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H20skeefreek
09-17-2006, 09:41 PM
losing power....sorry.

I had previously posted this problem under electrical, but now I don't believe it to be electrical..Please help me if you can.

Boat will die out part way down the course, usually doesn't die completely just looses power, but if I don't back off of the throttle, it'll die. If it does die, it's hard to start, but will restart. It only does it when the boat is pretty warm, ran up and down the course and it happened on the 4th lap today. I don't even throttle up 'til the boat reaches 150*.

It only does this when under load. If the boat is out of gear, I can run all the way up to 4k rpm without getting it to happen.

I'm actually getting some smoke out of the valve covers (pcv valve location and oil fill w/ hose running to flame arrester), more than I've ever noticed, what could this be? I overfilled the oil a little bit the last time I changed the oil, and ran if a few times, but when I noticed it, I drained the extra off. When I changed the spark plugs, they were slightly fouled, and the plugs on the starboard side were actually wet with oil.

Here's what I've checked and know it's not:

Alternator, putting out plenty of juice
Battery, awesome
checked wiring at dash, good electrical connections, added buss bars for 12v+ and ground eliminating all daisy chaining
distributor cap, replaced
coil, replaced
spark plugs, replaced
timing checked, set at 10*btc (which now I'm not sure if that's right, but it ran the same both still)
pulled fuel pickup to check, clean as a whistle
check anti-siphon valve at same time, clean as a whistle
checked fuel/h2o separator, NO water
blew threw vent and got a full gust of air at fuel fill, so vent is clear.
The carb was rebuilt at the beginning of last season.

It's killing me not being able to ski. Please help me.

JimN
09-17-2006, 10:40 PM
Is there a way for you to connect a timing light and check it when the problem shows up? You don't need the motor box open, you just need to see if you have spark. If yo always have spark, move on to the fuel line from the tank to the motor. You have a mechanical pump and I wouldn't be surprised if the diaphragm is leaking. Check your oil and make sure it doesn't have gas in it. If you can temporarily replace the fuel line form the pump to the carb with clear vinyl hose, do that and make sure it's full of gas, not bubbles. As soon as you verify that you have good fuel pressure to the carb, put the regular fuel line back on.

H20skeefreek
09-17-2006, 10:57 PM
Well, I just brought the boat home from the lake, and I don't have a way to put it under load and duplicate the situation at home.

I have a solid metal fuel line from the pump to the carb. I'll see if I can get some hose barbs to hook up to those fittings, any idea the thread size on the 4160 carb?

Oh, and oil seems to be gas free. If it is the fuel pump, should there be gas in the clear gas overflow line?

H20skeefreek
09-18-2006, 09:18 AM
What do you think about the smoke at the valve covers? how much if any should there be? I've never noticed it before.

JimN
09-18-2006, 09:23 AM
What color is the smoke and how dense is it? If it's from exhaust gasses, it's blow-by, which means that the rings are worn/cracked on at least one cylinder or maybe a cylinder wall is grooved. Either way, it's repairable. Oil can get to the plugs because of this, too. Do yo have blue smoke coming from the exhaust, too? Does it run rough?

Gas may be in that line but if there's none in the oil, I don't think I would suspect the pump. Have you done a compression test?

H20skeefreek
09-18-2006, 09:31 AM
planning on doing one today. I was going to do one yesterday, but didn't b/c the engine has to be warm and couldn't find my fake-a-lake. I'm going to try it today. I have a small amount of smoke, it's blueish white (i'd say more white like normal steam from boat exhuast). It's not really running rough except when it dies. I'm not really sure how to qauntify the density of the smoke.

I guess it's looking like it's time for a rebuild?

JimN
09-18-2006, 09:37 AM
If the smoke is bluish, it's oil.

Has it overheated more than a couple of times? They really don't like that and it's possible that the cylinder is scored because of it.

Hopefully, it's not that bad but it would be repairable. It's possible to have a bad head gasket with these symptoms, too.

H20skeefreek
09-18-2006, 09:44 AM
It's only overheated once in the 3 years that I've owned it, previous owner said it never did.

I guess If I remove the heads I'll be able to tell what the problem is? If I don't see any scoring, what do I do? If I do, I have the cylinders bored out? If so, should I just go with a larger piston or have the block re-sleeved? At this point should I just take it to a professional?

Does all of this make since with the symptoms I'm having?

JimN
09-18-2006, 11:59 AM
Boring is best, honing is OK if it's really minor. Oversized rings first, then pistons but let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Do all of the tests that can be done with it still intact.

First. it could be steam coming out of the valve cover. This is normal, especially soon after startup.

Second, if whatever is on the spark plug(s) is gas/carbon, it could be a little rich. What do they look like after running at mid-throttle? Check this, and run it at higher RPM for a minute if you can, then check them again. If they're tan, you're OK. If they're white, it's too lean, if they're dark, it's too rich.

How old are the points, or have you changed to electronic ignition? If it's points, re-check the gap/dwell. Also, verify the timing.

H20skeefreek
09-18-2006, 12:46 PM
It could be steam, but there is a pretty good amount of it, and there is oil on the PCV valve. I think it is just normal colored smoke though, looking at it, i don't think there is much if any blue tint to it.

I'll check the plugs right now. What would you consider mid-throttle 2000rpm, 3000rmp high? I'll have to do it in the driveway, but i'm running a hose and bucket combination, not the fake-a-lake, so I can get plenty of water to it.

The boat has been changed to electronic ignition. I set the timing to 10*btc from about 6/7, but then reading in the pcm manual, they say 6/7. I have always been told 10btc.

H20skeefreek
09-18-2006, 01:40 PM
Jim, how do you cut off fuel with a mechanical fuel pump for the compression test???remove the pump?

Jesus_Freak
09-18-2006, 01:57 PM
In my compression tests, I have disconnected the pump discharge tubing and run it into a bottle. I wouldnt remove the pump, or you have to mess with re-sealing the connection.

H20skeefreek
09-18-2006, 02:06 PM
well, here are the results...drum roll please.

starboard going from bow to stern 120, 90,90,120

port going from bow to stern 120,119,120,120

blown head gasket?

engine had cooled down some so overall numbers should have been higher, but it took me a while to fool with the fuel.

Bruce Carr
09-18-2006, 02:36 PM
With the exception of the two 90 psi values, the compression looks quite good. It sure seems that you may have a head gasket leak between the two supect adjacent cylinders. The good news is that changing out a head gasket is not too difficult. Pull the intake and the suspect head and if it is indeed the gasket, the leak path will be pretty obvious. A new head gasket (and intake manifold gasket) will probably make it good as new.

Hunterb
09-18-2006, 02:50 PM
I would say with those compression numbers that you are dealing with a tired motor. There may indeed be a blown gasket, but all the numbers are low. You should be seeing about 135-150 in all cylinders. I think if I had numbers like that I would plan on rings, bearings and a valve job at the least and possibly pistons as well. You could do a leakdown test to see where your compression is going. Did you do a vacuum test when it was running?

I'm sure Jimn will have a suggestion and he knows a lot more about these motors than I do so I'd wait for his input.

Good luck with it.

Bruce

JimN
09-18-2006, 03:35 PM
10 won't affect things that much but IIRC, the PCM usually showed 6 BTDC. Ideally, the boat would be under load to check the plugs. I know it's a PITA but that's real world testing, not in the driveway.

Get a mustard bottle and put some gas in it, then if the problem shows up and you can have another person driving, spray a little gas into the flame arrestor with the nozzle right on the screen. If it runs better immediately, you'll know it's a fuel starvation issue. If it bogs worse, it's too rich. Just having the carb rebuilt fairly recently doesn't mean that it couldn't be a carb problem.

You'll always have some oil on the PCV valve- the hot fumes will collect on the coolest place they are going past.

The two cylinders with 90 are the ones I would be concerned with. Could be a gasket going since they appear to be adjacent. An overheat can cause this. If there's any gasket sealant visible at the head/block mating surfaces, whoever owned it before you took it apart and used sealant where they shouldn't have. An upper gasket set, a few hours and maybe a trip to a machine shop, your motor should be good as new if this is the cause of the trouble.

JimN
09-18-2006, 03:37 PM
I agree with the vacuum test- that is a good indication of the general health of a motor. The 120 is on the low side but is basically consistent so I doubt that there is anything really horrendous going on.

H20- I don't know your area but there are speed and machine shops all over that will do this kind of work for a reasonable charge. If the block is coming out, honing is recommended and if there are any scored cylinders, a light rebore will fix it unless you want more power anyway, and then .030 over and a new set of rings will definitely help. If you have any warpage to the heads (which is common on a 21 year old motor), they can be milled flat. If they remove more than .007", the compression will start to increase and you'll either need to use higher octane gas or adjust the timing. If you have always wanted a rocket, talk to Doug about his motor mods. BRIEOD also replaced his intake manifold recently.

H20skeefreek
09-18-2006, 09:56 PM
If I have the head milled, I should do both sides correct? that way I have the same compression ratio on both sides? Same with the boring right? If it needs it, I'd rather just hone it, It's got plenty of power, don't need it to eat any more gas.

I'll try the gas in a bottle, you say I should spray it into the flame arrestor, not directly into the carb?

JimN
09-18-2006, 10:23 PM
First, the gas- you don't want to run with no flame arrestor. Also, any time you're working with gas, make sure there's a fire extinguisher nearby. Put the nozzle right on the mesh of the arrestor, you don't want any spraying outside of it and you don't need to use much, just enough to see if it'll run better. How clean is the arrestor? Can you see light through it easily?

Yes, both sides. If you can get away with just honing, great. If they're scored badly, it's best to bore them out. It won't use more gas than right now and boring keeps the cylinder walls straight, unlike honing. A motor with low compression and performance issues wastes a lot more gas than one that has been bored out slightly oversized.

H20skeefreek
09-18-2006, 10:56 PM
The arrestor is pretty clean, mine seems to have more layers of material than i've ever seen, so you can't really see through it b/c of all the mesh.

JimN
09-18-2006, 11:29 PM
Can you borrow a different arrestor from someone with the same carb, or something really close to yours? If you can't see through it, is there a way to find out how well air flows through it? I have seen some with extremely fine mesh but most were coarser.

H20skeefreek
09-19-2006, 08:31 AM
I'm sure it flow just fine, it's never been a problem before. Everyone else I know with a ski boat has got a fuel injected motor with a K&N, so that's not really an option.

NeilM
09-19-2006, 11:10 AM
First, the gas- you don't want to run with no flame arrestor.

JimN, I'm curious as to why. With the engine uncovered (you're working on it) it seems to me there's no risk of explosion. I'd be more worried about gas dripping on the engine from trying to squirt it into the arrestor than I would be about dribbling a bit down the carb... As long as I'm not looking straight down the carb (risk of backfire), I'd feel safer with the arrestor off... What am I missing?

JimN
09-19-2006, 11:49 AM
Because when you're running at anything over idle, the possibility of backfiring is greater and if you have a stream of gas, squirting it when backfiring occurs is a bad thing. I had an LTR backfire while I was spraying fogging oil into the throttle body after telling someone to pull the lanyard (which he didn't do) and he had told me it was out of gas. Fortunately, I could throw the flaming rag onto the parking lot and there was no damage, other than my temporary loss of arm hair. This happened when he opened the throttle quickly.

I never said it was the safest thing to do but it's a good way to find out if you have a fuel problem. The plastic mustard bottle will pull air back in when you release it and the gas will go with it as long as the nozzle is pointing slightly upward when you release it. You shouldn't have any dripping. If you spray gas into an open carb when it backfires, the liquid gas sprays outward, burning or not. I have seen it happen both ways. Better to see it from a distance.

NeilM
09-20-2006, 03:52 PM
I have seen it happen both ways. Better to see it from a distance.

Ahh.. the good old voice of experience and burnt arm hairs.. :D

Had a similar experience with an old dodge van and ether starting fluid in minus 40 weather -- singed my eyebrows...the backfire scared me so much that i banged the back of my noggin on the hood... then slipped off the front bumper and rearranged the family jewels on my toolbox...:mad: my buddy couldn't stop laughing...:mad:

Sorry for the threadjack...

H2O - leave the arrestor on... let us know how you make out..

tdaines@hotmail.com
09-22-2006, 12:07 AM
Hey, I know I'm late to the discussion - but my best friend had something quite similar with his boat - also a classic S&S...

He had the exact same compression test results, ironically the same two were running low! Anyway, the engine specs show that you should be 135+ on all cylinders, but my S&S with 160 hours and original parts had 150+ on all 8...

The problem appeared to be worn valve guides, so he tried to do an overhaul on the top end, which provided meager improvements on all 8 cylinders, but not bringing the two low cylinders up to even 100...

Anyway, long story short - he took the engine out himself, sent it down to a good machine shop and had the thing completely rebuilt, 3 angle valve job, new parts all around. He spent $1600 total, and dedicated a week's worth of nights to painting and detailing the rebuilt engine - it looks awesome. He then put a new 4150 carb on, all new plugs/wires/distributor. In total, he spend around $2200 (not counting the friendship dues he now owes me for my help), and he hasn't regretted it for a second.

No need for a new boat - he now has the best ski wake of all time, and a boat that runs like new!

Good luck with it - I hope you get it going soon.

T

H20skeefreek
10-02-2006, 09:23 AM
Jim,

It looks like I'll get a chance to work on her today. I'm going to check the fuel pump today. You had mentioned running a clear hose from the pump to the carb to look for bubbles. Even though my problem is happening at higher RPM's would the bubbles show up in the driveway or only at the higher "problem" rpms.

I'm going to pull the heads probably later this week, just waiting for all of the gaskets to come in.

H20skeefreek
10-03-2006, 10:58 PM
I was just reading in the PCM repair manual that a compression reading is considered normal if the lowest reading is within 75% of the highest. 90psi is within 75% of 120psi. What do you think? Also, I just read that the throttle should be in the Wide Open position during a compression test, but I did not know this, and didn't do it, could that lead to lower overall numbers?

I still haven't had a chance to check the fuel pump as prescribed, but I'm wondering if I shouldn't go down the head gasket road yet. If the low compression was the reason for the loss of power, wouldn't it be constant rather than intermitant?

Any other ideas for the cause of the problem? I gotta get this figured out so I can do some more skiing.

JimN
10-03-2006, 11:25 PM
Part of the reason the compression test should be done with the throttle open is so gas won't be drawn into the cylinder and you can get a truer reading. It's a good idea to do it cold and at normal operating temperature, all plugs out and throttle open.

H20skeefreek
10-03-2006, 11:30 PM
so doing it without the throttle open would cause it to read hi or low?

and what do you think about the 90 being within 75% of 120?

do you think that if the compression was the reason for the loss of power it would be constant or intermittent?

H20skeefreek
10-04-2006, 09:02 PM
Ttt>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

JimN
10-04-2006, 11:52 PM
To be honest, I think 120 is low. 90 is really low. I would retest with no spark plugs in after warming it up and the throttle open. Most of the good motors I tested were around 150 on compression.

H20skeefreek
10-05-2006, 08:49 AM
Ok, I'll retest the compression, and if it is low, change the head gaskets and inspect the heads (not that I really know what I'm looking at) including the valves etc...

What I need to know though.... do you think that if the compression was the reason for the loss of power it would be constant or intermittent? Granted, if I have low compression, this needs to be fixed, but is it the source of my intermittant power loss (the reason this whole thing started)? I can't imagine that it is, b/c if it was, the cause of the power loss, i'd think that it would be constant. What do you guys think?

I'm going to do the work to the engine to hopefully refresh it, but I'm afraid that I'm going to have the same problem after $2,000 in work.

H20skeefreek
10-14-2006, 12:06 AM
Ok, it seems that the low compression was due to a crack in the O-ring on the compression tester, no low compression at all. I changed the fuel pump, and it seems to have taken care of the power loss, BUT, I know have a pesky light back fire when at speed. WHY????? this is driving me nuts.

JimN
10-14-2006, 01:01 AM
Do you still have the points ignition system? I would bet that the centrifugal advance weights are either frozen, the spring(s) are messed up or the distributor shaft bushing is worn. Put a timing light on it and look at the stability of the timing mark. If it's steady at all rpm, the bushing should be OK, if the advance doesn't increase much when you go close to WOT, the weghts aren't able to move and that should be addressed.

Good to hear that the compression is good- saved a lot of money and work.

Jesus_Freak
10-14-2006, 04:50 AM
Even if the weights are stuck or erratic, isnt the base timing enough to keep the firiing sequence ahead of the previous cycle's exhaust stroke? Jim, tell me more.

What "at speed" range are you referring to? Does it diminish after at certain speed?

Ditto on the saving a lot of money and work. I would add blood, back pain, and tears if you do it yourself.

H20skeefreek
10-14-2006, 11:33 AM
Jim, points are long gone. While I was going through everything I was checking all of my gaps etc. One of the things I check was the gap on the EI (space from the gear in the distributor to the EI) It was basically touching the gear when I checked it and my information said to gap it to .010. I did and then the boat wouldn't fire (this was a gap tool that I'd never used before, but I think I used it correctly) so to get it to fire, I moved it back to where I thought it was before (didn't have the tool with me) if this gap is too small, would it cause a backfire? It doesn't seem like it to me.

I visually inspected the advance wieghts and springs and they move with no problem (one spring is smaller than the other, is that normal?)
Also, If you remember from early in the mission, I had incorrectly set the timing to 10*btc, but I wouldn't think that would cause a backfire (rather detonation) I'm going to reset that to 6/7*btc

on a side note: I do still have 1 cylinder with slightly lower compression that I am concerned about, and when it get's a little colder, I may go ahead and have the engine gone through, or go through it myself.

Jesus Freak,

I'm not sure on the speed, on plane but not fast enough for PP to engage, all the way up to 40. I'm not sure the lowest speed I can go to not have it happen. once it started doing it, I put her on the trailer b/c I realy don't want to have to rebuild the carb. I'm hoping that since the backfires are light I don't have to replace the power valve, but I know I probably will. They were so light that at first I didn't realize they were backfires, I thought the strut bearing was going out. with the motor box on, it sounded like a small dog barking. I thought I may have accidently closed my neighbors annoying little mange covered dog in the motor box.

JimN
10-14-2006, 12:33 PM
Are your plug wires good ones? How about the cap/rotor? I have seen new wires with crssfire and it could be a factor.

If one cylinder isn't burning all of its gas, the unburned portion will go into the exhaust and it could be igniting there. Have you looked at your spark plugs after this happened? Look for one that's black and the rest "straw" colored.

H20skeefreek
10-14-2006, 03:11 PM
The plug wires are super thick, super high quality, marine specific wires that are in great condition. Cap is brand new, rotor is perfect. I haven't checked the plugs since this instance, but I've never seen a "straw" colored plug on this boat.

What do you think about the EI gap thing? could that be the cause of it? I measured the feeler gauge I was using and I infact did use it wrong, and the gap was MUCH greater that it should have been. I then basically closed the gap. Could not enough gap cause a backfire?

The timing thing couldn't really be it could it (10* btdc rather than 7*btdc)?

TMCNo1
10-14-2006, 04:00 PM
The plug wires are super thick, super high quality, marine specific wires that are in great condition. Cap is brand new, rotor is perfect. I haven't checked the plugs since this instance, but I've never seen a "straw" colored plug on this boat.

What do you think about the EI gap thing? could that be the cause of it? I measured the feeler gauge I was using and I infact did use it wrong, and the gap was MUCH greater that it should have been. I then basically closed the gap. Could not enough gap cause a backfire?

The timing thing couldn't really be it could it (10* btdc rather than 7*btdc)?


Using the plastic gap gauge provided [not metal feeler gauge], adjust the air gap between one of the trigger wheel fingers and the face of the sensor to .010". Tighten the sensor retaining screw to 3 to 5 inch/pounds of torque. Per Prestolite, I hope this helps!

JimN
10-14-2006, 04:38 PM
"Tighten the sensor retaining screw to 3 to 5 inch/pounds of torque."

Always recheck the gap after tightening, too. I have never seen the gap stay where it was before tightening.

The gap needs to be where it is spec'd so the coil can saturate enough to induce a strong enough spark. If the gap is too large, the pickup won't accurately sense the trigger (signal would be too weak) and if it's too small, I guess there could be multiple spark events.

Re: the plug wires being "super thick"- take it out at night, run it hard and look at the motor in the dark. If you see sparks, you'll know where the problem is. Look at all plug wires and also at the coil, distributor base and cap.

H20skeefreek
10-15-2006, 10:20 AM
Using the plastic gap gauge provided [not metal feeler gauge], adjust the air gap between one of the trigger wheel fingers and the face of the sensor to .010". Tighten the sensor retaining screw to 3 to 5 inch/pounds of torque. Per Prestolite, I hope this helps!

I don't have the plastic feeler gauge, is there a problem using a metal one, if so....oops.

TMCNo1
10-15-2006, 10:30 AM
I don't have the plastic feeler gauge, is there a problem using a metal one, if so....oops.


Apparently so, but I really don't understand why, but I just copied that information from the Prestolite EI installation instructions.

TMCNo1
10-15-2006, 10:45 AM
As JimN said, check the wires for spark discharge. When I installed a new set of yellow AcCel SuperStock 8mm wires on my 351, the distributor ends had to be made up after being cut to length. I had a random misfire and found out that according to AcCel that the graphite core coating can contaminate the outside of the wires during cutting and the application of the wire ends and would spread spark to the outside of the boot and down the silicone outer coating to a discharge point. Cleaned the wires off with lacquer thinner as directed and the misfire stopped and that was 18 years ago.

H20skeefreek
10-15-2006, 10:48 AM
I don't have enough light to take out the boat after dark at my lake, and running it in the driveway, it doesn't happen.

TMCNo1
10-15-2006, 11:02 AM
If it is a spark plug wire problem, and you clean or replace the wires, try using some wire seperators to keep the wires apart and organized.

H20skeefreek
10-15-2006, 11:37 AM
Yeah, I was going to get some seperators today, and clean the wires and put them on, that should help me if it's crossfireing. The plugs look great, I just can't check them after dark. they are brand new, so I'm not replacing them if I don't have to.

H20skeefreek
10-16-2006, 06:08 PM
So, I had just set the timing recently. I set it at 10*btc by mistake, it should be at 7*btc. Well I went to check it today and holy crap, it wasn't even close! I mean I couldn't even see the scale on the balancer while this thing was firing, I jacked around with it, trying to get it to go into spec, but It just wouldn't, so I started snooping around to check other things. Had I installed the rotor backwards? no, not possible on this motor, did I install the EI backwards when I took it out to check the advance springs? No, once again, not possible.

Have any of you ever mistaken a 2 for a 1? I did! I had the number 1&2 plug wires reversed at the plugs, I'm suprised it still ran as well as it did.

Now it runs like a champ. I installed the wire seperators as TMCno1 suggested, and now the wires seem to be too close to the perfect pass and causing some noise in the system. I get wierd characters on the screen when I'm at speed. Someone suggested that I change the coil to distributor wire to one that has a noise suppressor, does this make since? And where do you get one that is lower noise than a standard wire?

JimN
10-16-2006, 07:17 PM
"Have any of you ever mistaken a 2 for a 1?"

Nope, you're the first.

I think everyone has miswired at least one motor. If you look at your firing order and think about where the two pistons are in relation to each other when they each fire, you'll see why it ran as well as it did. The 3 degrees of extra advance wouldn't hurt anything.

Your wires should be resistor type anyway. There are ways to get rid of RFI- start by making sure the PP ground is impecable when referenced to the battery -. If needed, you can get braided, tinned copper shielding (either tape or like the shield on coax) to put around the PP wire loom, then ground one end of that.

NeilM
10-17-2006, 01:08 AM
Have any of you ever mistaken a 2 for a 1? I did!

BTDT
(Been There, Done That:rolleyes: )

H20skeefreek
10-17-2006, 08:21 AM
the problem is that I used this for a one (/) and this for a two (2). then, when I read the two (2) I thought it was a (1) instead of looking for a (/). confusing isn't it?

vogelm1
07-25-2007, 12:56 AM
About two weeks ago, I noticed my boat just doesn't have the usual hole shot...seat of the pants feel, and it's taking slightly longer to get a skiier up. The boat only has 143 hours on it. Fresh gas in the tank, I clean the flame arrestor annually. However I didn't change the spark plugs this year (there's about 60 hours on the current set). I also change the fuel filter annually. Anything else basic I can check prior to taking it in for a look? I've heard some of the '05 boats needed re-flashing, but don't know if symptoms were worse than mine. Thoughts??

macattack
10-15-2010, 09:55 AM
About two weeks ago, I noticed my boat just doesn't have the usual hole shot...seat of the pants feel, and it's taking slightly longer to get a skiier up. The boat only has 143 hours on it. Fresh gas in the tank, I clean the flame arrestor annually. However I didn't change the spark plugs this year (there's about 60 hours on the current set). I also change the fuel filter annually. Anything else basic I can check prior to taking it in for a look? I've heard some of the '05 boats needed re-flashing, but don't know if symptoms were worse than mine. Thoughts??

Old thread, but just curious on the resolution on this one...tks, mac