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footerj
12-27-2006, 02:15 PM
Alright,

Have an 83 Mastercraft with the 351 Windsor power plant...Want to know what is the best oil to use for this application that is non-synthetic oil...I like valvoline, but question what type and weight to use...Also is it true that diesel oil can be used?

Come on guys help me out to put my questioning to rest!!

thanks

Byrdman
12-27-2006, 02:38 PM
I'm no expert, but I would not use diesel oil. In my old Prostar I think I use to use 10w-30. I dont believe the oil manufacturer matters that much because all the oil is manufactured to the same specs. Check here if you want to know what MC suggests...

http://www.mastercraft.com/index.php?znfAction=Manual

Slinkyredfoot
12-27-2006, 03:00 PM
According to my PC engine owners manual which is also a 351 quote "We recommend 10W30 or 20W40 or any good grade of automotive engine oil of the correct viscosity which has API class of "SE". I have always used 10W30 and have never had a problem with my engine.

sberry3827
12-27-2006, 03:51 PM
I use Valvoline 10w30 in my '85 351. The oem sticker on the valve cover actually calls for that weight.

bigmac
12-27-2006, 06:36 PM
According to my PC engine owners manual which is also a 351 quote "We recommend 10W30 or 20W40 or any good grade of automotive engine oil of the correct viscosity which has API class of "SE". I have always used 10W30 and have never had a problem with my engine.

That should API serivice classification of SE or better...

API spec SE is long gone, of course, so the application for that engine would be any 10w30 or 20w40 oil that meets API spec SL (or better).

It is true that today's multiviscosity automotive oils have less in the way of high-pressure additives (like zinc), which can be important for engines that don't use roller-cams. In that regard, I might consider using one of the diesel oils as currently recommended for today's Indmar engines (API CI-4/SL) which do have such additives, since IIRC/ICBW the 351 Windsor doesn't use rollers.

Chief
12-27-2006, 06:41 PM
I ran valvoline durablend in the 1988 Malibu I use to own and it never had a problem.

TRBenj
12-27-2006, 07:00 PM
It is true that today's multiviscosity automotive oils have less in the way of high-pressure additives (like zinc), which can be important for engines that don't use roller-cams. In that regard, I might consider using one of the diesel oils as currently recommended for today's Indmar engines (API CI-4/SL) which do have such additives, since IIRC/ICBW the 351 Windsor doesn't use rollers.

You remember correctly, the 351w used flat tappet cams up until mid 93 or 94 in Ford trucks. Im not sure if it ever went roller in the marine engines.

I have read that Valvoline Racing and Shell Rotella T both have the ZDDP additives that many new oils lack. I use Rotella T 15w40 in my 351w.

DooSPX
12-27-2006, 08:16 PM
I use Rotella T 15w40 too in my 91 351W
and DexIII in my powerslot

TMCNo1
12-27-2006, 09:08 PM
In our '89 351W since new, I run Valvoline VR-1 40WT Racing Oil,, exceeds API Service SJ/CD/SH and all preceeding API Gasoline and Diesel Catagories. Includes ZDDP Additive for added wear protection, Race Track Proven for High Performance Engines, Turbo Approved.

bigmac
12-27-2006, 09:25 PM
You remember correctly, the 351w used flat tappet cams up until mid 93 or 94 in Ford trucks. Im not sure if it ever went roller in the marine engines.

I have read that Valvoline Racing and Shell Rotella T both have the ZDDP additives that many new oils lack. I use Rotella T 15w40 in my 351w.Phosphate-based wear additives like ZDDP do great things for film-strength, but at the cost of significantly increased friction. It's one of the reasons we don't see so much of it in current passenger car-specific oils.

Hoosier Bob
12-27-2006, 09:50 PM
Do we have to use "energy Conserving" oils? Check any motorcycle oil recommendation and you will see to stay away from "energy Conserving" and I would recommend you do the same. Mobile One is not "Energy Conserving" and has the proper lubricants older engines need. Find an older oil rating, one that is not "EC" and you should be fine. Lubrication should not be a bad thing!:D

PS. Big Mac is our local Oil Guru and what he says will do even if I only sort of agree!8p

bigmac
12-27-2006, 10:01 PM
Do we have to use "energy Conserving" oils? Check any motorcycle oil recommendation and you will see to stay away from "energy Conserving" and I would recommend you do the same. Mobile One is not "Energy Conserving" and has the proper lubricants older engines need. Find an older oil rating, one that is not "EC" and you should be fine. Lubrication should not be a bad thing!:D


I agree with this. Motorcycle lubrication is a different kettle of fish and passenger car engine oil concepts don't always apply. Having said that, it's always appropriate to use the oils recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.

Hoosier Bob
12-27-2006, 10:07 PM
Why not? I am just asking what makes a motorcycle different from a vintage marine engine? Most oils will say they are recommended for motorcycles and pre 1980 automobiles? Most marine engines are very much the same as pre 1980 until 1994++. I am asking my brother from a different mother, what gives? The difference in the oil is it's lubrication and not it's energy consumption. What the heck does that mean? I have always gone slippery before ozone! Is that wrong? Enlighten me my brother!
Take care Mac!
HB

bigmac
12-27-2006, 10:18 PM
Why not? I am just asking what makes a motorcycle different from a vintage marine engine? Most oils will say they are recommended for motorcycles and pre 1980 automobiles? Most marine engines are very much the same as pre 1980 until 1994++. I am asking my brother from a different mother, what gives? The difference in the oil is it's lubrication and not it's energy consumption. What the heck does that mean? I have always gone slippery before ozone! Is that wrong? Enlighten me my brother!
Take care Mac!
HB

The power-to-weight ratio of a motorcycle makes energy conservation moot - the gains would be negligible. OTOH, higher RPMs, air cooling, etc makes film strength (wear), detergent capablility, soot control more important than a passenger car. I'd say that a motorcycle engine is in a similar category as a marine engine when it comes to extreme duty. Passenger car auto engines have it easy by comparison.

Hoosier Bob
12-27-2006, 10:21 PM
So what is your answer? C'mon say it! Say it! I am just yankin' your chain but in Marine and Cycle use Mobile One could not hurt, right?:D

Leroy
12-27-2006, 11:27 PM
footerj I hope you do not need a concensus answer anytime soon. What oil to use has been the subject of many "discussions"! :popcorn:

TRBenj
12-27-2006, 11:40 PM
Phosphate-based wear additives like ZDDP do great things for film-strength, but at the cost of significantly increased friction. It's one of the reasons we don't see so much of it in current passenger car-specific oils.

But that is exactly why oils with ZDDP additives are better for motors with flat tappet cams, correct?

bigmac
12-28-2006, 12:11 AM
But that is exactly why oils with ZDDP additives are better for motors with flat tappet cams, correct?Yes. In that situation, reduced wear (film strength) is more important than lubricity.

bigmac
12-28-2006, 12:25 AM
So what is your answer? C'mon say it! Say it! I am just yankin' your chain but in Marine and Cycle use Mobile One could not hurt, right?:DI've said it before, HB -- there's nothing wrong with Mobil 1. However, there isn't a Mobil 1 that's suitable for current Indmar engines according to Indmar...You could use Mobil Delvac Super 1300...which is marketed as synthetic, but may not really be (neither is Mobil 1...see below).

Now...be aware that most so-called synthetic oils marketed in this country are actually made from group III base stocks, which are mineral oils (like, from dinosaurs), not synthetic. Calling an oil 'synthetic' is a slippery marketing slope with a lot of loopholes. Only a very few oils are true synthetics -- that is, made from group IV and group V base stocks. Mobil 1 is not in that category (I'm 99% sure)...it's actually made from highly processed mineral oil. OTOH, AFAIK Amsoil is indeed fully synthetic - its group IV base being chemically built polyalphaolefin (PAO). FYI...

It's all in the marketing, y'see...;)

Workin' 4 Toys
12-28-2006, 10:01 AM
Alright,

Have an 83 Mastercraft with the 351 Windsor power plant...Want to know what is the best oil to use for this application that is non-synthetic oil...I like valvoline, but question what type and weight to use...Also is it true that diesel oil can be used?

Come on guys help me out to put my questioning to rest!!

thanks
Check this thread out....;)
Is it really that good, click here (http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=11821)

Workin' 4 Toys
12-28-2006, 10:06 AM
So what is your answer? C'mon say it! Say it! I am just yankin' your chain but in Marine and Cycle use Mobile One could not hurt, right?:D
It could..:rolleyes: . If its -40 degrees and you start it an bring it right up to 8K rpm.... At that point do you wonder if its "knocking" because of oil failure...


HB..Try this stuff..It has yet to cause me any catastrophic engine failure to date..

airdrew99
12-29-2006, 07:27 AM
Rotella T 15W-40 is the only way to go. I run it in my 95 F-150 (4.9L I-6), 68 Mustang (351W), my old 84 MasterCraft (351W), and my new 91 Prostar 190 (351W). I also have an uncle that drives pulling trucks that run about 1300-1400 horsepower. He runs Rotella T 15W-40 in his Peterbuilt, F-350 Powerstroke, and his pulling trucks.

Workin' 4 Toys
12-29-2006, 08:46 AM
Alright,

Have an 83 Mastercraft with the 351 Windsor power plant...Want to know what is the best oil to use for this application that is non-synthetic oil...I like valvoline, but question what type and weight to use...Also is it true that diesel oil can be used?

Come on guys help me out to put my questioning to rest!!

thanks
I need to know, did you get the answer you were looking for?

bigmac
12-29-2006, 09:50 AM
I need to know, did you get the answer you were looking for?

:D

He likes Valvoline - he could use Valvoline Premium Blue (http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=112)(if he can find it) which would be every bit as good as Rotella T, Mobil Delvac, Pennzoil. It's all the same. Obsessing over a particular brand of motor oil is a fruitless endeavor.

http://www.valvoline.com/images/products/productpages/bottle_bot_VV389.jpg

jay
09-30-2011, 03:34 PM
BIGMAC is correct; motorcycle and marine engines could both be considered extreme duty but are different kettles of fish. Motorcycle and marine engine loadings are different in that motorcycles coast downhill from time to time. Our 351s operate under constant load or at idle. Marine engines are essentially climbing a perpetual hill when underway. That is why the combustion chamber temps are higher, while the overall engine temps are generally higher in non-marine applications than our 143/160 thermostats. I have read [ref needed] that is due to the thermal precipitation that occurs in salt water at higher temperatures, but that is a different topic and thread. In any case both engines are extreme-duty, but the two different applications yield different duty cycles, rpm ranges and loads.


So, engine oils blended for marine use could have a slight formulation advantage in marine environments vs. motorcycle, auto, or even diesel oils. However, I am not suggesting that you cannot or should not use non-marine oil. To the contrary, Richard at SKIDIM advised that they use SAE 40 weight from NAPA in their shop and recommends the Valvoline VR-1 in 20W50 for the Fords. I agree, VR-1 will work great with our cams and provide excellent protection amidst the summer heat. However, if you are storing for a long northern winter there may be a corrosion inhibition issue with using automotive grade race oil formulated with fewer detergents for shorter change intervals. That is contrary to marine oils formulations and some HD diesel oils that are designed to sit for long periods between use aka to better disperse condensation buildup.


Both my Inmar and MC manuals spec straight SAE 30, which is an older spec from what is used today. I believe it was stated in this thread that some manuals for PCM marinized 351s recommend any quality automotive 10W30 or 10W40. I called Indmar last year and they concurred that the SAE 30 spec is out dated even for the 351s. They recommended ONLY using conventional Pennzoil brand Heavy Duty Marine 15W40 oil. That was a pretty specific recommendation not to mention the guy I spoke to sounded like he was there when Dick Rowe founded the company, in that he didn’t shutter or even think about it. It was one of those “you gotta’ what motor…uh-huh…what year?” … “well, you should only to use…”


WINGNUT over at the chaparral boats forum posted this insightful nugget of info on the topic at hand:
http://forum.chaparralboats.com/index.php?showtopic=13471


Over at Bob is THE Oil Guy forums, they have 37 threads to date dealing with “Boat/PWC Lubrication”
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=13&page=1


So, the fact that we can use just about any ZDDP rich oil in our engines doesn’t necessarily mean we should or should not use "marine" grade oil. However, I am sure the boats that see multiple thousands of hours are not using $3/qt generic auto parts store branded conventional oil once a year. I have seen one MC see north of 5000hrs with the original Indmar 351 power plant; he was using Mobile 1 15W50 EP from day one.


Initially, I followed the Indmar manual and reluctantly used the Pennzoil HD Marine SAE 30 oil, in lieu of knowing what the best oil would be for my 93. After 50 hours of use and 200 hours of hillbilly research, I decided that Amsoil Marine oil has the correct ZDDP levels for flat tappet cams, is available in the acceptable viscosities (10W30 & 10W40), has the detergent package needed for the Oct to May storage here in VA, and is "fully synthetic" (if that counts to you). It is also readily available to me since they have a warehouse is less than an hour from my home, shipping time is 1-2-day depending on when the order is submitted.