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Bobby
12-08-2004, 12:32 PM
Ok, so I have a 1984 S&S that I would like to put a cd player in. I know I need an amp/cd deck/speakers/etc..., but I was just going to see what you guys on here have run. Should I bother with marine grade stuff? Do I need a dual battery setup? What I wire it all up to for power i.e. accessory power or straight from the battery? I'm starting all from scratch here so any and all help would be appreciated.thanks in advance.

east tx skier
12-08-2004, 12:40 PM
If you're planning on running serious wattage, then I think many would suggest that you go with dual batteries. If you're like me and are just doing a tuner and some speakers, then one battery ought to do ya.

Although people will attest that they've gone for years without the marine grade tuners, I think they're a good idea because, like everything in the boat, they'll get wet, the speakers especially. One thing you definitely should look for in a tuner as well is one that can play MP3s. There's nothing cooler than putting one CD-R in at the beginning of the season and never having to change it. 700 MB holds a good deal of music.

As for the install, just make sure you get that stabilizer bar hooked up in the back, and invest in one of those plastic covers for the tuner. I'm a fan of detachable face plates, too for when I park it at the launch and grab a burger at the nearby restaurant.

Ric
12-08-2004, 12:46 PM
If you're mounting in a dry area or have a marine cover for the face, then you don't need marine grade
There are a few cd players out there specifically for bumpy or rough applications and I think the only difference is the oversampling is a higher number on them. This will curb any skipping of the player when you hit normal bumps.
My sony played fine even hitting the wakes coming around the turn island after pulling someone up but I forget the model number of it.
You wont need a second battery unless you will run the amp for hours without starting the motor. I had 3 amps in my last boat and a good marine battery stayed strong for 2-3 hours of playing with the engine off so the second battery is not absolutely necessary.

Ric
12-08-2004, 12:49 PM
If you're planning on running serious wattage, then I think many would suggest that you go with dual batteries. If you're like me and are just doing a tuner and some speakers, then one battery ought to do ya.

Although people will attest that they've gone for years without the marine grade tuners, I think they're a good idea because, like everything in the boat, they'll get wet, the speakers especially. One thing you definitely should look for in a tuner as well is one that can play MP3s. There's nothing cooler than putting one CD-R in at the beginning of the season and never having to change it. 700 MB holds a good deal of music.

As for the install, just make sure you get that stabilizer bar hooked up in the back, and invest in one of those plastic covers for the tuner. I'm a fan of detachable face plates, too for when I park it at the launch and grab a burger at the nearby restaurant.
Doug what is the difference between an mp3 and an ipod?
I dont understand all that stuff.
can I make an mp3 myself on my cd burner or do I need special stuff?

jimmer2880
12-08-2004, 12:49 PM
Everything that Tx said... except for the marine head unit though. Don't need one. I have a non-marine grade in my '95 and one in my Soft Top Jeep. Both get wet regularly. Well - Actually - the one in the boat stays significantly drier than the on in the Jeep since I usually only have a bikini on her all summer. There really is very little difference between the typical marine grade & non-marine grade except for price & color. Some of the higher-end ones have waterproof face plates. But again - with a detach'able face, unless you're running in salt water, it'll never hurt it.

Definitely go with marine speakers unless you can keep water off them somehow. The paper cones don't like water. Having said that, my boat has paper-coned 6x9's installed by the previous owner (sometime before 2000). We do a fair amount of boom walking, etc. They get drenched & have never given me a bit of a problem.

just my .02 worth.

Diesel
12-08-2004, 12:52 PM
Ok, so I have a 1984 S&S that I would like to put a cd player in. I know I need an amp/cd deck/speakers/etc..., but I was just going to see what you guys on here have run. Should I bother with marine grade stuff? Do I need a dual battery setup? What I wire it all up to for power i.e. accessory power or straight from the battery? I'm starting all from scratch here so any and all help would be appreciated.thanks in advance.

Two batteries are always nice. Isolate the system so the radio only pulls of of the reserve battery. A high current relay will ensure both batteries get charged when the engine is running yet will isolate the batteries when the ignition is off.

I wouldn't worry about using marine stuff as long as you can keep the components from getting wet. I run Alpine control with Diamond Audio Amps and Speakers. Make sure you do not get paper cone speakers.

east tx skier
12-08-2004, 01:28 PM
See, I told you people would swear up and down that you don't need marine. :D

Ric, the nice thing about ipods is they're small, hold a lot of music, and are portable. The downside is that they're expensive and you'll have to run a connection to hook them up in your car or boat (unless you have a VW). I don't know if you have to download the music exclusively from Apple or not, but someone on here will know.

Heres a quick music compression lesson. CDs contain cda files. These files can be ripped to your computer as .wav files, or depending on your CD Burning software, as mp3 files. Assuming that your CD Burning Software doesn't have the MP3 ripping ability, you can get some free software from www.download.com called, if memory serves, wavtomp3encoder.

If you have an mp3 player in your tuner, what you can do is put your cds into your computer's cd rom tray, and select your favorite songs to rip to mp3, which is a compressed format. You can select size, etc., but the smaller you make it, the less clear/good it'll sound. All in all, they sound pretty good. So you rip them to your hard drive as MP3s, then you use your CD burning software to create a data disc chock full of MP3s. That disc will hold about 700 megabytes of music, which is a lot. Then, just throw the CD into the player on your boat, and hit shuffle, and you've got a pretty cool juke box.

When you try to put it into words, it looks like a bigger PITA than it actually is.

Bobby
12-08-2004, 03:45 PM
thanks for the input so far guys.

east tx skier, i always wondered how the MP3 on 700MB was supposed to work. My truck has an MP3 compatible cd player but could never figure out how to make it hold more than 80 minutes worth of stuff.

milkmania
12-08-2004, 04:00 PM
look at it like this....

(note the decimal points)
AC/DC's Hell's Bells wav format 52.4 MB
AC/DC's Hell's Bells MP3 format 4.75 MB

same song....different format

take a 700 mb disk,

700mb divided by 52.4 = 13.358...........
700mb divided by 4.75 = 147.368.........

saying that you can typically get 147 songs on an MP3 CD, as opposed to 13 on a .wav CD

fuzzy math :headbang:

Leroy
12-08-2004, 04:03 PM
Second Dougs recommendation on having MP3 capability on your radio. Look at the trade off of an IPOD and having aux audio inputs on your radio vs having MP3 built in to the radio. I have the stock Clarion marinel, BC MP3 or aux inputs and I miss them. ALso check out the satellite radio options. Everyone I've talked with loves them.

When you rip or burn your CD to hard disk I recommend 128kBPS which will normally be 3-4MB per song. Same if your getting your songs and you have a choice get 128kBPS (CD quality) or larger. I'm hard pressed to tell the difference. Normal CD song is 30-40MB so you achieve nominal 10X reduction in size. For the portable players you can resample again to 64kBPS (FM radio quality) and songs are normally 1-1.5MB. The storage on the IPOD makes that irrelevant now. Musicmatch is also pretty good player/ripper SW.

Think about the total power you are putting in, you may need high output alternator in addition to the second battery. Stock alternator is 51 or 63 amps or roughly 800 W max.

east tx skier
12-08-2004, 04:12 PM
thanks for the input so far guys.

east tx skier, i always wondered how the MP3 on 700MB was supposed to work. My truck has an MP3 compatible cd player but could never figure out how to make it hold more than 80 minutes worth of stuff.

80 minutes is uncompressed .wav -> CDA files. Like Leroy said, you can easily get several hours worth of music on one CD-R depending on how much you compress your mp3s. My ability to hear the extra 1s and 0s diminishes when I'm on the water anyway (especially with the added distortion of volume and competition with engine noise. Thus, I can go a bit smaller than I would if I was in my house or car.

Diesel
12-08-2004, 06:09 PM
I would be lost without my IPOD! This little device has to be the greatest invention this century. I use to carry a soft-sided case with 200 discs. Then I downsized to about 50 when I started recording MP3s. Now I have over 7900 songs in the palm of my hand. Click it in the truck for the ride to the lake. Once at the lake plug it into the boat and go. I have a connection in the house and my wife's truck so I am never without my tunes.

The best part is I have every song I own at all times. It is also much easier to find albums/songs than 50 MP3 discs. Even better it fits in my pocket!!

If you think you might want an MP3 device in the future make sure the deck you get has an AUX input or you will be screwed. Most decks today offer some type of AUX input but I would double check to be sure.

east tx skier
12-08-2004, 06:41 PM
I should have said that the people that have Ipods seem to love them. And for carrying 7900 songs in the palm of your hand, there's no substitute for the Ipod. I suppose it depends on what your needs/wants are. I have a ton of CDs, but the portability of all of them isn't high on my list of priorities. For me, I think the Ipod would be one more thing to misplace when I'm on my way to the lake. I literally left the CD in the boat's deck all last summer. I guess I don't play it enough to get a serious amount of repeats on my playlist. Just to and from, and when we ski, the stereo is off.

The Ipods are cool little devices all the same.

Ric
12-08-2004, 06:47 PM
so how does an ipod connect to my car stereo and or boat stereo? Is ipod also considered mp3 or totally different?

JimN
12-08-2004, 07:34 PM
iPods probably save the tracks as MP3, or is it a compressed Quicktime file? Either way, if it's a compressed file, it's not as clean as a regular CD Audio file, but they were meant to be more of a quantity file than a quality file. They sound fine but it's impossible to hear all of the details of the sound quality when you're outside or in a noisy environment, anyway. The rationale for doing it that way they did is that the brain can only process a certain amount of info, meaning that a person can only listen to so many details at one time, not everything. Some can listen to more than others. So, they leave out some of the data at low levels that are basically inaudible because of the higher volume bits. It saves space on the disc and/or file and that means that you can have close to 1000 songs on 5 discs, like we did on our last Grand Canyon rafting trip. It also means that you can hook your computer to your stereo and use it for an audio jukebox and it will play your DVDs(if it's new enough), CDs and MP3s.

I was going to mention Music Match, too. The basic version is free and works well. They even have a "radio station" on their site and a lot of different kinds of music, not just the top 40 crap. When you want to make a song list, you can decide what format to save them in and what order, with/without titles, etc. It's pretty cool.

Most new head units will play MP3s and some have a line input. The decision to go with a marine version is yours, but the main difference is that the circuit boards are epoxy coated and some have better vibration damping. Oversampling is actually more for sound quality than error correction. If the sampling rate is higher, the filters on the highest frequencies can be more gentle and this keeps the sound from being really harsh. Higher bit rate is where the error correction comes from.

André
12-08-2004, 08:27 PM
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JimN
12-08-2004, 09:24 PM
Ric- to answer your last question, if the head unit has a line audio input, the iPod headphone output will work, as long as the volume isn't set too high. If it distorts, just turn it down a bit. The head unit wants to see a regular audio signal.

I think that if I had an iPod, I'd probably have about 10,000 songs on it and want to hear something I don't have.

H20skeefreek
12-08-2004, 10:03 PM
thanks for the input so far guys.

east tx skier, i always wondered how the MP3 on 700MB was supposed to work. My truck has an MP3 compatible cd player but could never figure out how to make it hold more than 80 minutes worth of stuff.

My question is to you OUman. where are you going to put the speakers and tuner on your '84 Stars and Stripes?

Bobby
12-08-2004, 10:08 PM
That I do not know yet. I'll probably take some time this weekend to explore my options. As for now, must study for finals :mad: :mad:

H20skeefreek
12-09-2004, 09:33 AM
That I do not know yet. I'll probably take some time this weekend to explore my options. As for now, must study for finals :mad: :mad:

let me know what you figure out, as I haven't been able to figure out anything on the speakers. I don't really want to put them in the motor box, and if you put them in the dash, they won't be balanced side to side b/c of the dash pod

Zach S
12-09-2004, 09:55 AM
Keep us informed. I have an '85 that could use some tunes. I was giving some thought to purchasing a head unit with a remote and mounting the head unit in the storage area. Will probably require some kind of custom bracket, but would keep the stock look of the ole gal. :headbang:

east tx skier
12-09-2004, 11:26 AM
Ric, to answer one of your questions, basically, you're going to have some loose rca wires -> ipod connection attached you your tuner I presume. When you get into your boat, you plug your ipod in. If some of the car setups are any quide, you might run the connection under the dash to the glove box. Thus, you'd just open your glove box, locate the connection, and connect your ipod.

Ric
12-09-2004, 11:47 AM
sounds cool, so really any deck with a set of rca inputs for a cd changer would work with an ipod?

east tx skier
12-09-2004, 12:59 PM
To the best of my knowledge, yes. But I don't own one, so I'd check it out with the manufacturer.

sfitzgerald351
12-09-2004, 01:06 PM
where are you going to put the speakers and tuner on your '84 Stars and Stripes?

Check out the photos in my profile (click on the camera to the right of my name in this posit) I'll put some up of my arrangement. I have an 84 and put two speakers in the motor box and two in the back panel (I have no rear seat). Works really nicely. Head unit is in one of those removable watertight boxes mounted to the left of the mirror and I put a disconnect on the wires so I could remove the whole thing easily for theft protection. I have also seen people mount boxes just behind the driver and passenger seats on the sides to hold speakers. If you upholster them like the rest of the boat they don't look bad. However, with the amount of towels, etc... that seem to end up there I doubt you'd get great sound since the speakers would be covered...

Let me know if you have any questions.

JimN
12-09-2004, 01:07 PM
If it has a set of RCA jacks for a changer, it won't necessarily work. You need to be able to switch the head unit to that input. In a lot of cases, the changer needs to communicate with the head and if the head doesn't see data, it won't switch over. When you look at head units, take the iPod with you and ask if there's a way to try it out. If it's not too busy there, they should let you.

Why don't you post some pics of the dash and side panels so a location for the speakers and head unit can be worked out?