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6ballsisall
09-07-2006, 05:59 PM
Any tips for skiing 22' off? I get plenty wide and am plenty early for the next buoy but the flippin wake at this speed just about kills me @ 32, 34 mph. I am half tempted just to skip this length and go to 28' off.

6ballsisall
09-07-2006, 06:00 PM
BTW, the wake complaints are behind my boat, 197/X7. Crew of 1 (no observer)

Footin
09-07-2006, 06:01 PM
Try it with no skis in the way.

6ballsisall
09-07-2006, 06:03 PM
Try it with no skis in the way.

Dude if you can get wide enough at 22' off with no skis I'd buy you a beer or ten!!

east tx skier
09-07-2006, 06:06 PM
If you didn't have trouble with 15 off, try 22 off with an 82 foot rope.

Got nuthin'.

Footin
09-07-2006, 06:08 PM
Time on the water is my only serious answer.

You have witnessed my slolom skills and they ain't good.

Brent
09-07-2006, 06:32 PM
22off has a rooster tail behind most boats. If your stay on edge & pull through the wakes it becomes much easier . If your ski is pooping up it is because your are not staying on edge long enough. 22off was a hard pass for me to learn , that bump was intimidating . The neat thing about the course is with every success you get a new challenge After 22off you have 28off & so on.

Good luck

PS
the shorter the gets rope the more patient you need to be going into the ball. Don't let go of the handle till you have too.

Ric
09-07-2006, 06:56 PM
I don't know, I am so far behind this summer!!! I was knocking on 22 off last year and haven't revisited that length this entire summer:mad:

rodltg2
09-07-2006, 07:03 PM
you need to just stay down , stay on edge and keep those knees bent. . i'm now able to run it somewhat consistently. slowing the boat two 32 wont help the bump .try running some soft 34mph at about 17.10.

shepherd
09-07-2006, 07:44 PM
I'll second what rod said. Just keep the ski on edge through the wakes and don't let the bump intimidate you or throw you off, try to stay frozen in your pulling position.

Funny, I found it's almost easier for me to run 22 off than 15 off for some reason. I know MYMC told me my new ski (Monza) would like the shorter line lengths better (but then the 28 off passes ain't any easier than 22 off!).

rodltg2
09-07-2006, 07:51 PM
22 can be easier and less work, but it can also re-enforce short pullin and that wont fly at 28.

Leroy
09-07-2006, 08:23 PM
Ski behind Hoosier Bob's boat! There is no wake there, period! Even at 32 with 3 people in the boat. :)

Not that I know much, but I don't understand if you are early and wide enough what is the problem?

rodltg2
09-07-2006, 08:31 PM
well if your not in the right position coming across the wake , say hello to OTF

Upper Michigan Prostar190
09-07-2006, 09:08 PM
Ah just skip it all Jr, go straight to 43 off. why waste time?;)

88 PS190
09-07-2006, 09:58 PM
if you are in a good posistion and still on edge your knees can handle it in stride. if you are too locked in the knees or leaning back the bump feels harder and bigger.

6ballsisall
09-07-2006, 11:32 PM
Well ski'd a set again tonight. This 22' off stuff sucks......I tried it at 36 mph but darn thats FAST!! Tried 28' off @ 34 and got 3 buoys. My ego says skip 22' off and have fun but my better judgement says back off and learn 22' off......:(

PendO
09-07-2006, 11:39 PM
BTW, the wake complaints are behind my boat, 197/X7. Crew of 1 (no observer)

JR ... is 03 the year that the TT boat had the hooked hull like the 04's thru current? If so, is yours hooked? (threadjack)

6ballsisall
09-07-2006, 11:40 PM
JR ... is 03 the year that the TT boat had the hooked hull like the 04's thru current? If so, is yours hooked? (threadjack)


It's hooked. All 197/X7's were hooked in 03. 02's only the TT boats were hooked.

PendO
09-07-2006, 11:48 PM
It's hooked. All 197/X7's were hooked in 03. 02's only the TT boats were hooked.

Ump needs an 02 TT with pinstriping that says "The Original Hooker"

6ballsisall
09-07-2006, 11:52 PM
Ump needs an 02 TT with pinstriping that says "The Original Hooker"


TRU DAT!!!!!!!!!!:D

jake
09-08-2006, 01:14 AM
Well ski'd a set again tonight. This 22' off stuff sucks......I tried it at 36 mph but darn thats FAST!! Tried 28' off @ 34 and got 3 buoys. My ego says skip 22' off and have fun but my better judgement says back off and learn 22' off......:(

You kidding me?? You can't get 22' off, so you think going to 28' is the answer? 28' is a whole different game my man, makes 22' seem easy. True, the wake is better @ 28' off, but it's much faster and timing suddenly becomes a big issue. 3 buoys is fairly easy...you only have one off-side turn (assuming you are LFF), so you are late coming off 2, no problem you can still get around 3, but trying for 4 is impossible.

I'd say learn 22 off, you have to earn the shorter rope.

ntidsl
09-08-2006, 08:45 AM
yeah dude...run 100 22 offs before you even try 28 off and then prepar to have your shoulder taken off your first few 28s...just slow down jeff...dont even try a 22 off 32....you need 34 to be doing a 22 off...slice the wake and don't freak out...your wake isnt big dude...its in your head...

MYMC
09-08-2006, 10:03 AM
Jeff,
Here is what I have to offer by way of advice... Lots of good info here, i.e. keep your knees bent and so on because at 22 there is a decent bump behind the boat. Couple things I would add...make sure you are looking where you want to go and not at what you are worrying about (the bump). Also remember that your strongest pull is behind the boat...not off the ball or coming to the wake...behind the boat. So you need to be in your best power position and hold it. Most skiers will end up double pulling when encountering something like this. They give the edge up behind the boat but have good position and power on either side of the wake; unfortunately this will make you fast and you'll end up with slack (or worse).

Lastly, I think it is a good idea to shorten the rope from time to time or speed the boat up to 35 or 36. It is too easy to fall into a rut and get frustrated by one line length and or speed. Further my personal opinion is that shorter rope lengths are easier! Why? With proper body position the boat does more of the work for you. There is much less of that "pulling" feeling than at long line. The distance between balls doesn’t change (only your distance from the boat does) so if you always have the ball at your ankle no matter the line length you won't have an issue with speed or being rushed.

BTW, you think the bump is bad? Wait till you get into 38 and the guys boat has a hole the width of the wake to ski through! Nothing more terrifying than worrying about sticking the tip coming across the wake on your way to one ball…the trough was so bad you actually dropped in on one side and popped out on the other!:eek:

6ballsisall
09-08-2006, 10:08 AM
Thanks guys! Good advice. I will try some of this stuff Saturday morning when I get out again.

skisix@38
09-08-2006, 11:30 AM
Any tips for skiing 22' off? I get plenty wide and am plenty early for the next buoy but the flippin wake at this speed just about kills me @ 32, 34 mph. I am half tempted just to skip this length and go to 28' off.


I can't believe that in three pages of posts about this no-one has come up with the obvious solution - ski behind a Malibu! :) :) :D

beef
09-08-2006, 11:48 AM
Great advice all around. Ok, most (skisix :) ) If you get in a good position out of the turn and HOLD it through the bump, you'll be fine. My son made it through 15 off at 26 mph this year after finally having that revelation. I know it's not the same as 22, but the wakes can be big at that speed. I always told him - You're bigger than they are, so push throught it!

ntidsl
09-08-2006, 11:51 AM
dude...thats funny...I never ever thought I'd feel a difference in boat wakes...really...well I'd feel a difference but it wouldnt impact me...so I'm running 22 and 28 off consistently and I go out with a guy who is skiing 35 off consistently to get some refreshers...

he takes me out in his lxi and tell me to start at 15 off...no problem...going into the gates...whamm...I'm freakin airborne...turn one ball...wham...what the...around 2 ball, i'm hooking up and my hand hits the handle and dislocates my finger...I'm okay I'm okay...I got deep into 22 off and was so beat up I didnt want to continue...I mean i hated it...its weird...I think his wake is smaller...but now I know its harder...

jake
09-08-2006, 12:02 PM
I think his wake is smaller...but now I know its harder...

I hear you man...we have one bu on our lake, wake is great at 28 off plus, but you need climbing gear back at 22 off....

jake
09-08-2006, 12:05 PM
Further my personal opinion is that shorter rope lengths are easier! Why? With proper body position the boat does more of the work for you.

Absolutly true...hence the key to winning is being able to run your 22 off pass cause it just gets easier the shorter the rope gets.

6ballsisall
09-08-2006, 12:07 PM
HAHA!!! Thats funny about the wake! I ski behind a Tige every once in a while and that wake is got to be harder than a cement curb!!! I mean it REALLY does hurt my knees when I am done with my set. I guess I need to nut up and start skiing at 36, at that speed there IS NOT a wake at all behind my boat. :D

MYMC
09-08-2006, 12:42 PM
Absolutly true...hence the key to winning is being able to run your 22 off pass cause it just gets easier the shorter the rope gets.
You're the one who said 28 was tough not me.

east tx skier
09-08-2006, 12:45 PM
I can't believe that in three pages of posts about this no-one has come up with the obvious solution - ski behind a Malibu! :) :) :D

So obviously a joke, it doesn't even require editing. ;)

BrianM
09-08-2006, 01:14 PM
HAHA!!! Thats funny about the wake! I ski behind a Tige every once in a while and that wake is got to be harder than a cement curb!!! I mean it REALLY does hurt my knees when I am done with my set. I guess I need to nut up and start skiing at 36, at that speed there IS NOT a wake at all behind my boat. :D

I vote you up the speed and ski a consistent 15 off 36mph before you start cutting rope. Then when you cut to 22 slow the boat down to 34mph and it will feel like you are crawling. Then bump the speed back up.

Gotta ski at 36mph. No cutting rope until you are not sking girls speed anymore. :D

6ballsisall
09-08-2006, 01:40 PM
So obviously a joke, it doesn't even require editing. ;)

LOL!!!!! :D

6ballsisall
09-08-2006, 01:41 PM
I vote you up the speed and ski a consistent 15 off 36mph before you start cutting rope. Then when you cut to 22 slow the boat down to 34mph and it will feel like you are crawling. Then bump the speed back up.

Gotta ski at 36mph. No cutting rope until you are not sking girls speed anymore. :D

I know I know.........36 is haulin though! I am pretty certain I can ski it @ 15' off. I'll give it a whirl tommorrow morning. Funny......I keep looking forward to turning 35 so I don't have to ski that fast anymore.....:D

rodltg2
09-08-2006, 01:48 PM
i dont see the need to ski 36 unless your planning on competing in tournaments, why beat your self up if you dont have too. unless you like the feel of 36, i would stay at 34 and just run your 15's earlier and wider until you can do them with your eyes closed. that will make 22's come easier.

6ballsisall
09-08-2006, 01:51 PM
i dont see the need to ski 36 unless your planning on competing in tournaments, why beat your self up if you dont have too. unless you like the feel of 36, i would stay at 34 and just run your 15's earlier and wider until you can do them with your eyes closed. that will make 22's come easier.

15's are coming pretty easy to me now a days. Thus the need to progress. I can easily get wide and early enough to eat a sandwich at each ball (ok maybe not that early :D ) I think it all boils down to my fear of the wake difference. Thinking about it more I think I am doing a double pull, starting at the turn, then as I stare where I want to go cross course my eye catches the boat wake and I get freaked and let up a little bit. I think this is why I am getting my SH*T rocked cross course.

rodltg2
09-08-2006, 01:58 PM
my first pass at 22 this year i did a nasty OTF and it intimated me for a long time too. i was concentrating to hard on not doing it again that it made me ski it like crap. just dont focus on it and ski it just like your 15.
im no expert what so ever since i'm pretty much where your as well, but this is what has helped me out. i'm now able to run 22's fairly often.

jake
09-08-2006, 01:58 PM
You're the one who said 28 was tough not me.


that was an attempt at sarcasm....obviously didn't translate well.

MYMC
09-08-2006, 02:06 PM
that was an attempt at sarcasm....obviously didn't translate well.
Uhh...I was doing the same. Damn internet we need a sarcasm button.

beef
09-08-2006, 02:10 PM
Thinking about it more I think I am doing a double pull, starting at the turn, then as I stare where I want to go cross course my eye catches the boat wake and I get freaked and let up a little bit. I think this is why I am getting my SH*T rocked cross course.

Do not look the wake in the eye, and NEVER let is sense your fear. As a mater of fact, as you pass by the bump, reach down and grab it in your best dog whisperer impression - TSHH! TSHH! :D

jkski
09-08-2006, 02:14 PM
For what it is worth, I am in the same situation as you are, and the thing that has helped me is to keep that handle low and fix my eyes cross course as I am starting my turn at the bouy, which let's me pick up sight of the next ball just before the bow passes it. Why does this help... it get's my mind thinking about getting there and helps me complete the turn in a better pulling position.
I have been struggling with the jump from 34 to 36 all season and have finally accepted that I don't need to run 36 since I am 35 basically, but everyone has to reach that point in their own time! 36 is a rush but I have also had some of my worst injuries at 36 and that has hampered the entire season.

Good luck,

skisix@38
09-08-2006, 03:08 PM
I don't have any idea of what any boats wake is like at 22 or longer. I start at 28 or 32 and go down the line. Rarely do I feel any wakes behind boats, and if I do it's only at 28, 32 and shorter I couldn't tell you the difference between 196, 197 and RLXi. The difference is more in the pull then the wakes.

Yes, that was obviously a joke but, if I offended any MC'ers, then feel free to edit my post.



dude...thats funny...I never ever thought I'd feel a difference in boat wakes...really...well I'd feel a difference but it wouldnt impact me...so I'm running 22 and 28 off consistently and I go out with a guy who is skiing 35 off consistently to get some refreshers...

he takes me out in his lxi and tell me to start at 15 off...no problem...going into the gates...whamm...I'm freakin airborne...turn one ball...wham...what the...around 2 ball, i'm hooking up and my hand hits the handle and dislocates my finger...I'm okay I'm okay...I got deep into 22 off and was so beat up I didnt want to continue...I mean i hated it...its weird...I think his wake is smaller...but now I know its harder...

east tx skier
09-08-2006, 03:25 PM
I don't have any idea of what any boats wake is like at 22 or longer. I start at 28 or 32 and go down the line. Rarely do I feel any wakes behind boats, and if I do it's only at 28, 32 and shorter I couldn't tell you the difference between 196, 197 and RLXi. The difference is more in the pull then the wakes.

Yes, that was obviously a joke but, if I offended any MC'ers, then feel free to edit my post.


I doubt it did. Well, I'm sure it will offend someone. But not to worry. Your three smilies clearly indicated your intent. :) If I'm wrong and this was a must delete scenario, I will not resist having my head put on a pike electronically speaking.

BrianM
09-08-2006, 04:26 PM
i dont see the need to ski 36 unless your planning on competing in tournaments, why beat your self up if you dont have too. unless you like the feel of 36, i would stay at 34 and just run your 15's earlier and wider until you can do them with your eyes closed. that will make 22's come easier.
I feel the opposite as you do Rod. I don't see the need to ski 34mph until I am unable. Although I am never going to be an open tournament skier I truely do not plan to slow the boat down until I have to. I guess I just really like the feel of 36mph (and the punishment). It took me 2 years of course skiing to get to 36mph so I just feel like going to 34mph would be going the opposite direction. Now I don't mind slowing down to try and get some consistency at new passes but once I am feeling it I have to go back to speed.

Oh and I also like being the only skier in my club skiing 36. Our club is old people and women except for me 8p

6ballsisall
09-09-2006, 02:20 PM
Do not look the wake in the eye, and NEVER let is sense your fear. As a mater of fact, as you pass by the bump, reach down and grab it in your best dog whisperer impression - TSHH! TSHH! :D


Good advice Beef!! Made 22' off pretty easy this morning on my first pass! Thats the ticket, don't look the wake in the eye, get a little more bent in the knees and most importanlty do a Easty face when you ski it :D
For giggles I tried 28' off and made it except observer says I missed the entrance gates.....:(

Brent
09-09-2006, 04:17 PM
That is not a bad way to start a new line length (missing the entrance gates). If you run it, then all that really needs to be worked on is the timing for the gates , great way to get rid of the fear off success.

Way to go!!!

rodltg2
09-11-2006, 04:10 PM
well i got up close and personal with the 22 bump on the cc196 yesterday. i was running it smooth up till the point where i got shoulders forward after rounding 4ball. i coulnt clean it up and stuck the tip of the ski in the wake. ski stopped , i went flying about 15 feet. followed by a couple helicopter spins after hitting the water. i got back in the boat and somehow felt okay and finished the set. today on the other hand is a different story. my back , neck and shoulder are stiff as hell..

jkski
09-11-2006, 05:01 PM
OUCH, nice to see you finished out the set though. So, did you come out of the ski, or did it manage to stay on? Did you run the 22off pass on the next trip through the course?

Chef23
09-12-2006, 09:33 PM
I really don't think that 22 off is any different than 15 off as long as your body position is correct. It sounds like you have been so concerned with the wake that you aren't holding your body position and pull through the wake. If you are in the right position you won't even notice the wake is there. Make sure to hold your pull until you are through the whitewater past the wake and you will be fine.

If you ran a full 28 on your next pass that was some good skiing even if you missed the entry gates. To me 28 is much faster than 22.

Brent
09-12-2006, 09:57 PM
Rod

It will take a couple of weeks for you to get full rotation of your neck back , been there done that every year since starting the course.

Every new pass feels fast at first.

shepherd
09-12-2006, 11:00 PM
If you ran a full 28 on your next pass that was some good skiing even if you missed the entry gates. To me 28 is much faster than 22.

That's what I was thinking. Good job JR! 28 off is a whole 'nother world for me. I was concentrating on trying to make 28 off passes during my last 2 sets tonight (i.e., skipping the 15 and 22 passes). I came close to making it a few times.

One thing I noticed -- after struggling through trying to make 15 and 22 off passes on multiple attempts, I'd be worn out and gasping for air. After making multiple 28 off attempted passes in a set, I wasn't even tired! The only reason I got back in the boat is that I didn't want to hog the water. Is that normal?
I'm not saying that 28 off is easier to do, it just seemed easier on the body...

6ballsisall
09-12-2006, 11:04 PM
Uh guys let me rephrase that....my 28' pass was nothing to write home...lets just say it wasn't pretty....I just managed to get buoys.....form, timing, all that shiznit went out the door :D I was just bound and determined to get some buoys.

shepherd
09-12-2006, 11:11 PM
You don't get points for style and showmanship, only for getting around the balls. If you got around all 6 at 28 off JR...===>> :worthy:

88 PS190
09-13-2006, 12:16 AM
The angle the rope makes with the boat at 28' puts more of the pull of the rope into a towards the wakes component than it does at 15 or 22. So simply its a faster acceleration, if you get in a good pulling form you'll rocket across.

Brent
09-13-2006, 07:43 AM
Being bound & determined is a good thing . To improve in the course , the tenacity to keep going until you fall or really miss a ball will help you progress quickly. The biggest set-back I see for a lot of skiers is stopping because they think they are running late. If you can keep the mind set of it ain't over till it's over ,you will progress faster through rope lengths.

ntidsl
09-13-2006, 09:01 AM
I agree about the breathing thing...15 off I'm tired, 22 off sorta tired, 28 off...not as much work...more about form at 28 and 32 off than working hard...A guy at my lake told me the only way I'm gonna run 32 off is to relax and slow down...I'll try when it warms back up...

jake
09-14-2006, 10:44 AM
Being bound & determined is a good thing . To improve in the course , the tenacity to keep going until you fall or really miss a ball will help you progress quickly. The biggest set-back I see for a lot of skiers is stopping because they think they are running late. If you can keep the mind set of it ain't over till it's over ,you will progress faster through rope lengths.

I agree sort of...there is also some wisdom in living to fight another day. OTF falls are usually a result of trying to make up time, developing too much speed and getting out of proper pull position. I've started to bail on more passes or just ski inside a buoy if I'm late and get back over to the next one to finish out the pass to make the most of my practice time.

I also have noticed that sometimes when I think I'm skiing poorly, it's just because my intensity isn't there. If I can give myself a little talking to, get my a$$ going, the skiing usually improves. It's a fine line between giving it a real go and knowing when to fold your hand.

I also agree with what's being said about level of effort at 28' off compared to 22' and 15' off. 15' and 22' are physically harder than 28' but 28' requires more skill imo, ie timing and technique. At the longer line lengths, it feels like you are pulling for ever.

pilot02
09-14-2006, 10:45 AM
Drink, Drink, Drink!!!!
I am as we speak!!!!!

MYMC
09-14-2006, 01:24 PM
I agree sort of...there is also some wisdom in living to fight another day. OTF falls are usually a result of trying to make up time, developing too much speed and getting out of proper pull position. I've started to bail on more passes or just ski inside a buoy if I'm late and get back over to the next one to finish out the pass to make the most of my practice time.

I also have noticed that sometimes when I think I'm skiing poorly, it's just because my intensity isn't there. If I can give myself a little talking to, get my a$$ going, the skiing usually improves. It's a fine line between giving it a real go and knowing when to fold your hand.

I also agree with what's being said about level of effort at 28' off compared to 22' and 15' off. 15' and 22' are physically harder than 28' but 28' requires more skill imo, ie timing and technique. At the longer line lengths, it feels like you are pulling for ever.
Well said. With OTF falls think about it this way...it is NEVER a good idea to lead with your face;)

88 PS190
09-14-2006, 02:01 PM
I've fought my fair number of OTF's each and every time it becomes a chest/face plant, if you feel it coming tuck and roll much nicer fall.

MasterCrafting
09-15-2006, 12:04 AM
I can barefoot at 36....i dont see any reason i should have to slalom at that speed. :eek:

Jesus_Freak
09-15-2006, 12:30 AM
I have a tip for all of you short-liners: Watch me ski. In between your spells of violent laughter, pointing, and giving me new names that include the phrases pansy, pixie, fairy, wussy, dandelion, etc. you will see all the things you do well and focus on those.

Brent
09-15-2006, 07:34 AM
Jake

I see people for no apparent reason give up. If you make it around a ball & can hang on ,go for the next one. I agree if your shoulders are bent forward going into the wake let go or you sense a farm purchase coming let go & live to fight another day. The ability to recognize when not to give up is a plus to getting better.

28off is just a nicer pass than 22off , but you have to be able to run 22 to get to it. Patients in the turns & work behind the boat = shorter line lengths .