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View Full Version : Need some help presenting MC to our lake board....


RobertT
11-21-2006, 01:41 PM
Currently on our lake they only allow 4.3L I/Os up to 20'4".

Ski boats are allowed, but only if they are USA Waterski approved, less than 351C.I., under 3,000lbs, no ballast.

We are presenting arguments to the board requesting that they entertain allowing Vdrive boats (which are currently not legal nor meet USAWS approval).

My argument is that if they allow a 20'4" Cobalt that is 4,300lbs and can go over 50 mph, why not allow a Maristar 200?????

We have a pretty good list, but wanted to pull from the considerable mental resources of this board for good arguments.

so far, we have:

1. Goes slower
2. Safer (prop under boat)
3. Safer for other boats (no bow rise, with underpowered I/O you cant see squat for 10 seconds)
4. Less wake, exspecially when compared to the Cobalt getting up to planing speed.
5. Less emissions, due to newer engine and less fuel consumption at cruising speed.
6. Family friendly seating arrangement.



Help all, any other ideas?

Ric
11-21-2006, 01:53 PM
Currently on our lake they only allow 4.3L I/Os up to 20'4".

Ski boats are allowed, but only if they are USA Waterski approved, less than 351C.I., under 3,000lbs, no ballast.

We are presenting arguments to the board requesting that they entertain allowing Vdrive boats (which are currently not legal nor meet USAWS approval).

My argument is that if they allow a 20'4" Cobalt that is 4,300lbs and can go over 50 mph, why not allow a Maristar 200?????

We have a pretty good list, but wanted to pull from the considerable mental resources of this board for good arguments.

so far, we have:

1. Goes slower
2. Safer (prop under boat)
3. Safer for other boats (no bow rise, with underpowered I/O you cant see squat for 10 seconds)
4. Less wake, exspecially when compared to the Cobalt getting up to planing speed.
5. Less emissions, due to newer engine and less fuel consumption at cruising speed.
6. Family friendly seating arrangement.



Help all, any other ideas? this topic oughta raise some interesting wintertime chatter

RobertT
11-21-2006, 01:58 PM
Yea, couldn't hurt. Seriously though, there are so many people out there that have the Cobalt or Regal I/O with the 4.3 that would kill for an X2 or Maristar. Just doesn't make sense not to allow them.

shepherd
11-21-2006, 02:14 PM
What was the purpose of the original rules? One thing I see is that they want to restrict the use of large 8-cylinder engines, making a concession only for tournament ski boats to satisfy the die-hard skier lobby. This may be interpreted by opponents as a "they give an inch, you want a mile" scenario.

What about noise? That (along with speed) may be one reason they originally restricted engine size. If you can show that your inboard v-drive is no louder than a 6 cyl I/O, that would help. Not sure if the numbers would be in your favor though...

What about outboards, waverunners and pontoon boats? Are they allowed? Just curious.

shepherd
11-21-2006, 02:15 PM
there are so many people out there that have the Cobalt or Regal I/O with the 4.3 that would kill for an X2 or Maristar.

If that's the case, you shouldn't have a problem to get the votes you need to change the rules, or replace the board members who oppose it... (?)

skeeler
11-21-2006, 02:32 PM
Move......

RobertT
11-21-2006, 02:35 PM
What was the purpose of the original rules? One thing I see is that they want to restrict the use of large 8-cylinder engines, making a concession only for tournament ski boats to satisfy the die-hard skier lobby. This may be interpreted by opponents as a "they give an inch, you want a mile" scenario.

What about noise? That (along with speed) may be one reason they originally restricted engine size. If you can show that your inboard v-drive is no louder than a 6 cyl I/O, that would help. Not sure if the numbers would be in your favor though...

What about outboards, waverunners and pontoon boats? Are they allowed? Just curious.

You have it right on. They did make a concession for the die-hard skiers and really didnt like that. Noise is a big issue, and our inboards are MUCH louder than any I/O. Don't want to bring that one up.

Outboards are limited to 125hp, no wave runners, pontoon boats are fine up to 125hp, no jet boats. No boats longer than 20'4" or shorter than 16'. No ballast of any kind allowed, max speed on the lake is 40mph although the water patrol works for us so no tickets are issued.

The problem is that like most lakes, there are a ton of older retired men that only own pontoon boats and would love to lock down the lake to 40hp pontoons. Those men always show up in force to any meeting, while the majority is not represented well. Not many people are willing to give up an evening to get grilled about a boat they will probably never own. Not many people are willing to spend 60 grand on a Vdrive when they can get a larger boat that handles chop better (Cobalt) for 20 grand less.

Only a select few know why we want them, and its a hard fight.

RobertT
11-21-2006, 02:38 PM
Move......

Truth is that I probably wouldn't even buy one. I love my boat, and I love the fact that we can slalom, barefoot, do anything with my X7. I live on the lake, so I dont need to have 10 people on my boat. We pass my dock every ten minutes.

However, and this is the personal reason why I want to see the change, I can see my next boat perhaps being a Vdrive the way things are going. Its all about having more options in the future bro!

Jesus_Freak
11-21-2006, 02:44 PM
...Those men always show up in force to any meeting, while the majority is not represented well. Not many people are willing to give up an evening...

I have found this with community board meetings as well. The majority are certainly not represented. It makes for a tough battle.

beatle78
11-21-2006, 03:56 PM
I have dealt with similar issues w/ my lake board (I'm on it).

First, I would try to get people that would vote in your favor on the board.... yourself included. Start making calls and get your friends on the ballot for the upcoming elections (we do ours in January). A LOT of times only the old people with nothing better to do are on the board. You need to pull in some younger candidates.

Second, You mean to tell me that the new Indmar w. the cat. converter gives off higher emmisions that a 1992 4.3 L that requires 1qt of oil each day before you use it?

3rd, I have an '01 205V that is MUCH quieter than my '01 BU DD with no silencer. So why is the DD allowed and not the quieter V drive?

4th, remember people are STUPID! Meaning they make decisions without knowing the facts(I'm guilty of this as well sometimes). You need to present the facts in such a way that they feel obligated to vote yes b/c it would be irresponsible not to. Just be careful they don't decide to ban all Ski.Wakeboard boats.

good luck.
beatle78

RobertT
11-21-2006, 05:13 PM
I have dealt with similar issues w/ my lake board (I'm on it).

First, I would try to get people that would vote in your favor on the board.... yourself included. Start making calls and get your friends on the ballot for the upcoming elections (we do ours in January). A LOT of times only the old people with nothing better to do are on the board. You need to pull in some younger candidates.

Second, You mean to tell me that the new Indmar w. the cat. converter gives off higher emmisions that a 1992 4.3 L that requires 1qt of oil each day before you use it?

3rd, I have an '01 205V that is MUCH quieter than my '01 BU DD with no silencer. So why is the DD allowed and not the quieter V drive?

4th, remember people are STUPID! Meaning they make decisions without knowing the facts(I'm guilty of this as well sometimes). You need to present the facts in such a way that they feel obligated to vote yes b/c it would be irresponsible not to. Just be careful they don't decide to ban all Ski.Wakeboard boats.

good luck.
beatle78

You bring up a good point. Noise could/would seal the deal, but why on earth would a Vdrive be quieter than a I/O or DD?

justinlkgb
11-21-2006, 05:17 PM
Hey I found this again, I used this on my folks a few years ago...didn't work but maybe it will help you. My apologies for the source of the info but it was all I could find. I/O Direct Drive
Requires a complicated outdrive mechanism mounted at and through the transom of the boat (makes for poor weight distribution). Passenger loading in water is done around outdrive. Engine and transmission mounted in the center of the boat (making for good balance and better weight distribution). Passenger loading rear platform, well away from any moving parts.
Major drive components incorporate complicated mechanisms like boat gears, u-joints & gimbal bearing, all mounted in the lower unit outside of the boat (unprotected against underwater damage). Major drive components mounted inside (guarded against underwater damage).
Shifting mechanism encompasses mechanical gears and shift dogs, series of cables and shafts (makes for stiff, hard shifting and much mechanism wear and tear). Proven velvet drive hydraulic transmission gives smooth operation from forward to reverse with no wear and tear.
Requires more maintenance and adjustments utilizing expensive service tehnicians and "specialty" tools. Requires minimal maintenance with no tools or service technicians (your local service station could handle repairs).

