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RobT
08-22-2006, 10:09 AM
This is a repost of a post I accidentally put in general discussion instead of Team Talk Help.

First, let me say how helpful this forum is. I must of read a thousand posts. I have searched thoroughly but haven't found a problem like this. I have a 91 prostar with a 351 and 1:1 velvet drive. I bought this boat took it out and it ran great.. for about two hours, then the cooler went out.
I fixed that and now tranny fluid is pouring out the front of the starter as soon as rpm's get above 1000 or so. The cooler is new, the fluid coming out is not mixed with water. I replaced the front seal with a match from Napa , the same thing happened. I got a new one from SkiDim, installed today same problem. The tranny is not overfilled,it's like it's pumping it all out to empty. I get the level right run it for a couple minutes, then theres nothing on the stick. The cooler did go out before this, is it possible the water damaged something? I am fairly mechanical but have no idea of the inner workings of this tranny. this has been very frustrating, I 've had the boat about six weeks and have yet to ski behind it, any help will be appreciated. Thanks

east tx skier
08-22-2006, 10:29 AM
Welcome, Rob. I don't know what the answer is, but if it's alright with you, I'd like to move this thread to the Maintenance folder. I don't know how much traffic actually goes to the "TT Help" folder.

cwright
08-22-2006, 11:03 AM
RobT,

I feel your pain. Hang in there. Now that your post in in the maint section, you should get help from those who might know. I don't have a clue, but a couple of things come to mind.

I found a thread yesterday that I can't find this A.M. for you that had an 83 page tranny manual. It was on the MC TT site but it was actually a lind to Correct Craft who had all of these manuals available in pdf format. If having detailed schematics helps you, search on those key woords until you find that link. Sorry I didn't write it down.

A couple of other thoughts. Some parts that you think are not marine specific, may be. From your symptoms I would say something is slightly different with the cooler you put on, and an orifice ususally open is plugged off, or the other way around. Compare your replacement parts with the factory parts if possible, or take it to the dealers service team and ask them to fix it.

Good luck and let us know what you find.

88 PS190
08-22-2006, 11:14 AM
www.correctcraftfan.com/reference i'll post that again, sorry for the site its on.

but it has all the stuff that cwright is talking about.

very helpful for trans work. Is it possible that there is an inspection plug or a plug for the pressure system?

i'll start looking at my printed out version and check back later.

88 PS190
08-22-2006, 11:15 AM
quick thought is your pump leaking??

RobT
08-22-2006, 07:49 PM
quick thought is your pump leaking??
I don't really know about the pump leaking. I am thinking it's going past the front seal into the bell housing then leaking out the front of the starter. When I replaced the seal the housing had tranny fluid in it. Would the pump leak into the bell housing? As for the cooler it is a replacement from skidim , it looked identical to the one I removed.

Hunterb
08-23-2006, 12:42 PM
It's hard to see how the fluid could get into the bell housing unless it's going past the front seal. Is it possible that you put the wrong seal in or damaged it when installing? I have seen seals get knocked crooked during installation allowing fluid to pour through. I can't see how it has anything to do with the cooler because the fluid goes from the tranny to the cooler and back. There's no way for it to get to the bell housing without going through the front seal. At least I don't think there is but I have been wrong before.

Good luck ! Hope you figure it out.

Bruce

88 PS190
08-23-2006, 01:08 PM
Part 103 in the velvet drive manual is the pump gasket that sits between the pump and the case.

It appears and it seems that i remember it this way when i replaced the flex disk at the beginning of the last season that at the front of the tranny the pump attaches from the inside of the bell housing by sliding over the shaft and bolting up to the case (indexed to the direction you want to be Forwards) and that it bolts up to a gasket. I'd fear that if you really overheated it you could possibly have changed the dimension of the case or the pump so that the gasket is no longer sealing.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m298/hawkskier/untitled.jpg

88 PS190
08-23-2006, 01:08 PM
If that pump gasket would leak around the pump it would spew atf into the bell housing, under pressure.

RobT
08-23-2006, 04:16 PM
If that pump gasket would leak around the pump it would spew atf into the bell housing, under pressure.
I'll have to check that. When I had it out I didn't notice anything like that, but I wasn't looking for it either. It didn't overheat that I know of, the cooler broke inside and filled it up the transmission with water.
Thanks
As to the previous post, the seal I just replaced was from SkiDim and was the correct #. I could have got it in wrong, but three times in a row is unlikely even for me.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that type of oil seal(front) is not designed for pressure, is it? When I've seen them in cars, it's just to keep fluid in from splashing out and such. If that is the case, then the trans should still have fluid in it below the seal, but it's not registering on the stick. So from the diagrams provided(Thanks) I think it has to be either the pump gasket or the area behind the seal is being pressurized when it should not be due a broken trans component. I hate to pull this thing again (4th time) but I can't go to the dealer. It's a matter of pride and cheapness. Feel free to correct any erroneous assumptions.

88 PS190
08-23-2006, 10:00 PM
Yea end seals like that (like crank end seals on VW's can actually take a bit of pressure, not alot normally. I dunno, take a peak at the full manual on the link above and good luck.

If i were at home in chicago i'd stop in at our local Velvet Drive mechanic, great resource, he worked for Borg W back in the day, and has alot of improvements not just repairs but putting it the way that BW meant to and screwed up origionally.

When ours goes he will rebuild it for sure.

The one's he's done that i've heard are so much quieter and smoother than ours is, and most any other short of new boats that i've been in.

Its awesome stuff.

RobT
08-30-2006, 01:20 AM
In case anybody is reading this looking for help, I talked to a guy who specialises in these trannys.
He says it is:
bad worn or misinstalled seal
or
leaking o ring around the pump
or
worn or pitted shaft where the seal meets
or
output shaft not exactly aligned with prop shaft, shimmying the seal out.

RobT
10-06-2006, 10:47 AM
It turned out to be a brass piece was turned by having water in the tranny. This piece blocked off the fluid causing the fluid to blow the seal.

cwright
10-06-2006, 11:13 AM
Thanks for the follow up. A lot of these threads get started and we never really hear the final outcome. Closing the loop is helpful for all, and improves the quality for future searches on the subject. You must have had to pull the tranny?

Have you had it out and skiied it yet?

RobT
10-27-2006, 10:12 PM
I pulled it 3 or 4 times doing what different mechanics told me each time. Finally talked to a guy on the phone that rebuilds them all day long, he knew what it was in 5 seconds. Kind of irritating that the rep from the manufacture didn't tell me this before all this trouble, but if I wanted easy I'd rent a boat. No skiing yet, going to get a rebuilt tranny and put it in soon I hope. We can ski pretty much year round with a suit so all is not lost.