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View Full Version : Indmar VS. PCM


johny_Utah
08-24-2006, 12:23 AM
What is the difference between Indmar and PCM. I can't find a manual for an 89 indmar engine but I did for a PCM. Also when I order parts from Discount they have a PCM lable on them.

Here is the PCM manual

http://www.correctcraftfan.com/Downloads/PCM%20Engine%20Owners%20Manual.pdf

Mikey
08-24-2006, 09:02 AM
I think indmar uses GM motors and PCM uses Ford.

Hoosier Bob
08-24-2006, 09:07 AM
Depending on the year they use/used both Ford and GM. I have owned PCM (PleasureCraft Marine) Ford engines and my current Indmar is also a Ford. Go to SkiDim and research. There ae many differences but on older boats there may be some common parts.
www.skidim.com

G-man
08-24-2006, 09:09 AM
Mikey

both companies currently use Chevy blocks, both in the past have used Fords, Indmar was the first to switch to Chevy. I have had both engines and they are both excellent.

bigmac
08-24-2006, 09:12 AM
What is the difference between Indmar and PCM. I can't find a manual for an 89 indmar engine but I did for a PCM. Also when I order parts from Discount they have a PCM lable on them.

Here is the PCM manual

http://www.correctcraftfan.com/Downloads/PCM%20Engine%20Owners%20Manual.pdfPCM is just another engine marinization company that specializes in inboard ski/wake engines, just like Indmar. Sometimes they've used GM blocks, sometimes they've used Ford. Relative quality and performance is arguable, just like the differences between...well...Chevy and Ford vehicles.

corey
08-24-2006, 09:13 AM
An 89' MC will have a ford 351 engine in it as would most MC's up until 93 when a GM 350 became an option. Starting in 94' the GM 350 became the standard engine.

PCM and Indmar simply marinize the engines. I believe PCM currently uses GM based engines though in the past they were more of a Ford based power plant.

ski_king
08-24-2006, 09:21 AM
In 89 the biggist difference between the 2 was the water pump.
PCM is belt driven and the Indmar is crank driven.

There are a few other differences as well, both are good.

Ford no longer is producing a block for the industry so GM supplies blocks to PCM, Indmar, Mercruiser and probobly a couple more I cant think of.

PCM also used the GM block and was always an option on a MasterCraft back in the 80's.
http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=80542&postcount=8

east tx skier
08-24-2006, 09:59 AM
In 89 the biggist difference between the 2 was the water pump.
PCM is belt driven and the Indmar is crank driven.

There are a few other differences as well, both are good.

Ford no longer is producing a block for the industry so GM supplies blocks to PCM, Indmar, Mercruiser and probobly a couple more I cant think of.

PCM also used the GM block and was always an option on a MasterCraft back in the 80's.
http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=80542&postcount=8

Yeah, was the PCM pump a jabsco versus the Indmar, which used Johnson? The blocks are either Ford or Chevy for the most part (the last PCM Fords were put into production in about mid 2002; after that, they were Chevy though there may have been some straglers). The difference apart from the blocks are just the components. There is a partial parts list in the FAQ that cross references some of the parts with local auto parts stores (mostly for the Indmar Ford). Skidim will have pretty much whatever you need. Yes, it may be labeled PCM, the Johnson 812 impeller for example, but if they say it will work for Indmar, it will work.

TMCNo1
08-24-2006, 10:48 AM
Until the early '90's most all marine engine marinizing companies used Ford products, with GM as a option, except for Mercruiser. Then electronic fuel injection came along and the marine industry wanted to convert to it. Ford was very reluctant to work with the marine industry to convert but GM spent the money, manpower to develope technology, share technology to develope their engines with electronic fuel injection for the marine industry with Indmar and Mastercraft. Ford tried as a last resort to develope their products in '92/'93, but GM had already done it and had basically stole Fords place in the marine market also working with PCM and Mercruiser among others. Mastercraft was working together with Indmar and GM to pull the conversion off, which they did and that is why Mastercraft was the first to introduce Electronic Fuel Injection in late 1992 in the 1993 boat lineup. That is one reason MC and GM has had such a strong relationship as seen by the Cadillac Northstar engines and the original marine Vortec program.

Mikey
08-24-2006, 11:27 AM
Mikey

both companies currently use Chevy blocks, both in the past have used Fords, Indmar was the first to switch to Chevy. I have had both engines and they are both excellent.

Cool, I learned something new today.:cool:

east tx skier
08-24-2006, 11:52 AM
Here's a little more on the subject. I'm going on memory, so I may have a few of my details skewed.

Around 2000 or so, Ford announced that it was going to start marinizing its own engines. It either built or dedicated a factory specifically for this purpose. PCM, who had comitted to buying Fords to marinize through about 2002 or so (I suppose) obviously wasn't pleased about it. After 9/11, the economy went south and Ford scrapped the plans and closed the factory. PCM went with Chevy for future engines.

This is at least the way I understand the story. I could be misinformed, but I trust my source.

LakePirate
08-24-2006, 11:57 AM
Easty I recall seeing that somewhere as well.

FYI - Mastercraft and Indmar have been power partners since 1985. Or atleast that is what my hat says.

ski_king
08-24-2006, 12:00 PM
Here's a little more on the subject. I'm going on memory, so I may have a few of my details skewed.

Around 2000 or so, Ford announced that it was going to start marinizing its own engines. It either built or dedicated a factory specifically for this purpose. PCM, who had comitted to buying Fords to marinize through about 2002 or so (I suppose) obviously wasn't pleased about it. After 9/11, the economy went south and Ford scrapped the plans and closed the factory. PCM went with Chevy for future engines.

This is at least the way I understand the story. I could be misinformed, but I trust my source.
http://www.rbbi.com/company/ford/fpr1.htm

TMCNo1
08-24-2006, 12:01 PM
Here's a little more on the subject. I'm going on memory, so I may have a few of my details skewed.

Around 2000 or so, Ford announced that it was going to start marinizing its own engines. It either built or dedicated a factory specifically for this purpose. PCM, who had comitted to buying Fords to marinize through about 2002 or so (I suppose) obviously wasn't pleased about it. After 9/11, the economy went south and Ford scrapped the plans and closed the factory. PCM went with Chevy for future engines.

This is at least the way I understand the story. I could be misinformed, but I trust my source.



Ford has tried several ways over the last 14+/- years to recapture it's lost marine market that GM has aquired due to their introduction of Electronic Fuel Injection into the marine market without any success. That was just one failed attempt.

east tx skier
08-24-2006, 12:08 PM
Ford has tried several ways over the last 14+/- years to recapture it's lost marine market that GM has aquired due to their introduction of Electronic Fuel Injection into the marine market without any success. That was just one failed attempt.

Not comparing them to the GM power plants, but for what it's worth the multi-port fuel injected GT-40s are pretty highly regarded for power and reliability from all I've read, even if they weren't as widely used in the marine industry as Chevys from 94 on.

sfitzgerald351
08-28-2006, 09:11 PM
I recall having a Nautique at the University Aquatic Center that had the GT-40 motor in it. For tournament skiing, multiple skiers, and pulling heavy skiers it was awesome because of the absolutely ridiculous power it put out (way more than the 454 I have now). But it was almost impossible to teach beginners with because it simply had way too strong of a pull. It was incredibly difficult to ease the boat up to speed without turning our skiers into superman. Occasionally someone would jump in this boat from one of the other ones that was exactly the same (except for the motor) and would punch it and would turn a poor light college coed into superman (picture holding the handle, arms out in front, body completely out of the water, ski somewhere behind her).

DooSPX
08-28-2006, 09:16 PM
I recall having a Nautique at the University Aquatic Center that had the GT-40 motor in it. For tournament skiing, multiple skiers, and pulling heavy skiers it was awesome because of the absolutely ridiculous power it put out (way more than the 454 I have now). But it was almost impossible to teach beginners with because it simply had way too strong of a pull. It was incredibly difficult to ease the boat up to speed without turning our skiers into superman. Occasionally someone would jump in this boat from one of the other ones that was exactly the same (except for the motor) and would punch it and would turn a poor light college coed into superman (picture holding the handle, arms out in front, body completely out of the water, ski somewhere behind her).

thats kinda funny to picture... are you talking about a carbed GT-40 or a EFI GT-40 ??

JimN
08-28-2006, 09:21 PM
"Ford has tried several ways over the last 14+/- years to recapture it's lost marine market that GM has aquired due to their introduction of Electronic Fuel Injection into the marine market without any success. That was just one failed attempt."

TMC- Ford didn't lose the marine market to GM, they stopped producing marinized motors. If they had been competing, I would probably agree. There's no reason Ford couldn't have come up with an injected motor at the same time, other than the fact that they A) didn't want to develop one or B) someone else didn't develop one.

east tx skier
08-28-2006, 09:49 PM
Jim, GM doesn't marinize the motors, do they? Indmar, PCM, Mercruiser, or whoever does that, right? The way I was made to understand it, the reason behind the PCM-Ford split was that Ford was going to begin marinizing its own engines.

JimN
08-28-2006, 11:33 PM
The motors are shipped from GM as an assembly so if Indmar isn't changing the gaskets or anything else, then adding the transmission, harness, controls, etc, I would say the motor isn't built the same as the ones for a car or truck. GM actually has a marine division and Ford did in the past. Ford discontinued their marine applications in about '92. I've heard different versions of who does what to make them work in boats.

east tx skier
08-29-2006, 12:18 PM
Okay, that makes sense. As I understood it, Ford's last plan was to do the whole thing themselves, which led to PCM going chevy once they'd satisfied their purchase agreement from Ford in around 2001--2002.

JimN
08-29-2006, 02:36 PM
From what I heard, PCM went to GM after they used all of the Ford motors they had in stock. I had heard that Ford stopped making the motors in '92-'94. Whether Ford or PCM had them in stock, I don't know. The 351 (both the W and C) were good motors.

east tx skier
08-29-2006, 04:43 PM
PCM apparently had a commitment to keep buying the motors for a few years before they switched. I think they ran out some time in 2002. But I don't think Ford announced its plans to do its own marinization until around 2000 if I have my facts straight.

ski_king
08-29-2006, 04:58 PM
You can still buy a "new" Ford 351 short block from a few sources including skidim.com

east tx skier
08-29-2006, 05:46 PM
I think those are "while supplies last" kind of deals for the marine setups. My local dealer had a GT-40 block for sale until just recently. Unfortunately, it didn't have all the fuel injection components, intake, etc., or I might have been tempted to slap them on my motor.

sfitzgerald351
08-29-2006, 11:07 PM
thats kinda funny to picture... are you talking about a carbed GT-40 or a EFI GT-40 ??

I think it was a carbed version. This would have been back in 1993 or 1994.

DooSPX
08-29-2006, 11:25 PM
ha, sorry Scott, I PM'ed you without reading this.
Sorry man, LOL
so a carbed GT-40 headed 351 had more power than your 454? wow

east tx skier
08-29-2006, 11:28 PM
ha, sorry Scott, I PM'ed you without reading this.
Sorry man, LOL
so a carbed GT-40 headed 351 had more power than your 454? wow

Must've had some special mods.

DooSPX
08-29-2006, 11:31 PM
im planning doing a GT-40P, 1.7RR's, Performer, and a comp cams ground for 4X4 trucks. 1000-5000 with peak trq at 3K
or was considering upgrading to a 400sbc I have laying around.

DooSPX
08-29-2006, 11:31 PM
later on down the road anyway....

east tx skier
08-30-2006, 12:00 PM
I had similar plans. Acme came first. Then Perfect Pass GT40s were already there and an upgrade to the Ps wasn't in the cards. After the performer, I wanted for nothing more and decided to leave it be.