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123src
01-07-2007, 10:42 PM
OK guys, here's the deal. I went to the Portland Boat show yesterday (the first day) and got there as soon as it opened. The 1st booth walking in the door is the local MB sports and Moomba dealer. Aside from the boats they sell, they have a pretty good selection of ski's, boards, vests, and all the other gear a guy needs. Anyway, I was glancing though the skis and noticed what I thought was a system 8, but the top deck was suuper dark. I flipped the ski over and it had a monza bottom. The sticker on the ski just said ****05 blowout****$329****. This truly peaked my curiosity. Oh, the ski had XL double boot Venoms on it. (I need large). I skied last year on sand2snow22's old 70 Truth and it was not working that well for me.....ok, back to the story.... Just about the time I pick up the ski to investigate further, the sales guy walks up and explains to me the ski is an '05 Monza that someone accidentally put the top system 8 graphic on. The reason it was so dark, unlike the bright white and red on the 05 system 8 was because the material used to make the Monza darkened it up. I was trying to make my mind up on whether or not I should believe the guy, but I could not get over the price, which ever ski it was. I then told the guy that I needed a large bouble boot setup if I was going to buy the ski, and it looked like he didn't have any large Venoms on any of the other skis they had there. The guy then tells me that for $349, he'll sell me the ski with 2 Approach boots! Now I am salivating. Could this be true???? Next thing I know, I am talking to the western Rep for HO sports. He picked up the ski and confirmed that by weight, he could definetly tell it was a Monza. Needless to say, I laid down the cash and now have a new ski. What do you guys think about the story? Possible? Is the weight of the 2 ski that different? Or, should I just not care about what ski it really is and just enjoy it..... Oh yeah...I almost forgot... Is it possible that I might need those not-for-sale fin set screws that Ric talks of? I'll post some pics to help you picture the ski....I know how much everyone loves the pics...

123src
01-07-2007, 10:43 PM
here's the bottom

123src
01-07-2007, 10:43 PM
double boot...

123src
01-07-2007, 10:44 PM
fin box....

123src
01-07-2007, 10:47 PM
stock 2005 system 8 pic to compare

123src
01-07-2007, 10:48 PM
Stock 2005 Monza pic

123src
01-07-2007, 10:51 PM
OK.... Let's here waht you think...Also was wondering about the Approach boots...does left/right foot matter? Thought I read somewhere these were interchangable? any ideas on that question while we're at it?

sand2snow22
01-07-2007, 10:58 PM
SRC, sorry the truth didn't work out. It is possible. The Monza is a lot lighter than the System 8. I think you got the good, light stuff of the Monza and a System 8 topsheet? I have the system 8 because it is supposed to be more forgiving, especially in rough water. I'm regretting it a little, b/c I only ski on glass!! You might have the best of both worlds....

Let me know how the approach boots work out. We should ski sometime. How's that nice truck? Post a pic for me.....

sand2snow22
01-07-2007, 10:59 PM
Found a pic in your signature....

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-07-2007, 11:02 PM
Check with Eastie or MYMC about this, or MarkP. sounds like you got a prototype or something. I have heard of Monza's with "experimental" top graphics on them. those guys I mentioned will know more about it.

east tx skier
01-07-2007, 11:24 PM
Mine looks just like it. Bought it from MC of Charlotte. It is one of the prototype skis. Take the boots and fin off and weigh it. If it's one of the prototype monzas like mine, it'll come in at around 3 lbs.

88 PS190
01-08-2007, 12:19 AM
Thank goodness they got rid of that pinkish red color.

find the guy who isnt selling stainless set screws.

and the footbeds swap I believe.

Jesus_Freak
01-08-2007, 12:58 AM
I just got an '05 Monza with Approaches. I considered mine a super deal until I saw your post. I have not disassembled the bindings, but as best as I can tell, they are indeed interchangeable. The footpad is just reversed. However, with that said, there are many here who know more than I do.

Brent
01-08-2007, 10:05 AM
They were putting out Monza's with system 8 graphic's to promote the System 8 which was not out in production yet! You got a hell of a deal enjoy.

If the ski is not working for you don't hesitate to adjust the fin or boot placement!

Here are some settings

http://www.carbonfins.com/FinChart.htm

shepherd
01-08-2007, 10:13 AM
While the Monza is lighter, the System 8 is pretty light itself, so I'm surprised that someone could tell it's a Monza just by picking it up without having a System 8 in his other hand for comparison. But it sounds like you got the real deal. Congrats!

You'll definitely need the set screws. That ski is very finicky about fin setup. It's a challenge. Enjoy!

east tx skier
01-08-2007, 11:15 AM
While the Monza is lighter, the System 8 is pretty light itself, so I'm surprised that someone could tell it's a Monza just by picking it up without having a System 8 in his other hand for comparison. But it sounds like you got the real deal. Congrats!



Agreed. What I should have said was stand on the scale with the ski sans boots and fin and then do it without. Monza should weigh just over 3 lbs. if memory serves.

Ric
01-08-2007, 11:16 AM
I need some XL Venom parts and apparantly may as well buy the entire boots... this guy doing boots cheap too?

east tx skier
01-08-2007, 11:18 AM
I need some XL Venom parts and apparantly may as well buy the entire boots... this guy doing boots cheap too?

Ric, get you some Wiley's boots already. That duck tape set up you're running just isn't safe.

Ric
01-08-2007, 11:19 AM
you know how I am about change

east tx skier
01-08-2007, 11:33 AM
I promise you'll like them. I've skied animals, venoms, and approaches and greatly prefer the wileys to all of them.

vogelm1
01-08-2007, 11:41 AM
You'll definitely need the set screws. That ski is very finicky about fin setup. It's a challenge. Enjoy![/QUOTE]

Sorry guys, could anyone enlighten me what the fin set screws are for? I must have missed that thread, and in my "Search" couldn't narrow it down to under 11 pages - to go through. I have a System 8 so it probably can't take advantage of the benefits anyway. Thanks for the info!!

Ric
01-08-2007, 11:46 AM
See the plastic thingies in his finbox in the pics? HO does not supply the set screws that go in those holes due to some patent infringement deal...

H20skeefreek
01-08-2007, 11:55 AM
OK guys, here's the deal. I went to the Portland Boat show yesterday (the first day) and got there as soon as it opened. The 1st booth walking in the door is the local MB sports and Moomba dealer. Aside from the boats they sell, they have a pretty good selection of ski's, boards, vests, and all the other gear a guy needs. Anyway, I was glancing though the skis and noticed what I thought was a system 8, but the top deck was suuper dark. I flipped the ski over and it had a monza bottom. The sticker on the ski just said ****05 blowout****$329****. This truly peaked my curiosity. Oh, the ski had XL double boot Venoms on it. (I need large). I skied last year on sand2snow22's old 70 Truth and it was not working that well for me.....ok, back to the story.... Just about the time I pick up the ski to investigate further, the sales guy walks up and explains to me the ski is an '05 Monza that someone accidentally put the top system 8 graphic on. The reason it was so dark, unlike the bright white and red on the 05 system 8 was because the material used to make the Monza darkened it up. I was trying to make my mind up on whether or not I should believe the guy, but I could not get over the price, which ever ski it was. I then told the guy that I needed a large bouble boot setup if I was going to buy the ski, and it looked like he didn't have any large Venoms on any of the other skis they had there. The guy then tells me that for $349, he'll sell me the ski with 2 Approach boots! Now I am salivating. Could this be true???? Next thing I know, I am talking to the western Rep for HO sports. He picked up the ski and confirmed that by weight, he could definetly tell it was a Monza. Needless to say, I laid down the cash and now have a new ski. What do you guys think about the story? Possible? Is the weight of the 2 ski that different? Or, should I just not care about what ski it really is and just enjoy it..... Oh yeah...I almost forgot... Is it possible that I might need those not-for-sale fin set screws that Ric talks of? I'll post some pics to help you picture the ski....I know how much everyone loves the pics...
You got taken. Send me the ski and I'll dispose of it.

Jesus_Freak
01-08-2007, 12:07 PM
You got taken. Send me the ski and I'll dispose of it.

Send it to me for disposal and I will pay your shipping and give you a few bucks to spare.

MYMC
01-08-2007, 01:13 PM
Have I taught you people nothing? Look at the picture! You can tell it is not a Monza proto right away...anyone notice the tip? Jeez...what am I going to do with you guys? The devil is always in the details.

Still a great ski though. If you need help with set up let me know.

H20skeefreek
01-08-2007, 01:18 PM
MYMC, do you have any of these "defective" ski's a.k.a. "prototypes". If so, I'll come and pick them up and "get rid of them".

ps- I emailed HO on thursday about my cracked ski, how long should a response take with them?

MYMC
01-08-2007, 01:22 PM
MYMC, do you have any of these "defective" ski's a.k.a. "prototypes". If so, I'll come and pick them up and "get rid of them".

ps- I emailed HO on thursday about my cracked ski, how long should a response take with them?
Nope ETS took the last one. Should be within 72 hours if not resend and after that let me know and I'll get involved.

shepherd
01-08-2007, 01:50 PM
Sorry guys, could anyone enlighten me what the fin set screws are for? I must have missed that thread, and in my "Search" couldn't narrow it down to under 11 pages - to go through. I have a System 8 so it probably can't take advantage of the benefits anyway. Thanks for the info!!

You can move the fin simply by loosening the fin clamp screws that hold the fin in place. However, you need the set screws to make precise, controlled adjustments to the fin. I've found that as little as a half turn of a set screw (you'll barely see the fin move) can change my Monza from a barely controllable ski to an over-the-front face plant widowmaker! Your System 8 has the same fin box so you can take advantage of the benefits as well.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-08-2007, 01:54 PM
MYMC, do you have any of these "defective" ski's a.k.a. "prototypes". If so, I'll come and pick them up and "get rid of them".

ps- I emailed HO on thursday about my cracked ski, how long should a response take with them?
Skeefreek, keep in mind there is a difference between "prototype" monza's and "defective" ones. Mine is defective.

Ric
01-08-2007, 01:56 PM
You can move the fin simply by loosening the fin clamp screws that hold the fin in place. However, you need the set screws to make precise, controlled adjustments to the fin. I've found that as little as a half turn of a set screw (you'll barely see the fin move) can change my Monza from a barely controllable ski to an over-the-front face plant widowmaker! Your System 8 has the same fin box so you can take advantage of the benefits as well. I am blatantly aware of the latter comment about the results from my adjustments on the monza :o

MYMC
01-08-2007, 01:56 PM
Skeefreek, keep in mind there is a difference between "prototype" monza's and "defective" ones. Mine is defective.
For the sake of clarification...I only sold the "prototypes":D

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-08-2007, 02:22 PM
For the sake of clarification...I only sold the "prototypes":D
I know. :) I would have bought one of those from you, as I was looking for a inexpensive one, but you didnt have any at the time I was looking.:( I couldnt swing a new one, so I bought a used one that was in the price range I could afford. I should have bought your SIXAM as the price you offered it for was enticing. hindsight is always 20/20 I guess. SO I have my "defective" monza instead.

shepherd
01-08-2007, 04:51 PM
UMP, there is a difference between a "defective" product (i.e., manufacturing or design problems) and one that was just screwed up by a previous owner. Also, if I remember our earlier PM exchanges correctly, your "defect" should be relatively easy to fix. Don't give up on that ski!

MYMC
01-08-2007, 04:56 PM
I know. :) I would have bought one of those from you, as I was looking for a inexpensive one, but you didnt have any at the time I was looking.:( I couldnt swing a new one, so I bought a used one that was in the price range I could afford. I should have bought your SIXAM as the price you offered it for was enticing. hindsight is always 20/20 I guess. SO I have my "defective" monza instead.
I still have that SIXAM...if you are looking to make a move????:rolleyes: And you know I only sell skis that go onto personal best!;)

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-08-2007, 05:09 PM
UMP, there is a difference between a "defective" product (i.e., manufacturing or design problems) and one that was just screwed up by a previous owner. Also, if I remember our earlier PM exchanges correctly, your "defect" should be relatively easy to fix. Don't give up on that ski!
Shep my friend, that was just my sense of humor!8p I know the ski isnt defective, I just say its "defective", that way, I can blame my poor skiing on it too. 8p Just me being goofy! I have researched the fixing route with two differnt guys that do machine work, and talked to them about extracting that broken bolt, both of them tried several methods to no avail, and they were both afraid to dig in further as to damage the ski. they figured I would really be asking for trouble to push the issue.

If I had the cash, I would try Mike's SIXAM. Mike, let's see what winter brings, see how the bills treat me. If things go well and I have the spare cash, I may give you a shout to see if you still have it. :) Thanks again.

vogelm1
01-08-2007, 06:11 PM
You can move the fin simply by loosening the fin clamp screws that hold the fin in place. However, you need the set screws to make precise, controlled adjustments to the fin. I've found that as little as a half turn of a set screw (you'll barely see the fin move) can change my Monza from a barely controllable ski to an over-the-front face plant widowmaker! Your System 8 has the same fin box so you can take advantage of the benefits as well.

Thanks Shep and Ric! Now I understand...

shepherd
01-08-2007, 06:41 PM
I have researched the fixing route with two differnt guys that do machine work, and talked to them about extracting that broken bolt, both of them tried several methods to no avail, and they were both afraid to dig in further as to damage the ski. they figured I would really be asking for trouble to push the issue.


Sorry to hear that UMP! I didn't realize it was that serious. :(

123src
01-08-2007, 08:17 PM
OK guys, here is my update...

1st off, thanks to Ric for absolutely not sending me any set screws for my new ski, or for that matter, even discussing said screws with me over the phone.
2nd, Thank you soooo much to MYMC for taking the time and explaining over the phone how to change my approach bindings from RFF to LFF, and also offering to help me if I had any more questions. (I tried to call back after the weigh in, but I guess you headed home)

Now to the Monza vs. System 8 debate. It was bugging me trying to figure out which opinion to listen to, so while I had the bindings off I decided to take the fin box off also. Eastie's earlier post suggested weighing the ski this way (Thank you) I then took my precious cargo down to the local shipping store for a non-bathroom scale weight. 3.0 pounds... weighed three times! With that info in hand I decided to just call HO and get to the bottom of this whole thing. I spoke to Dave (ski mgr, or something) and he told me that the ski was definetly a Monza. He stated a System 8 would weigh slightly over 4 pounds. I then asked him about the tip not being pointed enough to be a Monza Prototype. He said this was not a prototype ski (he did agree that some of the early Monza's were pointy tipped), it was purely a Monza with the System 8 graphic put on either "to see what it would look like" or simply "by mistake". Regardless, he also could verify by the serial number under the fin box. (kinda cool, I was surprised to see a number there when I took it off). At the end of our conversation, he basically said, your ski is considered a blemished Monza. That's cool to me.... I kinda like the fact that it looks like no one else's ski.

I must end this by saying thank you to all who posted assistance in my quest to figure out what I bought at the boat show. I'm pretty secure in knowing what I have now and i'm pretty satisfied with my steal of a purchase, IMHO. Oh yeah and thank you to H20skeefreek and Jesus freek for offering to help me unload this thing for cheap. It's always nice to know you have guys looking out for you:D :D :D

pq2
01-08-2007, 08:36 PM
congrats, im sure youre going to love that ski, enjoy it.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-08-2007, 10:19 PM
Sorry to hear that UMP! I didn't realize it was that serious. :(
Yea, unfortunatley it is that serious. :( I couldnt afford a new one, so I found a used one I could swing. unfortunately I found out later on it had the broken bolt in it. The previous owner never told me about it. Its just one of those things. I got burned by going used. Bummer of thing. So, its either ski it as is, or ditch it for something else. :rolleyes: problem is, I probably cant get my money back out of it now. I wont sell it to someone else without disclosing the broken bolt issue. I cant do that to someone. so I will take a bite in the arse on it if I sell it. whatcha think its worth like this?:confused:

PendO
01-08-2007, 11:38 PM
Yea, unfortunatley it is that serious. :( I couldnt afford a new one, so I found a used one I could swing. unfortunately I found out later on it had the broken bolt in it. The previous owner never told me about it. Its just one of those things. I got burned by going used. Bummer of thing. So, its either ski it as is, or ditch it for something else. :rolleyes: problem is, I probably cant get my money back out of it now. I wont sell it to someone else without disclosing the broken bolt issue. I cant do that to someone. so I will take a bite in the arse on it if I sell it. whatcha think its worth like this?:confused:

ump, can you post a pic of the broken bolt ... I'd likely buy the blank ski for my brother ... what about using a very small drill bit and a strong screw w/ reverse threads ... what is the diameter of the broken bolt ...

east tx skier
01-08-2007, 11:46 PM
Yea, unfortunatley it is that serious. :( I couldnt afford a new one, so I found a used one I could swing. unfortunately I found out later on it had the broken bolt in it. The previous owner never told me about it. Its just one of those things. I got burned by going used. Bummer of thing. So, its either ski it as is, or ditch it for something else. :rolleyes: problem is, I probably cant get my money back out of it now. I wont sell it to someone else without disclosing the broken bolt issue. I cant do that to someone. so I will take a bite in the arse on it if I sell it. whatcha think its worth like this?:confused:

Man, that's a bummer. Let's see a picture of it. I'll be you could just drill around it, extract it and fill with epoxy. Certainly worth a try (having not seen the pictures).

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-09-2007, 09:46 AM
I will see if I can snap a pic of it tonite. I considered the idea of drilling the entire bolt out and putting a new threaded insert in there and epoxying it. I even bought the inserts and the epoxy. But both of the machine guys I talked to were afraid to drill into it as they figured it would potentially mess up the ski as the bolt material was SO dam hard. Its a beach. We tried drilling with a small bit to use an extractor, but you cant even get the bit to grab, it just slides off the bolt, everytime. And that was using a drill press and a vice. I was ready for them to drill it out completely and fill it with a new insert and epoxy, but they both would not try it. There are 5 bolts holding the fin box to the ski, so I could just ski it and let it be. It just bugs me knowing that its there. I am sure 5 bolts will hold that fin box forever, but I just like it to be "right". But, its just they way things go sometimes. I had to buy used to get into that expensive of a ski, and I got burned. its not like its not functional, just a nuisance issue. If I could drill that beast out of there, I would just epoxy a new insert in.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-09-2007, 09:50 AM
Man, that's a bummer. Let's see a picture of it. I'll be you could just drill around it, extract it and fill with epoxy. Certainly worth a try (having not seen the pictures).
AROUND it, now THAT is something I have NOT thought of! Interesting idea Eastie. A super small hole saw would be the trick! but I dont think they make them that small. maybe just use REALLY small drill bits to drill like 8 or 10 holes around the bolt enought to get it out of there, and then epoxy it it closed. then drill the new hole and thread in the insert. thats an idea..... anybody else got any ideas?

Ric
01-09-2007, 09:57 AM
we need to see it to help ya ump

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-09-2007, 09:59 AM
we need to see it to help ya ump
I will get a picture as soon as I can. Maybe I can get one at lunch time.

shepherd
01-09-2007, 10:00 AM
..... anybody else got any ideas?

Yes. Shut up and ski! 8p :D
Ain't nothing wrong with that ski UMP. That fin ain't going nowhere with five screws and the clamp system holding it in.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-09-2007, 10:10 AM
Yes. Shut up and ski!
Ain't nothing wrong with that ski UMP. That fin ain't going nowhere with five screws and the clamp system holding it in.:D :D Shep my brutha! thats like a virtual slap in the face!:) I can take part of your advice now, but I cant ski until spring!:)

Bruce Carr
01-09-2007, 11:11 AM
Check out the "plug cutters" in the attached link. They might work cut around the insert in your ski. Just an idea....

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=33571

shepherd
01-09-2007, 11:18 AM
Just pokin' fun at ya UMP! Seriously, unless you believed the fin was moving on you, you should just leave the ski as is. You may end up doing more harm than good if the screw is that difficult to remove. That's probably why your "experts" didn't want to try.
Just my $.02...

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-09-2007, 11:25 AM
Check out the "plug cutters" in the attached link. They might work cut around the insert in your ski. Just an idea....

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=33571
looks like an idea. Thanks Bruce!:)

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-09-2007, 11:27 AM
Just pokin' fun at ya UMP! Seriously, unless you believed the fin was moving on you, you should just leave the ski as is. You may end up doing more harm than good if the screw is that difficult to remove. That's probably why your "experts" didn't want to try.
Just my $.02...
Yea, I agree. If they didnt want to mess with it, there was a valid reason for it. 5 bolts holds the sucker on there fine. no probs. just my stupid brain knowing that its broken bugs me, thats all.

thanks Shep!:)

east tx skier
01-09-2007, 11:33 AM
Send a PM to MYMC. He may have some suggestions on the viability of filling with epoxy. I patched a little chip on mine with some marine epoxy and sanded it down smooth. Good as new.

I can understand your buddies' not wanting to mess it up. You need to get it to some guys who work on skis though. They'll know better what they can get away with.

MYMC
01-09-2007, 11:41 AM
Either send me a picture or the ski...I'll either fix it or replace it but I need to see it.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-09-2007, 11:56 AM
Either send me a picture or the ski...I'll either fix it or replace it but I need to see it.
Thanks Mike PM at ya. :)

MYMC
01-09-2007, 12:11 PM
Thanks Mike PM at ya. :)
And right back at you.

123src
01-09-2007, 01:36 PM
I've been threadjacked, I believe...I mean, i've seen it happen before, but I never thought it would happen to me. You know what I mean....Maybe to the neighboor or the guy down the street, but not to me... 8p

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-09-2007, 01:44 PM
I've been threadjacked, I believe...I mean, i've seen it happen before, but I never thought it would happen to me. You know what I mean....Maybe to the neighboor or the guy down the street, but not to me...
Dude, if I post on a thread, its most likely threadjacked or in the process of it. :cool: 8p

By the way, threadjacking can happen to anyone, at anytime. Not only to your friends or guy down the street. Just like that "itch" that I got back in the 70's. I didnt think that could happen to me either. ;) guess I should not have skipped school the day they showed those movies in health class. 8p

123src
01-09-2007, 01:53 PM
oh the horror.... i guess I just didn't see it coming! Hopefully, I'll get over this incident and be better prepared for the next time. :D

Ric
01-09-2007, 02:04 PM
anybody ready for baseball?

Jesus_Freak
01-09-2007, 02:21 PM
Dude, if I post on a thread, its most likely threadjacked or in the process of it. :cool: 8p

Threadjack-age is a complete certainty on this site. For some, it is a way of life. :D

shepherd
01-09-2007, 03:22 PM
Either send me a picture or the ski...I'll either fix it or replace it but I need to see it.

Hey Mike. That Monza you sold me. I'm having trouble getting beyond 28 off on it. It must be defective. Can you fix it for me? ;)

Ric
01-09-2007, 03:37 PM
How bout them Gators

123src
01-09-2007, 04:07 PM
Thank you Ric:D

MYMC
01-09-2007, 04:39 PM
Hey Mike. That Monza you sold me. I'm having trouble getting beyond 28 off on it. It must be defective. Can you fix it for me? ;)
I thought getting you to 28 off was fixing it for you!:D
(sorry, but you did walk right into that one)

shepherd
01-09-2007, 05:01 PM
I thought getting you to 28 off was fixing it for you!:D
(sorry, but you did walk right into that one)

Yeah, I know... but you're right! :o

Upper Michigan Prostar190
01-09-2007, 05:11 PM
Hey Mike. That Monza you sold me. I'm having trouble getting beyond 28 off on it. It must be defective. Can you fix it for me? ;)
Just go straight to 43 off, that will fix it all. NO sense in screwing around. Cut to the chase:) ;)