PDA

View Full Version : touchy situation, need advice


rodltg2
11-29-2006, 09:19 PM
i have a friend that i have known since college about 12 years now.
he's alway been a bit of a party animal and enjoys his beer like most carpenters do. although not the most responsible he has always been a good friend. about 4 months ago he stopped hanging out with us. not answering his phone or returning calls very often. i didnt much of it, since he said he had been busy . yesterday was his birthday so i called him to see if he wanted to go out and have some fun. his wife was transferred out of town and he had not moved there yet so he was alone. well he showed up at my house last night and he looked like sheit. his face look real skinny and he looked like he lost a ton of weight. he was all excited to tell me about his new business of fixing and selling lawn mowers. ( he used to be a contractor/hanyman) i immedialty though he was on drugs.. i was right. seeems like he's ready to hit rock bottom. his wife had moved , but i was unaware that he did not keep a place. apparently moved in to a storage contianer at some yard where he's been keeping the lawn mowers. he told me that he has decided carpentry was not for him anymore and he wanted to gamble and sell mowers now. has no money and doing some kind crack everyday.
i imagine he has dabbled in it before but never got this bad till now. ive never dealt with somehting like this before so i dont know what to do to help. when confronted last night about it he was less than happy to talk about it. i called his wife and told her whats going on and that she needs to get him some help now... i dont think he will listen to his friends so i dont know what to do...any advice.??

Jeff Lyman
11-29-2006, 09:31 PM
Be the best friend he has ever had.

Good luck you both will need it.

Hoosier Bob
11-29-2006, 09:32 PM
Wow! Been there but with more of a bud in the same profession as yours that lived next door. Wife finally left and he shows up in much the same condition. I was not much help but looking back if I had not accepted his current condition, empathised and steered him in the right direction I would know where he is today. My buddy was always a little extreme. Smoked early and often even when he was in control. I myself have never been one to do anything but Beer! But some succomb much deeper and it is scary no matter how long you have known them. You should seek some professional advice and if you can create real change do it but if you can't you may need to distance yourself from him. Tough choices my friend and something that I may have failed at when I was presented the opportunity.
HB

stumbledog
11-29-2006, 09:55 PM
The sad thing is, there is not much you can do until this friend wants help or smacks bottom so damn hard he has no choice but to get help.

Does the wife want to help him? Does he have family that want to help? An intervention may do the trick here. At least get him into treatment, get him sober, and give him a chance at turning his life around.

Cocaine is a mother to kick for those who have become addicted.

mitch
11-29-2006, 09:55 PM
Rod, Rally some mutual buds and get him into rahab. It'll be tough to get him thru this w/o that as a 1st step. Good luck to ya....

Hoosier Bob
11-29-2006, 10:01 PM
Not to sound like a clown but this forum has been a very trustworthy source for help from impellors to what we have here. Ten years ago I think it would have helped with my situation. Just saying you guys are always more helpful than hurtful! Keeping the family!:o
HB

DrNautica
11-29-2006, 10:05 PM
Be a friend... but be a tough friend.

Your buddy needs help. Actually he may be screaming for it even if silently. There are all kinds of programs to help with this type of thing. If you're in a major metro, try contacting NARCONON or try calling the United Way (they fund many treatment senters and can recommend.)

Good luck to you and your friend.

6ballsisall
11-29-2006, 10:06 PM
Be what a best friend does whether it's comfortable or not. Do an intervention and get him into a rehab clinic asap. That stuff is dangerous, it will kill.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
11-29-2006, 10:13 PM
Get him help. Fast.

Hoosier Bob
11-29-2006, 10:15 PM
Where is BigMac when you need him? Be patient Rod as I feel the answer is right around the corner. Do what you can to support your friend and not the addiction until some answers are in reach.:o

Carbon Dreams
11-29-2006, 10:15 PM
This situation reminds me of my best friend (previous). Everyone is different so advice is just that, advice. Are you sure he is not on Meth? If so, he probably will not survive too much longer. Here is what I have learned.

1. Users are not friends. They will steal from their own family to support their habit.
2. Be cautious if you have family when bringing him into your house. They can be very unpredictable if drugs are in the system.
3. Let him know that you are there for him when he is ready to clean up his life.
4. Invite him to go to church with you and introduce him to the pastor. Make sure to let the pastor know the situation. This will sometimes "ring the bell".

Be an unconditional friend, just do not jeopardize your own well being. If you really want to get involved, go and get some professional advice. If he is a good friend before drugs, and you don't want to lose him, they will give you a plan of attack.

For me, I chose not to expose my wife and kids to the insanity of drugs. So, I don't see him any more. He knows the phone number and all he has to do is call when he is clean.

Good Luck!

victorff
11-29-2006, 10:28 PM
Same thing happpened a little closer to me, my brother. We are close so it was hard to watch the addiction destroy his life. After trying OD, loosing his job, loosing his house, almost loosing his kids, he then realized that Meth wasn't worth all that he had lost. The problem is no matter how you want or try to help, they have to reach bottom before they want the help. He been clean for 3yrs., he has custody of the kids, bought a house. Bottom line he'll want the help when he's ready.
Goodluck Rod.

88 PS190
11-29-2006, 10:32 PM
I'd see if there are any good local programs, have a plan.

I'd avoid bringing him to your house, hate to say it but seeing things that could be sold, and needing money... it'd be the drugs not the person.

rodltg2
11-29-2006, 10:34 PM
thanks for all the advice so far....i can alwasy count on this forum to give me info on just about anything...
i think an interevention among friends would be very helpful. the only thing would be to get him to show up. i dont even know where to find him. his wife would be the best bet. she was very shocked when i told her what was going on , although she suspected something..

i dont know what his drug of choice is, all i know is that he is tweakin hard. its sad to see what has happend , he lost his boat and the oppurtunity to buy a house. he used to do alot of demo work for me until he stopped showing up. i know from just the work i gave him we paid him about about 65k last year. i imagine his addiction has been going on for awhile but it didnt get really bad unitl 4 months ago.

i want to be a good friend but im also worried about what he may do if his situation gets worse. i was going to hire him to do some work on my house but i dont think thats a good idea now..

east tx skier
11-29-2006, 10:36 PM
Rod, I've been there with a close friend of mine. All the above advice is good. Be tough, get your and his friends together, and get the guy into serious rehab. Not sure what's available near you, but there's what's supposed to be a really good one in Minnesota. My friend had a bad heroin problem. What you described sounds like just what I saw. She was a smart girl and working toward her masters in accounting. She eventually got through school, but not before several relapses, rehab, more rehab, relapse, rehab, rock bottom, more rehab ... you get the picture. There are pictures of her from our wedding, and she's a waif.

Now, she's completely clean (no cigarettes, no booze, no nothing). But it took her almost nine years to get there. I doubt most are so fortunate. She had a strong group of friends and family.

Be tough. Be rigid. Be willing to listen. But get this guy professional help.

Hoosier Bob
11-29-2006, 10:39 PM
Take care Rod and do what you can. Helping in anyway you can has to be better than the path I chose. Hard decisions are ahead but the harder the better. If you can afford the time bring him in (WORK) and monitor with mutual goals in mind. Once again do not go alone. Friends, family and professionals should be able to support yourself and your friend. You BU lover you!
Take care Rod!
HB

Farmer Ted
11-29-2006, 10:39 PM
It sounds like you took a step in the right direction by calling his wife

she may already know and that could be the reason she doesn't live there any longer. She may have chosen to remove herself (and kids?) from a no-win situation

If it were me, I'd try and steer him towards some sort of rehab program

I would also recommend speaking to someone who deals with this on a day to day basis, there are lots of great ideas being passed around here but I'm not sure if anyone here is a drug/alcohol counselor. A professional will be able to give you a good course of action to take to get your pal the help he needs.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
11-29-2006, 10:40 PM
East, whats a "waif"...???:confused: :confused:

Hoosier Bob
11-29-2006, 10:41 PM
I had the same question but instead of MILF I thought Waitress!East, whats a "waif"...???:confused: :confused:

east tx skier
11-29-2006, 10:43 PM
East, whats a "waif"...???:confused: :confused:

Waif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waif).

Strung out looking. Weighed about 100 lbs. Track marks on her arms and elsewhere (hidden by long sleeves). Trying her best to act normal, but probably going crazy from the itch. It was a messed up situation. Had never had to deal with someone with that problem and hope never to have to deal with it again.

Carbon Dreams
11-29-2006, 10:43 PM
If he is on Meth, you will know soon. Man, I hope not. My wife's cousin ruined her and her kids life using Meth. They will never recover.

Click on the first link to see the effects of Meth.

http://www.co.multnomah.or.us/sheriff/faces_of_meth.htm

http://meth-kills.com/

http://www.stopmethaddiction.com/drugrehabstate.htm?state=California

Upper Michigan Prostar190
11-29-2006, 10:44 PM
Waif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waif).

Strung out looking. Weighed about 100 lbs. Track marks on her arms and elsewhere (hidden by long sleeves). Trying her best to act normal, but probably going crazy from the itch.
wow. sad. we dont see that sort of thing to often up here. it does exist here, but not much. I have never seen anyone that bad. sad...

east tx skier
11-29-2006, 10:46 PM
wow. sad. we dont see that sort of thing to often up here. it does exist here, but not much. I have never seen anyone that bad. sad...

That was actually an up moment in the process. My wife and I attended her wedding recently. I wouldn't call it a full recovery as I would guess that sort of thing holds demons that will always haunt the person. But she's leading a normal life and has for several years.

Leroy
11-29-2006, 10:53 PM
Tough situation as all of these are. I bet everyone that survives has someone that was tough with them. I think you have to take a chance but still protect yourself. Professional help is really needed also.

6ballsisall
11-29-2006, 10:55 PM
Rod, I'll add that one of my lil sis's got caught up in drunks real bad. She did just about everything under the sun for about a 2 year stint. My family all tried to help her, she went to live with my grandparents, mom and dad made her go take drug tests weekly when she moved back home (the first time :rolleyes: ) but with all that, it never really worked. Until we took the VERY hardline approach with her about her getting clean (it wasn't pretty) she never got clean.

I can first hand tell you, she's 24 now and while I love her she'll never be the same. What hard drugs does to your mind and your body over time is absolutely unbelievable. They say drugs stops you from maturing and I believe it, she's 24 but about as mature as a 16-17 year old. She still struggles with her people skills and has the attention span of our labrador.

Why am I telling you all this??? The longer he's on drugs and doesn't get clean, the worse it will get. From experience I'd say the only thing that works is a hardline approach at him getting clean.

Hoosier Bob
11-29-2006, 11:05 PM
Sorry Jeff. Tough to read. Amazing how many are affected. Once again when it hits the family it is way out of my league.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
11-29-2006, 11:11 PM
Wow Jeff. I dont know what to say. thats sad man. :( wow....

dapicatti
11-29-2006, 11:11 PM
Rod- good advice here. Make sure and keep him away from your home and anything worth any cash....ask anyone who has known an addict. Things disappear, or worse.

6ballsisall
11-29-2006, 11:17 PM
Rod- good advice here. Make sure and keep him away from your home and anything worth any cash....ask anyone who has known an addict. Things disappear, or worse.

Your right, my sis cleaned my parents out many a times. She cleaned me out too and at the time I was a poor college kid trying to get by. It's not the person doing it, it's completely the drugs. Their appetite for drugs gets to be incredible, they will get violent if something gets in the way of them getting their fix.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
11-29-2006, 11:19 PM
Your right, my sis cleaned my parents out many a times. She cleaned me out too and at the time I was a poor college kid trying to get by. It's not the person doing it, it's completely the drugs. Their appetite for drugs gets to be incredible, they will get violent if something gets in the way of them getting their fix.
That must be freakin incredible to have to watch someone you love go thru that.....:( :( :(

east tx skier
11-29-2006, 11:20 PM
Rod, I'll add that one of my lil sis's got caught up in drunks real bad. She did just about everything under the sun for about a 2 year stint. My family all tried to help her, she went to live with my grandparents, mom and dad made her go take drug tests weekly when she moved back home (the first time :rolleyes: ) but with all that, it never really worked. Until we took the VERY hardline approach with her about her getting clean (it wasn't pretty) she never got clean.

I can first hand tell you, she's 24 now and while I love her she'll never be the same. What hard drugs does to your mind and your body over time is absolutely unbelievable. They say drugs stops you from maturing and I believe it, she's 24 but about as mature as a 16-17 year old. She still struggles with her people skills and has the attention span of our labrador.

Why am I telling you all this??? The longer he's on drugs and doesn't get clean, the worse it will get. From experience I'd say the only thing that works is a hardline approach at him getting clean.

Yep. That's what ultimately got to my friend, too. Unyielding in your resolve that they get clean. But the family was always there for her when she decided she needed help and was ready to be helped. It was a back and forth process for a long time.

... and the stealing. Yep. She did that, too. I remember getting the call from her cousin that they'd kicked her out again and to expect a call (it never came as I'd moved a couple of times). But the ground rules were, don't give her a place to stay and don't give her any money.

LakePirate
11-29-2006, 11:21 PM
Unless you know different I would agree with Carbon that it sounds like Meth. A guy I knew from college showed up at a party this summer, looked like crap, his teeth were rotting/rotted out of his head. He is using meth. There is some hope if you can get him off of it.

Hoping for the best for your friend.

LakePirate
11-29-2006, 11:22 PM
JR - sorry to hear that about your sis. I hope she can overcome all of the challenges that face her.

dapicatti
11-29-2006, 11:29 PM
That must be freakin incredible to have to watch someone you love go thru that.....:( :( :(
I can't imagine how painful that must have been. I hope she is well, or trying to get that way. I wish your family the best in this.

Bobbyk
11-29-2006, 11:35 PM
I have a 26 year old sister who has had similar problems. It is very sad to see a 26 year old person with a mental capacity of a 15 year old, who is still a total dependent on their parents. who is unable to be honest with themselves about their situation. It is hard to make someone you care about take a hard & honest assesment of their problem. I hope you can help your friend it won't be easy.

6ballsisall
11-29-2006, 11:37 PM
That must be freakin incredible to have to watch someone you love go thru that.....:( :( :(

Yep it was really tough. I wanted to hate her, it was really putting a strain on our family in all areas and it seemed like she didn't care (it was the drugs though.) The silver lining is my youngest sis and I both never so much as even went to a party where drugs were present much less tried them. Seeing what it did to her and our family we both vowed to never be around it at all. I am really proud of my her, she was seriously dating a guy who started to get caught up in Marijuana. After a 3 year relationship that looked promising she dumped him like a bad habit when he wouldn't quit.

Jennifer (sis who did drugs) is really just now trying to get her life together. The last few years she's kind of been a dud. Barely able to hold minimum wage hourly jobs, jumps from boyfriend to boyfriend etc....... You see, drugs also does an incredible number on your self esteem.

She's been in college now a LONG time trying to get focused and she's off and on again with school. She's actually doing some work at the local schools watching kids who are autistic. Her first couple months she worked at a school where displaced kids had to go. (Horrible family lives.) A lot of these kids were crack babies, had parents that got caught up in drugs, just all kinds of stuff you and I would never comprehend. A 9 year old kid in that school who was also found to be on heroin tried to rape her her second day working there. (hehehe, he didn't know Jennifer is one tough cookie :D ) Anyway, I think actually seeing how bad drugs messed up these kids really hit home to her and might be the reason she's really making an effort to get her life going someplace.

Back to Rods situation. Get him, no force help on him.

Sodar
11-29-2006, 11:47 PM
Sorry to hear about your problem Rod. I have dealt with this on a smaller scale, but none the less an addiction. The key to remember is that as much as you want to have a huge effect on the path your buddy takes, it is very difficult to change the thought process. You also must learn that helping him out, inb most cases is facilitating the habit and will actually hinder him from getting help. So needless to say, as much as you want to help him by providing work, money and other assistance, you need to realise that he needs to take responsibilty and hopefully he will ask himself what he is doing. Unfortunately, most addicts must hit rock bottom and have some moment that makes them think "Hey, I need to get my sh!t together." All you can do is hope that this moment of clarity happens sooner, rather than later, possibily after it is too late!

Good Luck with everything and know that you and your friend are in my thoughts!

PendO
11-30-2006, 12:31 AM
His wife moved away and he is living in a storage unit ??? ... I would have no clue as to what to do, but if I was in your situation I would probably go down to a place like the Union Gospel Mission or The Salvation Army or another organization that deals w/ homeless individuals and see what resources or advice they may have ... almost sounds like a "meth" issue ... not that it matters what the drug is ... hopefully you can get him to see the need for help and the preciousness of life.

jimmer2880
11-30-2006, 06:43 AM
After dealing with it first hand with my sister in the past, and currently my brother-in-law, I can say it WILL do a number on anyone who tries to help. I don't have the golden parachute answer. What I will say is like others have said, rock bottom must be found. In my cases, it must be found several times. Unfortunately, in my sister's case, she never 100% got out of the rut she dug. We tried everything with her until the day she died. While we did find ways to deal with her that seemed to make it get better, the end result was never reached. We would show the hard-line, then praise her when she did something good. Almost like working with a 3 year old.

H20skeefreek
11-30-2006, 06:46 AM
I went through a similar situation with my best friend from High School. This guy refused to quit, and refused to even talk to anyone about it. I don't even know what his situation is now (in relation to drugs). He's occasionally in the news, as he is in professional sports, so obviously this guys problems aren't as bad as your friends, but nonetheless, the drugs destroyed all of his friendships and family. His freshman year of college, he got a 15 year old girl pregnant, they eventually got married, but later divorced. He remarried, and hopefully this new woman in his life got him straightened out. I had to cut all ties with him for my own safety. I'd think he had cleaned up, and we'd drive somewhere together, then I'd see him pop some pills, or drop some acid, and he wouldn't let me drive. It got to the point that it wasn't safe, or fun to be around him. I loved him, but being around him was dangerous.

Get him help if he'll take it, but if he won't, keep him away. Do NOT help him with money, or a place to stay, don't even send him business. It will only give him money to feed his habit, and ruin your reputation as well. And make it clear, that he cannot come to your home or to your place of business. What he needs is emotional support, encouragment and love, but tough love.

I don't know if you go to church or not, but that would definately help him if you could get him to one. There is a man who came from Nazereth specifically to save us from our ills, that would surely be willing to help him in his troubled time. All he has to do is ask.

kycat2007
11-30-2006, 09:56 AM
You may try to contact some of these groups to see what info they can give you

http://www.cocainehelp.org/

http://www.drug-rehab-center.org/California.htm

http://www.addictionca.com/

They may be able to help you have a intervention.

sanjuan23
11-30-2006, 10:23 AM
Okay so not to steal from Rod's issue here but I debated throwing this out there for the past couple of days. My younger brother has had (still having) substance issues. Obviously Meth is the hell he has gotten himself back into as of the past couple of weeks. He had an extreme melt down on Sunday, extreme paranoia it was absolutely the scariest thing I have had to deal with to date. So bad in fact I called the police in hopes they would drag him to the mental health facility for fear of his life and my mother's. For the last year he has been in and out of my mother's house dissappearing from time to time California, Las Vegas, Florida etc. No money no ability to hold onto a job. After what I thought was a good heart to heart I find out that he had stolen over 700.00 out of my moms account. Well yesterday Mom goes home and tells him he has no choice get the hell out of the house and took out a criminal trespass against him. I fear for his safety but I cannot allow this to continue until he hits absolute rock bottom. All of his friends have abandoned him and now his family. It seems impossible to help someone that cannot determine that they have a real problem. So for now I just hope and pray that he can come to terms with his problem and reach out for professional help. But until then he has no part of my life or family. Truly a sad situation for anyone involved with any of these issues.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
11-30-2006, 10:40 AM
It seems impossible to help someone that cannot determine that they have a real problem. This is how I feel too. No matter what the problem. Gambling, drugs, alcohol, health, weight. everything. I have had a relative that had a serious gambling problem, very serious. Not gonna get into details, but it was major. that relative never admitted a problem. not to this day. it was always "somone else's fault". to our(the extended family) knowledge, she has not gambled since, but hasnt been the same either. People need to want to change their lives. we cant change them for them. I know that from losing weight. I had to make that decision myself. My family, friends, doctor, they all tried to get me to lose weight. I couldnt until Iwas ready to, and wanted to do it for myself. I have 2 family members that have weight issues, and I sure wish I could convince them to do sometihng aoubt it. Both have lost weight previously, but gained it back. I cant make them do it, they need to WANT to help themselves and do it. This is the same for any problem or addiction. we cant do it for them, they need to WANT to HELP themselves and improve. once they decide, then we can truly help them as family and friends. In a case were serious drugs are present, there is a danger issue, and sometimes an intervention must be made for their safety. but to truly solve the problem, they need to WANT to improve.

Ric
11-30-2006, 11:21 AM
wow rodl, I have never had a situation like obviously many of you can relate to rods friend. I have little tolerance for lack of self control but cannot say what I'd do if a good friend fell into this. Im sure the story has more details but how the hell did his own wife leave town and not know what he was doing? I have a buddy that is a narc officer and the stories I hear fit your picture of this guy. You know he knows you have money so watch yourass and help where you can as it appears that he is not in control right now.

SkiDog
11-30-2006, 11:25 AM
UMP, you hit the nail square on the head! You can't help someone UNLESS they want to help themselves. I went thru a similar situation with my ex-wife. I put up with her drinking for about as long as I could stand it. Then finally, I had enough, kicked her out on our daughters
3rd birthday. I still feel to this day, that if I hadn't done that, then she would be dead today. But to this day, she still has a problem. She knows she is an alcoholic, and had tried to kick the habit, and has done pretty good, but every now & then, she still falls off the wagon! What I'm saying here is that actually hitting ROCK BOTTOM is different for everybody. I sure thought that when I took my daughter from her, that this would be THE wake up call she needed to realize how bad she actually was! But no, it went on far long after that. Drugs and alcohol are powerful chemicals! Its different for everybody, and I hope for Rod's friend sake, he realizes just what is happening to him, and will seek the PROFESSIONAL help he so desperately needs. Rod, hang in there for as long as you can stand it. Seems to me like the guy is lonely, and that, I feel, is one of the main reasons people turn to drugs and booze. Then, if they can't control their intake, it just overtakes them, and that is so sad. Good luck my friend!

phecksel
11-30-2006, 11:45 AM
My take is a hard line tough love approach. When your "former" friend asks for help, it's time to help him. And this help should only be to drive him to a rehab center. Any other help is only hindering his recovery or even co-dependence.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
11-30-2006, 11:52 AM
everyone keeps talking about "Rock bottom", reminds me of Stevie Ray Vaughn's story. his breakfast used to be cocaine dissolved in jack daniels, every day. it finally rotted his stomach. he was walking down the street one day with his band, and started puking up blood. his first reaction was "I need a drink". His drummer said, "man, you DONT need any drink." and Stevie said. "I know I dont need one, but I "NEED" one." anyway, he landed in the hospital. he had hit his "rock bottom" he later said he had two options: 1. to really stayed drugged up so much he couldnt feel pain until it killed him, or 2. Get clean, for real and for life. He chose #2 and got clean. because HE wanted to. No cop, no doctor, no friend, no band, no fan, no manager, no record company, no family, no social worker, made that decision. Stevie did. HE knew what he had to do to stay alive, and he chose to do it.

Ever hear the story of Robbin Crosy, guitarist for RATT? it wasnt a good one. he didnt make it. I read a detailed story of his demise written by someone close to him. very sad.

RexDog1
11-30-2006, 12:27 PM
All good advice here
I lived with a friend that had a bad drug/alcohol problem in college
We thought he would be dead in a year, we did everything we could
To clean him up,treatment center, about 10 interventions……
It did no good night after night…. after night long talks tuff love..
Hiding alcohol even physical fighting with him
All of it did no good, he was at rock bottom, and it was putting a big strain
An all of his friends, he had no family left, so we were it
I know every person is looking for different things when they turn to drugs
But after living with this for a over a year, I know if they do not want help, they will not clean up, you can be there for him, and let him know this
You can try treatment center and interventions
but if he is not ready for it ……..I don’t know???
Be there for him…….

My friend after 1½ years of heavy drugs uses, he woke up one day and ask me for help!!!!! He has been clean for 20 years now with wife, 2 kids and a good life

It is not easy to be a friend at this time, but is this not the time to be one