This didn't come out right. If you go to www.mninboard.com there will be a service button to the left of the page, hit this and you should see the I/O vs. Inboard. Hope you win the war!! ONCE AGAIN SORRY FOR THE LOCATION OF THE INFO. GOMC!!!!

TMCNo1
11-21-2006, 05:32 PM
Currently on our lake they only allow 4.3L I/Os up to 20'4".

Ski boats are allowed, but only if they are USA Waterski approved, less than 351C.I., under 3,000lbs, no ballast.

We are presenting arguments to the board requesting that they entertain allowing Vdrive boats (which are currently not legal nor meet USAWS approval).

My argument is that if they allow a 20'4" Cobalt that is 4,300lbs and can go over 50 mph, why not allow a Maristar 200?????

We have a pretty good list, but wanted to pull from the considerable mental resources of this board for good arguments.

so far, we have:

1. Goes slower
2. Safer (prop under boat)
3. Safer for other boats (no bow rise, with underpowered I/O you cant see squat for 10 seconds)
4. Less wake, exspecially when compared to the Cobalt getting up to planing speed.
5. Less emissions, due to newer engine and less fuel consumption at cruising speed.
6. Family friendly seating arrangement.



Help all, any other ideas?


Contact USA WaterSki. They have literature and all the legal stuff involved in these type issues, as they have been involved in litigation all over the country protecting skier/boaters rights. This has also been the subject of several articles over the years in WaterSki Magazine and they have info on approaching these issues.

erkoehler
11-21-2006, 05:36 PM
MCX has catalytic converters for lower emmissions :)

Bruce
11-21-2006, 06:04 PM
They allow 125hp outboards?. I can assure you that my 140hp Johnson was a lot louder than my 99 230VRS. Not mention the smoke it produced or the oil it would leak from the lower unit into the water. If they restricted it to paddle boats someone would complain about the splash!

beatle78
11-22-2006, 09:37 AM
A V-Drive isn't necessarily quieter than a DD or I/O and that's my point. Noise is NOT an issue so anyone who brings up that point is wrong.

Bruce hit the nail on the head. The average 125HP Outboard is WAY louder than any type of inboard. And if it's a 2 cycle it produces WAY more emmisions.

It sounds to me like the people making the decision are not affected by the rules and therfore don't care (They probably all own 125HP or 4.3L I/Os..... HYPOCRISY at its finiest)

Seriously, run for office and get all your supports to run for office. Educate people in a way that it paints a picture that it would seem illogical to vote otherwise......

or... MOVE

Question, What legal right does the board have to make you take you boat out of the water?

Rich_G
11-22-2006, 10:40 AM
Robert, you've gotten some good advice already. I agree with checking with the AWSA; there was an article in WaterSki Magazine in the last year or so about lakes around the country where people are losing their rights for skiing, and how the legal team at AWSA was helping. I would call WaterSki Mag and ask for a reprint of that article.

About the noise issue..., you could offer a compromise and require inboard boats to be equiped with the aftermarket product Fresh Air Exhaust (FAE). http://www.freshairexhaust.com/
FAE would provide you with statistics on actual noise reductions. I/O's do not have this option available.

BeavenX5
11-22-2006, 10:52 AM
Worst come to worst, if noise is a critical issue, you could make a concession and offer to force owners of DD and vdrives to install freshair exhaust systems to reduce noise and CO emissions:
http://www.freshairexhaust.com/#noiseReduction

That would be one less argument against you and would make DD and vdrive quieter than I/O.

just my :twocents:

Oups, looks like Rich beat me to that idea. Sorry....

RobertT
11-22-2006, 12:00 PM
How much does the freshairexhaust sytem reduce noise in the real world...the link is not working for me right now.

Thanks everyone, thats a HUGE deal.

RobertT
11-22-2006, 12:00 PM
How much does the freshairexhaust sytem reduce noise in the real world...the link is not working for me right now.

Thanks everyone, thats a HUGE deal.

Rich_G
11-22-2006, 12:21 PM
their website says by 75%, but noise reduction is a technical area. They would have to qualify that statement for it to make sense. There is a before & after audio player on the site, comparing the sound of what looks like a Tige at Slow, Medium, Fast, and Behind-the-Boat. The B-t-B audio was impressive.

There are some unsolicited experiences with FAE posted on wakeworld. You might do a search over there.