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Hoff1
08-28-2006, 10:54 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/08/27/plane.crash/index.html

Terrible way to wake up in the yesterday morning. I've flown in and out of this airport countless times. The local news channels have started releasing the names of the passengers. Most from the central Kentucky region. Horrific to know that most died from the fire after the crash and not the impact.

east tx skier
08-28-2006, 10:56 AM
Looking like they got setup on the wrong runway. Really awful thing to hear yesterday.

chudson
08-28-2006, 11:03 AM
A friend I work with said he had a friend that flew that flight often, called him quickly and found that he had recently retired. Angel on his shoulder.

MYMC
08-28-2006, 11:13 AM
Sounds like cocpit error, as they had been cleared on the correct runway and took off from the short one. Our ground school CFI told us the FAA calls 70% of all accidents pilot error, although other studies show the number as high as 90%.

Hoff1
08-28-2006, 11:17 AM
Any frequent flyer on that plane would have probably known they were on the wrong runway by looking out the window. It would have caught my attention.

Crazy to think that this kind of stuff can still happen in this day and age. Even the runway was not lit up with lights, completely dark.

east tx skier
08-28-2006, 11:21 AM
Sounds like cocpit error, as they had been cleared on the correct runway and took off from the short one. Our ground school CFI told us the FAA calls 70% of all accidents pilot error, although other studies show the number as high as 90%.

I would've guessed the exact opposite. I'm not sure of the size of that airport, but any place with a tower/ground control that I ever flew into would really give it to you if you deviated in the least from what they told you to do.

Hoff1
08-28-2006, 11:26 AM
This airport basically has 2 runways. One long (7000ft) and one short (3500ft).

6ballsisall
08-28-2006, 11:43 AM
Yep it does seem really odd. Sad for sure.

I still can't figure out how they got on the wrong runway. That runway isn't lit, the crew has flown there before, I don't get it. Sounds as though pilot error. So sad to hear it for all aboard.

That plane empty w/ 1/2 fuel wouldn't get up in 3500ft. Thats a short runway. It didn't stand a chance. :(

My prayers go out to the families who lost loved ones on that flight.

milkmania
08-28-2006, 01:21 PM
Herringtech and I had a pretty good visit about it this week-end.....

That's the airport I'm flying into into and out of for MagMania.

truly tragic,
I feel it would only take a second for the flight to say to tower
"hey, look at me, am I lookin' good for take off", and after a visual tower says "looking good, let her rip".

damn, what about a few bucks for paint to paint the runway saying something like
Runway 26, 3500 feet or Runway 22, 7500 feet.

I mean you only got two runways!
and all the planes taxi to one end and get ready to take off. A sign saying something like Runway 26, 3500 feet or Runway 22, 7500 feet. Have a Nice Flight.

Of course I'm just speculating they don't already implement these things, but what I see is that 49lives were tragically lost.
And from indications so far, it would appear somebody screwed up!

read a news account that said they'd just recently added 500 feet to each end of the long runway to come into compliance with the FAA. And also tehy had just resurfaced that runway on August 20th.


took a screen shot of google earth. Short runway unlit, long runway lighted.

click image to enlarge
http://www.bhammonster.com/lex.jpg

east tx skier
08-28-2006, 01:28 PM
Wow, isn't 7,500 feet kind of short for passenger jets as well? I seem to recall 10,000' being preferable. But maybe I'm thinking of bigger planes.

When I first saw this, I had to remember what the dates were for MagMania. I don't know why I keep thinking August on that.

herringtech
08-28-2006, 01:36 PM
Ya, those commuter jets only need 5000' to clear a 50' obstacle, but as MYMC said its probably pilot error. Even if the tower directs you to the wrong runway, they dont control the plane. Its the pilots job to know the airport and the flight plan.

No approved flight plan would have called for them on that runway EVER. To that pilots defense though, they do have a lot to do. Information saturation is a common problem and with "on time" expectations from corporate, many guys will not second guess a tower, they have too much other stuff to worry about.

I'm just sick about it though. I fly that airline all the time. I've never been to that airport, but I'm in those Comair commuters at least once a month

6ballsisall
08-28-2006, 01:37 PM
Wow, isn't 7,500 feet kind of short for passenger jets as well? I seem to recall 10,000' being preferable. But maybe I'm thinking of bigger planes.

When I first saw this, I had to remember what the dates were for MagMania. I don't know why I keep thinking August on that.


7500 is on the shorter side but is doable. One advantage we have out here is our altitude, or lack there-of. 7500 runway in high alt. would be much more difficult to deal with than out here. Lots of larger airports now have runways in excess of 10k feet. I am unfamiliar if any heavy's land at Bluegrass airport or not.

I am just a lowly private pilot w/ no ratings. I can tell you, 3500 feet isn't that long....even in a Cessna. I would think the pilot of that flight would have known very quickly he was in trouble after powering up. As fast as he'd need to go to get airborne and as fast as that plane accelerates it would be just a matter of seconds before he exceeded his point of no return.

prostar205
08-28-2006, 01:37 PM
This indeed is a sad day. My twin brother is a Comair Captain and knew the Captain of that flight very well. He was a seasoned Captain of 7 years and had flown in and out of Lexington hundreds of times. Comair's base is Cincinnati which is only 20 minutes by airplane from Lexington.

My prayers go out to all aboard.

6ballsisall
08-28-2006, 01:38 PM
.

I'm just sick about it though. I fly that airline all the time. I've never been to that airport, but I'm in those Comair commuters at least once a month


Me too.....I fly them about 4 times a month. The wife said I should switch....it really doesn't matter, this scenario could have as easily happened with any carrier.

6ballsisall
08-28-2006, 01:41 PM
Herringtech and I had a pretty good visit about it this week-end.....

That's the airport I'm flying into into and out of for MagMania.

truly tragic,
I feel it would only take a second for the flight to say to tower
"hey, look at me, am I lookin' good for take off", and after a visual tower says "looking good, let her rip".

damn, what about a few bucks for paint to paint the runway saying something like
Runway 26, 3500 feet or Runway 22, 7500 feet.

I mean you only got two runways!
and all the planes taxi to one end and get ready to take off. A sign saying something like Runway 26, 3500 feet or Runway 22, 7500 feet. Have a Nice Flight.

Of course I'm just speculating they don't already implement these things, but what I see is that 49lives were tragically lost.
And from indications so far, it would appear somebody screwed up!

read a news account that said they'd just recently added 500 feet to each end of the long runway to come into compliance with the FAA. And also tehy had just resurfaced that runway on August 20th.


took a screen shot of google earth. Short runway unlit, long runway lighted.

click image to enlarge
http://www.bhammonster.com/lex.jpg


Wow! It's amazing to see visually the difference in runway size. You can't help wonder if the tower said something to them before power up like "dude, you are on the wrong runway!" suppose it would have been difficult since it was dark though.

Hoff1
08-28-2006, 02:36 PM
It might have been something with the recent repaving. The main runway received a full repavement while the small one only received enough to tie it into the larger one. Could have gotten confused. But if you saw how large the runway numbers 22 and 26 are painted on at the end of the runways now, it sure seems hard to 2 people in the cockpit to not realized what they've done.

I've been on a few of the early morning flights where the runways are empty and the plane gets cleared before even getting to the end. They simplying turn right out onto the runway and floor it without even stopping or hardly slowing down.

KnoxX2
08-28-2006, 02:37 PM
Sad day in Ky. My pryers and thoughts are with the Family's.

MYMC
08-28-2006, 03:19 PM
Pretty easy to get confused, lots going on before take off...read some of the crash reports. Everglades in 1972 B727 crew is trying to figure out why the landing gear light won't come on as the plane desends into the Everglades killing all on board. The bulb was burnt out.

It is never one thing that cause these accidents it is always a chain of events that add up to a tragedy.

Datdude
08-28-2006, 03:21 PM
Does anyone know how the first officer is doing? Last I heard he was in surgery and in critical condition. If he makes it he may be able to shed some light on the situation. I can not imagine the guilt that poor bastage is gonna have though:( . Why would a professional pilot take off on a dark runway? No comprende

Hoff1
08-28-2006, 03:23 PM
Does anyone know how the first officer is doing? Last I heard he was in surgery and in critical condition. If he makes it he may be able to shed some light on the situation. I can not imagine the guilt that poor bastage is gonna have though:( . Why would a professional pilot take off on a dark runway? No comprende

His surgeon gave a press conference last night. Basically, the guys family doesn't want anything about his condition released. All of the doctor's responses were, "I'm sorry but I cannot comment".

A lot of times, people that went through something like that have no memory of the accident. Probably would be a good chance he won't either.

6ballsisall
08-28-2006, 03:24 PM
Pretty easy to get confused, lots going on before take off...read some of the crash reports. Everglades in 1972 B727 crew is trying to figure out why the landing gear light won't come on as the plane desends into the Everglades killing all on board. The bulb was burnt out.

It is never one thing that cause these accidents it is always a chain of events that add up to a tragedy.


Very true...... I wonder if this was the 1st time that crew flew out of Bluegrass after the repaving that was done? I know they flew out of there alot but since the longer runway was very recently repaved perhaps it caught them offguard. All in all, its certainly a tragedy.

I can only imagine the gut wrenching feeling it must have been for the pilot and co. They had to have known early into their runup that they were in trouble, but by then there probably wasn't alot they could do except give it everything it had. During my training to get my license I remember going up in a 152 in Colorado on a hot day, density altitude was around 9,000 feet. Personally I don't think we should have been flying that POS that day but I remember sweating bullets trying to keep the stall horn from going off and barely clearing trees along the river......Yes I checked my drawers when we were done....

Hoff1
08-28-2006, 03:28 PM
They had finished the repaving only one week before, so most likely they hadn't been there since.

6ballsisall
08-28-2006, 03:38 PM
They had finished the repaving only one week before, so most likely they hadn't been there since.

Somehow I bet that played a large role in the tragedy.

starman205
08-28-2006, 04:05 PM
So I wonder, if they just finished repaving, did they remenber to paint the numbers back on the runways? :confused:

Hoff1
08-28-2006, 04:07 PM
So I wonder, if they just finished repaving, did they remenber to paint the numbers back on the runways? :confused:

Numbers were repainted and were huge. Hard to miss from the air, maybe to big to read from the ground though.

6ballsisall
08-28-2006, 04:13 PM
So I wonder, if they just finished repaving, did they remenber to paint the numbers back on the runways? :confused:

Yes.....


Just got off the phone with my best friend who is a pilot for another regional carrier. He flies the ERJ, the one that crashed was a CRJ. Anyway, he has flown out of Bluegrass alot and said he could see how it could happen but at the same token can't see how they didn't know before runup what they were were doing. The little runway is really narrow vs. the longer one which is alot wider.
V1 for the performance chart on 3,500 would be VERY quick, like within a few seconds of rolling the throttles. The boxes will tell all. If the pilot after that point knew he was in deep doo-doo all he could do is white knuckle it and try for it. Apparently there are gouge marks at the end of the runway, which would depict him trying to pull back on it and gain altitude.

My buddy flying the ERJ has taken off on some 3500 ft. runways but they only do it when they are light. He didn't think the CRJ could do it at all because the performance on that plane is less. They probably need 130 knots or so to get off the ground loaded. To give you an idea, 3500 of runway would come and go in about 6.5 seconds from throttles opened up........

Basically, they stood no chance of making it. Very sad :(

6ballsisall
08-29-2006, 01:43 PM
Very sad.......


http://www.channelcincinnati.com/news/9746273/detail.html

milkmania
01-17-2007, 03:24 PM
update:
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-kentucky-crash,0,3585500.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines