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View Full Version : Need Some Guidance before I make a move!


Sodar
10-10-2006, 02:26 PM
OK, so before spring I want a new or "new to me" boat sitting in my garage. Here are my basic requirements:

Prostar 197 with:
Mini-Tower
Tandem Trailer
Primarily White Gelcoat

I have been searching and I found a west coast boat that meets these requirements, however I know that I have read some discouraging information and I want to set the facts straight before I make the wrong move.

1) What is the deal with the LT-R motor?

2) I think I have heard that the initial years of the 197 are different than the later... can you please advise?

3) I have heard the horror stories of the MC fuel pumps... is this issue resolved or will I experience the same issues?

* If anyone has any advice, insight or additional information I should be thinking about, please add it here or PM me*

THANKS SO MUCH IN ADVANCE!

east tx skier
10-10-2006, 02:45 PM
The 197 hull in 01 and 02 production years did not have a hooked hull and had the horizontal stabilizer on the rudder. 02 TT boats and 03 and newer production boats have the hooked hull (little lip on where the bottom of the hull meets the transom).

The fuel pump problems apparently stem from running the tank too low. Gasoline lubricates the in-tank pumps, and when run low, without lubrication, they get messed up. I suppose a fuel pressure test of one sort or another could lessen concerns in this area. I don't know when they went to the in-tank pumps that have been the source of problems.

Diesel
10-10-2006, 02:45 PM
OK, so before spring I want a new or "new to me" boat sitting in my garage. Here are my basic requirements:

Prostar 197 with:
Mini-Tower
Tandem Trailer
Primarily White Gelcoat

I have been searching and I found a west coast boat that meets these requirements, however I know that I have read some discouraging information and I want to set the facts straight before I make the wrong move.

1) What is the deal with the LT-R motor?

2) I think I have heard that the initial years of the 197 are different than the later... can you please advise?

3) I have heard the horror stories of the MC fuel pumps... is this issue resolved or will I experience the same issues?

* If anyone has any advice, insight or additional information I should be thinking about, please add it here or PM me*

THANKS SO MUCH IN ADVANCE!

Look for a late model TT boat. They seem plentiful and a bargin at that.

Sodar
10-10-2006, 02:50 PM
The 197 hull in 01 and 02 production years did not have a hooked hull and had the horizontal stabilizer on the rudder. 02 TT boats and 03 and newer production boats have the hooked hull (little lip on where the bottom of the hull meets the transom).

The fuel pump problems apparently stem from running the tank too low. Gasoline lubricates the in-tank pumps, and when run low, without lubrication, they get messed up. I suppose a fuel pressure test of one sort or another could lessen concerns in this area. I don't know when they went to the in-tank pumps that have been the source of problems.

Perfect, the boat I am looking at is an '03, so I do not need to worry about that. When did the Electronic Throttle control start?

east tx skier
10-10-2006, 02:51 PM
2005 was the first production year of TBW on MCX and up. I recall there being some 2004 boats that TBW was tested on though.

Diesel
10-10-2006, 02:51 PM
When did the Electronic Throttle control start?

2005 on the MCX and up engines.

Sodar
10-10-2006, 02:53 PM
Look for a late model TT boat. They seem plentiful and a bargin at that.

I would, but the colored bottom color would not work for me. I am on a private lake that has very hard water and having a black or red bottom would be out of control to take care of. I have to pull my boat out nightly and wipe it with vinegar and then wax the bottom at the beginning and end of the summer. This is why I need a primarily white hull.

When did the MCX start? I am really leary of this LT-R motor....

jkski
10-10-2006, 03:02 PM
First off, the 197 is a great boat all around, something I'm certain you already know.
If you find an 01-02 that fits your criteria, and it doesn't happen to be a TT, you can have the "hook" added. You might want to check with your local dealer, however, I did have it added to my 02 for a fair price and it made a world of difference.
One thing you will notice on the 02 model vs. the 03 and newer, is that the sunpas is slightly different. In 02, when you went to raise the trunk hatches, a portion of the back rest for the back seat came up with it. Why is this a big deal....well, some people were having problems with the rope getting caught in the split and if you aren't paying attention you'll have damage. In the 03 and newer models the hatches are independent of the rear seat back.
You mention a mini tower, you might want to consider the full size. You may find that you use it more than you thought you would and the resale value I would think is better. Plus it sits up higher and you are less likely to hit your head.

Ric
10-10-2006, 03:05 PM
How much do you trailer?

Sodar
10-10-2006, 03:06 PM
Thanks JKski! I will think about your advise in regards to the full tower. I am really reluctant to have a tower at all and I think that the Mini-tower is a good compramise. I also like how the bimini is integrated into it, so at times it looks like there is no tower at all. We will see... I am sure I am gunna have to make compramises if I am looking at the used market!

Ric
10-10-2006, 03:07 PM
I have to say that LTR v MCX is a huge difference in motor... I don't know why but my LTR always had a lag or a bit of hesitance on the bottom end that is not present with the MCX (both of those had 1:1 transmissions)

Sodar
10-10-2006, 03:07 PM
How much do you trailer?

I would say I trailer around 5,000+ miles a year

Ric
10-10-2006, 03:08 PM
Thanks JKski! I will think about your advise in regards to the full tower. I am really reluctant to have a tower at all and I think that the Mini-tower is a good compramise. I also like how the bimini is integrated into it, so at times it looks like there is no tower at all. We will see... I am sure I am gunna have to make compramises if I am looking at the used market! you shoulda bought jrandols boat

sanjuan23
10-10-2006, 03:08 PM
How much do you trailer?
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

Ric
10-10-2006, 03:10 PM
I would say I trailer around 5,000+ miles a year you need to study the brake issues, torsion axle issues and other trailer issues posted on here for the yearmodel range you seek.
I believe in 03 there were 197 trailers with several brake issues and of course my personal issue with the bunks may only rear it's head if you launch and load alot in relation to the actual miles you tow...

Sodar
10-10-2006, 03:10 PM
you shoulda bought jrandols boat

I want a primarily white boat... here is what i am thinking, but the dealer is gunna need to change the tower before I take delivery

Ric
10-10-2006, 03:23 PM
I want a primarily white boat... here is what i am thinking, but the dealer is gunna need to change the tower before I take delivery That is a beauty... Looks brand new how many hours?

Sodar
10-10-2006, 03:29 PM
That is a beauty... Looks brand new how many hours?

2005 Demo with 67 hrs, but comes with a new boat warranty... what do you guys think?

hacker
10-10-2006, 03:35 PM
Thanks JKski! I will think about your advise in regards to the full tower. I am really reluctant to have a tower at all and I think that the Mini-tower is a good compramise. I also like how the bimini is integrated into it, so at times it looks like there is no tower at all. We will see... I am sure I am gunna have to make compramises if I am looking at the used market!

Be careful when considering a full tower. If you are pulling a slalom skier much past 32 off, the rope could hit the tower support.

Edit: just saw the pic of the boat. Looks like the back support might be far enough forward not to bother a shortline skier.

sanjuan23
10-10-2006, 03:41 PM
2005 Demo with 67 hrs, but comes with a new boat warranty... what do you guys think?

One of my favorite Color Schemes!

Tom023
10-10-2006, 03:41 PM
Given the choice I would want an MCX in my boat rather than the LTR because of 20 extra HP and it looks cooler. That said, I have the LTR and it's been a great engine for me...good power and no issues other than an alternator bracket replaced under warranty and having to check the oil pump gear at each oil change (takes 5 minutes). The LTR and MCX are the same block, so the differences are the intake manifold and bolt on stuff, so there is no reason to be "afraid" of an LTR.

Sodar
10-10-2006, 03:43 PM
Be careful when considering a full tower. If you are pulling a slalom skier much past 32 off, the rope could hit the tower support.

Edit: just saw the pic of the boat. Looks like the back support might be far enough forward not to bother a shortline skier.

That tower will not stay if I pursue that boat... it will either be a mini tower or no tower at all!

erkoehler
10-10-2006, 10:56 PM
How about this one.........

Sodar
10-10-2006, 10:57 PM
How about this one.........

Option 2...

That is an '02, so from what I have learned it has no hook in the hull and has a horizontal wing on the rudder, which I would imagine means that it is not as responsive. It also has the LT-R, which I have heard requires some additional maintence

Ric
10-10-2006, 11:26 PM
How about this one......... erk, tell me more about the trailer in that pic

Sodar
10-10-2006, 11:37 PM
The trailer is a V/M I believe and the dealership uses this company exclusively. They are nice trailer, but I will tell you what trailer is incredible! In my opinion, (Eastie can delete this) I think that Malibu has the right idea putting their boats on Extreme Custom Trailers. My dad has an Extreme under his high performance boat and the quality is 100,000 times better than any MC trailer. Check out their website at: http://www.extremetrailers.com/new/home.html and http://extremetrailers.com/malibu/index.html The real clincher on these trailers is that they are the same price as an MC trailer and come standard with LED lights, retractable tie downs and spare tire. Plus, the factory has a full service department that does anything from lubing bearings to converting a tandem axle to and triple axle. My praises are now over, but Extreme Trailers is where it is at... leave it the the West Coast Boys to take something as simple as a trailer and make it a work of art!!

jkski
10-11-2006, 07:39 AM
Option 2...

That is an '02, so from what I have learned it has no hook in the hull and has a horizontal wing on the rudder, which I would imagine means that it is not as responsive. It also has the LT-R, which I have heard requires some additional maintence

While I certainly can not speak to the quality of the LT-R, do not let the lack of a "hook" scare you off. If you like the boat and the price is right, maybe you could work something into your deal where the dealership adds the hook and swaps out the rudder. I do not know if the 06 rudder is compatible, but it would be great if you had a choice.
I did have the hook added to my 02 and I kept the "T-rudder" and I have to say that it made for a great slalom wake, however, it greatly affected the spray coming off the side of the boat.
Just something to think about.

H20skeefreek
10-11-2006, 08:28 AM
If you are on a private lake with a tight turn island, don't count on an "added" hook being sufficient. PM me if you have questions. I know of one that the "added" hook has not helped at all.

Ric
10-11-2006, 08:40 AM
If you are on a private lake with a tight turn island, don't count on an "added" hook being sufficient. PM me if you have questions. I know of one that the "added" hook has not helped at all. freek are you sure you are talkin bout a 197??????????????????:confused:

Ric
10-11-2006, 08:42 AM
the trailer with the boat in your pic looks like an mc trailer, erk's pic is the one I'm wondering about

I will check out this extreme trailer thing

The trailer is a V/M I believe and the dealership uses this company exclusively. They are nice trailer, but I will tell you what trailer is incredible! In my opinion, (Eastie can delete this) I think that Malibu has the right idea putting their boats on Extreme Custom Trailers. My dad has an Extreme under his high performance boat and the quality is 100,000 times better than any MC trailer. Check out their website at: http://www.extremetrailers.com/new/home.html and http://extremetrailers.com/malibu/index.html The real clincher on these trailers is that they are the same price as an MC trailer and come standard with LED lights, retractable tie downs and spare tire. Plus, the factory has a full service department that does anything from lubing bearings to converting a tandem axle to and triple axle. My praises are now over, but Extreme Trailers is where it is at... leave it the the West Coast Boys to take something as simple as a trailer and make it a work of art!!

Workin' 4 Toys
10-11-2006, 08:43 AM
you need to study the brake issues, torsion axle issues and other trailer issues posted on here for the yearmodel range you seek.
The fuel pump problems
alternator bracket replaced under warranty and having to check the oil pump gear at each oil change
Also check the steering to make sure it doesn't BIND

Workin' 4 Toys
10-11-2006, 08:52 AM
boats on Extreme Custom Trailers
As a general rule of thumb, I steer clear of things labeled "EXTREME" if possible.

They do have some pimpin' trailer wheels on that site...:rolleyes:

Sodar
10-11-2006, 10:10 AM
the trailer with the boat in your pic looks like an mc trailer, erk's pic is the one I'm wondering about

I will check out this extreme trailer thing

The pic that Erk posted is a boat in Arizona that I looked at... it is not one of Erk's boats.

Sodar
10-11-2006, 10:15 AM
I did have the hook added to my 02 and I kept the "T-rudder" and I have to say that it made for a great slalom wake, however, it greatly affected the spray coming off the side of the boat.
Just something to think about.

Thanks for the insight. I will definitely check into the compatability of a new rudder if the hook is added.

east tx skier
10-11-2006, 10:31 AM
It is compatable. The price I've heard is about $700 for the hook and $300 give or take for the 06 rudder.

Archimedes
10-11-2006, 11:42 AM
2005 Demo with 67 hrs, but comes with a new boat warranty... what do you guys think?

There was a beautiful 06 197 with tower at a dealer in SoCal that I considered before I bought my X-1 a few months ago. They were just about to make it their demo boat, so they probably still have it. It was a loaded 197, white with red accents, stickered around $50k. If I recall the dealer was called California Skiier of something like that in Elsinore, CA. Can't remember exactly; I talked to so many dealers. Really nice lady and a really nice boat.

There's also a TT 197 here in NorCal that's been for sale for $45k for a few months; around 100 hours. Nice (white) boat. I think it was the C&M owner's boat.

jkski
10-11-2006, 02:21 PM
I've got an 05 PS197 that is yellow and white and I'll sell it to you.

Sodar
10-11-2006, 05:16 PM
I've got an 05 PS197 that is yellow and white and I'll sell it to you.

Primarily White...

jkski
10-12-2006, 02:37 PM
Primarily White...

White top deck, yellow sides to a thin black stripe, then a thicker gray stripe, then back to a white hull. PM me if you want more info.

6ballsisall
10-12-2006, 09:00 PM
White top deck, yellow sides to a thin black stripe, then a thicker gray stripe, then back to a white hull. PM me if you want more info.

It's a darn clean boat sodar. I have seen pics.

Sodar
10-12-2006, 10:40 PM
It's a darn clean boat sodar. I have seen pics.
I am sure it is! The 2,000 mile transport is a problem, as well as the full tower. Thanks for the offer though!


If anyone has any leads to a boat that meets my criteria (PS 197 w/ minitower, tandem axle and primarily white gelcoat) Let me know!!

Hoosier Bob
10-12-2006, 10:42 PM
Me personally would go for the carbureted 1993 197! IT ROCKS and is actually 2 inches shorter! What you do with that extra 2 inches is your problem!

jkski
10-12-2006, 10:46 PM
ROADTRIP!

I am certain you will find what you are looking for, there are a lot of good MC owners out there who take great care of their boats. I still stay in touch with the people who have purchased my previous boats and have them send me photo's to make sure they are keeping them to my standards (YEP...I'm a bit anal retentive when it comes to the boat!)
I'll keep my eye's open for ya.

Sodar
10-12-2006, 10:53 PM
I still stay in touch with the people who have purchased my previous boats and have them send me photo's to make sure they are keeping them to my standards (YEP...I'm a bit anal retentive when it comes to the boat!)
Yeah, we do that with our old boats as well. Unfortunately the new owner of one of our old boats crashed it into a jetty! Sometimes it is easier to just let them go...

Tryin-again
10-12-2006, 10:55 PM
Yeah, we do that with our old boats as well. Unfortunately the new owner of one of our old boats crashed it into a jetty! Sometimes it is easier to just let them go...


Uggggggggg Man that hurts...... :mad:

Monte
10-12-2006, 10:55 PM
Yeah, we do that with our old boats as well. Unfortunately the new owner of one of our old boats crashed it into a jetty! Sometimes it is easier to just let them go...

D4444444444MN!!!!!:mad:

Sodar
10-12-2006, 11:03 PM
Uggggggggg Man that hurts...... :mad:

Bought it back in the insurance sale and rebuilt it, if you can believe that!!

Tryin-again
10-12-2006, 11:05 PM
Bought it back in the insurance sale and rebuilt it, if you can believe that!!

Dang- looks like you did a good job.....she's all shiny :cool:

jkski
10-13-2006, 09:03 AM
Bought it back in the insurance sale and rebuilt it, if you can believe that!!

WOW....now just slap an MC decal down each side and you've got the white boat you are looking for....except for the awesome pull, great wakes(or lack there of), handling, etc)!

Sodar
12-17-2006, 07:54 PM
Well, my dad and I did it! Saturday afternoon we signed an offer to purchase on a 2005 197. The boat will not be ready for deliver for a while though, because the dealership will be removing the current tower, ordering and installing a mini tower.

The boat came with some nice options, yet does not have a stereo. I looked online at the components, but have a few questions for you 197 owners with a stock stereo.

How many speakers and amps does the stock system come with?
(I was thinking of doing a 6 speaker system with 2 amps and the 10" sub)

I have also posted this on another thread, but how high is the highest point on the mini tower when folded?

Last and final question... anyone know anyone who is interested in a CLEAN 1996 PS 190????!!!!

TMCNo1
12-17-2006, 08:35 PM
Nice looking boat and be sure to post pictures when you take delivery.

Chief
12-17-2006, 08:45 PM
JL Audio makes a 6 Channel amp that works very well. I have one on my boat and it pushes speakers and sub nicely.

Nice boat!

east tx skier
12-18-2006, 08:08 PM
Congrats, Cameron! Great looking boat.

sanjuan23
12-18-2006, 08:13 PM
^^^^Ditto to what he said... Great look love the white... Too bad it wouldnt work here in our lovely water:mad:

Ryan
12-18-2006, 08:27 PM
Congrats Cameron! That is a hot lookin' boat. :steering:

Ryan
12-18-2006, 08:28 PM
Do the mini tower mounts match those being removed, or will they have to patch then remount in new locations?

Sodar
12-18-2006, 08:43 PM
Do the mini tower mounts match those being removed, or will they have to patch then remount in new locations?

It looks like the mounts will be right on in the front, but might need to be patched in the read... either way, it will work out. I have an INCREDIBLE fiberglass guy that can make it look like nothing was ever there.

Workin' 4 Toys
12-19-2006, 09:20 AM
I have an INCREDIBLE fiberglass guy that can make it look like nothing was ever there.
After seeing your posts #44 & #47 here, I'd agree....:)

Sodar
12-19-2006, 11:01 AM
After seeing your posts #44 & #47 here, I'd agree....:)

HA HA!! Yeah, but unfortunately I will not be shipping the MC down to Baja Mexico like my Dad did on the big one!!

When I talked to the dealership, they started questioning me on why I wanted to get rid of their tower (the MC dealership here owns 13th floor towers). My reply was, "Well, I just do not like the way it looks on that boat." I also learned that the tower does not even fold down because of the way they had to mount the feet. Needless to say, I am DEFINITELY putting a mini-tower on it... I am starting to get excited!!

jraben8
12-19-2006, 11:27 AM
That is absolutely gorgeous!!!

Sodar
12-19-2006, 11:38 AM
That is absolutely gorgeous!!!

It is not gorgeous yet! When I get the mini tower on it, I think it will improve the looks alot! Thanks for the compliment!

Workin' 4 Toys
12-19-2006, 12:21 PM
HA HA!! Yeah, but unfortunately I will not be shipping the MC down to Baja Mexico like my Dad did on the big one!!
I see.....Makes sense, they only ship Heavy ships.....8p

Sodar
12-23-2006, 07:12 PM
How many speakers and amps does the stock system come with?
(I was thinking of doing a 6 speaker system with 2 amps and the 10" sub)

Bumpity Bump Bump!

Anyone know what the factory stereo system is comprised of?

Brand of Speakers?
Size of Speakers?
Number of Speakers?

Brand of Sub?
Size of Sub?

Number of amps?
Brand of amps?

So far I come up with this system, but I have no idea if I am computing this the correct way...

This Head Unit:
http://www.clarion.com/us/en/MungoBlobs/527/772/CMD4A-US_01,0.jpg

This Remote for Driver's Side:
http://www.clarion.com/us/en/MungoBlobs/702/453/CMRC1-BSS.jpg

6 of these speakers (2-bow, 2-driver, 2 rear bench):
http://www.clarion.com/us/en/MungoBlobs/804/39/CM1635.jpg

This Sub in front of driver's footwell:
http://www.clarion.com/us/en/MungoBlobs/86/688/CMSW10.1S.jpg

Continue in next post!

Sodar
12-23-2006, 07:21 PM
Two of these amps to drive the component speakers and sub:
http://www.clarion.com/us/en/MungoBlobs/934/504/APX480M.jpg

Now for the question:
If I hook 4 component speakers into one amp, 2 component speakers and the sub into the other amp, will this work? I am a complete idiot when it comes to understanding ohms, resistance and watts, but according to what i worked out, it would be fine and a nice basic stock system. If any stereo guys have ANY guidance, PLEASE PM me or post tips here. I feel that once I get the stereo components straightened out, I can do the install myself.

JohnnyB
12-23-2006, 07:57 PM
I believe stock system was the clarion head unit in your picture, the remote on the driver's arm-rest, two speakers (JL Audio) in the bow, two speakers under the rear bench (JL Audio), subwoofer and single amplifier (Clarion).

Not sure where the subwoofer and amplifier get mounted????

Last summer I installed the head unit and four speakers. Instead of mounting my front speakers in the bow, I put them on either side of the dog house. Rears are below the rear bench seat....it's a tight fit. Plan on buying a high-quality, large diameter hole saw for the install...if memory serves me correct, its a 5" hole with probably less than +/- 1/4" of error in fitting them where they need to go.

Waiting to see where the sub and amp get mounted....that's my next endeavor.

Next time I'm near where my boat is stored, I'll try to get some pics of my install.

Sodar
12-23-2006, 09:04 PM
I believe stock system was the clarion head unit in your picture, the remote on the driver's arm-rest, two speakers (JL Audio) in the bow, two speakers under the rear bench (JL Audio), subwoofer and single amplifier (Clarion).

Not sure where the subwoofer and amplifier get mounted????

Last summer I installed the head unit and four speakers. Instead of mounting my front speakers in the bow, I put them on either side of the dog house. Rears are below the rear bench seat....it's a tight fit. Plan on buying a high-quality, large diameter hole saw for the install...if memory serves me correct, its a 5" hole with probably less than +/- 1/4" of error in fitting them where they need to go.

Waiting to see where the sub and amp get mounted....that's my next endeavor.

Next time I'm near where my boat is stored, I'll try to get some pics of my install.

Thanks for the info! I am guessing the doghouse is the engine hatch?? I would love to see some pics of the installation and where the wires were run!

JohnnyB
12-23-2006, 09:46 PM
Yup, in either side of the engine cover.

I'm on crutches at the moment but will be bye the boat storage tomorrow....maybe I can get my wife to climb in and snap some pics...

quincyfirefighter
12-24-2006, 12:32 PM
Cameron, I think Diesel would be the one to talk to about this ;) . He has helped me in the past

erkoehler
12-24-2006, 01:39 PM
Stock system is clarion remotes/head unit you have pictured, However, the speakers/sub is JL Audio.

I'd definetly go with JL over clarion.

JohnnyB
12-24-2006, 08:07 PM
Here are some pics I took today...

3rd pic didn't turn out very well and after that, the cold (20deg this AM when I was over there) sapped my batteries....

Sodar
12-25-2006, 02:10 PM
Thanks! That is what I was looking for. Are those Clarion speakers?

Slinkyredfoot
12-25-2006, 05:29 PM
Wow, I screw up way to much in life the way it is, Why would I want someone else to help me?

JohnnyB
12-26-2006, 06:32 PM
Yup, they're Clarion Coaxials. I looked at the component speakers (both Clarion and JL) but settled on the Clarions. I'm sure the JLs are superior if you've got a good ear for this stuff....however, guns and heavy machinery have left me not able to tell the difference.

Best pricing I found was on HookedOnTronics.com

Good luck.....

If we get warmer weather, I'll get pics of the rest..

Sodar
12-26-2006, 10:24 PM
Thanks again for your help! I just priced out the two different options (JL Audio and Clarion). Clarion will be $700 cheaper than the JL Audio, so I am going to have to do some research before I can justify the added expense!

cbryan70
12-26-2006, 10:39 PM
Im pretty sure their are two types of 6 1/2 clarions. Get the more expensive ones....they are way better. I used to sell these speakers and for 30 extra bucks a pair or so it is well worth it

JohnnyB
12-27-2006, 08:44 AM
I don't remember the specifics, but do remember this as well.....

Sodar
12-27-2006, 09:34 AM
Yeah, there are two 6.5" versions... one is just a two way the other has a seperate tweeter. Hookedontronics does have some great deals though! Thanks!