on stuff for the Honda vans but maybe. Just search around a bit. Westers, Superchips, HP, and Diablo are ones that come up a lot on the Avalanche forum. Most of these guys have both performance and economy tunes available.

dog paw
01-10-2007, 02:17 PM
They rate our boats by "Gallons per Mile" Looking at it like that my big ole Yukon does pretty good. :D

TMCNo1
01-10-2007, 02:18 PM
Sounds to me like the EPA tells them what to put on the sticker and who cares, the dealer and manufacture just sold one more UNIT! That's the bottom line! I sold new Buicks and Used cars for 8 months in 1998 and all Monday morning sales meetings, the General Manager and Sales Manager used the words Units, Quota, Sell-um, Sell-um, Sell-um, Finance-um, and reminded us sales peeons that the consumer is stupid, etc., etc. All of a sudden, one day I realized, after the Finance Manager chewed me out, because my dad bought a new Buick and paid cash instead financing, that I was also a consumer too and he was calling me stupid. I had a new job the next day and turned in my 2 week notice. Rant over!

ski36short
01-10-2007, 02:27 PM
I heard that when they test they have no wind resistance or road surface resistance. The car is just stationary on dyno type rollers. I cant back it up with facts but its what I was told.

The dyno power (resistance) is pre-set to take these into account; they are not mere treadmills.

ski36short
01-10-2007, 02:33 PM
Honda does not create those numbers the EPA does. The EPA tests the vehicle and tells Honda what to put on the window sticker. Look at the fine print on the sticker. It basicly says "this is an estimate and your mileage may vary" Can't really blame Honda for bad EPA testing.

Not entirely true. Each company runs their own tests and submits the data to EPA. It is subject to audit where you have to bring your subject vehicle to an EPA test site for confirmation runs.

Jesus_Freak
01-10-2007, 02:40 PM
Not to be an a** but if you would have done a little internet research you would have found that the EPA mileage estimate on the Odyssey is not very accurate. Just in the above link everyone seems to report close to mileage you are getting so it shouldn't have been any surprise.

Yes, you are correct. I already posted a :o saying that I might have phrased it differently. My primary goals were to find if YOU ALL smart peeps have experienced this and if you all know of something I can do. Neither of these objectives are met without this thread. ;)

BrianM
01-10-2007, 03:00 PM
Yes, you are correct. I already posted a :o saying that I might have phrased it differently. My primary goals were to find if YOU ALL smart peeps have experienced this and if you all know of something I can do. Neither of these objectives are met without this thread. ;)
That response was really directed at herringtech not you. And again I was just saying that it obviously a know issue.

herringtech
01-11-2007, 03:08 PM
Shame on me, I didn't research if Honda/EPA was lying about their fuel economy, I trusted the sticker. I should have done my research on the MPG, so you are right Brian. I researched every other aspect of that vehicle.

I just assumed, which we all know makes an a** out of you.

I do a lot of work for Ford and their stickers are pretty accurate when it comes to MPG estimates. I figured it would be the same or better with Honda, guess not.

3event
01-11-2007, 03:22 PM
Consumer Reports a while back covered the significant shortfalls between rated and actual mileage. One of the offenders was the Honda Element and the diff was significant. But the guilt was spread among various domestic and import mfrs.

We have an 06 Chrysler Town & Country which I would expect to be a bit less efficient than an Odyssey - we get about 20 but thats not bad considering it's a lot of kid runs around town.

Rated mileage is highly suspect for sure, and it also depends on your gas. Around here we have a reformulated blend that reduces your mileage measureably - if you're in a pollution-prone area covered by the EPA (or exposed to the corn lobby) your gas might not be helping...

EDIT, shoulda read ALL the posts first..... IMHO the minivans are just too heavy and boxy to deliver much in mpg - we all wanted these big V6's didnt we?

Jesus_Freak
01-11-2007, 03:26 PM
I appreciate everyone's input!

In light of 3event's signature, and in my best Leslie Nielsen voice, I say to the EPA, "I just wanted to let you know...we are all counting on you."

3event
01-11-2007, 03:47 PM
I appreciate everyone's input!

In light of 3event's signature, and in my best Leslie Nielsen voice, I say to the EPA, "I just wanted to let you know...we are all counting on you."

RIGHT ON. Don't get me started. In SE WI we NO LONGER have an EPA mandate for reform gas, but since the EPA does require the oil companies to produce a certain % of their gas in so-called pollution reducing formulations, they continue to dump it on us helpless residents, which costs us more money every mile. I'm just glad we dont have any 2cycle outboards in the family any longer.:mad:

Jesus_Freak
06-07-2009, 06:55 AM
Just wanted to give an update. Below you see a plot of all of my data. (Yes, I am a geek.) The lifetime average is 20. Man, that Honda rating is garbage! My wife and I are consistent and smooth drivers, and much of this is highway. Also, I only use Shell fuel.

JimN
06-07-2009, 10:57 AM
RIGHT ON. Don't get me started. In SE WI we NO LONGER have an EPA mandate for reform gas, but since the EPA does require the oil companies to produce a certain % of their gas in so-called pollution reducing formulations, they continue to dump it on us helpless residents, which costs us more money every mile. I'm just glad we dont have any 2cycle outboards in the family any longer.:mad:

Can anyone tell me how adding nitrogen to gasoline makes it burn cleaner? I'm seeing gas at $2.89/gallon now and they say it's because of the "Summer Blend" being more expensive.

JimN
06-07-2009, 10:59 AM
Just wanted to give an update. Below you see a plot of all of my data. (Yes, I am a geek.) The lifetime average is 20. Man, that Honda rating is garbage! My wife and I are consistent and smooth drivers, and much of this is highway. Also, I only use Shell fuel.

Sounds like false advertising, eh? Make them prove they can get that in normal use and not in controlled testing, on a track, with special conditions. They stated the numbers, it's up to them to prove it.

shepherd
06-07-2009, 03:13 PM
My Avalanche supposedly operates on 4 cylinders when the engine is lightly loaded. I'm still only averaging 14-15 mpg. I was able to get that with my old Tahoe with the 5.7L. I am very skeptical that this "cylinder management system," or whatever it's called, helps.

bigmac
06-07-2009, 03:33 PM
My previous truck with a 3.42 rear end averaged about 17 mpg, my current one has a 3.73 and averages about the same.

If I set the cruise control at 60 mph between here and work (15 miles pretty level highway), I'll get 22 mpg in the summer for that distance.

This vehicle has more features but cost me less than the previous one, so, whatever little good "Active Fuel Management" does me, at least it didn't cost me anything.

mbeach
06-07-2009, 05:02 PM
i have a 08 and had an 01. got around 27 with the 01 and around 25 with the 08. both were/are the standard engine.

TX.X-30 fan
06-07-2009, 10:12 PM
Get 15.5/16 on my duramax. Why drive a little box for a few miles per gallon.

skibrain
06-08-2009, 01:42 AM
Sorry to hear your mileage isn't better. We have an '05 LX that we bought new. Same hp/transmission/etc as the EX or Touring, but without the cylinder deactivation stuff. I figured that the fewer electronic geegaws we could get, the better. Including less weight. If I remember, the EX was supposed to do 1 to 1.5 mpg better on the highway than the LX.

I don't check the mileage around town. It's a big box with quite a bit of power and accelerating that around in the stop and go isn't going to yield anything special. I always check the highway mileage however. We also have a Yakima 21 cf box on top on some trips.

I am pretty consistently 24.5 to 25.5 mpg driving 75 mph. The box on top or heavy headwind will drop it to about 23. We had a tailwind to Milwaukee two weeks ago and got 28.5 at 70 mph. I figure the van with 4-6 people and their gear on board out performs a civic with 1 or 2 in the people per miles contest.

rholmes
06-08-2009, 02:25 PM
I am new to minivan world too. Not a honda, but the nissan quest. We picked up an 04 for cheapo. Actually been shocked with the gas mileage. we average 23-25, but when my wife drives, she gets 27-30. My lead foot vs her motherly instince to keep it around 72mph.

4 people and loaded with luggage and 28mpg is a good day if you ask me.

Jesus_Freak
06-09-2009, 01:42 PM
I am new to minivan world too. Not a honda, but the nissan quest. We picked up an 04 for cheapo. Actually been shocked with the gas mileage. we average 23-25, but when my wife drives, she gets 27-30. My lead foot vs her motherly instince to keep it around 72mph.

4 people and loaded with luggage and 28mpg is a good day if you ask me.

Agreed! I have an older quest also. Yes, I am a two-minivan man :noface:.


Sorry to hear your mileage isn't better. We have an '05 LX that we bought new. Same hp/transmission/etc as the EX or Touring, but without the cylinder deactivation stuff. I figured that the fewer electronic geegaws we could get, the better. Including less weight. If I remember, the EX was supposed to do 1 to 1.5 mpg better on the highway than the LX.

I don't check the mileage around town. It's a big box with quite a bit of power and accelerating that around in the stop and go isn't going to yield anything special. I always check the highway mileage however. We also have a Yakima 21 cf box on top on some trips.

I am pretty consistently 24.5 to 25.5 mpg driving 75 mph. The box on top or heavy headwind will drop it to about 23. We had a tailwind to Milwaukee two weeks ago and got 28.5 at 70 mph. I figure the van with 4-6 people and their gear on board out performs a civic with 1 or 2 in the people per miles contest.

Agreed....fewer gadgets is good, but my wife "motivated" me to seek the greater range of gadgetry. :o

I think that one contributor to my problem is that I use cruise control like it is going out of style. That is OK on flat land, but flat land is scarce here in east TN. I realize that cruise control only operates in "feedback" mode, not "feedforward" and is not ideally suited for hilly terrain. A little elevation change, depending on how gradual, should not be a problem for any cruise control; however, Honda seriously botched the tuning on their PI (or PID) cruise controller program. If the speed drops below setpoint, the controller lets is continue to drop a bit. Then...all of a sudden...the throttle plate goes wide open (it seems) and all 200+ horses are utilized to get it back to, and some above, setpoint. This nice little feature costs me fuel and a speeding ticket in Virginia last year. The cruise control acts like I ski the course...slow and sloppy.