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Maristar210
10-17-2006, 12:17 PM
Our neighborhood association meeting is tonight and I need some help dealing with a problem that continues in our neighborhood.

The problem is two people in our neighborhood of forty homes are detrimental to the property value.

Neighbor one has a utility trailer and pop-up camper, jon-boat all parked (see piled) in his driveway. He also has not mowed his lawn or pulled a weed (waist high) in years. He just does not care at all what his yard looks like. His yard is so overgrown it looks awful. For the record the guy is a Physician. (sorry Harold)

Neighbor two also has a ton of toys parked in his yard. He also has an above ground pool and a solar heater that lays in his yard. The worst of this is there are about nine people living in this house. Eight are adults. The are four cars in the driveway and 8 cars parked in the street. Sometimes the cars in the street are left for days with a tire off, jacked up in the air. I have to pass both of these properties to get to my home

Our local ordinances do not specifically address these issues, nor does the county. When approached in the past about these issues the people become angry and tell the Neighborhood board to **********. The board becomes intimidated and nothing happens. After tonight there is a good chance I will be on this board:rolleyes:

Anyone have any ideas? Aside from Tony Soprano paying a visit?
TIA!!
Steve

ntidsl
10-17-2006, 12:20 PM
I didnt know you lived in my neighborhood...I'm sorry man...does that pool cover bug you? I just can't figure out how to keep that on the pool...all my bungees are on my car hood...stupid thing won't stay down...

Maristar210
10-17-2006, 12:27 PM
Neighbor two has a sister, three sons and a daughter with an illegitamate child. One of the son's got a new I-pod right after another neighbor had his stolen from his truck. Now I'm no rocket scientist but this same kid is one I saw smoking a joint down by the marina yesterday and it seems he goes away for a few months every year, so....

TMCNo1
10-17-2006, 12:28 PM
Our neighborhood association meeting is tonight and I need some help dealing with a problem that continues in our neighborhood.

The problem is two people in our neighborhood of forty homes are detrimental to the property value.

Neighbor one has a utility trailer and pop-up camper, jon-boat all parked (see piled) in his driveway. He also has not mowed his lawn or pulled a weed (waist high) in years. He just does not care at all what his yard looks like. His yard is so overgrown it looks awful. For the record the guy is a Physician. (sorry Harold)

Neighbor two also has a ton of toys parked in his yard. He also has an above ground pool and a solar heater that lays in his yard. The worst of this is there are about nine people living in this house. Eight are adults. The are four cars in the driveway and 8 cars parked in the street. Sometimes the cars in the street are left for days with a tire off, jacked up in the air. I have to pass both of these properties to get to my home

Our local ordinances do not specifically address these issues, nor does the county. When approached in the past about these issues the people become angry and tell the Neighborhood board to **********. The board becomes intimidated and nothing happens. After tonight there is a good chance I will be on this board:rolleyes:

Anyone have any ideas? Aside from Tony Soprano paying a visit?
TIA!!
Steve

If I am the physician you are refering to, I am not one, far from it, but I am a part time OB/GYN.
Our little town has an ordinance, 2 untagged and unregistered vehicles per residence sitting outside, in the open, not in a garage or carport. If the property is unmaintained a warning letter is sent and 30 days later ther city will do it and attach the cost to your city/county tax bill.

Maristar210
10-17-2006, 12:31 PM
If I am the physician you are refering to, I am not one, far from it, but I am a part time OB/GYN.
Our little town has an ordinance, 2 untagged and unregistered vehicles per residence sitting outside, in the open, not in a garage or carport. If the property is unmaintained a warning letter is sent and 30 days later ther city will do it and attach the cost to your city/county tax bill.


Vehicles are all tagged and driven periodically. Owner has an old Plymouth and conversion van along with his work vehicle (GE appliance service)....

bigmac
10-17-2006, 12:32 PM
Seems to me you're kinda screwed if your association's covenants don't address those issues specifically. Withou such rules, your neighbors would likely have some cause of action if you somehow singled them out for punitive action. I wouldn't address those two owners at all at your meeting tonight, but I would specifically propose new rules regarding property maintenance and appearance and start the process of getting those bylaw changes approved. Once approved by your membership, then you can address the issues caused by those two neighbors with some teeth. Instead of arguments, everyone can just shrug and say "sorry, it's the rules..."

You can certainly address things like lawn maintenance, vehicle parking, even numbers of adults living in a given residence. Heck, my sister lived in Leawood, Kansas and they'd get a ticket/fine if they left their garage door open, fer cryin' out loud...

Leroy
10-17-2006, 12:32 PM
If the rules don't fit you can't enforce them. :D

I thought every city had something about overgrown grass and too much stuff, if not then your neighborhood covenants?

Leroy
10-17-2006, 12:33 PM
You could change the rules, what does it take to add rules to the neighborhood association?

Maristar210
10-17-2006, 12:39 PM
Seems to me you're kinda screwed if your association's covenants don't address those issues specifically. Withou such rules, your neighbors would likely have some cause of action if you somehow singled them out for punitive action. I wouldn't address those two owners at all at your meeting tonight, but I would specifically propose new rules regarding property maintenance and appearance and start the process of getting those bylaw changes approved. Once approved by your membership, then you can address the issues caused by those two neighbors with some teeth. Instead of arguments, everyone can just shrug and say "sorry, it's the rules..."


That is probably the path we'll have to take. It is chronologically the longest one however. Our board is occupied by a group that is more concern with who will hold this years over 65 Christmas gathering (scarcasm). They want me on there because they know what an a-hole I can be but I am not sure I want to be that involved. It will be addressed this evening as will the issues with the marina. I may need several ounces of cold beer afterwards:D

Maristar210
10-17-2006, 12:39 PM
You could change the rules, what does it take to add rules to the neighborhood association?


Good question. I'll ask that tonight.

Ric
10-17-2006, 12:40 PM
jon boat and popup.... Brad move in over there?

Maristar210
10-17-2006, 12:42 PM
Ric

I love your trailer. Especially the tongue.

Ric
10-17-2006, 12:44 PM
Ric

I love your trailer. Especially the tongue. you are a very sick man

by the way, the neighbors only complained for a little while when I cut a big slot in the garage door for the trailer tongue to stick out

Maristar210
10-17-2006, 12:49 PM
you are a very sick man

by the way, the neighbors only complained for a little while when I cut a big slot in the garage door for the trailer tongue to stick out


Ric- Does that paint a bad image for you 8p 8p 8p

Ric
10-17-2006, 12:52 PM
no but the ol' chevy is hard to mow around, so we just let it eat

Maristar210
10-17-2006, 12:55 PM
no but the ol' chevy is hard to mow around, so we just let it eat


As Joe Thiesman said last night.....

"Just pound it up the middle":D

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-17-2006, 12:58 PM
play the game Steve. get creative. get the community together, pool your ideas. have his next door neighbor "join a non conventionally different church group" ;) and have that "church group" meet at his house several nights a week. drive the guy nuts. Have everyone keep telling him that "God wants him to mow his lawn" and that he may strike him down if he dont mow it and clean it up. Invite the guy to your meetings repeatedly. Have numerous neighbors pay Freindly numerous visits to his house wanting to "save him from his messy ways". Get some "Aunt Esther" type of character to go preach to him. but you gotta be creative, beat him at his own game. Have a ball with it. It dont have to be a fight, it can be a laugh. if that dont work, then resort to laws, rules, and police.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-17-2006, 12:59 PM
jon boat and popup.... Brad move in over there?
I was thinking that too......:purplaugh


..as far as you know.....

PendO
10-17-2006, 01:21 PM
man, I would love to help you ... my retainer is $5000 ...

ah crap, I can't practice in your state:(

6ballsisall
10-17-2006, 01:31 PM
play the game Steve. get creative. get the community together, pool your ideas. have his next door neighbor "join a non conventionally different church group" ;) and have that "church group" meet at his house several nights a week. drive the guy nuts. Have everyone keep telling him that "God wants him to mow his lawn" and that he may strike him down if he dont mow it and clean it up. Invite the guy to your meetings repeatedly. Have numerous neighbors pay Freindly numerous visits to his house wanting to "save him from his messy ways". Get some "Aunt Esther" type of character to go preach to him. but you gotta be creative, beat him at his own game. Have a ball with it. It dont have to be a fight, it can be a laugh. if that dont work, then resort to laws, rules, and police.


^^^^^^^^^^^^ I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!

There is a house on our block that suffers from proper upkeep, adult kids that live at home, you name it........:rolleyes: In the 3 years we have lived here it has gotten better. The way we did it was subtle hints........he now calls me other neighbor the yard nazi (in fun) because everytime my neighbor mows, the wife of the messy house makes her husband go mow the lawn. :D
It took a while w/ the subtle hints but it is getting progressively better. We planted 3 large Spruce trees as privacy fence in our front yard to block our "view" of their yard. The same weekend, my neighbor the "yard nazi" did the same thing. We had some issue with their adult live in children parking partially on the street and our lawn (as did the yard nazi) after putting in a 2' wide swath of large rock and some 18" decorative fencing that problem went away too.

LakePirate
10-17-2006, 01:34 PM
Staristar

Bad news, I don't even know that amending the by-laws are going to help you. Being somewhat involved in our homeowner association at the lake, I know that covenants are only as good as the judge that will uphold them. That being said, if they are articles that are added after a particular activity has taken place I would assume that it decreases the ability to enforce.

To be on the safe side, when proposing the new by-laws be sure to include ramifications upon to complying. Something like owner will be assessed $100 fine and required to pay for lawn maintenance services arranged by the home owners association or have vehicles towed if not moved by so many days. However, you probably should add that there is some type of warning that goes out, certified letter or such.

If your neighborhood contracts out anything, (water/sewer/lighting/garbage collection) you can use that a leverage for non-compliance. If not the home owners association is going to wind up in small claims court and will have to eat the cost of legal fees as well as having the grass cut. Possibly even getting sued for towing a vehicle. It might be wise to consult the PendO - Eastie type before proposing and amending these bylaws.

Do you have to pay association fees of any kind?

trickskier
10-17-2006, 01:58 PM
Your best bet is to get on the board and get as many good neighbors as possible on your side. If local ordinances do not cover your issues, your only hope is to add to your deed restrictions & covenants. Plus you need a storng board to enforce. Good Luck!!!

skeeler
10-17-2006, 02:53 PM
And all I have to worry about at the lake, is getting yelled at every 5 minutes about the size of my wake. :D

east tx skier
10-17-2006, 03:08 PM
Since your original post said "rules" and "ordinances," I'd check your deed for covenants. We have no homeowners association to which to answer, but our deed does have covenants that run with the land in common with the other properties in our subdivision. It's a very common practice when someone creates a subdivision to give prospective owners confidence that their neighbors won't behave as to devalue the property.

Maristar210
10-17-2006, 03:08 PM
Staristar

Bad news, I don't even know that amending the by-laws are going to help you. Being somewhat involved in our homeowner association at the lake, I know that covenants are only as good as the judge that will uphold them. That being said, if they are articles that are added after a particular activity has taken place I would assume that it decreases the ability to enforce.

To be on the safe side, when proposing the new by-laws be sure to include ramifications upon to complying. Something like owner will be assessed $100 fine and required to pay for lawn maintenance services arranged by the home owners association or have vehicles towed if not moved by so many days. However, you probably should add that there is some type of warning that goes out, certified letter or such.

If your neighborhood contracts out anything, (water/sewer/lighting/garbage collection) you can use that a leverage for non-compliance. If not the home owners association is going to wind up in small claims court and will have to eat the cost of legal fees as well as having the grass cut. Possibly even getting sued for towing a vehicle. It might be wise to consult the PendO - Eastie type before proposing and amending these bylaws.

Do you have to pay association fees of any kind?


Thanks. Yes we do $150 per year. Slip rental(when I get one) is the same price.....

Ric
10-17-2006, 03:22 PM
It's a very common practice when someone creates a subdivision to give prospective owners confidence that their neighbors won't behave as to devalue the property.

I was thinking about this fact recently on my quest for that perfect garage with a house next to it.

I realized that when I find a place like that, it will probably be in an area that is not so cookie cutter suburban and may not have tight rules (read HOA)

Price, I think, above all, keeps out the riff raff.. Not to say that someone who pays $200k is less entitled than a $1m customer to their property being devalued, but the price seems to dictate the level of self respect in MOST cases...

Maristar210
10-17-2006, 04:16 PM
I was thinking about this fact recently on my quest for that perfect garage with a house next to it.

I realized that when I find a place like that, it will probably be in an area that is not so cookie cutter suburban and may not have tight rules (read HOA)

Price, I think, above all, keeps out the riff raff.. Not to say that someone who pays $200k is less entitled than a $1m customer to their property being devalued, but the price seems to dictate the level of self respect in MOST cases...

Good Point Ric. There are a couple of homes in the nighborhood that you can visibly see they built a great looking house but ran out of cash for landscaping. One neighbor in perticular has a huge house certainly north of $500k and he's drving a 10 year old Caddy that looks like hell and his yard does as well.

Steve

Tryin-again
10-17-2006, 04:26 PM
Good Point Ric. One neighbor in perticular has a huge house certainly north of $500k and he's drving a 10 year old Caddy that looks like hell and his yard does as well.

Steve

He just sounds whipped! His wife is probably a babe..... makes him build her a huge house but won't let him buy a new car..... I could speculate why he hasn't done the yard - but this is a family oriented forum..... :D

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-17-2006, 05:14 PM
He just sounds whipped! His wife is probably a babe..... makes him build her a huge house but won't let him buy a new car..... I could speculate why he hasn't done the yard - but this is a family oriented forum..... :D
Oh I know what you mean. You mean his wife is SUCH a good cook, that over the years he has gained so much weight from eating too much, so he is too lazy to get out and take care of his yard. ;) :D Hey, too many cakes, cookies, and meatloaf will take its toll on ya! trust me, I know!

Tryin-again
10-17-2006, 05:15 PM
Oh I know what you mean. You mean his wife is SUCH a good cook, that over the years he has gained so much weight from eating too much, so he is too lazy to get out and take care of his yard. ;) :D Hey, too many cakes, cookies, and meatloaf will take its toll on ya! trust me, I know!


Something like that......... :D

PendO
10-17-2006, 05:19 PM
Steve - my neighbors pretty much HATE me b/c I got pissed when they decided 2 winters ago that they were going to park their jeep in the street and tarp it for winter (2 car garage and 3 car family) ... we tried being nice, but it didn't work too well until we sent a mass email to the rest of the neighbors and embarrassed them into doing something else with the jeep ... anyway, I bet you have some sort of covenants with steps to enforcement ... as for our neighborhood it is a PUD with grass mowing included in our monthly dues ... however, in my parents neighborhood, if someone slacks on lawn mowing or house painting ... the committee can take care of the upkeep (hire a contractor) and then put a lein on the property to recover the cost ... I'll send you a PM if you want some help/ideas on legal recourse

Bruce
10-17-2006, 05:37 PM
The guys are right. Without covenants you don't have much legal standing. The new covenants probably will not help the existing situation as these folks as well as others would be grandfathered in.
With covenants the courts have been strong backers of homeowners assn's. I have no idea where you are but most towns, cities etc. have ordances to protect you from health hazards, safety issues etc.
Of course where I came from you could tell the wealthy--They had TWO cars jacked up in the yard!
Good luch tonight.

Ric
10-17-2006, 05:55 PM
Good Point Ric. There are a couple of homes in the nighborhood that you can visibly see they built a great looking house but ran out of cash for landscaping. One neighbor in perticular has a huge house certainly north of $500k and he's drving a 10 year old Caddy that looks like hell and his yard does as well.

Steve There will always be the exceptions...
when I was a kid, our first new home we built and we were all proud of it and the suburban area and all this and that.....
There was a new floorplan being built a couple of streets over from where the builder was currently offering lots... sort of a frontier of the subdivision if you will..
rumor had it that these folks were paying cash for the new home ... WOW, we were impressed and intrigued by who the folks may be... we watch the home being built and all the extravigant colors and such going into the place and then we see the owners move in... two old cars and a ton of weird stuff that made you go hmmmmm....
months go by and the guy never mows.... nice... then we see that he is now doing production fabwork in the garage (stacking the finished product in the driveway) it was really fun to watch his driveway with all the rust stains, the complete lack of care for the property etc...

The most fun was watching the HOA ladies go nuts and go after this family for months and months.. I finally sold and moved away so I dont know how the story ended..

there will always be exceptions.. one of the worst things that could happen is that someone wins a fat lawsuit and buys 5x more house than they could have afforded normally and then learn they can't pay the taxes or uphold the lifestyle that comes with it

kwood
10-17-2006, 06:03 PM
Join the HOA and write some new rules

6ballsisall
10-17-2006, 06:04 PM
Staristar. One of the guys on my block is an Ex-Mafia "collector". I am sure for a price he could help out. Want his number?? :D

jlf
10-17-2006, 06:10 PM
The mafia own the sub division I live in...


We also have a HOA and it is pretty much useless, I will say we don't have too many problems. This biggest one is with the guy who owns our division, his lawn is the worst looking one out here and his dog is the one that won't stop barking. Good thing for me he lives at the beginning of the street and unless I'm coming or going to don't have to look at his lawn or hear his dog.


Good luck....I would say your best bet it to try to create new by-laws for your association. You could also try just getting the support of all the neighbors and somehow talking or notifying the parties involved that the neighborhood as a whole has some concers about their properties. It might embarrass them enough to change, doubtful, but you could try it. There has to be some ordinance with the city or county about vehicles sitting on the street registered or not that are being worked on. Almost all places have something in writing about lawn care, I find it hard to believe yours doesn't, I'd keep looking.

Maristar210
10-17-2006, 11:57 PM
He just sounds whipped! His wife is probably a babe..... makes him build her a huge house but won't let him buy a new car..... I could speculate why he hasn't done the yard - but this is a family oriented forum..... :D

She is African American and she is a bonafide beech

Maristar210
10-18-2006, 12:15 AM
Well please welcome your newest bored - board member Steve.

I will be in charge of the marina (hopefully)

Considering Phecksel's issues I should be happy.

Lots of I did this, I did that talk from the outgoing president..... geez???

Lots of last year, two years ago

Ric
10-18-2006, 12:17 AM
Well please welcome your newest bored - board member Steve.

I will be in charge of the marina (hopefully)

Considering Phecksel's issues I should be happy.

Lots of I did this, I did that talk from the outgoing president..... geez???

Lots of last year, two years ago
you are gonna need a platform

NeilM
10-18-2006, 12:21 AM
Congratulations.. now grab the double barrel and go git 'em..:D

Let us know how you make out...

Maristar210
10-18-2006, 08:01 AM
you are gonna need a platform


Your'e right Ric.

My platform is as follows; All monies in the NA go to the Marina. What's left is used to buy beer and those two a-holes need to clean up thier crap.

Do I hear a motion?:D

Steve

Tryin-again
10-18-2006, 08:07 AM
Your'e right Ric.

My platform is as follows; All monies in the NA go to the Marina. What's left is used to buy beer and those two a-holes need to clean up thier crap.

Do I hear a motion?:D

Steve

There Ya go.. Takin' Charge :headbang:

André
10-18-2006, 08:14 AM
Your'e right Ric.

My platform is as follows; All monies in the NA go to the Marina. What's left is used to buy beer and those two a-holes need to clean up thier crap.

Do I hear a motion?:D

Steve
My kind of politicians...:cool:

Ric
10-18-2006, 08:33 AM
Motion for steve to move toward the ice box and hand me a beer

Maristar210
10-18-2006, 09:32 AM
Motion for steve to move toward the ice box and hand me a beer

I'll second that motion.:D

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-18-2006, 09:39 AM
Hmmm....MarkP may have an worthy opponent in 08 if Staristar keeps up this kind of work.:cool: