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View Full Version : Barefooting speeds


h2oskier
07-21-2006, 10:35 PM
Need some adice on spped for barefooting.
I am 230# and a novice footer, I am trying to learn the tumble turn off the boom with a rope extension. I am currently going about 40 mph.

I am also trying to teach my kids. They are off the boom. I am trying various methods like kneeboard and kicking off a ski. They weigh about 100#.

I have also been trying to make sure they get sking fundementals down. Should they be accomplished in other areas of sking prior to barefooting?

#47of100TeamMC
07-21-2006, 11:04 PM
a general rule of thumb for barefooting. take the skier's weight/10 +20. so for you 230/10=23, 23+20=43mph.

tumble turns can be done and maybe easier a few mph slower than your desired footing speed.

Barefooting really doesn't relate to any other form of skiing. it's in a league all of it's own. just make sure you "hunker" (stay low) bend those knees. not only for posture but also it's a shorter distance to fall the lower you are:D . your thighs should basically be parallel to the water. knees together. heels almost behind the knees(so the angle your leg makes at the knee is less than 90deg.) good luck, keep the tylenol in the boat.

Toes up!
Chris

T Scott
07-21-2006, 11:10 PM
IMO 43mph on the boom seems fast for him. 43mph is probably necessary for long line, but the boom provides additional lift which allows you to slow down a bit. I am 215 lbs and can foot as slow as 36-38mph on the boom (with 5 foot line) with good form.

tex
07-21-2006, 11:33 PM
Need some adice on spped for barefooting.
I am 230# and a novice footer, I am trying to learn the tumble turn off the boom with a rope extension. I am currently going about 40 mph.

On the pig tail, you should be fine at that speed.
I am also trying to teach my kids. They are off the boom. I am trying various methods like kneeboard and kicking off a ski. They weigh about 100#.

Try taking the bindings of a wakeboard. It's easier than a KB for kids.I have also been trying to make sure they get sking fundementals down. Should they be accomplished in other areas of sking prior to barefooting?

Teach them to foot right...and it will make them better skiers.

JohnnyB
07-23-2006, 06:48 PM
The Weight/10 + 20 is a long-line formula. Like others said, you can drop as much as 4mph on the boom. With good form, you can long-line slower than that as well......I did a 1mi lap around our lake at 32mph (wife wasn't watching the speed).....you do the math.

I was trying to teach my niece and my cousin to foot off the boom this weekend....I was demoing to them at anywhere between 30 and 36mph.

I'll throw a new problem on the table.....was trying to get them to start "superman" and then spin on their hip to their butt facing forward. Both were getting stuck at 90deg quite a bit. I was coaching them that it was one motion all the way around and you had to drive forward with your underside knee......don't know how to get them out of this issue....their both teen girls, so I'm wondering if they don't have the upper body strength and we should try the kneeboard sit off the boom.

CoFooter
07-24-2006, 11:32 AM
When you are doing the tumble up off the boom, have them go from a forward dragging position and roll over to their back, then pivot around to the front. Sounds like they are hanging up on their hip and getting stuck because their butt (lower back) is not flat on the water. If their butt is flat, this should take very little strength to come around. Try this at about 20 to 25 MPH. Once they are around have them glide on their butt and gently place their feet in as you increase speed. Also, this is actually more difficult to tumble up if the boom is really high, try your boom at a medium height.

captain planet
07-24-2006, 12:07 PM
The Weight/10 + 20 is a long-line formula. Like others said, you can drop as much as 4mph on the boom. With good form, you can long-line slower than that as well......I did a 1mi lap around our lake at 32mph (wife wasn't watching the speed).....you do the math.

I was trying to teach my niece and my cousin to foot off the boom this weekend....I was demoing to them at anywhere between 30 and 36mph.

I'll throw a new problem on the table.....was trying to get them to start "superman" and then spin on their hip to their butt facing forward. Both were getting stuck at 90deg quite a bit. I was coaching them that it was one motion all the way around and you had to drive forward with your underside knee......don't know how to get them out of this issue....their both teen girls, so I'm wondering if they don't have the upper body strength and we should try the kneeboard sit off the boom.

WOW, did you write this for me? I have the same situation with my niece and my wife's cousin (both 13 years old). Neither of them can get around to ride on their butts with their feet out in front. Part of it is I think they lack the upper body strength and part of it is they are scared to get into that position because then they know they will have to try to stand up. I have thought that lowering the boom would help but they are soooooo close to getting it I think that the scared factor may be the over-riding reason for this problem. I will lower the boom next time and see what happens. Thanks.

JohnnyB
07-24-2006, 12:32 PM
When you are doing the tumble up off the boom, have them go from a forward dragging position and roll over to their back, then pivot around to the front. Sounds like they are hanging up on their hip and getting stuck because their butt (lower back) is not flat on the water. If their butt is flat, this should take very little strength to come around. Try this at about 20 to 25 MPH. Once they are around have them glide on their butt and gently place their feet in as you increase speed. Also, this is actually more difficult to tumble up if the boom is really high, try your boom at a medium height.

I'm not following you.....I'm assuming you're talking about doing this with a 5ft handle section as opposed to hanging onto the boom directly. I'd like to get them to stand off the boom and get comfortable in a 3pt and eventually standing this way before going to the 5ft section. I may opt for sitting on the knee board or going to a "swing" like the e-z footer apparatus that Sipel vends and others on the site have used.

3event
07-24-2006, 12:35 PM
I haven't tossed my 11yr old on the boom yet, but the day is coming... What about those training slings that hang from the boom? They look pretty easy to use, but driver has to stay on top of things.

Anyone try kneeboard starts off the boom for young ones? I would be really impressed if the young 'uns could learn the tumble up from the get go!

I have had a few guys in their 30s learn over the past couple of years. With no patience and not a lot of time to spare, they shimmy out on the boom while underway, swing the feet under, and plant em. 2 of them learned just fine that way, the 3rd created quite a spectacle, the method is not for everyone!

chudson
07-24-2006, 12:49 PM
[I'll throw a new problem on the table.....was trying to get them to start "superman" and then spin on their hip to their butt facing forward. Both were getting stuck at 90deg quite a bit. I was coaching them that it was one motion all the way around and you had to drive forward with your underside knee......don't know how to get them out of this issue....their both teen girls, so I'm wondering if they don't have the upper body strength and we should try the kneeboard sit off the boom.]


When doing a tumble up start from a rope handle off the boom, after they have rolled over on their back they need to make sure they pull the handle to their hips to spin around! Haven't heard you say they are doing that.

DanC
07-24-2006, 12:56 PM
If you are getting stuck at 90 degrees on your tumble turn, it is not about upper body strength, it is about geometry and leverage. Like chudson says, pull the handle to the hip (and a little lower then the hip will bring it around faster) and keep your leading hip up.

CoFooter
07-24-2006, 12:59 PM
I'm not following you.....I'm assuming you're talking about doing this with a 5ft handle section as opposed to hanging onto the boom directly. I'd like to get them to stand off the boom and get comfortable in a 3pt and eventually standing this way before going to the 5ft section. I may opt for sitting on the knee board or going to a "swing" like the e-z footer apparatus that Sipel vends and others on the site have used.

I am referring to directly on the boom. When they roll over their wrists will be crossed until they come around. It's really pretty easy. The key is keeping the hips from dragging. The leading edge of the hip (in the direction you are turning) needs to stay off the water and you'll be surprised how easy it is to come around.

If you want to use the e-z footer method, just use a slalom handle and wrap it around the boom. Remember to wrap it around enough so the skiers butt is off the water when the boat is standing still. Have the skier put their feet in at about 10-15 MPH and increase from there to 20-25 max. Taught my daugter this way when she was 8. One other thing, make sure they keep their arms extended. If they are bent at the elbow there is a chance they be pushed into the boom (face first) if they catch a toe. Other than that this is really safe if the driver is paying attention

Rockman
07-24-2006, 01:37 PM
The EZ footer by BI is what we have and used for people aged 6 years old to adults. It is ok for getting someone used to the feel of footing but once they can do that, get them to the boom quickly, just on their feet.

If the person is having trouble getting their hip around when trying the "superman" start, have them hang over the boom and then once the boat is up to speed, put their feet in and slowly and let their arms out. What I mean here is that the person would be facing forward, with their armpits on the boom and feet dragging. This can work for small kids and some adults but if the person does not have at least the strength to support his / her weight, the person will become tired easily.

Using a kneeboard off the boom is ok...just watch the amount of spray coming off the boat because this can make the situation difficult in teaching a first time footer. Sometimes the kneeboards are hard to balance if the person does not have good balance.

Like everyone else said, the boom speeds are definitely slower than the calculation comes out to be. If you are getting alot of spray off the boom, then you are going too slow, or if you are sinking! :eek3:

CoFooter
07-24-2006, 02:19 PM
One thing I forgot to mention that is a super easy boom start is a cable start. Have them hold on to the boom in a forward position and hook one or both feet over the cable going to the bow. Once they are planing on their butt/lowerback, take the feet off and set them in the water as boat speed increases. When we teach beginners we lower the boom for the start and three point by shifting weight (people) to the boom side of the boat until the boat speed begins to increase, and then raise the boom by shifting weight to the other side once they are standing. This eliminates a lot of the bounce during the starts and three points. Good luck!

chudson
07-25-2006, 10:29 AM
Watch Keith St.Onge in the " Keith St.Onge cool video#1 " he does a tumble up from the rope off the boom, course he makes it look so simple.
http://www.barefootcentral.com/cool.htm

3event
08-07-2006, 11:33 AM
Another training success - friend that we see 1/year, he skis very rarely, no access to boat, lives far from us.

Dragged from the boom , then pulled his legs around and stood up first try !! We were all stoked and he was thrilled. Thanks to experience and lots of great tips here on TMC, I am getting to be quite a trainer:D . Or at least the best trainer my friends know.... may not be saying a lot.....

krseitz
08-08-2006, 04:41 PM
For the kids...

I've found that a wakeboard without bindings is a great learning tool. You can use the same technique as the kneeboard but the wakeboard is much more stable. Also the wakeboard is narrow enough that the kids don't struggle with tying to turn around and sit down on the kneeboard or have their legs spread so far apart when they plant their feet. Good luck!

3event
08-08-2006, 05:33 PM
That's a good tip !! I think I can buy back my old board from the dude I sold it to - he has long since moved up. That would be perfect!!

I can always pop the bindings off my son's board and see how it works.

We are teaching lots of folks new stuff this year so I am lovin' the help from Team Talk....:D

mess33
08-08-2006, 05:33 PM
I have been working with my kids on the swing and was contemplating the next step. I think I will put them on the kneeboard and see how that works. They love the swing.

mess

tex
08-08-2006, 08:41 PM
Wakeboards work great.

Speed....Give em the whole fricken fruit stand!

atlfootr
08-08-2006, 09:11 PM
Watch Keith St.Onge in the " Keith St.Onge cool video#1 " he does a tumble up from the rope off the boom, course he makes it look so simple. That's because IT IS! :rolleyes:

milkmania
08-08-2006, 09:45 PM
Watch Keith St.Onge in the " Keith St.Onge cool video#1 " he does a tumble up from the rope off the boom, course he makes it look so simple.
http://www.barefootcentral.com/cool.htm

look at the wake of the boat beside them that's shooting the video from a different angle.....

non existent!:eek3: