PDA

View Full Version : HDMI cable


Farmer Ted
07-30-2006, 12:11 PM
What's the scoop?

Is the $129 Monster Cable better than the $89 Belkin or the $59 Phoenix Gold?????

bigmac
07-30-2006, 12:26 PM
What's the scoop?

Is the $129 Monster Cable better than the $89 Belkin or the $59 Phoenix Gold?????

On a dollar-per-db signal loss comparison - no way. Monster makes good cables, but what they are best at is hype.

bcampbe7
07-30-2006, 12:36 PM
On a dollar-per-db signal loss comparison - no way. Monster makes good cables, but what they are best at is hype.


Ditto...........

JimN
07-30-2006, 02:31 PM
Ted- NO!. I hate using Munster Cable. Their power strips are nothing special, either. Audio Quest is another PITA. 24 AWG for the center conductor is BS. I happen to like Liberty cables and ends, myself. Thomas and Betts is really good, too. Check Parts Express for this stuff.

How far are you running it? If it's going through walls, ceilings, etc, run extra RG-59, too (like 6 of them or get some RG-59x5 bundle and add a couple of Cat 5e (or better). Orange Smurf tube is the easy way for this and you may want to include some speaker cables, too. The mini RG cable is a PITA to put ends on so RG-59 is a better choice. Don't bother with DVI for true HD, HDMI is the standard for that and everything else will be a free-for-all.

It would be nice if the EIA/CEG, etc could come up with a standard and stick with it.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
07-30-2006, 03:09 PM
On a dollar-per-db signal loss comparison - no way. Monster makes good cables, but what they are best at is hype.
I agree totally. At least for guitar stuff. I dont buy them for speaker cables or guitar cables. There are many other brands out there that are just as good or better for less money.

Farmer Ted
07-30-2006, 03:16 PM
Ted- NO!. I hate using Munster Cable. Their power strips are nothing special, either. Audio Quest is another PITA. 24 AWG for the center conductor is BS. I happen to like Liberty cables and ends, myself. Thomas and Betts is really good, too. Check Parts Express for this stuff.

How far are you running it? If it's going through walls, ceilings, etc, run extra RG-59, too (like 6 of them or get some RG-59x5 bundle and add a couple of Cat 5e (or better). Orange Smurf tube is the easy way for this and you may want to include some speaker cables, too. The mini RG cable is a PITA to put ends on so RG-59 is a better choice. Don't bother with DVI for true HD, HDMI is the standard for that and everything else will be a free-for-all.

It would be nice if the EIA/CEG, etc could come up with a standard and stick with it.


I'd like to get at least 2 meters.

I'm on the fence about getting digital cable, the TV has a card slot in the back so if I understand correctly I don't need the set-top box just the card.

the next purchase will be a HDMI dvd player, just looking for now.

any recommendations on DVD players?

stevo137
07-30-2006, 03:52 PM
Kimber is all I use for speakers, interconnects, and digital but the cable debate goes deep in audiophile circles. I still don't buy the thought that much of the cheap bulk cable is as good as some of the high end stuff. I have compared and have heard the difference in some.
As far as the DVD player goes, I am currently using an Integra DPS 7.2 and it's a lot of bang for the buck.

http://www.kimber.com/

JimN
07-30-2006, 10:02 PM
I like the Denon equipment and you can see what they do/specs/prices/dealer locator on their website. Their DVD players all have HDMI, with the possible exception of the cheapest one. I just bought one of theirs and although my set doesn't have that kind of input, it still looks and sounds good, even though I need to change the cables. I used ageneric A/V cable set when I first connected it and was very disappointed. Then, I switched to a pair of audio cables I made up with Stinger cable from AAMP of America and it made a huge difference. I have a set made from Liberty cable and ends that I'm going to change to and that will help. I used their stuff when I worked for a home integration contractor and we made up almost all of our cables, except HDMI and DMI.

For those of you who still play vinyl, Denon sells some really nice moving coil cartridges, too. I think they have about 8 diferent models. I have one of theirs (the 103d) and it still sounds really good but it's about due for replacement, too.

JimN
07-30-2006, 10:07 PM
As far as specs, I know someone who is a commercial audio/video contractor and he did TEF (Time/Energy/Frequency) analysis on a whole lot of different speaker cables- different gauges, brands, prices, etc. He found that in most applications, 16 ga is fine. Cheap audio cables are worth what they cost. The most expensive ones aren't. Those are mostly marketing and even Kimber Cable had some capacitive reactance problems in the past that caused some types of amps to blow up.

OhioProstar
07-31-2006, 10:59 AM
Jim is there a real gain going to HDMI rather than a good quality composite? I have the option to go to HDMI but since it would only be for the video feed (I run audio through fiber to my Denon amp) I never thought much about it.

JimN
07-31-2006, 12:59 PM
There is no "good quality composite". The order of video quality resolution, from low to high, is modulated RF, composite, component, DVI, HDMI. HDMI is going to be the standard for HD DVD and players will only be outputting 1080P through the HDMI, because Hollywood wants to keep people from copying. DVI will do 720, 540 and 480 lines but HDMI cables carry sound and DVI don't. The LCD and plasma displays are progressive by nature and a lot of them are actually ED, or Extended Definition, not HD. Part of what will look best for you has to do with whether the programming contains a lot of movement or not. Interlaced is better for moving video and progressive is better when it shows less movement. Also, 1080 is basically 540 interlaced with 540. I won't say that composite can't look good but it's not even as good as 480 due to the NTSC standard.

If you want your system to be more "future proof", the receiver or amp will need more HDMI inputs, will up-convert from other input resolution formats and and will have HDMI output to a monitor, maybe DVI (and whatever they come up with in the interim). As long as the control unit can up-convert to HDMI, you'll be fine

Are you running the video directly from the DVD to the display and swtching that instead of the amp? That works but is awkward when switching sources unless some kind of universal remote with macros is used.

east tx skier
07-31-2006, 01:02 PM
For those of you who still play vinyl, Denon sells some really nice moving coil cartridges, too. I think they have about 8 diferent models. I have one of theirs (the 103d) and it still sounds really good but it's about due for replacement, too.

Can you elaborate on what this is. I still have some vinyl, but don't know much about the nuts and bolts of my turntable.

sanjuan23
07-31-2006, 01:05 PM
So HDMI Carries the sound signal as well. I was under the impression that it was only video signal.

slink976
07-31-2006, 01:08 PM
I gotta go against you all on this. How ever I am going to be referencing home audio more then boat.

I used belkin to start, there was a small hummmmmmmm in the sound that was produced.

Switched to monster wiring all the way through my system and that made all the difference! Hum was gone and the sound was much more crisp, if that make sence.

But all this being said, I have really big ears! and I don't think i would be able to notice it on a boat due to back ground noise.

JimN
07-31-2006, 01:22 PM
Elaborate on 'moving coil cartridge'? There are two common types of cartridge now, moving magnet and moving coil, but in the dark ages (up to the '90s), there were three. Ceramic, like on a compact stereo, which sometimes need a nickel or quarter taped to the tonearm. Ceramic is dead. Never was good and could be thought of as a facing lathe for vinyl because of the way they ground the surface away after playing once. The theory behind magnetic cartridges is that, if you move a magnet near a coil of wire, it causes or induces an electrical current will to move in that wire. The original mono needle had one magnet mounted on the cantilever or stylus (the part with the sapphire or diamond tip) and this moved in/near the coil as the tip rode in the groove of the record. Works great but there's very little voltage so they had to add gain and EQ because the needle would jump out of the groove if the bass was too strong (check out RIAA compensation curve). Audiophiles (known as tweaks, audiopiles, etc) thought there could be a better way and came up with the stereo cartridge and it works on the same principal except the R & L magnets and coils are set approximately perpendicular to each other. Still wasn't good enough. Enter moving coil. Similar idea, they just reversed the positions of the magnets and coils. Even less output but, just like most single coil pickups have more high frequency content than larger sgl coil (like P-90) or humbuckers, more clarity than moving magnet and they came out with a 'moving coil phone preamp' to make up the difference, to be added inline with the regular phono preamp in the receiver or whatever was controlling the audio signal path.

If you have a samll number of albums, you won't like the prices of the moving coil cartridges. What kind of turntable is it?

JimN
07-31-2006, 01:47 PM
If you switched to the Monstercable and installed them with the arrow in the direction of the signal path (source toward amp), they just have electrostatic shielding. There's a third conductor in there and is connected to the braided shield at the amplifier end. If you ever see something called "quasi balanced", this is a good example. Balanced audio means that there's a positive conductor, a negative and a ground. The negative and ground don't touch and balanced is generally used in pro audio gear but is making inroads with consumer grade equipment because of it's better noise rejection due to the ground shield that surrounds the +/- conductors. RCA type cables aren't the best way to move signal because you really don't want a signal conductor to be directly exposed to interference and the braided shield is a signal conductor in this case. It's just that RCA was very powerful at the time and they got their way. Balanced audio is also a low impedance signal path and because of this, the signal can be transferred over much greater distances before audible degradation occurs.

The reason "quasi balanced" works is that the interferance goes into the third lead, sometimes called the "sink" and since the chassis of the amp is electrically grounded, the sink is grounded, too. This means that the noise goes directly to ground and is either inaudible or much less audible. If the sink was attached to the audio - at the DVD, CD or other player, the noise would return because the cable is basically an antenna and the longer the cable, the better the reception of unwanted signals from motors, lighting, transformers, cell phones or other sources.

Boat or home- it doesn't matter. Electrostatic grounding is the way to go in all "unbalanced" audio signal path. The best configuration for unbalanced sudio it where the +/- wires are twisted around each other (called "twisted pair") and there is a shield around them. This is because the current flows through the + in the opposite direction of the - and because there is always a magnetic field surrounding a conductor carrying current, the equal and opposite fields cancel each other.

If you measure resistance from the shield to ground on a good car amplifier, it's high, in order to keep the noise level as low as possible. The head unit is the center of a car audion system, not the amp and in this kind of system, the cable's sink lead should be attached to the head unit's case but the power supply grounds still need to be electrically equally connected to the battery terminal and the battery +/_ are the reference points for all power supply connections.

Farmer Ted
07-31-2006, 06:22 PM
Found this place, unfreakin believable!

$6.37 for an HDMI cable

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024004&p_id=2412&seq=1&format=2

east tx skier
07-31-2006, 06:25 PM
Elaborate on 'moving coil cartridge'? There are two common types of cartridge now, moving magnet and moving coil, but in the dark ages (up to the '90s), there were three. Ceramic, like on a compact stereo, which sometimes need a nickel or quarter taped to the tonearm. Ceramic is dead. Never was good and could be thought of as a facing lathe for vinyl because of the way they ground the surface away after playing once. The theory behind magnetic cartridges is that, if you move a magnet near a coil of wire, it causes or induces an electrical current will to move in that wire. The original mono needle had one magnet mounted on the cantilever or stylus (the part with the sapphire or diamond tip) and this moved in/near the coil as the tip rode in the groove of the record. Works great but there's very little voltage so they had to add gain and EQ because the needle would jump out of the groove if the bass was too strong (check out RIAA compensation curve). Audiophiles (known as tweaks, audiopiles, etc) thought there could be a better way and came up with the stereo cartridge and it works on the same principal except the R & L magnets and coils are set approximately perpendicular to each other. Still wasn't good enough. Enter moving coil. Similar idea, they just reversed the positions of the magnets and coils. Even less output but, just like most single coil pickups have more high frequency content than larger sgl coil (like P-90) or humbuckers, more clarity than moving magnet and they came out with a 'moving coil phone preamp' to make up the difference, to be added inline with the regular phono preamp in the receiver or whatever was controlling the audio signal path.

If you have a samll number of albums, you won't like the prices of the moving coil cartridges. What kind of turntable is it?

Sony. And yes, just a small number of Albums, Beatles Rubber Soul through Let it Be (by release date). I didn't appreciate their remastering for CD much.

BigBarney
07-31-2006, 06:44 PM
SanJuan,

HDMI is video only.

FYI guys, make sure that your TV accepts HDMI. I have everything in HDMI going to my amp. But my TV is an older model HDTV, and only accepts RCA, S-video, & component. I did run fiber optic from my satellite to the amp for audio. Noticeable improvement to say the least.

Farmer Ted
07-31-2006, 06:46 PM
SanJuan,

HDMI is video only.

FYI guys, make sure that your TV accepts HDMI. I have everything in HDMI going to my amp. But my TV is an older model HDTV, and only accepts RCA, S-video, & component. I did run fiber optic from my satellite to the amp for audio. Noticeable improvement to say the least.



High-Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI) is the first industry-supported, UNCOMPRESSED audio/video interface. This cable connects HDMI devices for DVD, satellite boxes, LCD, projectors, plasma and HDTVs. HDMI provides an interface between any HDMI-enabled audio/video source, such as a set-top box, DVD player, and A/V receiver and an audio and/or video monitor or projector.

HDMI supports standard, enhanced, or high-definition video, plus multi-channel digital audio on a single cable. It transmits all ATSC HDTV standards and supports 8-channel digital audio, with bandwidth to spare to accommodate future enhancements and requirements.

east tx skier
07-12-2007, 06:21 PM
Somewhat on topic ...

As I'm finding out, not only will you need a monitor/tv that accepts HDMI, but it will also have to be a HDCP compliant device. If not, all of your new HDDVDs or BluRays are probably not going to show up on it or will be downgrade in quality. I suspect the former.

I'm dealing with this currently as my eight year old Mitsubishi can display HD at 1080i, but only via component (YPbPr) or 15 pin RGB. I've been messing with a Playstation 3, trying to get it to upscale SD-DVDs to 1080i. Bottom line, it won't do it unless it's via HDMI. And as it turns out, I'll have the same problem with BluRay discs (or worse, they won't display at all).

So far, I have three options on the older dvds. (1) Settle for 480p. (2) rip 'em and burn 'em (or possibly stream them through a media server on my desktop (but I don't know if they'll upscale this way) as doing this will get rid of the copy protection. (3) The slightly more expensive option is to pick up the HDMI to RGB converter with built in HDCP stripper. I'm going to try the latter route and hope that the DVD Forum and powers that be don't worry too much about this technology and start blocking the authorization key for this device.

This Mitsubishi has been a great set and the fact that the CRT isn't limited to one native resolution has made for some great picture quality, even at SD. It still looks better than the 766p native LCD that we have downstairs. Plus, it'd be a biatch to dispose of.

JimN
07-12-2007, 07:11 PM
Did this thread have an alarm on it so it wouldn't go over a year without a new post?

Don'tcha just love the incompatibility issues with this stuff? I really enjoy dealing with it, myself. If the "powers that be" would get their heads out of their you-know-whats, it would be possible to: A) know what works with what, B) connect equipment efficiently and in a practical manner and C) get the picture and audio quality we pay for.

Scot
07-12-2007, 08:27 PM
Regarding HDMI and anyone that is still holding off buying the LCD or Plasma.... If you want to "future Proof" for the next gen of TV's, get one that has HDMI 1.3..... Check out this link.... it can explain it way better than me.
http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx#hdmi_1.3

BTW today there is only one manufacturer, Samsung, that has an available HDMI 1.3 set. So basically every TV, with the execption of two, that you see in Best Buy today are obsolete...

Today, as far as I know, PS3 is the only compatible HDMI 1.3 gear and there is NOTHING today that takes advantage of the newer technology. (even the PS3) However there is better visual content on the horizon...... and HDMI 1.3 is the only way to get there.....:twocents:

Leroy
07-12-2007, 08:29 PM
The High-Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI) is an all-digital audio/video interface capable of transmitting uncompressed streams.

It's digital, it either works or it doesn't.


For analog signals the cable really can make a difference....not that I think Monster is anything special other than they have Monster profits on what they sale!

CBergerson
07-12-2007, 08:57 PM
The High-Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI) is an all-digital audio/video interface capable of transmitting uncompressed streams.

It's digital, it either works or it doesn't.


For analog signals the cable really can make a difference....not that I think Monster is anything special other than they have Monster profits on what they sale!

I bought my HDMI cables for around $10/each on eBay. If you pay any more than that, you are wasting your money. I think that my sound and picture quality is outstanding.

Like Leroy stated, it is a digital signal.

Leroy
07-12-2007, 09:06 PM
Agree Chad, I see them for mega bucks and also at $5-$10....

phecksel
07-12-2007, 11:20 PM
A year later!!!!

Cable shmable.

www.partsexpress.com

Do not fall into the speaker cable trap. Properly sized Friggin zip cord is as good as the $$$/foot crap. Just for fun, I made my own speaker cable from CAT5 cable. It was a fun experiment, but literally didn't make one bit of difference.

JimN
07-12-2007, 11:33 PM
If you did the braided Cat5e thing that some guy did a whole blog about, some amps really hate the added capacitance. Kimber Cables had real problems with blowing up high end amps in the late '70s/early '80s, due to that. OTOH, the amps should have been built to handle any load but that's just my opinion. In their quest to have a "straight wire with gain", they have a tendency to build equipment that isn't durable, reliable or worth what is charged for it.

I'm going on the record as saying that high end audio and most of the people involved in it are a PITA. Also, most of them are full of crap. Saying that something sounds 'chocolatey' is just idiotic. I'm not trying to hit "The Brown Note".

Speaker cable that comes on a skinny spool (Carol) is a royal PITA because it likes to coil itself up as it's being stripped off to make the runs. I know someone who did TEF (Time-Energy-Frequency) analysis on speaker wire and his results showed that unless the run was over 60', 16 AWG is fine. If the amp is capable of extremely high current output, heavier won't hurt.

Audio cables do make a difference but some of the high-end stuff is just stoopid. I saw a 6' set with XLR ends for $4900.00

No, I didn't misplace the decimal.

Cheap cables suck. When I first plugged my DVD player in, I listened and considered returning it. Then, I thought about the fact that I was using the cables from my VCR and switched to the ones my CD player had been connected through. Much better, not stupid money but definitely better sound. I won't use the ones that come with equipment, nor will I use the $6.95 set that's 6' long. Munster ain't gonna happen in my system but Liberty, Planet Waves, Belden and Genesis cable are very good.

east tx skier
07-12-2007, 11:34 PM
Regarding HDMI and anyone that is still holding off buying the LCD or Plasma.... If you want to "future Proof" for the next gen of TV's, get one that has HDMI 1.3..... Check out this link.... it can explain it way better than me.
http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx#hdmi_1.3

BTW today there is only one manufacturer, Samsung, that has an available HDMI 1.3 set. So basically every TV, with the execption of two, that you see in Best Buy today are obsolete...

Today, as far as I know, PS3 is the only compatible HDMI 1.3 gear and there is NOTHING today that takes advantage of the newer technology. (even the PS3) However there is better visual content on the horizon...... and HDMI 1.3 is the only way to get there.....:twocents:

Well, I'll be stripping whatever HDMI 1.3 has to offer from my ps3 and shooting it to analog component 1080i. Whoohoooo! 8p As for the sound, that'll be traveling over fiber optic.

JimN
07-12-2007, 11:46 PM
If someone wants to future proof their installation, the only thing that will work is to install a raceway or smurf tube so new cabling can replace what used to work. The consumer electronics industry couldn't set a standard and stick to it if their collective lives depended on it. 44.1K sampling rate was the "standard" when CDs first came out. Then, people noticed that they sounded harsh, due to the "brick wall" filters used to remove harmonics. MP2, MP3, MP4, FLAC, WAV, etc. are mostly used for computer/internet use but why call it a standard if it's going to be dead in 6 months. IEEE, NAB and some of the other engineering associations come up with standards, based on testing, not marketing. That's the way it should be done, not finding the latest gimmick.

east tx skier
07-13-2007, 01:12 AM
I'm not trying to future proof mine. I'm just trying to get it to keep on plugging as time marches on around it. At eight years old, it still has a better picture than a lot of the newer displays I've seen. For the price tag in 1999, it ought to.

east tx skier
07-13-2007, 11:35 AM
Jim, past HDMI, what's the future hold? What will make HDMI obsolete?

JimN
07-13-2007, 11:52 AM
Direct to the brain, or DTTB. No need for wires, software updates will be totally unnecessary. Just a box on a shelf, a display on a wall and.....

The odd thing about HD and the different resolutions is that 720p is the highest resolution as a complete video field (each frame is usually two fields- one for chroma and one for luminance). 1080i is just two "fields" of 540 interlaced and the frame rate needs to be high enough to look like they're showing at the same time.

Personally, component video is more useful as a general method of sending video to multiple locations and unless the source is HD, like most DVDs aren't, 1080p is just a goal. Cable and satellite are 1080i and DVDs are usually 480P, so the most commonly viewed sources aren't at the best resolution.

It's a crap shoot.

Sodar
07-13-2007, 11:53 AM
Well, I'll be stripping whatever HDMI 1.3 has to offer from my ps3 and shooting it to analog component 1080i. Whoohoooo! 8p As for the sound, that'll be traveling over fiber optic.

ETS, why are you going to analog?

east tx skier
07-13-2007, 12:04 PM
ETS, why are you going to analog?

Older TV. Only has HD-15 Component or RCA Component (both analog) inputs for DTV/1080i. PS3 will upscale SD-DVDs and older games, but only through HDMI. The PS3 will also play BluRay discs, but will only display them in HD via HDMI because of HDCP (High Definition Copy Protection). Actually, I think the PS3 games must not have HDCP as I can output them via component. I suspect they are scaled down to 480p though.

So if I want to watch HD movies or upscale my SD-DVDs, I have to use a converter that will go from HDMI to HD-15, then use an HD-15 to Component RCA. The box is also an HDCP stripper because my eight year old Mitsubishi not only predates HDMI, but also predates the notion that a monitor/TV had to be HDCP compliant. That is to say that you can have a TV with an HDMI in, but if it doesn't have an authentication key that enables it to "handshake" with the player, newer media, i.e., HD-DVD and BluRay, won't show up on it.

Still cheaper than buying a new big screen though.

JimN
07-13-2007, 12:06 PM
It's a crap shoot. AKA NOBODY KNOWS! Every year, CES shows all of the new things that will make people drool and every year they add things most people will never use, want, need or understand.

Just being digital doesn't make things better. Unless the resolution and refresh rate are high enough and they get the look of the background right, analog signals are great. Analog is continuous, which makes it look smoother. With analog, you'll never have "pixilation", "tiling" or anything like that, without having had a digital signal cause it in the first place.

Here's a good link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/720p

east tx skier
07-13-2007, 12:10 PM
D
The odd thing about HD and the different resolutions is that 720p is the highest resolution as a complete video field (each frame is usually two fields- one for chroma and one for luminance). 1080i is just two "fields" of 540 interlaced and the frame rate needs to be high enough to look like they're showing at the same time.

Personally, component video is more useful as a general method of sending video to multiple locations and unless the source is HD, like most DVDs aren't, 1080p is just a goal. Cable and satellite are 1080i and DVDs are usually 480P, so the most commonly viewed sources aren't at the best resolution.

It's a crap shoot.

I think its 48 fps for 1080i at least for film so as to prevent flicker (since it's not progressive).

Aren't dvds 480i?

I thought that cable and satellite was typically 720p? The output settings may be variable, but I thought 720p was the cheapest to send over the wire.

Found it interesting reading that on larger tvs, i.e. 50" Plasmas, with native resolutions of 768p, it may actually be not as good of picture to send a 1080i signal. Not so important on 37" displays like my lcd (same native res).

My Mits has no 720p or 760p capability. So it's either 1080i up there or 480p (automatic line doubling on the display).

I've got the PS3 set to output at 1080i only (and NTSC 480i, which can't be turned off). Anything the TV doesn't recognize as 1080i is automatically downscaled to 480p, which doesn't exactly look bad. I guess that's why I've had it for eight years and never really bothered to work to hard until this week to push a HD signal through it.

Sodar
07-13-2007, 12:11 PM
Older TV. Only has HD-15 Component or RCA Component (both analog) inputs for DTV/1080i. PS3 will upscale SD-DVDs and older games, but only through HDMI. The PS3 will also play BluRay discs, but will only display them in HD via HDMI because of HDCP (High Definition Copy Protection). Actually, I think the PS3 games must not have HDCP as I can output them via component. I suspect they are scaled down to 480p though.

So if I want to watch HD movies or upscale my SD-DVDs, I have to use a converter that will go from HDMI to HD-15, then use an HD-15 to Component RCA. The box is also an HDCP stripper because my eight year old Mitsubishi not only predates HDMI, but also predates the notion that a monitor/TV had to be HDCP compliant. That is to say that you can have a TV with an HDMI in, but if it doesn't have an authentication key that enables it to "handshake" with the player, newer media, i.e., HD-DVD and BluRay, won't show up on it.

Still cheaper than buying a new big screen though.

Got it. Thanks.

east tx skier
07-13-2007, 12:14 PM
It's a crap shoot. AKA NOBODY KNOWS! Every year, CES shows all of the new things that will make people drool and every year they add things most people will never use, want, need or understand.

Just being digital doesn't make things better. Unless the resolution and refresh rate are high enough and they get the look of the background right, analog signals are great. Analog is continuous, which makes it look smoother. With analog, you'll never have "pixilation", "tiling" or anything like that, without having had a digital signal cause it in the first place.

Here's a good link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/720p



I guess it's digital until it gets to the svideo, right. Dish Network.

Of course, the light that goes into the digital camera lens is analog. It's like music (apart from midi), it's all analog at the strings or reed).

Just read that link. Interesting stuff. Still learning (always learning).

Scot
07-13-2007, 12:22 PM
I'm not trying to future proof mine. I'm just trying to get it to keep on plugging as time marches on around it. At eight years old, it still has a better picture than a lot of the newer displays I've seen. For the price tag in 1999, it ought to.

ETS, I too own a 6 year old Mistsu. (46 WS). It has been the best purchase and the PQ is still great! I wasn't even shopping for a new TV until Santa delivered a PS3... I then wanted to get that "pop" I saw in all the stores that were showing the Blue Ray and HD DVD's. It then turned into a must have. Unfortunetly, all of the 1080p's were out of my price range in December. Until now!

You are correct in that the PQ on the Rear Projection is in many cases better than the pixalization crap you see on many LCD's. Especially when you are watching a standard def broadcast, the PQ can down right stink in comparison. But I went ahead and purchased the Sammy 40 inch and (non HDMI 1.3) and I am loving it.... The LCD's are getting better, quicker in that the refresh time is getting lower and lower. NOT ALL LCD's ARE CREATED EQUAL!

Anyway, my comment on "future proofing" was aimed at all of the soon to be obsolete Tv's hanging up in the stores today. In the next few months, and getting closer to Christmas, every TV that is non-1080p will be discounted and moved out.... And then all of the people that bought them will soon find out that when they get a BR or HD DVD player it aint gonna work. (as good as it could) They will be stuck with the last version of the latest generation of TV's.

I guess I got off track of the original HDMI question.....

east tx skier
07-13-2007, 12:31 PM
ETS, I too own a 6 year old Mistsu. (46 WS). It has been the best purchase and the PQ is still great! I wasn't even shopping for a new TV until Santa delivered a PS3... I then wanted to get that "pop" I saw in all the stores that were showing the Blue Ray and HD DVD's. It then turned into a must have. Unfortunetly, all of the 1080p's were out of my price range in December. Until now!

You are correct in that the PQ on the Rear Projection is in many cases better than the pixalization crap you see on many LCD's. Especially when you are watching a standard def broadcast, the PQ can down right stink in comparison. But I went ahead and purchased the Sammy 40 inch and (non HDMI 1.3) and I am loving it.... The LCD's are getting better, quicker in that the refresh time is getting lower and lower. NOT ALL LCD's ARE CREATED EQUAL!

Anyway, my comment on "future proofing" was aimed at all of the soon to be obsolete Tv's hanging up in the stores today. In the next few months, and getting closer to Christmas, every TV that is non-1080p will be discounted and moved out.... And then all of the people that bought them will soon find out that when they get a BR or HD DVD player it aint gonna work. (as good as it could) They will be stuck with the last version of the latest generation of TV's.

I guess I got off track of the original HDMI question.....

Generally, I've been pretty happy with our little LCD. It's Westinghouse, which, if I understand correctly, is rebranded RCA. I'm hoping it's HDCP compliant, but if not, I'll just keep watching BluRay upstairs with "converter." Fortunately, we're not due to replace the 27" CRT in the bedroom with the latest and greatest until the money tree sprouts in a few years. The LCD we have was a comprimise between me and my wife. She wanted a TV in the living room. I (very out of character for me) wanted one room in the house without a TV. The compromise ... it has to hang on the wall and be flat.

So far, the picture quality has been very good, even with SD satellite broadcasts. But the 55" Mits is still our main movie machine.