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lksamm
10-03-2006, 07:24 PM
Looking for some thoughts! I have a 2006 MC X1 the problem is there is a large bubble under the fuel tank were the linner and hull are not bonded. Also along both stringers there is signs of seperation, MC also identified this in production? there is AIR writen on the front engine mount area. The dealer wants to repair? My major concern is the bonding between the Linner and Hull my uunderstanding is the the two make a unibody hull for strength and is durability? What should I do?

6ballsisall
10-03-2006, 08:44 PM
Is see the dealer is involved. Is MC involved at this point?? Please tell me MC didn't ship that boat to you with the defects already pointed out like they knew it was messed up at the plant. :(

Chief
10-03-2006, 08:48 PM
How did you notice this? I have to check my boat now!

sand2snow22
10-03-2006, 09:23 PM
Not good, I'm guessing heads are going to roll on this one. MC marketing even says the boats are inspected to strict standards. I don't think John Dorton would think this was OK. Things do slip by all the time, but someone obviously caught this and it was not fixed? How is the dealer going to simulate factory chemically bonding the stringer to the hull? Where in the NW are you? If you're in Portland, I've seen Tyler fix a X-45 that was hit by a waverunner and it cracked the hull in half!! If he says he can do it, I would trust him. If you're in Seattle or Spokane, it might be a different story?

Eagle
10-04-2006, 12:27 AM
I'd presume someone with screen name lksamm is in the Seattle area. Did you buy the boat from Cope's?

lksamm
10-04-2006, 01:20 AM
Thanks for the replys.

To my knowledge MC no involved yet, Only Cope & McPheters

The problem was found when the bilge pump quit. I had to pull the gas tank to free the wiring that had been put under the fuel tank, shorting out the bilge pump.

Yes "AIR" was marked on the bottom from the factory.

dapicatti
10-04-2006, 01:47 AM
I know that there is a designated owner relations person at Mastercraft. I think that it may be a good idea to get them involved before posting more specifics on their website. I can't remember his name but I know someone here has it.

Workin' 4 Toys
10-04-2006, 07:53 AM
http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=7460

Workin' 4 Toys
10-04-2006, 07:54 AM
OWNER RELATIONS (http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=6433)

bigmac
10-04-2006, 08:04 AM
http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=7460


LOL. I remember that post. Did MasterCraft do any of the things Phil Walker mentioned? I see his last post was April 5th. Maybe they changed their mind about the importance of their web site.

beatle78
10-04-2006, 08:14 AM
Hi guys,

I'm not trying to burst any bubbles here, but I had a LONG conversation with my former MC dealer about 5 weeks ago. He's out at the end of '06. He said he wouldn't even carry the X-1's this year b/c, in his opinion, they were so poorly made. He carried many of the other models this year.

I hope MC makes this right for you!!!!:mad:

~beatle78

michael freeman
10-04-2006, 08:16 AM
Looking for some thoughts! I have a 2006 MC X1 the problem is there is a large bubble under the fuel tank were the linner and hull are not bonded. Also along both stringers there is signs of seperation, MC also identified this in production? there is AIR writen on the front engine mount area. The dealer wants to repair? My major concern is the bonding between the Linner and Hull my uunderstanding is the the two make a unibody hull for strength and is durability? What should I do?

My faith in MC just took a hit. I wonder what the hull looks like below my fuel tank???

Workin' 4 Toys
10-04-2006, 08:20 AM
LOL. I remember that post. Did MasterCraft do any of the things Phil Walker mentioned? I see his last post was April 5th. Maybe they changed their mind about the importance of their web site.
I was wondering if I missed the mark on that one.....;) Been waiting for that special occasion to dig it up.

Workin' 4 Toys
10-04-2006, 08:21 AM
My faith in MC just took a hit. I wonder what the hull looks like below my fuel tank???
Has it failed you? Then don't sweat it. If it fails, have it fixed.

bigmac
10-04-2006, 08:29 AM
Hi guys,

I'm not trying to burst any bubbles here, but I had a LONG conversation with my former MC dealer about 5 weeks ago. He's out at the end of '06. He said he wouldn't even carry the X-1's this year b/c, in his opinion, they were so poorly made. He carried many of the other models this year.

I hope MC makes this right for you!!!!:mad:

~beatle78I realize that the X1 is a price-point boat, but I'd be very surprised (and disappointed) if MasterCraft held that price down by compromising the build quality on that particular model. Frankly, I think your ex-dealer is wrong. I'm much more inclined to think that this is one of those one-in-a-thousand boats where a human-powered quality control process broke down rather than an indictment of an entire model line, and likely could just as well have happened on an X45, a WakeSetter, or even a Moomba (;) ).

I will say, though, that a delamination like that would suggest to me a serious hull construction flaw and I wouldn't trust that the rest of the hull was sound. I wouldn't accept a repair. I'd want either a new boat, or to have the boat entirely re-hulled, and I'd be very surprised if MasterCraft didn't step up. Cripes, I've seen them re-hull a boat for minor gelcoat cracks.

bigmac
10-04-2006, 08:37 AM
My faith in MC just took a hit. I wonder what the hull looks like below my fuel tank???I've never even heard of a MasterCraft hull failure. IMHO, chances are vastly in favor of the liklihood that your hull below your tank looks like the quality product that MasterCraft is reputed for.

lksamm
10-04-2006, 10:37 AM
Thanks for the contacts at MC. I will be talking today to Cope's and let them now that I will be contacting MC directly.

I want to let those that feel this was not the area to post this problem? I'm only looking for some advise. I have not posted all the pictures or concerns of the liner to hull construction. I hoped that my dealer would have done the right thing, they have been aware of the problem for almost two months and now are telling me that they want to just do a major repair job on a new boat!

Archimedes
10-04-2006, 10:49 AM
Comments redacted! "I don' want no trouble mister..."

beatle78
10-04-2006, 11:20 AM
yah, you're right about the hull, I guess my ex-dealer was more likely talking about what Archimedes said in his third paragraph above.

/edit

HEHEHEHE.... I like your analogy to flying monkeys and your quote is PRICELESS

"'06 X-1, Designed by experts but mine was apparently assembled by retards." Archimedes

beatle78
10-04-2006, 11:28 AM
oh, one more piece of advise: I had a problem with a few quality issues on my Malibu, the dealer was no help and when I contacted Malibu Corporate customer relations, they weren't getting it done.......

So I wrote a letter to the President, VP, VP of Sales, Regional Sales Manager, Production Manager, and some one else and it was VERY affective. Upper management HATES to here about problems.... needless to say, my issue was resolved in a matter of weeks.

Good luck.....

bigmac
10-04-2006, 11:35 AM
If I discovered such a fault on my boat, I would be itching to call MasterCraft directly about it, but I think that would be a mistake. It seems likely that the resolution of such a major problem would be directly between the dealer and MasterCraft and I doubt it would help the situation to piss off one of the players by going over their head.

Having said that, I guess I would have a time limit on how long I'd let the dealer dick around with it, but I think that before calling MasterCraft directly, I'd let the dealer know in an open and honest conversation that that's what I was planning on doing. I really think it would be important to keep them in the loop as long as possible. Personally, the first thing I'd do at this point is let them know in no uncertain terms that a hull repair was not acceptable to me.

JimN
10-04-2006, 11:36 AM
I doubt that there will be any other problems with the hull's performance but MC should be contacted about this. It's not that hard for them to remedy this kind of situation and even if they're trying to hit a price point, it won't kill them unless this is a very common problem (and I don't think it is).

If there's no water in the voids, 3M's System 2000 or Plexus could be injected and there's no way it would fail. These are both used as the adhesive for holding body panels on cars and trucks. We used Plexus to seal the "tuning boxes" on Malibu boats when they had leaks. Will knows the stuff I'm referring to.

Still, MC needs to be in the loop.

Tryin-again
10-04-2006, 11:42 AM
oh, one more piece of advise: I had a problem with a few quality issues on my Malibu, the dealer was no help and when I contacted Malibu Corporate customer relations, they weren't getting it done.......

So I wrote a letter to the President, VP, VP of Sales, Regional Sales Manager, Production Manager, and some one else and it was VERY affective. Upper management HATES to here about problems.... needless to say, my issue was resolved in a matter of weeks.

Good luck.....


The Squeaky wheel gets the Tequila!! :D

michael freeman
10-04-2006, 11:55 AM
I've never even heard of a MasterCraft hull failure. IMHO, chances are vastly in favor of the liklihood that your hull below your tank looks like the quality product that MasterCraft is reputed for.

I hate hearing about quality issues. Quality is very important to me. I trust MC to produce a quality product and the fact that such a large defect was found at the factory and not corrected is an issue. I never would expect MC to send out a boat after finding this type of problem.

By telling MC I have a problem with poor quality control, I apply pressure for them to correct their process or risk losing market share.

I bought a MC because it is known to be a high quality boat. I did not buy it because it has MC on the side of it. I'm part of the market share that expects MC to improve it's product and be better then the other ski boats. My money goes for the best product not the name.

ridehype4life
10-04-2006, 03:10 PM
We have had some small assembly/fit issues with our X1 as well.

Prostar19
10-04-2006, 04:28 PM
From the pictures I see it seems to be more of a floor liner issue than a hull issue. I am not trying to down play the fact that a mistake was made and someone missed an issue. but from what I see I can not say weather it is a major or minor issue. If it is a liner issue than it is probably a minor issue of that has no structural importance. I am just saying I see people jumping to conclusions that can not be made from the photos I have seen. I trust MC to do the right thing and fix the problem and if it warrants a new boat I fell they will do that to.
I have been through the plant and th X1 is made the same as the other models on the same assembly line.

Archimedes
10-04-2006, 04:51 PM
Note his later post where he indicates he did not post all the pictures of all the damage. He indicates that there is a serious issue beyond just some cosmetic problems.

River Rat
10-04-2006, 05:05 PM
I would be sick if that were my boat:( after paying that much money for a boat and finding that I would visit the dealer ship daily, (and since I would be sick I would up-chuck on someone's desk) until they gave me a new one:cry:

MYMC
10-04-2006, 05:05 PM
Wow...the snowball is gathering speed and size.

Let's see from the faithful here we already have "the boat is assembled by monkeys" or my personal favorite "06 X-1, Designed by experts but mine was apparently assembled by retards"...all I can say is WOW.

I'm not sure when insults became the norm for resolving a situation but I will ask those of you hurling them why you bought a MasterCraft? Obviously with such buffoons building the boats and management not giving a damn about build quality or fit and finish; sales are at an all time low and resale value of newer used MasterCraft's is in the toilet. Wait...that isn’t the case, MasterCraft sales are at all time highs and MasterCraft is number one in resale value. Further we lead all categories of warranty and CSI for ski boat builders (except for original warranty duration). Perhaps, just perhaps this is an isolated issue and maybe a dealer that has been canceled is not the best source for brand information. Out of 3690 boats built in 2006 how many more have you heard this about?

Lastly, why post this when the issue has just been discovered and NONE of the facts are known? Has the dealership involved MasterCraft Corp? Don't know. Is there really an air void? Don't know. None of us are there and every situation is different so to "arm chair quarterback" this over the internet is silly, and to hurl insults about the company and it's employee's before anything has been determined (good or bad) is truly in poor taste.

Now I think I'll go bash those mokeys at Microsoft (I have far more issues with PC's than boats) and when I'm done there I'll let those retards at Cingualr have a piece of my mind (service sucks on my phone)...and if there is time left I'll flame the boards about how stupid the people are at John Deere cause my tractor had an oil leak and obviously no cares!

Good lord people...give the system a chance.

Prostar19
10-04-2006, 05:08 PM
I still reserve comment unless I see it myself. I do not want to jump out and say no issue or big issue without all the facts. Just looking at what I saw seemed like people were jumping to conclusions. I would be very upset if MC does not fix it. I had a delamination issue on a 2002 297 I had and MC fixed it. It lookd like the same type of thing air trapped under the floor. But it did not involve the stringer system therfore was cosmetic. But I can not say his is the same. It just gets to me when people come out and say "They should give you a new boat" without knowing all the facts. If you had a dent in the trunck of your car does it warrant a new car. Mayby maby not.

Prostar19
10-04-2006, 05:10 PM
you go MYMC

ever landed a plane at night?

rodltg2
10-04-2006, 05:27 PM
the main reason i believe he deserves a new boat is to get him back out on the water asap. thats what made me mad about my whole ordeal. i knew my boat was fixable and that eventually would make a great boat, which it has for skipete. but i wish mc would have stepped up , given me new boat, figured out what was wrong with mine on their time. not mine! then the dealer can worry about seliing it . instead i was out a boat for more than half the summer and i took the huge loss when i sold it. if mc would have done that for me i would have been a mc customer for life...
all they had to do was got that extra mile to gain a customer for life and posive word of mouth.
i dont know this guys delam situation, but obviously it going to take along time to get it figured out and properly fixed. meanwhile he's stuck with out a boat and possibly making payments on somwehting he cant use.

a good loaner program would make a great asset to mc. the dealers should take trade in's and use them for loaner boats .

Archimedes
10-04-2006, 05:28 PM
Let's see from the faithful here we already have "the boat is assembled by monkeys" or my personal favorite "06 X-1, Designed by experts but mine was apparently assembled by retards"...all I can say is WOW.

I'm not sure when insults became the norm for resolving a situation but I will ask those of you hurling them why you bought a MasterCraft?


Comments removed. "Seriously, mister, I'm just passin' by, I don' want no trouble..."

G-man
10-04-2006, 05:29 PM
I don't understand the why post before you give the system a chance to work. If you haven't gotten anywhere with your dealer or don't feel comfortable with how the dealer is handling it contact MC. There is a big chance your dealer is operating under the MC's service/warranty policy. If your real uncomfortable with how they want to fix it or even the fact you have this problem contact MC by phone and a certified letter. I would hate to see this turn into another thread view over 5000 times just because it's a negative thing.

rodltg2
10-04-2006, 05:38 PM
but i rather read about this than " what lawn mower i should buy?" or should ump propose to his gilrfriend at a pastrie store.

this is real life issues actually regarding an mc boat and i think its good for us to see how it plays out. if all this site is about is saying how a great and dandy my mc is, then this is not a very subjective forum..

PendO
10-04-2006, 05:39 PM
The dealer wants to repair? My major concern is the bonding between the Linner and Hull my uunderstanding is the the two make a unibody hull for strength and is durability? What should I do?

why post this when the issue has just been discovered and NONE of the facts are known?

... I suppose when it is a customer in Seattle (a long ways from TN) and they have not liked the answers they got thus far, and they don't want a new boat "repaired," and they have no direct phone numbers to MC ... if this was a customer of yours, Jim's, or the shop Erk works for then I bet the customer would not feel the need to come to a board and look for some answers, but if they are not getting the answers from Copes they are left with little choice than to come here and look for answers ... and from what the board has seen (Ric's trailer issues) it is tough to get a call back from MC



I don't understand the why post before you give the system a chance to work.

What is the time frame on letting the system work?

lksamm
10-04-2006, 05:49 PM
Well I don’t want to sound like I’m unhappy with MC this is my second MC, I had a 1999 X Star. This why I bought the X1, I like the Boat the Looks, Quality and Performance and I have confidence in MC. That being said some more facts. Problem was identified to the dealer less than one month from delivery. I have been waiting two months for some answers. Today I received a call from MC warranty and service (not my dealer who was taking care of the issue?) They are not saying there going to replace the hull just they will make that determination upon inspection in TN? I too have confidence MC will do the right thing. I will keep all informed as to what happens.
If you have any other question or concerns about the boat I’m willing to discourse more off forum. :confused:

Roonie's
10-04-2006, 05:50 PM
two months (during prime summer time boating) is long enough for the system to work in my opinion........

time for Plan B

Harvey
10-04-2006, 05:52 PM
Wow...the snowball is gathering speed and size.

....post...

Good lord people...give the system a chance.

You make a good point and I agree that people should consider the fact that this is likely an isolated issue, however, I am still wondering if I should take my 100 hour X1 apart a little and check under the gas tank. I might just be one of the unlucky ones and not even know it. That type of fear will cause a panic in people.

P.S. I probably won't take my boat apart but I will pay closer attention to things in the future just to make sure I don't miss something like this.

dapicatti
10-04-2006, 05:52 PM
I am glad that you were able to get in touch with MC. Sometimes dealers don't have the same level of urgency as we owners do, which can be very upsetting. Keep us posted on the progress.

michael freeman
10-04-2006, 06:08 PM
Good lord people...give the system a chance.

I realize this information was not available when you wrote the above comment, but at two months and waiting, I believe the system had a fair chance.

Hopefully since MC contacted him, they will resolve this quickly from this point forward.

Archimedes
10-04-2006, 06:11 PM
Well I don’t want to sound like I’m unhappy with MC this is my second MC, I had a 1999 X Star. This why I bought the X1, I like the Boat the Looks, Quality and Performance and I have confidence in MC. That being said some more facts. Problem was identified to the dealer less than one month from delivery. I have been waiting two months for some answers. Today I received a call from MC warranty and service (not my dealer who was taking care of the issue?) They are not saying there going to replace the hull just they will make that determination upon inspection in TN?

Comments amended. "No mister, I wasn't looking at you. I'm just standin' here waitin for the bus. I don wan any trouble. I'm movin on..."

beatle78
10-04-2006, 07:07 PM
Hey Archimedes,

why did you change your quote? It was hilarious!!!! I really liked the other comment about flying monkeys......

Archimedes
10-04-2006, 07:15 PM
Hey Archimedes,

why did you change your quote? It was hilarious!!!! I really liked the other comment about flying monkeys......

Comments removed. Okay I gotta leave the one below...

[Memo #162 to my dealer: Grommet (def'n): A grommet is a rubber washer with a recessed channel around its outside diameter and a hole through its center. It is often used to line holes with exposed rough edges that might otherwise caused damage to things like electrical wire. One potential use for this space age technology would be to use it to line holes with exposed rough edges that you've drilled in say, a wakeboard tower, to route electrical wire for the anchor light. If grommets are not available, please see 'Electrical Tape', which can also be used for a similar purpose. If tape is not available, hell, just wire it up anyway, the customer can get his own damn grommet.]

beatle78
10-04-2006, 07:36 PM
actually, how can MC fix problems if you're not free to express your opinions (and your opinions are based on facts).

I've done research outside of this site and an MC dealer(soon to be ex dealer for other reasons) who spoke VERY highly of MC boats said the X-1 was NOT put together well at all.

WE all bought MC for quality, and if they dropped the ball, our voice should be heard so they can correct the problem.

My heart goes out to all those with the X-1.....

Archimedes
10-04-2006, 07:41 PM
Comments deleted. "Ah mister, did you have to go and hit me? I didn mean you no harm..."

erkoehler
10-04-2006, 07:49 PM
Amazingly enough, we have had zero issues with the construction, drivetrain, or any other parts of the X-1.

The only issues have been customer caused...

MasterCraft wouldn't make a sub-par product just to lower the price, the X-1 is built just as solid as all other boats.

Archimedes
10-04-2006, 07:55 PM
I agree with Erk, and not just because I own an X-1. The reason the X-1 is cheaper has nothing to do with its construction or quality, and it would make no sense for MC to build the boat or apply its QC procedures any different than any other boat in the line.

I'm sure this is an isolated issue and one that seems to have be exacerbated by a dealer that's moving slowly on it. Then again, those of us out here know that dealer well...

kennbarbie
10-04-2006, 08:19 PM
Im curious about something. You said the MC has to take a closer look at it in TN. Since you are over 40 hours drive time from them, who pays for the shipping of the boat?? Is MC going to cover that bill both ways??
And to think of the payments and intrest you pay, but not being able to use the boat.
I understand that things happen, just make sure you are covered and you feel you are being treated fairly. As a prospective buyer, im curious to see what the outcome is.

Prostar19
10-04-2006, 08:32 PM
beatle78,

I assure you there are no construction differences between the X1 and any other MC. They are built the same way with the same materials. MYMC can can verify this as well as JimB. I am sure they would welcome you to the factory at anytime on a tour and you will see what I saw.

Farmer Ted
10-04-2006, 08:39 PM
but i rather read about this than " what lawn mower i should buy?" or should ump propose to his gilrfriend at a pastrie store.

this is real life issues actually regarding an mc boat and i think its good for us to see how it plays out. if all this site is about is saying how a great and dandy my mc is, then this is not a very subjective forum..


don't you mean objective?

rodltg2
10-04-2006, 08:40 PM
i may wrong, but isnt the only reason the x1 is cheaper is beacuse its a hull design thats been around forever, not chepaer built.

yes farmer..

beatle78
10-04-2006, 08:48 PM
I hope so. I have developed a huge distrust for Corp. America ever since the "Bottom Line" has become more important than product quality..... I see this happening in every product we own.

I've had some of my own with Malibu (they handled it after a stern professiona letter), and I've reached a point where I make sure my voice is heard when problems arise.

I bought an MC b/c they were supposed to be the best. I believe my boat is one of the best.

However, can you tell me how can you make a boat one year for WELL over $40k and the next year for under $40k. There may be a reasonable explanation and the hull being around forever doesn't cut it. These boats are built by hand.

You can see where the consumer skepticism comes from.....

Prostar19
10-04-2006, 10:10 PM
Yes I can understand that it was a big price drop on the boat. I can not say as to why other than speculation. I assume that since this hull has been built since 1998 that the tooling involved has been fully depreciated. There were items taken off the X1 that use to be standard on the old X2 whic has lowered the cost. Maybe MC decidedd to make less money on the boat to get new buyers in to MC. Who really knows outside MC. I do know that the material and workmanship are the same for all MC's. Even the X1. Are you close enough to tour the factory? IF so I urge you to do so. Then you can see for yourself and not have to take my word for it. I am sure there must be other people online here that have had the tour and seen the X1 being built.

erkoehler
10-04-2006, 10:17 PM
However, can you tell me how can you make a boat one year for WELL over $40k and the next year for under $40k. There may be a reasonable explanation and the hull being around forever doesn't cut it. These boats are built by hand.

You can see where the consumer skepticism comes from.....

You do it by removing all unnecessary creature comforts from the boat. No alluminum dash, no billet dash, plastic toggles, no perfect pass, no standard KGB option, no swing away trailer, no boat buddy, no board racks, no stereo, no cleats, EVERYTHING ON THE BOAT IS AN OPTION!

The hull has been around for a LONG TIME which does lower the cost.

Archimedes
10-04-2006, 11:42 PM
You do it by removing all unnecessary creature comforts from the boat. No alluminum dash, no billet dash, plastic toggles, no perfect pass, no standard KGB option, no swing away trailer, no boat buddy, no board racks, no stereo, no cleats, EVERYTHING ON THE BOAT IS AN OPTION!

The hull has been around for a LONG TIME which does lower the cost.

Exactly! The X2 and X1 are the same boat and most X1s sold have all the options and are the same price of the prior X2. The X1 is cheaper because it's an old hull design, its smaller, and it has less costly components in it.

The issue that this owner is facing could have happened on any MC boat.

Workin' 4 Toys
10-05-2006, 08:29 AM
but i rather read about this than " what lawn mower i should buy?" or should ump propose to his gilrfriend at a pastrie store.
And you have never posted anything useless on here right...........:rolleyes:
Tell is more about the mullet...8p Just kiddin' Mr Bu'....Relax and take a Colace....

MYMC
10-05-2006, 09:08 AM
you go MYMC

ever landed a plane at night?
Last Thursday after coming back from the Dealer Advisory Board meeting.

beatle78
10-05-2006, 09:08 AM
good explanation, thanks....

oh back to the issue at hand.....

a resident of my lake had an '04 Air Nautique that developed stress cracks during the first season..... they had to FIGHT to get a new boat and they finally won....... Keywork is they had to FIGHT and put up a stink. If the dealer an MC have been sitting on this for 2 months already, they may need you to give them a FIRM nudge to get your matter dealt with........

MYMC
10-05-2006, 09:27 AM
but i rather read about this than " what lawn mower i should buy?" or should ump propose to his gilrfriend at a pastrie store.

this is real life issues actually regarding an mc boat and i think its good for us to see how it plays out. if all this site is about is saying how a great and dandy my mc is, then this is not a very subjective forum..
You're right Rod...to a point.

If the remarks were contructive instead of insult based, if ALL the facts were known and if there had been some sort of action taken (we were aware of) that was either good or bad, then it would be a genuine learning experience. Instead this turns into what they all turn into...poor build quality, poor QC, built by idiots, make them buy it back, I'd drive it through the dealers window etc and so on...I'll ask you what is constructive about any of that? Where does MC or anyone else for that matter learn anything from the majority of the posts on this thread?

MYMC
10-05-2006, 09:29 AM
two months (during prime summer time boating) is long enough for the system to work in my opinion........

time for Plan B
The boat was not inoperable and the factory was aware of the situation...so I disagree.

MYMC
10-05-2006, 09:36 AM
beatle78,

I assure you there are no construction differences between the X1 and any other MC. They are built the same way with the same materials. MYMC can can verify this as well as JimB. I am sure they would welcome you to the factory at anytime on a tour and you will see what I saw.
Doubt he would take me up on it since he is busy with his "heart going out to X1 buyers"...silly me I reserved such actions for families that suffer tragic losses.

bcampbe7
10-05-2006, 09:36 AM
Wow...

I just now saw this thread.

Before this goes any further down the wrong road, I will direct everyone to MYMC's post. He is spot on and there is no reason for me to restate what he is saying.

Please keep this thread above the belt.

Roonie's
10-05-2006, 11:01 AM
The boat was not inoperable and the factory was aware of the situation...so I disagree.


If this was a brand new sports car Porsche 911, and the paint started peeling 1 month after bought, You can be damn sure I wouldn't be waiting two months with no answer from the dealer at all?? That would be 1 month 3 weeks too long. Makes me go hmmm... how committed to their product are they? Yes problems can happen with individual boats (which is to be expected with any product) but it is the follow up and customer service to fix the problem that matters.

If they want their customers to be committed to their product for life they need to have better customer service being this was a brand new boat 1 month old when problem arose. Awareness is one thing action is another.

Tryin-again
10-05-2006, 11:15 AM
Looking objectively at this situation...

From MYMC we learned that MC builds about 10 boats per day (3690 in '06) if you count every dayof the year. That leaves some room for flaws occasionally. I know most of us expect perfection 100% of the time - but that isn't realistic...Sh*t's gonna happen.

Next you have the dealer network, the chain of command within the dealership then the chain of command at MC factory... Plus the actual boat is in the northwest and the factory is in Tenn...

Now, at this point (early in the process) it is not feasible for them to ship the boat back to the factory - just to analyze the problem, nor spend $1000.00 to fly someone out to look at this issue....
or MC replacing a boat or even paying for a loaner. All of the above raises their costs and that would be passed on to us with our new boat purchases. So I would think we wouldn't want that to happen unless the boat is absolutely useless....

Yes, were it me, I would want communication from the dealer. I would want to know is it being explored - and I might become a pest to the dealer (Mine is close to me -I know some aren't convenient) or contact MC if communication wasn't satifactory...

Most of us here did our due dilligence and bought a MC because of the quality or the wake (big or small) or the bling or the Bad A$$ motor or maybe just the beer/cup holders and we also like the resale value ;) - so did MC establish themselves as a great company who makes a great product by putting out years of junk and not keeping client happy? - probably not..

Insulting the company / the people involved / the dealers on a public forum really does nothing productive....

Sorry if this is a useless post to some - maybe I should just stick to drinkin' - Hooser, need a drinkin' buddy?

MYMC
10-05-2006, 11:43 AM
If this was a brand new car and the paint started peeling I wouldn't be waiting two months with no answer from the dealer at all?? That would be 1 month 3 weeks too long. Makes me go hmmm... how committed to their product are they? If they want their customers to be committed to their product for life they need to have better customer service being this was a brand new boat 1 month old when problem arose. Awareness is one thing action is another.
Allow me to retort...my brand new (less than a week old) 1 ton diesel truck suffered an engine failure in the first week. According to the service techs they had never seen anything like it...an injector stuck open, caused a hydraulic condition which literally caused the block to fracture in half. According to the engine manufactuer they had no back stock and I had to wait 39 days for an engine. BTW, they offered no loaner past the first week...and I earn my living with trucks...oh and this isnt the first time that this type of thing has happened to me.

So what is my point? Bad things happen to good people, everything we are referring to is man made and mistakes happen. If you trust the brand enough to purchase multiple times then trust enough to know that it will be handled to everyone's satisfaction; and if not then there are plenty of resources available to you (legal and otherwise)...

I don't know the facts surrounding this anymore than anyone else so I won't comment on what I don't know. What I do know is that in dealing with this company since 1999 I have NEVER been dissapointed in the way they support the prodcut.

MYMC
10-05-2006, 11:48 AM
If this was a brand new sports car Porsche 911, and the paint started peeling 1 month after bought, You can be damn sure I wouldn't be waiting two months with no answer from the dealer at all?? That would be 1 month 3 weeks too long. Makes me go hmmm... how committed to their product are they? Yes problems can happen with individual boats (which is to be expected with any product) but it is the follow up and customer service to fix the problem that matters.

If they want their customers to be committed to their product for life they need to have better customer service being this was a brand new boat 1 month old when problem arose. Awareness is one thing action is another.
Ask 996 owners about RMS leaks on brand new $100,000 and up cars that were down for months because there was no repair available...only engine exchange. Same for early Boxsters (actually worse due to porosity in casting issues) but those aren't really Porsches;) ...it happens to everyone.

Archimedes
10-05-2006, 11:54 AM
Looking objectively at this situation...

Insulting the company / the people involved / the dealers on a public forum really does nothing productive....

Sorry if this is a useless post to some - maybe I should just stick to drinkin' - Hooser, need a drinkin' buddy?

Comment edited out. "Can't a guy get a witness?!"

Tryin-again
10-05-2006, 12:10 PM
For me personally, my final assembly monkey comments may have been a bit strong, but if I'm being honest, I still have to stand by them, Just trying to keep it honest on here, and share experiences with others. That is what a forum is supposed to be, isn't it?

My guess in this case is that it's a random problem, something that happens to every boat manufacturer, and this guy's dealer just needs to be communicating better with their customer. I know the dealer in question in this case and [brain filter steps in to preserve the chance that I might be able to get my boat serviced in the future].


Hey, I liked your monkey comment... I have read your post in the past and understand your frustrations.. I wouldn't call that a real insult.

I agree - Communication is neccesary - and if dealer doesn't respond I would scream louder.... all the way to the factory - If I had to.... And there was a old post here from Greg C at MC where he opened himself up to the members. If I had a problem I would go that route if I couldn't get no satisfation... ( hey, that could be a song) :D

There are solutions.......... Usually :rolleyes:

michael freeman
10-05-2006, 12:32 PM
You do it by removing all unnecessary creature comforts from the boat. No alluminum dash, no billet dash, plastic toggles, no perfect pass, no standard KGB option, no swing away trailer, no boat buddy, no board racks, no stereo, no cleats, EVERYTHING ON THE BOAT IS AN OPTION!

The hull has been around for a LONG TIME which does lower the cost.

I would also guess that all the engineering and tooling cost have been covered by this time, and therefore the per unit cost of the boat has been reduced.

ntidsl
10-05-2006, 12:36 PM
yeah know...communication and letting things sit on back burners is the problem here...the dealer should have contacted MC right away...but chances are they let it sit for a while while they thought about it...then when they called someone a couple days passed before MC returned the call...then at that point someone said..."well let me look into it..." then weeks go by...then months...I have been waiting since June for MC to do what they promised with my boat....Ric has been waiting months for a solution on the trailer and right now there is cutting boards thrown into the mix...sounds like Archimedes hasnt been treated the way he's like to be treated...is it the dealers? cause mine lost MC since my fiasco? Is it MC? is the stove too large to reach the back burner? A few of us have been simmering for month and are just about to boil over...

I'm tired of venting on here, some people arent...let them vent, its better than talking about which beer brewing kit to buy I agree...but I think if MC is paying to keep this forum on line it would be worthwhile for them to actually read whats going on and do something about it!!!!!

rodltg2
10-05-2006, 12:45 PM
Allow me to retort...my brand new (less than a week old) 1 ton diesel truck suffered an engine failure in the first week. According to the service techs they had never seen anything like it...an injector stuck open, caused a hydraulic condition which literally caused the block to fracture in half. According to the engine manufactuer they had no back stock and I had to wait 39 days for an engine. BTW, they offered no loaner past the first week...and I earn my living with trucks...oh and this isnt the first time that this type of thing has happened to me.

So what is my point? Bad things happen to good people, everything we are referring to is man made and mistakes happen. If you trust the brand enough to purchase multiple times then trust enough to know that it will be handled to everyone's satisfaction; and if not then there are plenty of resources available to you (legal and otherwise)...

I don't know the facts surrounding this anymore than anyone else so I won't comment on what I don't know. What I do know is that in dealing with this company since 1999 I have NEVER been dissapointed in the way they support the prodcut.

im sure this sort of thing happens to cars/trucks often. although you depend on your vehicle day to day and most of us only use our boats for recreation, you'd think our vehicle would bring us down more. but it doesnt! cars and trucks are more common. we are passionate about our boats and you cant just go borrow or rent one . i think most of of would rather miss a day or two of work than a weekend on the lake. i would much rather be out my truck for two months thasn loose two months of summer.

east tx skier
10-05-2006, 12:45 PM
"...and this is an open forum and you're gonna get different perspectives and emotions."

....

"Just trying to keep it honest on here, and share experiences with others. That is what a forum is supposed to be, isn't it?"



Ideally, I would agree with you 100%.

The reason the line may be drawn a little differently on here is due to the fact that this forum is owned and operated by the company toward which the comments are directed. Like others, there are opinions I hold which I do not post here because of the posting guidelines. It is no doubt a fine, blurry line. And it's not to suggest that frustrations any of us may experience with these boats are not valid. It's just the way it is.

But to reiterate what Beau stated earlier, please try to respect the posting guidelines MasterCraft, as the owner of this forum, has established.

Roonie's
10-05-2006, 12:46 PM
Agree..... I am about to spend 68k for a new x15 from this same dealer so it makes me a little apprehinsive to say the least. I am buying for fit and finish and quality of the product. If there is a problem I would hope it gets resolved efficiently and quickly.

Archimedes
10-05-2006, 12:47 PM
Point taken ETS. :)

Tryin-again
10-05-2006, 01:00 PM
Agree..... I am about to spend 68k for a new x15 from this same dealer so it makes me a little apprehinsive to say the least. I am buying for fit and finish and quality of the product. If there is a problem I would hope it gets resolved efficiently and quickly otherwise I could easily spend that 68k on a Cobalt and be more than happy with their customer service as it is top notch.


I think that a great many companies could enhance their customer service.... My boat partner also has another boat that he bought new, paid big $$ for - but the customer rep called him personally after the first weekend he got the boat... Asked all about his enjoyment, likes, dislikes, problems, etc... Gave him his number and then called him 2-3 more times in the following months...

THAT's GOOD SERVICE :cool:

Oh yea it was an expensive boat - but not much more than MC new boats - cheaper than X-80....

rick s.
10-05-2006, 01:29 PM
Well, I guess that I will add my $0.02 worth here.

Just because the hull design of the x1 is older, that really doesn't make it less expensive. Tools (hull & deck molds) wear out and are replaced regularily. Don't know what that "regular" interval is, but they do wear out and are costly to replace.

MC keep records on all boats they build. I honestly don't think they would let a boat leave the plant with a known defect that could potentially cause serious future issues. My guess is that the void in the hull/liner was pointed out to QC. QC probably had a discussion with Engineering and decided to ship the boat because the void would not cause an operational problem. I suspect there are notes in the boat's file that indicate this discussion. (That's the way we would do it.)

Why do I think this? For one reason, reputation. Another reason, my dealer is chasing 400 rpms. I thought the new boat (x45 w/mcx) was overpropped as it is running 4600 wot (55 hours) instead of the 4800 - 5200 wot range according to the manual. This was reported to MC, they pulled the test file on the boat and the file showed that the boat ran 5000 on the lake prior to shipment. So where did these rpm's go?

We keep files on every system that goes out of here, and I really think that MC does the same thing.

Is two months long? Yes. Should a new boat be given? If the void is serious enough to pull the boat out of operation, then yes. It's how we would do it. Who's decision was it to stop using the boat? The dealers? MC's? The owner's? This would also be a factor in whatever direction is taken regarding repair / replacement.

If it is not serious enough to affect the boat's performance, reliability, strength, operation, then probably not. Should it be fixed under warranty? yes.

Again, my 2 cents.

Ric
10-05-2006, 03:05 PM
but i rather read about this than " what lawn mower i should buy?" or should ump propose to his gilrfriend at a pastrie store.

this is real life issues actually regarding an mc boat and i think its good for us to see how it plays out. if all this site is about is saying how a great and dandy my mc is, then this is not a very subjective forum.. :cool: .

michael freeman
10-05-2006, 03:13 PM
Agree..... I am about to spend 68k for a new x15 from this same dealer so it makes me a little apprehinsive to say the least. I am buying for fit and finish and quality of the product. If there is a problem I would hope it gets resolved efficiently and quickly.

This is my point exactly. I spent in the same neighborhood for my X30 and I expect the high cost I paid for a 23' boat would have bought me the highest fit and finish available in the market place and a high quality product.

My concern came from the factory knowing of the problem (via factory markings made on the boat) and letting it go out the door without being repaired or replaced. That is a little disturbing after paying the amount of money I and others have paid for our MC boats.

Workin' 4 Toys
10-05-2006, 03:19 PM
Ideally, I would agree with you 100%.

The reason the line may be drawn a little differently on here is due to the fact that this forum is owned and operated by the company toward which the comments are directed. Like others, there are opinions I hold which I do not post here because of the posting guidelines. It is no doubt a fine, blurry line. And it's not to suggest that frustrations any of us may experience with these boats are not valid. It's just the way it is.

But to reiterate what Beau stated earlier, please try to respect the posting guidelines MasterCraft, as the owner of this forum, has established.
That being said, I can go on here on my own free will and say I don't like how much Hoosier Bob "says" he drinks and not suffer any repercussions of any sort. 8p

michael freeman
10-05-2006, 03:32 PM
Well, I guess that I will add my $0.02 worth here.

Just because the hull design of the x1 is older, that really doesn't make it less expensive. Tools (hull & deck molds) wear out and are replaced regularily. Don't know what that "regular" interval is, but they do wear out and are costly to replace.

The hours spent to design the boat, tooling, and code for the CNC, etc., is very expensive. These costs are distributed across the number of boats produced. After that non-reoccurring cost is recovered, technically the boat can be sold for a lesser amount without reducing profits.

TMC
10-05-2006, 03:43 PM
It is me again -

All that needs to be said from a moderators point has been said so I do not want to be a broken record. And the thread has not been closed or deleted because MasterCraft does not want to add insult to lksamm's injury. However, I feel you may need an update as to what is going on.

First of all, until we are aware of the problem, we cannot do much about it. Does that mean we should be the first call you make? No, that is what our dealer network is for - you should go to them first. But in the rare case (and I do mean rare - we just received another award for excellent customer service at the dealers rated by owners) they do not respond then we do need to be informed. We will always back our product if indeed the problem is the product. With that said, we do now know about the issue with the X-1 and we are taking steps to resolve it and you can have the faith we will do what is right.

One last point - you guys are not clueless and you know that we read these boards. In many cases, we have found out about problems through TT and have been able to help resolve them proactively. However, the fact we read them can be a curse as well. If the rhetoric begins to leave the realm of reality (i.e. just give him a boat) or insulting begins, people around here know that too and begin to wonder the worth of the boards. So just be aware and use the boards to get help in a calm, patient manner.

Thanks you guys.

Jason

Archimedes
10-05-2006, 03:44 PM
The hours spent to design the boat, tooling, and code for the CNC, etc., is very expensive. These costs are distributed across the number of boats produced. After that non-reoccurring cost is recovered, technically the boat can be sold for a lesser amount without reducing profits.

Yes, but you're assuming that they 'price' each model based on that type of cost matching, which I doubt they do strictly. It wouldn't make sense from a business perspective. One of the benefits of growing as a company is leveraging your brand and the margins earned on older products for new investment. I doubt that MCs prices are directly related to the 'fully' amortized costs related to each boat. There may be some slight relationship, largely driven by the market realities of an older hull being less valuable to consumers for a variety of reasons, but it wouldn't make sense for it to be a direct 1:1 relationship.

Plus, I'm sure MC prices each boat based on what they think the maximum price the market will bear for each boat and they let the market decide what the old hull design is worth. In the case of the 205 hull, I think the evidence is that it's a design that's still worth a lot in the marketplace.

Mid Ohio Watersports
10-05-2006, 03:52 PM
From my point of view I would always let the dealer know ASAP and then let the dealer know you are going to contact Mastercraft. Most of the time the dealers try to take of the problem as soon as possible. The manufactures tend to either say NO or wont give the dealer an answer. This leaves the impression to the customer that the dealer does not care and most of the time that is not the case. But once the customer contacts the manufacture they seem to change their answer. It can be fustrating for the dealer......I know. my 2 cents ;)

east tx skier
10-05-2006, 04:22 PM
That being said, I can go on here on my own free will and say I don't like how much Hoosier Bob "says" he drinks and not suffer any repercussions of any sort. 8p

America! What a country! I love it!

wiltok
10-05-2006, 04:57 PM
I've read most of this thread - and all I can say is kudos to MC for not deleting or editing this thread. I've had some problems with my boat - and I really think it is the dealer that makes or breaks your experience.

Case in point - I had a repeated problem with my boat. I had an ignition part replaced 4 or 5 times - the dealer did warranty the part even though the boat was out of warranty (it went out under warranty once and then needed to replaced again after the warrantly had expired). So I am at a boat show talking with one of the guys from the dealer and offhandedly mentioned the problem I had - it turned out the guy I was talking to was the one of the mechanics who had been working on my boat (this conversation happened a year or two after the problem had occured). He remembered my name, the problem and told me that they had called MasterCraft for quidance (without me asking to do so). That made me feel really good that they not only worked with me to warranty the part but also reached out to MC to resolve. The dealer was Action Water Sports in Hudsonville MI - great people to do business with...

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-05-2006, 05:24 PM
That being said, I can go on here on my own free will and say I don't like how much Hoosier Bob "says" he drinks and not suffer any repercussions of any sort. 8p
Those are always the same beer cans in every photo. He just wants us to think he is "cool" and drinks alot:rolleyes: Its all just a"smoke and mirrors." illusion.:D

6ballsisall
10-05-2006, 05:30 PM
I love the friendly banter on here.

However, I want to give props to Jason B (TMC) for so eloquently addressing the issue here. Very nice Jason. Furthermore, it is great to see MC not only step up and help out in this rare product issue but furthermore, without showing irritation or frustration post here about the situation. Being in a role myself where you are always under the customers eyes (and I might even go so far to say that my customers are more scrutiness than MC owners!) I can appreciate the flack someone like a Jason B. or the MC relations dept. might take on a day to day basis. Some of it is probably warranted, some of it is just plain ridiculous. It's easy to get jaded in those cases and slip and make remarks you might regret someday. BUT, since I've been here w/ my 7,500+ posts (someday Easty, someday :D ) I can whole heartedly say Jason has done a great job responding professionally to each situation that needed addressed.

Nice work Jason!

michael freeman
10-05-2006, 06:46 PM
It is me again -

All that needs to be said from a moderators point has been said so I do not want to be a broken record. And the thread has not been closed or deleted because MasterCraft does not want to add insult to lksamm's injury. However, I feel you may need an update as to what is going on.

First of all, until we are aware of the problem, we cannot do much about it. Does that mean we should be the first call you make? No, that is what our dealer network is for - you should go to them first. But in the rare case (and I do mean rare - we just received another award for excellent customer service at the dealers rated by owners) they do not respond then we do need to be informed. We will always back our product if indeed the problem is the product. With that said, we do now know about the issue with the X-1 and we are taking steps to resolve it and you can have the faith we will do what is right.

One last point - you guys are not clueless and you know that we read these boards. In many cases, we have found out about problems through TT and have been able to help resolve them proactively. However, the fact we read them can be a curse as well. If the rhetoric begins to leave the realm of reality (i.e. just give him a boat) or insulting begins, people around here know that too and begin to wonder the worth of the boards. So just be aware and use the boards to get help in a calm, patient manner.

Thanks you guys.

Jason

I purchased my brand new X-30 after seeing it at the boat show and finding this site to research the boat and options. Please add the profit from that boat purchase to the "worth of the boards" column. ;)

BTW, the Customer Service I have seen from MC on this board was a large modifier in my brand choice. I felt MC would take care of me and my very expensive boat if a problem came up. This board is valuable to us and to MC.

Roonie's
10-05-2006, 08:23 PM
We will always back our product if indeed the problem is the product. With that said, we do now know about the issue with the X-1 and we are taking steps to resolve it and you can have the faith we will do what is right.



Thanks..... you addressed my concerns.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-05-2006, 08:44 PM
I love the friendly banter on here.

However, I want to give props to Jason B (TMC) for so eloquently addressing the issue here. Very nice Jason. Furthermore, it is great to see MC not only step up and help out in this rare product issue but furthermore, without showing irritation or frustration post here about the situation. Being in a role myself where you are always under the customers eyes (and I might even go so far to say that my customers are more scrutiness than MC owners!) I can appreciate the flack someone like a Jason B. or the MC relations dept. might take on a day to day basis. Some of it is probably warranted, some of it is just plain ridiculous. It's easy to get jaded in those cases and slip and make remarks you might regret someday. BUT, since I've been here w/ my 7,500+ posts (someday Easty, someday :D ) I can whole heartedly say Jason has done a great job responding professionally to each situation that needed addressed.

Nice work Jason!
I dont know....I still say we rename this place the "Mag Mania Forum":D ;) 8p

PendO
10-06-2006, 12:23 AM
Nice, its great to see the Monkeys have a sence of humor:)

TMCNo1
10-06-2006, 09:00 AM
Nice, its great to see the Monkeys have a sence of humor:)


:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

RexDog1
10-06-2006, 09:22 AM
Good thing I wore my dress today………and you should see my new pumps:cool:




“We will always back our product if indeed the problem is the product.”

Thank you Jason!

beatle78
10-06-2006, 09:50 AM
B4 I say anything. I love MC boats and they are the best...... That why I bought an MC a few weeks ago (anyone want to my my '01 BU?)

Here's a quote from the TMC Admin aka MOMMY....

"However, the fact we read them can be a curse as well. If the rhetoric begins to leave the realm of reality (i.e. just give him a boat)" TMC

Well, it looks like you can rule out getting a new boat..... and in my opinion, that suggestion has not left the realm of reality. If I spent $40k-$50k on a new boat and there was a major issue with the hull(I'm not in any position to say if this is such a case)..... then Yes, a new boat(at least the hull) would be in order.....

Well, I'm done here.... back to using the boards for more useful things, like my massive fuel leak that sprayed over a gallon of gas into my bilge :(

Good luck with your boat man......

PendO
10-06-2006, 09:55 AM
B4 I say anything. I love MC boats and they are the best...... That why I bought an MC a few weeks ago (anyone want to my my '01 BU?)

Here's a quote from the TMC Admin aka MOMMY....

"However, the fact we read them can be a curse as well. If the rhetoric begins to leave the realm of reality (i.e. just give him a boat)" TMC

Well, it looks like you can rule out getting a new boat..... and in my opinion, that suggestion has not left the realm of reality. If I spent $40k-$50k on a new boat and there was a major issue with the hull(I'm not in any position to say if this is such a case)..... then Yes, a new boat(at least the hull) would be in order.....

Well, I'm done here.... back to using the boards for more useful things, like my massive fuel leak that sprayed over a gallon of gas into my bilge :(

Good luck with your boat man......

In Jason's (TMC's) defense ... there have been some threads that had a lot of rhetoric ... somewhere Eastie should put a link to the "classic" threads:) TMC does one Helluva job, even if he has had a negative impact on my post count.

I think in the end the "classic" threads have all led to an incredible ammount of confidence in MC's customer service, however, many of the threads get started b/c of customer/dealer miscommunication or no-communication ... IMO.

bigmac
10-06-2006, 09:59 AM
A lemon can be produced in any manufacturing process. IMHO, the more important concept is not that lemons occur, it's what the company does to fix the problem. MasterCraft, like other manufacturers, has to rely on their dealer network for the initial management of those problems. A good dealer can totally defuse a customer's dissatisfaction with a manufacturing defect. Unfortunately, there are some occasional glitches in the dealer system. This is not a problem that is unique to MasterCraft, certainly, but MasterCraft is not immune, as several threads here in the last year would suggest.

jkski
10-06-2006, 10:32 AM
A quick rant.....
I am certain that many of us have had issues which were promptly taken care of, however, it is rare that we see the praise for those people put on display. I am just as guilty as the next person, but do we really think that a quality company like MC would fail to stand behind their product if there truly is an issue. This board could probably be easily overrun with "thank you's" if we all thought about the little and big things that have been done for us that weren't "expected."

Roonie's
10-06-2006, 10:54 AM
I think it is awesome the company has a board like this so people can talk about their boats including problems. This is one reason I am buying a MC because of the extended network beyond the dealer. New to the MC (and this board) I am glad to hear also they stand behind their product and are not just concerned with selling it but the follow up as well which is more important than the sell in my opinion. The sale transaction takes about 30 minutes where the continued realtionship hopefully lasts a lifetime.

LakePirate
10-06-2006, 11:06 AM
The sale transaction takes about 30 minutes where the continued realtionship hopefully lasts a lifetime.


Apparently you have not been lurking either. Buying a boat around here is a long and painstaking process. Just ask ERK, (ERK the buyer that is, not coffee guzzling, plaid double-knit snas-a-belt slack wearing, vanity license plate havin, talking StevO to slalom behind an X-Star ERK)

Tryin-again
10-06-2006, 11:11 AM
B4 I say anything. I love MC boats and they are the best...... That why I bought an MC a few weeks ago (anyone want to my my '01 BU?)

Here's a quote from the TMC Admin aka MOMMY....

"However, the fact we read them can be a curse as well. If the rhetoric begins to leave the realm of reality (i.e. just give him a boat)" TMC

Well, it looks like you can rule out getting a new boat..... and in my opinion, that suggestion has not left the realm of reality. If I spent $40k-$50k on a new boat and there was a major issue with the hull(I'm not in any position to say if this is such a case)..... then Yes, a new boat(at least the hull) would be in order.....

Well, I'm done here.... back to using the boards for more useful things, like my massive fuel leak that sprayed over a gallon of gas into my bilge :(

Good luck with your boat man......

To BE fair...

I didn't interpret Jason's comment (ie. give 'em a new boat) as they would never do that - But reading these boards there appears to be times when folks jump the gun and just say - give him a new one..

It appears that MC is gonna give Ric a trailer although it took a little time... I wasn't around when rodltg2 had his issues so I won't speculate on that..

But to put it in comparison - there are very few times that Auto dealers/companies will give you a new ride...

Just my 2 cents....

Jorski
10-06-2006, 11:49 AM
To BE fair...

But to put it in comparison - there are very few times that Auto dealers/companies will give you a new ride...

Just my 2 cents....

By way of example, a friend of mine bought a new Lexus 450SC a couple of years ago. The dealership offered a service where they would pick up and drop off your car when it needed service. The first time that they did this, the kid sent to pick up the car, scraped the entire side of his new car while he backed it out of the garage.

The result, a brand new one by the end of the week. The company took full responsibility for the problem and didn't even try to discuss fixing the car with their customer.

djhuff
10-06-2006, 12:27 PM
By way of example, a friend of mine bought a new Lexus 450SC a couple of years ago. The dealership offered a service where they would pick up and drop off your car when it needed service. The first time that they did this, the kid sent to pick up the car, scraped the entire side of his new car while he backed it out of the garage.

The result, a brand new one by the end of the week. The company took full responsibility for the problem and didd't even try to discuss fixing the car with their customer.

Another friend of mine bought one of those hybrid suv Lexus, apparently they vibrate a good bit while driving. After many engineers looked at it, they decided that it was just a trait of the car, and that if he was not satisfied, they would allow him to trade it for something else on their lot (he had about 20,000 miles on it) without taking any kind of depreciation.

Not saying that should happen here, but it does speak to how much mark up there is on a Lexus.

lksamm
10-06-2006, 04:06 PM
It is me again -

All that needs to be said from a moderators point has been said so I do not want to be a broken record. And the thread has not been closed or deleted because MasterCraft does not want to add insult to lksamm's injury. However, I feel you may need an update as to what is going on.

First of all, until we are aware of the problem, we cannot do much about it. Does that mean we should be the first call you make? No, that is what our dealer network is for - you should go to them first. But in the rare case (and I do mean rare - we just received another award for excellent customer service at the dealers rated by owners) they do not respond then we do need to be informed. We will always back our product if indeed the problem is the product. With that said, we do now know about the issue with the X-1 and we are taking steps to resolve it and you can have the faith we will do what is right.

One last point - you guys are not clueless and you know that we read these boards. In many cases, we have found out about problems through TT and have been able to help resolve them proactively. However, the fact we read them can be a curse as well. If the rhetoric begins to leave the realm of reality (i.e. just give him a boat) or insulting begins, people around here know that too and begin to wonder the worth of the boards. So just be aware and use the boards to get help in a calm, patient manner.

Thanks you guys.

Jason

Jason
Thanks for the support. I have confidence that MC will do the right thing. I was disappointed in the time it took my dealer to get anything going. I look forward to posting the resolution to the problem after MC gets the boat back to TN.

sand2snow22
10-06-2006, 04:46 PM
[QUOTE=Tryin-again]

But to put it in comparison - there are very few times that Auto dealers/companies will give you a new ride... QUOTE]

What's the lemon law about?

sand2snow22
10-06-2006, 04:50 PM
lksamm, probably a good time for MC to take the boat back to TN and take a look/fix it. They took a boat back from my dealer a few years ago and replaced the top deck (spider crack problem). Good as new...I'm sure yours will be the same.....

Archimedes
10-06-2006, 04:54 PM
[QUOTE=Tryin-again]

But to put it in comparison - there are very few times that Auto dealers/companies will give you a new ride... QUOTE]

What's the lemon law about?

Exactly. Ask any Touareg owner and they'll likely be able to tell you all you need to know. Those things have been bought back by VW in droves.

trickskier
10-06-2006, 07:34 PM
WOW!! This thread has grown like wildfire. I was going to respond earlier, but had surgery yesterday and just now feeling human again.

Just to put my .02 cents in, I own an 06 X-1 and love it. The reason the X-1 starts off with a smaller price tag is because most of the bling has been removed as standard features. IE: Perfect Pass, Swivel Board Racks, Stereo, Single Axle Trailer without pivioting tounge, etc.....That being said you can add all the BLING you want Ala Carte!!!

The X-1 IS NOT A CHEAPER BUILT BOAT. It comes down the same assembly line as all other MasterCrafts and has the same quality gelcoat, fiberglass, and interior as all other MasterCrafts.

Nothing man made is going to be flawless. This problem is very rare and could have happened to any model of MasterCraft. I have owned 3 MasterCraft's and would not hesitate to buy another one tomorrow. I for one believe in their QUALTY & WORKMANSHIP! I also believe they will remedy and satisify this customer's problem.

Now I ask all of you that have responded to this thread. Has anyone ever purchased a new car and NOT had to take it back to the dealership for warranty repairs?

JimN
10-06-2006, 08:02 PM
The X1 is the 2006 version of the Sporstar, which was based on the pre-1998 Prostar hull but had all of the accessories offered as options. That was a really nice boat for teh price and when the toys were added, it was close to the price of a Prostar but it was still less because they had amortized the molds and development. I'm not sure they offered the LT-1 on it but the 5.0L and 5.7L TBI were available.

Jim@BAWS
10-06-2006, 08:11 PM
Hi guys,

I'm not trying to burst any bubbles here, but I had a LONG conversation with my former MC dealer about 5 weeks ago. He's out at the end of '06. He said he wouldn't even carry the X-1's this year b/c, in his opinion, they were so poorly made. He carried many of the other models this year.

I hope MC makes this right for you!!!!:mad:

~beatle78

THAT IS PURE BS...no wonder he is not a dealer
I have an X-1 in my driveway. Build to ALL the exact standards
What do you think the X-2 was. the 205V the old X-star.

The 2007 has more bling than 2006...give me a break !
What do you think the employees do at the factory.
"Oh NO her comes and X-1...lets not put in as much glass
Lets out the seats in backwards"

Jim@BAWS

erkoehler
10-06-2006, 08:31 PM
I'm with Jim on this one....and we'll be stocking over 15 X-1's for 2007. We haven't had any issues, and I can't see any in the future...

JimN
10-06-2006, 09:40 PM
That soon-to-be-former dealer sounds like sour grapes. I wonder what his history in the marine industry is.

stevo137
10-06-2006, 10:05 PM
Can you guys just make the customer happy and move on???
Obviously there are some issues, nothing that I have not seen MC resolve in the past.
Get that damn boat back to MC and make it right! End of story.

rodltg2
10-06-2006, 11:58 PM
Now I ask all of you that have responded to this thread. Has anyone ever purchased a new car and NOT had to take it back to the dealership for warranty repairs?


actually i have, although i have only owned 2 brand new cars. my 99expedition never anything wrong, and now my dodge has been flawless so far... sounds like lexus is awesome with their customer service

Farmer Ted
10-07-2006, 12:07 AM
maybe he got a monday boat

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-07-2006, 10:02 AM
What do you think the employees do at the factory.
"Oh NO her comes and X-1...lets not put in as much glass
Lets out the seats in backwards":uglyhamme :uglyhamme ROFLMALO!!! :uglyhamme Thats awesome JIM!!:toast:

bigmac
10-07-2006, 10:11 AM
Now I ask all of you that have responded to this thread. Has anyone ever purchased a new car and NOT had to take it back to the dealership for warranty repairs?


Interesting point. However, my truck cost about $20,000 less than my boat and it came with a 3 year bumper-to-bumper warranty, compared to the 1 year warranty I got on my boat. Additionally, the warranty terms on my vehicles specifically provide for a loaner while they're out of service.

Again, I think the more important issue is not that manufacturer's defects occur, it's how they're resolved.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-07-2006, 10:30 AM
Interesting point. However, my truck cost about $20,000 less than my boat and it came with a 3 year bumper-to-bumper warranty, compared to the 1 year warranty I got on my boat. Additionally, the warranty terms on my vehicles specifically provide for a loaner while they're out of service.

Again, I think the more important issue is not that manufacturer's defects occur, it's how they're resolved.
TRU DAT! I have gone thru this with music equipment. Bottom line, if its man made, it can break down. But YES, its how the company handles the issue that counts. I had several issues with Mesa Boogie guitar amps, but the company was ACES at taking care of me. Extremely good customer service and I am a customer for life. Anything can break, but its how it gets fixed is the real deal. I have heard horror stories about other guitar amp companies for poor customer service, so that just reinforces my faith in Mesa Boogie.

JimN
10-07-2006, 10:39 AM
One thing to consider is that the more complicated something is, the more likely it is to have a problem and the more difficult it can be to repair. This is a major reason manufacturers need qualified servicers in the field. OTOH, a delam issue like this should be done at the factory, IMO, so they can determine why it happened. Having someone else repair it and report won't be the same as the factory people seeing it for themselves.

UMP- you talking about people with Cyber amps? The design is too complicated to go on the road, if you ask me. My amp is 48 years old and until the speaker wires shorted and a carbon trace formed on a tube socket, nothing had been replaced, other than when I recapped it.

michael freeman
10-07-2006, 11:56 AM
Interesting point. However, my truck cost about $20,000 less than my boat and it came with a 3 year bumper-to-bumper warranty, compared to the 1 year warranty I got on my boat. Additionally, the warranty terms on my vehicles specifically provide for a loaner while they're out of service.

Again, I think the more important issue is not that manufacturer's defects occur, it's how they're resolved.

Yep, when you pay $70k for a boat, customers expect to be treated better then the average bear.

BTW, 2000 GMC 4x4 truck, $26k after discounts, no problems save for one dead fuel pump last year because I burned it up trying to start it with no gas. So yes $45k less, more complex and less problems after putting 100k+ miles on it.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
10-07-2006, 11:56 AM
One thing to consider is that the more complicated something is, the more likely it is to have a problem and the more difficult it can be to repair. This is a major reason manufacturers need qualified servicers in the field. OTOH, a delam issue like this should be done at the factory, IMO, so they can determine why it happened. Having someone else repair it and report won't be the same as the factory people seeing it for themselves.

UMP- you talking about people with Cyber amps? The design is too complicated to go on the road, if you ask me. My amp is 48 years old and until the speaker wires shorted and a carbon trace formed on a tube socket, nothing had been replaced, other than when I recapped it.
JIM actually I have heard horror stories about Marshall's reliability and service. Now Knock on wood, I have never had problems with my Marshall EL34 50/50 power amp. The new cyber amps scare me, I have had friends have lots of trouble with them. I just hear bad things aobut hteir customer service, so I stay with Mesa Boogie. Dayum good tube amps, and excellent customer service. :)

trickskier
10-09-2006, 02:07 PM
Interesting point. However, my truck cost about $20,000 less than my boat and it came with a 3 year bumper-to-bumper warranty, compared to the 1 year warranty I got on my boat. Additionally, the warranty terms on my vehicles specifically provide for a loaner while they're out of service.

Again, I think the more important issue is not that manufacturer's defects occur, it's how they're resolved.

The 2 points I wanted to make is that the X-1 is by no means an inferior MasterCraft. It is made with the same quality materials as an X-Star or any other MasterCraft. So please stop bashing the X-1.

Secondly, knowing MasterCraft they will take care of this very rare situation.

east tx skier
10-09-2006, 02:47 PM
JIM actually I have heard horror stories about Marshall's reliability and service. Now Knock on wood, I have never had problems with my Marshall EL34 50/50 power amp. The new cyber amps scare me, I have had friends have lots of trouble with them. I just hear bad things aobut hteir customer service, so I stay with Mesa Boogie. Dayum good tube amps, and excellent customer service. :)

Threadjack on.

Mesas are workhorses. Of course, my 35 year old Fender hasn't missed a day of work yet either. But didn't the guys who started Mesa and Rivera respectively used to be old Fender builders? Anyway, can't say enough good about those old tube amps. Little else sounds so nice.

Not that I'd kick a "Matchless" out of bed for eating cookies you understand.

Threadjack off.

/hee hee, you said ...

RexDog1
10-09-2006, 02:57 PM
Threadjack on.



east tx skier (http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/member.php?u=11)
Asst to Traveling Sec.



Asst To Traveling Sec. Are you George Louis Costanza ???

JimN
10-09-2006, 03:08 PM
Doug-"Not that I'd kick a "Matchless" out of bed for eating cookies you understand."

Yes you would, there's more room on the floor.

Are they back in business? Being Class A, they really do sound nice, better than a Vox AC-series amp, IMO. Brad Paisley and the Hellecasters were using them, too.

Did you see my avatar yet?

east tx skier
10-09-2006, 03:42 PM
I don't think so. Billy Cassis of Soul Hat used to have Eric Johnson's old Matchless 4x10 and I thought it was just about the coolest sounding/looking thing I'd seen at that time.

Nice!!! Is that the real deal behind that pretty LP or is that a reissue Bassman? I had an early 70s Bassman Ten and recall how amazing it sounded even with the CBS refinements.

I sold my 73 Vibrolux Reverb to help finance Perfect pass. Now, I've got the 72 Deluxe Reverb, an early 70s Bandmaster Head, and a 73 Bassman 100 head (with groove tubes). The heads adorn either a 4x12 cabinet of pre Fender buyout Sunns or a pair of Homemade 2x12 cabinets sporting Jensen 66s.

Nifty little fender trick for some nice overdrive. Plug the guitar into the "#1 input on the right side". Run a line out of the #2 Input on that same side to the #1 input on the left side of the amp. Use all of the knobs to blend your sound. Works especially well on the later amps that had a master volume.

JimN
10-09-2006, 04:11 PM
Cabinet and speakers didn't come with the chassis when I bought it in '79 or '80, so yeah, it's the real deal. Judging from the bent chassis, I would say that it probably fell off of a stage or out of a truck. I'd like to "age" it soon, haven't gotten the real scoop if they're now using shellac, lacquer or poly. I know all three could be used but I suspect lacquer was the original since dumping a beer or other mixed drink would mess up the shellac. It would be easier to repair if they used lacquer since poly is hard to re-coat.

I mentioned in the "other" guitar thread that Tom Wheeler (former editor of Guitar Player) is doing a Fender Amp book and Greg Koch played on the tracks for the old models, with voice-overs. They didn't have a Bassman in La Cross when he was there so he came back and used mine. I shot the photos after he recorded the last tracks. The amp to the left is a Super Twin and the one to the right is a Twin. The LP is a Gibson Custom Shop "'59 relic" and the Tele to the right is a Fender "'53 Relic" but the Strat to the left is a real '63. The tracks for each amp used all three guitars and used no effects. Just the guitars and the amps set on 5 for the cleaner sounds and WOT for the distorted ones. The book should be out in late November, IIRC, and comes with a double CD.

I'll attach some of the other shots later(they're in my laptop).

The jumper trick only gets you overdrive if there is a master but it can cause more breakup earlier, since both channels have their own preamp tubes. Not total grunge but it does nasty it up a bit.

I have a pair of '60s Jensen 12s, an Altec 417B and a Celestion Classic 50 12" speaker, in addition to the 4 Jensens that are in the Bassman cabinet.

Have you seen anything about the Kendrick New Joy Zee amp? They have samples from it on their website. It has the actual circuits for Twin, Bassman, Marshall and Vox Ac amps on it and it's switchable. I played the tracks through my desktop speakers and through my stereo (since I have line out/in wired to it). Sounded real.

east tx skier
10-09-2006, 04:23 PM
Nope. I'm not as in touch with the new guitar stuff as I used to be. Sounds like you have quite a collection there though.

For some interesting gear and mods, check out www.analogman.com

Jorski
10-09-2006, 04:55 PM
Has anyone ever purchased a new car and NOT had to take it back to the dealership for warranty repairs?

Yup...Three Toyota 4Runners in a row !

JimN
10-09-2006, 04:55 PM
The only thing that was mine is the Bassman. The others are original Black Face Fenders from other people and really sound great.

After you mentioned Analogman before, I looked at his site and e-mailed a few questions. I also went on ebay and bought some stuff- another Boss SD-1, a Crybaby Wah, an Alesis Quadraverb GT and a MicroVerb III. I bought the Micro III because the transformer for my Micro II died and Guitar Center said the replacement was $80 retail (bought an AC adaptor at a surplus store for $3.95). I got the Quad GT cheap enough that I thought I would try it for the delays, effect stacking/presets and the Leslie sound. It's OK but I think I'll stick with the other boxes and talk to a friend who makes effects (RPG Electronics).