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BuoyChaser
09-14-2006, 12:22 PM
AMSOIL, the leader in automotive synthetic lubrication, produced the world’s first API qualified synthetic motor oil in 1972. Trust the extensive experience of AMSOIL The First in Synthetics® to do the best job protecting your engine.

I've been told my a couple different mechanics that this oil is worth is, both for gasoline and diesel engines.

https://www.amsoil.com/dealerlocatorresults/

bigmac
09-14-2006, 01:00 PM
AMSOIL, the leader in automotive synthetic lubrication, produced the world’s first API qualified synthetic motor oil in 1972. Trust the extensive experience of AMSOIL The First in Synthetics® to do the best job protecting your engine.

I've been told my a couple different mechanics that this oil is worth is, both for gasoline and diesel engines.

https://www.amsoil.com/dealerlocatorresults/

Engine manufacturers are on the hook for HUGE expense in warranty claims, especially those with long warranties, like the current 100,000-milers. Even Indmar has a 3 year warranty on their extreme-duty engines (boat). So, you have to ask yourself, if synhetic oils are that good that they prevent premature engine wear, why don't those engine manufacturers SPECIFY synthetic oil in their engines? I mean, it's no skin off their nose - the consumer is paying for the oil changes, right?

There's a lot of hype and hucksterism in the oil business and has been for almost a century. Sounds like your mechanics are marketing victims.

To answer your question - yes, Amsoil is good oil, and no, it's not THAT good.

bret
09-14-2006, 01:25 PM
It is probably the best synthetic out there BUT for $7+ a quart and changing every 50 hrs or less for good maintenance people - is it worth it? I don't think so in a boat engine that runs much cooler than todays automotive engines. Just my .02

bigmac
09-14-2006, 02:05 PM
It is probably the best synthetic out there BUT for $7+ a quart and changing every 50 hrs or less for good maintenance people - is it worth it? I don't think so in a boat engine that runs much cooler than todays automotive engines. Just my .02

Boat engines are more extreme duty than car engines. They run at much higher RPMs, and the lack of a multi-speed transmission means that most of the time they are either being lugged, or overrevved. Even so, synthetic oil in those engines is pointless, since it provides no advantage over the oil that Indmar actually recommends for those engines.

bret
09-14-2006, 02:33 PM
Maybe so, but heat is an engines worst nightmare - the ability to control it and to remove it.

bigmac
09-14-2006, 04:10 PM
Maybe so, but heat is an engines worst nightmare - the ability to control it and to remove it.

Actually, an engine's worst nightmare is oil shear. Heat can contribute to that, but lugging/overrevving more so. These boat engines, despite their nominal 160 water temps, undergo much more abuse than an auto engine - the reason that Indmar recommends a much more durable oil (CH-4/SJ) than automobiles (SJ).

Hoosier Bob
09-14-2006, 09:37 PM
We have been here before and I will and have always used M1 or Val Synthetic. All seem to believe that there boats run cooler than automobiles so there is no need. Fact is the marine engines do run much harder than automobile engines. Fact is I cannot remember when the last time I had weeds caught up in my automobile cooling system. Fact is I do remember the last time my boat temp gauge shot through the roof. Fact is synthetic has a much higher tolerance to heat and when your ride gets hot it will last longer than dino. That is probably the only real benefit other than it typically moves through an engine much faster as it is much less influenced by temperature. Boats are too expensive and one impellor, hose, belt and or weed can light that engine up. I am not fixated with my gauges so the potential for me to miss a hot condition is possible. If this happens I feel I am better protected than the next guy. That would be my $19.95 Walmart 5 quart Mobile One special plus filter(As BigMac says get a great filter!).8p
PS. My engine loves it, it told me so!
PSS. No offense but I should be able to pee in the pan and get 3 years out of a $60,000 boat! I think they are fairly safe at three with any oil. Yes there are a ton of high end extremely expensive automobiles delivered with synthetic in the pan. If the engine is built to extreme tolerences you don't need to put fish oil in the pan to wear, yes wear (even worse, "BREAK") it in properly. I love these threads! Although BM knows a ton more than I on the subject it is still much fun!

Workin' 4 Toys
09-15-2006, 09:03 AM
BC,
After seeing most of the "facts" have been posted already, I'll chime in here and say I like their products.:D
The guys I talk to in the trucking business swear by the stuff.

bret
09-15-2006, 10:38 PM
These boat engines, despite their nominal 160 water temps, undergo much more abuse than an auto engine - (SJ).

Sorry, I totally disagree with the above statement, for abuse, take a ride in a road course car. My 944 turbo engine takes more abuse than my boat engine in two weekend events than my boat does all summer, hanging in in the 4k to 7200 rpm range for a full 45- 60 minutes at a time - that engine is 5 years old on an oil change every weeked, just good ole dino oil. The rpm limits of these engines is in the valvetrain, not the bearings on the rod or main bearings. Any decent oil changed on time should prevent any type of oil sheer in these boat engines at the operating temp. Temperature is the first course of breakdown then all else comes from that - thinning out, oil coking, sludge build up which gets all the detergents out of the oils then whats left with the exhuast gases that manage to get in the crankcase, start for form small amounts of acidic compounds. NO self centered, prideful MC owner should ever get to that point.

Not everybody drives WFO all over the lake or goes down idling through a set of house boats for 10 miles.

bigmac
09-15-2006, 10:48 PM
Sorry, I totally disagree with the above statement, for abuse, take a ride in a road course car.

Not everybody drives WFO all over the lake or goes down idling through a set of house boats for 10 miles.

Whereas everybody does drive a road course car every weeekend, hanging in in the 4k to 7200 rpm range for a full 45- 60 minutes at a time?;)

Don't misunderstand - I agree that conventional oil is sufficient, we just disagree on what constitutes major engine wear components in a conventionally driven boat compared to a conventionally driven car.

bigmac
09-15-2006, 10:58 PM
BC,
After seeing most of the "facts" have been posted already, I'll chime in here and say I like their products.:D
The guys I talk to in the trucking business swear by the stuff.

I like their products too. I use Amsoil in my garden tractors and lawn mowers.

edwinfuqua
09-15-2006, 11:13 PM
Maybe so, but heat is an engines worst nightmare - the ability to control it and to remove it.
I have been playing with my thermostat for a while. I put a 165 in an it would go to 165 then back to 120 and back and forth. I drilled 3 1/16" holes in the skirt of the thermostat and it was a little hotter on the cold side but still went back and forth. I opened the holes up to 1/8" and it ran a constant 120. So now I'm going to solder up two of the holes and see what happens.

After break-in I'm running M1 synthetic but considering going back to Valvoline non synthetic.

And on the comment about heat is the worst nightmare, I think hot then cold is worse on aluminum engines and pistons than running them hot. My new chev. motor in my wife's truck runs at 200 constantly. My engine builder said I should run my engine at about the same temp. Still working on that. Water temp will soon be another variable. Humid air going down the intake in another reason to change your oil often and the synthetic is too expensive for frequent changes.

Did you hear about Lucas has come out with motor oils for about everything. So far hard to find. And I always but about a 1/2 qt of lucas 'honey' in with an oil change.
Edwin

Workin' 4 Toys
09-18-2006, 08:34 AM
I like their products too. I use Amsoil in my garden tractors and lawn mowers.
In addition to the above, I use it in ALL my 2 stroke engines including the snowmobiles....;)

bigmac
09-18-2006, 01:20 PM
In addition to the above, I use it in ALL my 2 stroke engines including the snowmobiles....;)Each to their own...I sincerely doubt that you're causing them any harm by doing so.





;)

Workin' 4 Toys
09-18-2006, 05:35 PM
I was conducting an experiment of my own. I was running one sled with KLOTZ and the other 2 with AMSOIL, my experiment ran short when I decided to get rid of the one running Klotz. To no fault of the oil, mearly because it was a yamaha:o......
It left still in running condition, so using the Klotz didn't lead to catastrophic failure..;) I guess that means it was money well spent...:D

tdaines@hotmail.com
09-21-2006, 11:47 PM
Boat engines are more extreme duty than car engines. They run at much higher RPMs, and the lack of a multi-speed transmission means that most of the time they are either being lugged, or overrevved. Even so, synthetic oil in those engines is pointless, since it provides no advantage over the oil that Indmar actually recommends for those engines.
Hey - just a correction...Marine engines run at much LOWER RPMs than auto engine. They are, under quite a heavy load comparatively, however. A marine engine is loaded constantly while the boat is running - a Porsche you race at the race track is probably only loaded half the time, receiving a "break" every time you shift, or let off to brake into a corner, etc...

Here are a few helpful thoughts on oils:

1. Not all "synthetic" oils are created equal. Most are basic mineral oils with synthetic super-slippery additives. Surprised?
2. There is only one brand that you can buy at the local parts store that is a true "synthetic" - Mobil 1. $4/quart.
3. Synthetics DO have super-slippery properties, and they DO resist breaking down better than conventional oil. What NO oil can do is resist dirt, grime, and "solvents" that are created naturally by the combustion process that contaminate the oil in your engine!!! This is a function of your engine's condition, and the environmental conditions your engine is running in.
4. Synthetics have a tendency to find ways to leak, much more so than conventional oils - so if your engine is older, and has been using conventional, I'd stick with conventional, or you'll have a messy engine compartment.
5. You CAN run synthetic oils for longer periods of time, IF: a. you have high quality air & oil filters, and a very sound valvetrain in your engine (ie combustion contaminants are minimal).
6. AMSOIL - While it is definitely a great product, you have to understand the marketing strategy behind this company. This is similar to AMWAY (think there's any link given the naming similarity???). Have you hever bought a $15 bottle of Amway dishwasher detergent that was supposed to super-clean your dishes? In the end, is it worth it, considering you get clean dishes primarily based on how good your dishwasher is, not how good the detergent is. Don't believe me? Run a load with NO detergent sometime... AMSOIL is the same thing - it's expensive because there are multiple layers of people that make money every time you buy! Your oil life is a function of the tuning, wear, and conditions of the ENGINE, more so than the oil you put in it.

Finally - despite the higher loads on a marine engine - think about it from a mathematical standpoint: You put 60+- hours on a boat in a year. That equates to roughly 2700 miles (@ avg. 45mph). Conventional oil will do fine for you with that much use. Most guys change the oil once/year anyway - so why spend 5X the money? I personally wouldn't want to run oil that has sat in the block all winter, because it will have picked up a lot of moisture from the condensation, so if you're gonna change every year, go conventional. If you really truly want to run synthetic - go for MOBIL 1.

A few thoughts from a former AMSOIL dealer... :)

mika
09-25-2006, 02:10 PM
I have been running Amsoil for many years on everything from diesels to 2 stroke motors. The oil is amazing. I have noticed imporved performance and cooling running temps on small 4stroke applications. I enjoy extended drain intervals in my vehicles and superior protection. I have a friend who has a fleet of diesel deliver trucks that get started and stopped all day. He has run Amsoil since new along with their bypass filter setup and goes 100k between oil changs. Does regular oil analysis and has never had a break down of faliure due to oil. After break in all my vehicles run Amsoil everwhere. Have a few vehicles approching 200k and they dont drip or burn excessive oil (since every motor will consume small amounts of oil). At 15000 miles on the oil, one truck which has 198000+ miles on it consumed 1/2 a quart

yeah it is pricy but not to bad when you do the math. Since I always have 15w50 HD marine/diesel oil around not biggie for me.

bigmac
09-25-2006, 03:15 PM
I think public misperception of engine lubricants is a very interesting phenomenon. As a society, we tend to be easy marks for a variety of marketing campaigns. I've heard innumerable anecdotes of "friend of a friend" who's a fleet operator and never had an oil-related failure, but it doesn't really matter what kind of oil they use. Oil-related engine failures are extremely rare in any case.

6 balls
09-25-2006, 03:42 PM
i wouldnt worry about running amsoil because i have run it for over 100 hours at a time in my boat and also if you can proove that the oil was the cause of your motor failure amsoil will pay for the repair.

mika
09-25-2006, 03:45 PM
That is very true. I would think that oil related break down would be more common in drive line items such as transmissions.

But syn are nice for extended service. I know I was getting sick of changing my oil every 3 to 4 weeks which is why I moved to full syn. The cost and time savings more then pay for themselves in my case.

In my small engines (typically 2 stokes) the piston and bores are in remarkable condition after many hours or thousands of miles. Granted these are snowmobile engines but some of them have seen some serious abuse. But the life and performance of an engine has more to do with proper break-in and maintance then the actual oil used. I just know I have had very good results with Amsoil, I am sure Mobile, etc are all roughly equal in performance. I also know some powertrain engineers and race engine builders that have experimented with different oils and have has better results with Amsoil over other but I am sure the that is a two way street.

But the oil debate is a big one, lol But I am not a chemist nor an engineer so I can only speak from technical test and studies and personal experience.

Workin' 4 Toys
09-25-2006, 05:36 PM
BM...
Speaking of marketing.....

I saw a commercial once or twice.
They had a Dodge Viper if I recall, and ran it around a race track with dino. Poured in some "miracle lube", then drained ALL the lubrication from the engine. And continued to drive it around the track. With zero oil pressure.
I have NEVER bought this product, but it will forever remain in my mind I could drain all the oil out of my engine if I added just a quart of this "miracle lube".:rolleyes:
If I recall, this same super lube had commercials that they had an engine on the dyno running about 6000RPM and drained all the oil out and poured sand and dirt all over the engine including over the exposed rocker arms. Now THAT was marketing....;)

bigmac
09-25-2006, 07:25 PM
BM...
Speaking of marketing.....

I saw a commercial once or twice.
They had a Dodge Viper if I recall, and ran it around a race track with dino. Poured in some "miracle lube", then drained ALL the lubrication from the engine. And continued to drive it around the track. With zero oil pressure.
I have NEVER bought this product, but it will forever remain in my mind I could drain all the oil out of my engine if I added just a quart of this "miracle lube".:rolleyes:
If I recall, this same super lube had commercials that they had an engine on the dyno running about 6000RPM and drained all the oil out and poured sand and dirt all over the engine including over the exposed rocker arms. Now THAT was marketing....;)

I saw that. It's the kind of marketing that gets oil companies in trouble.

trickskier
09-25-2006, 07:37 PM
i wouldnt worry about running amsoil because i have run it for over 100 hours at a time in my boat and also if you can proove that the oil was the cause of your motor failure amsoil will pay for the repair.

I wouldn't be concerned about running Amsoil 100 hours. However, I would change the oil filter at 50 hours, add the necessary make-up oil & grease all fittings for proper PM Maintenance.

bigmac
09-25-2006, 07:54 PM
i wouldnt worry about running amsoil because i have run it for over 100 hours at a time in my boat and also if you can proove that the oil was the cause of your motor failure amsoil will pay for the repair.


Yes, marketing is the main thing that got Amsoil where it is today. Very clever.

Leroy
09-25-2006, 08:40 PM
I'm with you BigMac! I can tell an exteme story.

When I grew up my dad had a philosophy of never changing the oil So our 1967 Chevy 1/2 ton pickup with for 120k miles before giving up the battle (mostly due to a teenage driver) with NO oil changes, just adding when it needed it. We bought another engine for $150 put it in and it ran until we sold it ~1997. He felt he came out ahead because at 120k miles at 3k miles/change gives you 40 changes times $20 is $800 or $650 ahead.

I do change my boat every 50 hours and the cars 7500-10000 miles with whatever.

Workin' 4 Toys
09-25-2006, 09:11 PM
Leroy, I got nuttin' on that one.:eek:
This guy I know.......(no not me)...bought a new chevy car about two years or so ago. He took the car back to the dealer about a year later for its FIRST service with near 18,000 miles. Never opened the hood. And is still on that first change. Still has yet to open the hood, Ill have to check next time I see him what the mileage is at. And this is one of those guys that will lock up the motor eventually and blame chevy for building a bad car........
I am now wondering if it a leased vehicle.....:confused:

Workin' 4 Toys
09-25-2006, 09:17 PM
I saw that. It's the kind of marketing that gets oil companies in trouble.
Same company did this pressure test using a roller bearing to show "wear". I can't remember the display, but it had a spinning piece of hardened steel and they showed the wear into it when pressure was applied into a stationary piece. But no wear was seen when using the "super lube"....

Funny thing, someone around here at the time set up a similar experiment. And was able to get similar results using (I believe it was ) dishsoap.....

André
09-25-2006, 09:41 PM
Hey - just a correction...Marine engines run at much LOWER RPMs than auto engine.
Not sure i get this one...?:confused:

ted shred
09-25-2006, 11:21 PM
Engine manufacturers are on the hook for HUGE expense in warranty claims, especially those with long warranties, like the current 100,000-milers. Even Indmar has a 3 year warranty on their extreme-duty engines (boat). So, you have to ask yourself, if synhetic oils are that good that they prevent premature engine wear, why don't those engine manufacturers SPECIFY synthetic oil in their engines? I mean, it's no skin off their nose - the consumer is paying for the oil changes, right?

There's a lot of hype and hucksterism in the oil business and has been for almost a century. Sounds like your mechanics are marketing victims.

To answer your question - yes, Amsoil is good oil, and no, it's not THAT good.

yes it is that good, maybe better. I have used it in many trucks, boats cycles for many years.

bigmac
09-26-2006, 07:37 AM
The main point is that synthetics from major oil companies that have API service classifications should be fine to run in boat, cars, lawnmowers. There is no advantage of Amsoil or any other synthetic over conventional oil of the same service classification if oil change invervals are followed. Only the individual user can determine whether or not the peace of mind they get from using their favorite synthetic is worth the extra cost, but we're not talking huge dollars here, so I'd say..if using Amsoil or whatever makes you feel better..by all means use it if you think it's worth the money. I perceive no downside.

phecksel
09-26-2006, 11:26 AM
BM...
Speaking of marketing.....

I saw a commercial once or twice.
They had a Dodge Viper if I recall, and ran it around a race track with dino. Poured in some "miracle lube", then drained ALL the lubrication from the engine. And continued to drive it around the track. With zero oil pressure.
I have NEVER bought this product, but it will forever remain in my mind I could drain all the oil out of my engine if I added just a quart of this "miracle lube".:rolleyes:
If I recall, this same super lube had commercials that they had an engine on the dyno running about 6000RPM and drained all the oil out and poured sand and dirt all over the engine including over the exposed rocker arms. Now THAT was marketing....;)

similar demos have been previously exposed as fraudulent. Besides, it would be easy enough to "help" any engine go a short distance with a residual amount of dino oil. I used to know the owner of an oil testing service and one of his fav things was to expose the snake oil for what it really was. Regular oil changes with the specified dino oil will get you the exact same thing. Save your money

tdaines@hotmail.com
10-01-2006, 11:20 PM
Your best bet will always be to follow MC's service guidelines, use good quality oil - synthetic or otherwise, and use the extra cash on something useful, like taking your wife to dinner and asking her to forgive your waterskiing addiction.

My question is this...One thing AMSOIL doesn't ever say is that you COULDN'T get the same results (ie 100K between changes) with Mobil 1, or with any major brand of synthetic oil. Has anyone ever tried it?

BuoyChaser
10-21-2006, 04:57 PM
2005 Owner's Manual

Pennzoil 15W40 Marine Oil CG-SJ4 (API ratings of CF/SJ, CG-4, CH-4) - 6qts
- 20W40 mayb substituted
- below 20deg F SAE 10W30 (SJ/CD type)

Oil Filter TYpe - PF25 or PZ3

Transmission Fluid
- 1.7qt Dexron II, III or MECON (ZF Hurth in-lie 450D 1:1)
- Power Slot (ZF Hurth in-line Model 450A 1.5:1) 2.12qt 15W40 motor oil

Sta-Bil during off-season storage and for boater that consumes less than a full tank of fuel every 2wks

Engine Oil & Filter - change oil/filter after 1st 10hrs then every 50hrs or annually
Spark Plugs - replace every 300hrs or annually
PCV Valve - change every 300hrs or annually
Flame Arrestor - clean every 100hrs

MasterCraft MCX Parts
Engine Oil: 81871001
Oil Filter: 81501001
PCV Valve: 81506001
Spark Plugs: 81556119 AC (41-932)

PAGE 17-1 of Owner's Manual says the following under "Opearting Fuels and Lubricants - Lbricant - "See Operator's Manual for information regarding the use of synthetic oil"

Leroy
10-21-2006, 06:14 PM
Indmar FAQ says you can use synthetics with certain restrictions.

http://www.indmar.com/support/faq_detail.cfm?id=7

The main point is that synthetics from major oil companies that have API service classifications should be fine to run in boat, cars, lawnmowers. There is no advantage of Amsoil or any other synthetic over conventional oil of the same service classification if oil change invervals are followed. Only the individual user can determine whether or not the peace of mind they get from using their favorite synthetic is worth the extra cost, but we're not talking huge dollars here, so I'd say..if using Amsoil or whatever makes you feel better..by all means use it if you think it's worth the money. I perceive no downside.

BuoyChaser
10-21-2006, 09:00 PM
Indmar FAQ says you can use synthetics with certain restrictions.

http://www.indmar.com/support/faq_detail.cfm?id=7
it is like using 89 octane versus 87 octane...10cents extra for the manufacturers recommendation per gallon...so say for every hour on the water you use 5gal (throwing out a # here)...i put 90hrs this past season that's 450gal (OUCH) at $2.89/gal ($1300/yr) vs $2.79/gal ($1255) that's $50 a difference per year, why not go for the extra octane...

the same holds true for oil...

BuoyChaser
10-21-2006, 09:09 PM
Indmar FAQ says you can use synthetics with certain restrictions.

http://www.indmar.com/support/faq_detail.cfm?id=7

great stuff, but wonder how much the contract cost Indmar to make a deal with Pennzoil????
"QUESTION AND ANSWER
QUESTION: What type of oil should I use? Can I use synthetic oil?
ANSWER: Indmar recommends (and uses at our factory) Pennzoil Marine 15W40 Motor Oil. If Pennzoil 15W40 Marine Oil is not available in your area, we suggest using 20W40 or 20W50 oil meeting the API specification of SJ/CG4 or better. Synthetic oil that meets our requirement of 15W40and API rating of SJ/CJ4 is acceptable to use after 100 hours or operation with the recommended (not synthetic) oil. The use of synthetic oil does not alter the requirement for oil changes at 50-hour intervals. Older operator's manuals, and other publications that are not regularly updated will not be revised to show this latest engine oil recommendation. Current operator's manuals, and other service publications that receive regular updates will receive this revised recommendation the next time they are updated"

BuoyChaser
10-23-2006, 01:43 PM
here are AMSOIL recommendations based on the information I provided them from my 2005 owner's manual:

Engine oil, 10W40 Marine oil, WCF
Transmission, AMSOIL ATF
Oil filter EaO25
Change oil at 2 times OEM recommended drain interval, or annually, whichever comes first.

bigmac
10-23-2006, 02:06 PM
here are AMSOIL recommendations based on the information I provided them from my 2005 owner's manual:

Engine oil, 10W40 Marine oil, WCF
Transmission, AMSOIL ATF
Oil filter EaO25
Change oil at 2 times OEM recommended drain interval, or annually, whichever comes first.
Again, I'd point out that power train warranty claims cost auto mfgrs some really big dollars annually and will continue to do so especially now that 100,000 mile/5 year warranties are prevalent. It is absolutely no skin off their nose what brand or what type of oil you use - they have no vested interest in oil companies other than what lubricants keep those engines and transmissions healthy, and I can assure you they have teams of people researching that all the time.

So, if synthetic oil were that good...why wouldn't all the auto mfgrs world-wide universally recommend synthetic oil for their vehicles? For that matter, why wouldn't Indmar? Let me answer my own question - it's because they do have teams of researchers looking at engine-life factors and therefore don't have to rely on marketing for their choice of lubricants like the rest of us.

:twocents:

BuoyChaser
10-23-2006, 02:22 PM
Again, I'd point out that power train warranty claims cost auto mfgrs some really big dollars annually and will continue to do so especially now that 100,000 mile/5 year warranties are prevalent. It is absolutely no skin off their nose what brand or what type of oil you use - they have no vested interest in oil companies other than what lubricants keep those engines and transmissions healthy, and I can assure you they have teams of people researching that all the time.

So, if synthetic oil were that good...why wouldn't all the auto mfgrs world-wide universally recommend synthetic oil for their vehicles? For that matter, why wouldn't Indmar? Let me answer my own question - it's because they do have teams of researchers looking at engine-life factors and therefore don't have to rely on marketing for their choice of lubricants like the rest of us.

:twocents:
i agree with you, but what about those of us who want to go past the $100k mark...and how many times can those engine or transmission fail with regular oil???not very many...but how many of the valves get loose and worn over time causing decreased fuel mileage and loss in horsepower???their research doesn't care about that variable over time...

bigmac
10-23-2006, 02:32 PM
i agree with you, but what about those of us who want to go past the $100k mark...and how many times can those engine or transmission fail with regular oil???not very many...but how many of the valves get loose and worn over time causing decreased fuel mileage and loss in horsepower???their research doesn't care about that variable over time...You're presuming that synthetic oils will demonstrate less wear that will lead to fewer valve jobs and fewer oil-related failures over that 100K period. That has simply NEVER been demonstrated - and I can assure you if there were, those oil companies would be all over us with them. There are few demonstrable advantages to synthetic oil - easier cold starting is one of them, and that's why I use them in the winter. Decreased engine wear and associated engine longevity has just never been objectively demonstrated. In the meantime, in the absence of objective data, we all clambor for anecdotes - the friend of a friend's brother's friend that is a NASCAR mechanic and say his engines have less wear with synthetic oil:rolleyes: , and those oil companies oblige us by providing us with an endless stream of such undocumented heartfelt testimonials (heartfelt, I'm sure, but a few advertising dollars tossed that way don't hurt one's enthusiasm for a particular product).

BuoyChaser
10-23-2006, 02:40 PM
You're presuming that synthetic oils will demonstrate less wear that will lead to fewer valve jobs and fewer oil-related failures over that 100K period. That has simply NEVER been demonstrated - and I can assure you if there were, those oil companies would be all over us with them. There are few demonstrable advantages to synthetic oil - easier cold starting is one of them, and that's why I use them in the winter. Decreased engine wear and associated engine longevity has just never been objectively demonstrated. In the meantime, in the absence of objective data, we all clambor for anecdotes - the friend of a friend's brother's friend that is a NASCAR mechanic and say his engines have less wear with synthetic oil:rolleyes: , and those oil companies oblige us by providing us with an endless stream of such undocumented heartfelt testimonials (heartfelt, I'm sure, but a few advertising dollars tossed that way don't hurt one's enthusiasm for a particular product).
so how often are you changing your oil and what filter/oil are you using???

i've always had great luck with Castrol, that's why i used in the past in my aircooled VWs and talk about HOT engines, never had any problems...carried over to Castrol Syntec that was used in my 85 MC with 1100hrs and my dad used Castrol 10W-30 in his 85 MC with the same hours...mine was certainly used harder pulling through the slalom course and barefoot runs, but both engines still ran great because of attention to detail and service, not due to what oils we used...we replaced them once/year at around 75hrs per change...

bigmac
10-23-2006, 02:55 PM
so how often are you changing your oil and what filter/oil are you using???

i've always had great luck with Castrol, that's why i used in the past in my aircooled VWs and talk about HOT engines, never had any problems...carried over to Castrol Syntec that was used in my 85 MC with 1100hrs and my dad used Castrol 10W-30 in his 85 MC with the same hours...mine was certainly used harder pulling through the slalom course and barefoot runs, but both engines still ran great because of attention to detail and service, not due to what oils we used...we replaced them once/year at around 75hrs per change...I use whatever they have at Rapid Oil Change. Their synthetic oil in the winter, regular stuff in the summer. I don't let them change the air filter, I don't let them sell me any of their oil or gas additive crap, I don't let them have anything to do with my transfer case or differential. It goes to the dealer for that stuff. For intervals, I use what my vehicle mfgr recommends -- I get an oil change when my truck's computer tells me it's time...usually somewhere between 5500 - 6500 miles. I would never exceed the auto mfgr's recommended change intervals - the longevity of synthetic oil is based on shear stability. It is no more resistant to soot, acids, and combustion byproducts than any other oil, and in this day and age THOSE are the engine killers - not VI improver breakdown.

People talk about having "great luck" with their oil. I've never figured out what that means...does that mean that they've never had a catastrophic engine failure that was oil-related? Who has? An oil-related engine failure is an extraordinarily rare event and has been for decades. Premature wear - I just don't believe that it happens in engines that get mfgr's recommended maintenance.

Workin' 4 Toys
11-15-2006, 08:38 AM
I used this stuff recently, it looked pretty good coming out of the bottle...;) It's no Amsoil, but I'd rather use it than throw it away:rolleyes: , and it came free with my purchase....:D

TMCNo1
11-15-2006, 08:53 AM
When I saw this thread had returned, my life flashed before my eyes!

bigmac
11-15-2006, 08:54 AM
I used this stuff recently, it looked pretty good coming out of the bottle...;) It's no Amsoil, but I'd rather use it than throw it away:rolleyes: , and it came free with my purchase....:DWow! You're right...that does look like great oil.


;)

Workin' 4 Toys
11-15-2006, 09:10 AM
When I saw this thread had returned, my life flashed before my eyes!
I don't get it......

TMCNo1
11-15-2006, 09:31 AM
I don't get it......



I guess I said that because bigmac has given us this info many times, http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=267387&postcount=17

Workin' 4 Toys
11-15-2006, 09:43 AM
I guess I said that because bigmac has given us this info many times, http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=267387&postcount=17
Ok, I thought for a moment you had something against Amsoil.......:cool: It's a good thing that wasn't it..;)

Think about this.....if we went through and deleted all the posts that were repeated over many times hUMP & Rodney would be non-existant;)

TMCNo1
11-15-2006, 10:23 AM
Ok, I thought for a moment you had something against Amsoil.......:cool: It's a good thing that wasn't it..;)

Think about this.....if we went through and deleted all the posts that were repeated over many times hUMP & Rodney would be non-existant;)

LOL, LOL, LOL,! I know what ya mean!