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bigmac
07-14-2006, 10:23 AM
As of about 2 months ago, a competing ski boat dealer has opened in our little area (a dealer for the number one seller of inboard ski-boats). I'm intrigued by the interest this has generated among the people I know who are in the market for such a boat, despite my advice that MasterCraft is probably better. These people look at the prices, look at the admittedly glitzier boat design aspects (such as flip-up seats instead of the old chinese-puzzle method MasterCraft uses), and then are pretty much blown away by the very impressive DVD that this mfgr provides, AND then their very nicely bound brochure, which kind of makes MasterCraft's brochure look more like a pamphlet.

What does MC have in the way of marketing that I'm missing in trying to direct my friends and acquaintances who in in the market for a $50,000 ski boat?

jkski
07-14-2006, 10:32 AM
MC has some of the best marketing materials out there, in my opinion. From the current brochure with the "hammered metal" appearance cover (the same as the boat interior), to the great videos they put together. If your local dealer does not have these itmes available, shoot me a PM and I'll get my dealer to send you some, or I am sure one of the dealers on the board here will be along quickly with the same offer.
In any case, MC has some great stuff that will blow away anyone elses.

Alteczen
07-14-2006, 10:34 AM
I'm not sure what mfg you're speaking of but I haven't seen a MC competitor put out a better brochure. The full mc brochure is top notch imo. What brand are you talking about?

Also - high end boats aren't for everyone. Some people will never put that much money into a new boat when they "think" they can get the same thing for thousands less. Many people look only at what you can see and base their judgement. It isn't until they've owned the boat for a few years that things fall apart and/or break and they find out that the quality of the build is just as, if not more, important.

In addition, while you have to pay more for a mc you have to consider the total cost of ownership. MC's have the least amount of depreciation year over year compared to the competition. More than likely you will sell that boat at some point and how much of that you regain depends on your model and brand. What's the result of this? A splash of marketing but it has to even more with the quality of the boat that makes it hold value over time.

JimN
07-14-2006, 10:36 AM
Are they buying marketing items or a boat? The boat is what they'll be driving and skiing behind, the other stuff is for looking at. The hinged seats are nice but I have seen them damaged by someone who couldn't figure out how to close them properly. They're going to need to go out for a demo ride anyway, so they should make their decision then, not based on a pretty, shiny disc or "nicely bound brochure". Do those make for a better boat? I think not.

jkski
07-14-2006, 10:39 AM
The proof is there to see....anyone who is serious should take the time to tour the factories and they will quickly see why you pay a bit more for the MC, but it is well worth it.

ski_king
07-14-2006, 10:49 AM
I got ahold of one of MC brochures this year and was bloiwn away by it. It was top notch.
I know if I was to get a simular brochure for my business made, it would cost me at least $15 apiece to have them printed (yes, much lower qty).

The only thing they could have done better in my opinon is include the 2006 dvd in with the brochure. (well, bring back and include a stars and stripes model also)

ntidsl
07-14-2006, 10:51 AM
Well...this is a tough subject...and every market is different...don't harass this guy for bringing a valid point...in his area obviously the competing dealer is kicking the mc dealer's butt...its the same case is my area...I am going on a trip to Norris lake next weekend with the competing dealer...why? because its fun, lots of fun, and the people are just like us...very passionate about their boats and skiing...question is..why doesn't the local MC dealer do a trip like this??? because the dealer doesnt know how to market...its not MC...its the dealer...thats all thats to it...

Norris lake, on a side point, is probably less than 100 miles from the MC plant...and my god if you see 1 MC for every boat down there its a good day...another boat line...they are every where...especailly when they host weekends like this...lets see 150 boats all the same brand, partying like rock stars, stereos cranking, young girls everywhere, hmmm, free wings and coronas...thats marketing...lol...

other lakes maybe different, I dont know...but if I were 20 years old debating a boat and wasnt smart enough to favor hand layed fiberglass, etc...I'd be victim of marketing which some dealers need to do more...

skitilldark
07-14-2006, 10:53 AM
However, I do wish MasterCraft would concentrate on upgrading the dealer experience more. They should follow more of what Harley Davidson did with their dealers, which is force them to dress up the exteriors and interiors of their showrooms to match the brand. Most Mastercraft dealers I have seen are a hodge podge of strip centers with no real experiential exterior branding at all. Also, many of them even carry other boat brands in the same showroom. In my opinion if MasterCraft is going to try to justify the price difference in their boats, EVERYWHERE you see the MasterCraft brand(brochures, videos, boat shows, competitions,the dealer showrooms, etc) should be an upscale experience reflecting the superior quality of the boats.

starman205
07-14-2006, 11:04 AM
[QUOTE=Alteczen]I'm not sure what mfg you're speaking of but I haven't seen a MC competitor put out a better brochure. The full mc brochure is top notch imo. What brand are you talking about?

I believe Bigmac is talking about bu.

bigmac
07-14-2006, 11:10 AM
Are they buying marketing items or a boat? The boat is what they'll be driving and skiing behind, the other stuff is for looking at. The hinged seats are nice but I have seen them damaged by someone who couldn't figure out how to close them properly. They're going to need to go out for a demo ride anyway, so they should make their decision then, not based on a pretty, shiny disc or "nicely bound brochure". Do those make for a better boat? I think not.

Perception is reality, Jim. The cornerstone of marketing is to manipulate that perception. And while certainly the quality needs to be there in the product, even that can be overidden by a slick marketing campaign. How else do you explain the fact that Malibu outsells MasterCraft?

If quality was all that mattered, MasterCraft would be number one in sales and we'd all be using Macintosh computers.

People often go into boat buying with a blank slate. So, MasterCraft is a better boat...how are they supposed to know that? There is no Consumer reports article on ski boats. They only semi-objective measurement they have to go by is JD Powers, which rated Malibu superior to MasterCraft in 2005, and Correct Craft superior to both in both 2005 AND 2006. The only other thing they have is the ski mags, which basically never say ANYTHING bad about one of their advertisers. In the absence of such data, people will presume the better boat to be the one with better advertising.

east tx skier
07-14-2006, 12:29 PM
I'm hoping to one day see the Pro Star commercial MC did last year (or the year before) in the download section next to the XStar Commercial. I've never wanted to upgrade more than when I watched that commercial. I even downsized it and submitted it with all the WSM many of us scanned. Sure is great to watch!

MasterCrafting
07-14-2006, 12:33 PM
The Bu' book is acutually nice...its hardcover and everything...bust mastercraft makes a better boat so whatever

east tx skier
07-14-2006, 12:40 PM
Everyone, it's not that we can't discuss the other brands, but please remember who pays to keep the lights on over here. Nothing appears to have crossed the line yet. Just wanted to post as a reminder.

rodltg2
07-14-2006, 12:45 PM
i just dont get why you guys wany everyone to own a mastercraft...
i know jim@baws would ike that... but why do you guys care...?

ntidsl
07-14-2006, 12:48 PM
Rod is right...if there was more demand MC's would just cost more...

rodltg2
07-14-2006, 12:55 PM
not only that , but it doesnt set you apart form anyone other yahoo on the lake .. if everyone had an mc, what would make yours special...

rodltg2
07-14-2006, 12:56 PM
As of about 2 months ago, a competing ski boat dealer has opened in our little area (a dealer for the number one seller of inboard ski-boats). I'm intrigued by the interest this has generated among the people I know who are in the market for such a boat, despite my advice that MasterCraft is probably better. These people look at the prices, look at the admittedly glitzier boat design aspects (such as flip-up seats instead of the old chinese-puzzle method MasterCraft uses), and then are pretty much blown away by the very impressive DVD that this mfgr provides, AND then their very nicely bound brochure, which kind of makes MasterCraft's brochure look more like a pamphlet.

What does MC have in the way of marketing that I'm missing in trying to direct my friends and acquaintances who in in the market for a $50,000 ski boat?

whats the chinese puzzle method. i guess im missing someting because i had a 197.

bigmac
07-14-2006, 12:57 PM
Well...this is a tough subject...and every market is different...don't harass this guy for bringing a valid point...in his area obviously the competing dealer is kicking the mc dealer's butt...its the same case is my area...I am going on a trip to Norris lake next weekend with the competing dealer...why? because its fun, lots of fun, and the people are just like us...very passionate about their boats and skiing...question is..why doesn't the local MC dealer do a trip like this??? because the dealer doesnt know how to market...its not MC...its the dealer...thats all thats to it...



No, it's not the dealer. The MC dealer has been a family-owned boat works for decades and has an exceptional reputation in the region. The competing dealer has been in this area for about two months and has NO reputation. The MC dealer is excellent in all regards, but people who are in that market aren't going to plop down $50,000 + on the first boat they see - they're going to shop around and they're going to shop at all three tow-boat dealers in this 20 mile radius sales area. And like the typical American consumer, their impression is going to be shaped by things like shiny discs, pretty hard-cover brochures and boats with lots of glitzy doodads.

Yeah, by all means focus on quality and service, but that may all go for naught if the other guy gets the message out better.

bigmac
07-14-2006, 01:03 PM
whats the chinese puzzle method. i guess im missing someting because i had a 197.

That's where the seat cushions have to go out and go back in in a certain order. For example, I have to remove both bow side cushions in order to get the bow center cushion out. Likewise, the rear corner cushions are in there solidly unless I remove two other cushions. If I have the bow filler cushion in, the whole thing has to come out to get ANY of the bow cushions out - a nuisance if I need the anchor light, which is stored up there.

rodltg2
07-14-2006, 01:04 PM
out of the last three boats i have bought, all different brands, i never even looked at brochure. i think what dealers need to have i a nice inventory with selection...

when i bought my mb, the dealer had like 6 different boats too choose from of the same model.

rodltg2
07-14-2006, 01:05 PM
That's where the seat cushions have to go out and go back in in a certain order. For example, I have to remove both bow side cushions in order to get the bow center cushion out. Likewise, the rear corner cushions are in there solidly unless I remove two other cushions. If I have the bow filler cushion in, the whole thing has to come out to get ANY of the bow cushions out - a nuisance if I need the anchor light, which is stored up there.

sounds complicated :confused:

bigmac
07-14-2006, 01:16 PM
i just dont get why you guys wany everyone to own a mastercraft...
i know jim@baws would ike that... but why do you guys care...?

I don't care if everyone owns a MasterCraft, but I do want everyone to buy their boats from my dealer....

bigmac
07-14-2006, 01:16 PM
sounds complicated :confused:I think I have it mastered...;)

PendO
07-14-2006, 01:16 PM
maybee we need a small booklet, as a spoof, like something used by a missionary trying to convert someone ... we can hand the booklets out to our friends who are boat shopping

Either that or all delaers need to get a video made by Mike (MYMC) or Jim@Baws ... I would imagine if you walked into their showrooms you would be hard pressed to not want an MC.

People who spend 50K (or more) on a boat want to buy the best quality and the best bang for their buck, it is up to the brand/dealership/salesman to have that knowledge IMO. Saw a guy pulling a new RLXi down the freeway the other day, wished it was a 197, but I know why it was a bu.

east tx skier
07-14-2006, 01:27 PM
For what it's worth, there is a "Rewind" DVD that has been issued for the last couple of years.

Farmer Ted
07-14-2006, 01:28 PM
No, it's not the dealer. The MC dealer has been a family-owned boat works for decades and has an exceptional reputation in the region. The competing dealer has been in this area for about two months and has NO reputation. The MC dealer is excellent in all regards, but people who are in that market aren't going to plop down $50,000 + on the first boat they see - they're going to shop around and they're going to shop at all three tow-boat dealers in this 20 mile radius sales area. And like the typical American consumer, their impression is going to be shaped by things like shiny discs, pretty hard-cover brochures and boats with lots of glitzy doodads.

Yeah, by all means focus on quality and service, but that may all go for naught if the other guy gets the message out better.


I've been in Midwest Mastercraft a couple of times on the way home from visiting my sister. They have the poster that does a side by side comparison of how a MC and a bu are manufactured. This alone should justify the additonal expense that comes with the intial purchase of a MC.

According to MWMC, the Malibu dealer is very aggressive and the only way they could counter that was to let the facts do the talking.

That poster should be in the download section and included in every brochure that MC prints.


Snake skin textured seats and billet aluminum covers are the bomb!

MC should follow the aviation industry and get rid of the gauges and put in an MFD.

Checklist and owners manual could be accessible right from the seat, you could put all kinds of extra information that would enable the "status" of the boat to be determined immediately.

As electronic as the boats are getting, there's no reason an owner shouldn't be able to run a diagnostic BIT and take the results (downloaded onto a flash drive) and email them to their service center to schedule a repair.

rodltg2
07-14-2006, 01:30 PM
glass cockpits on ski boats!!! that would be cool..

corey
07-14-2006, 04:07 PM
Farmer Ted, Glad you liked the side by side comparison. We are lucky enough to have a customer with access to both the MasterCraft and Malibu factroy. The pics speak for themselves, we don't even have any descriptions next to them.

Workin' 4 Toys
07-14-2006, 05:35 PM
MC had an awesome brochure and DVD in '05. The last three times I was at the dealer I asked for the '06 versions. "They haven't arrived yet". So I haven't seen either.:o

Farmer Ted
07-14-2006, 06:03 PM
Farmer Ted, Glad you liked the side by side comparison. We are lucky enough to have a customer with access to both the MasterCraft and Malibu factroy. The pics speak for themselves, we don't even have any descriptions next to them.


Corey,

that poster is awesome, you guys shoule scan it or resize it and post it here or pass it along so it can be included in the download section.

billr
07-14-2006, 06:22 PM
I drove 400 miles to get my Maristar. ( That was the nearest dealer at the time ) We now have a MB dealer here. I think too many first time buyers are interested more in price than quality.

SD190EVO
07-14-2006, 07:30 PM
It would be super cool if someone could post that poster.

bigmac
07-14-2006, 07:42 PM
I drove 400 miles to get my Maristar. ( That was the nearest dealer at the time ) We now have a MB dealer here. I think too many first time buyers are interested more in price than quality.

But how are they to KNOW that MasterCraft is superior in quality? My contention is that there IS no way for them to know, so too many people make their boat purchase decision based on other things that they CAN see.

Midwest MasterCraft is well-recognized around this state by upscale boat buyers as being a first class dealership. I've never been in their place, but it's high on my list of things to do next time I'm in the Twin Cities - I really want to see that poster, but I'd especially like for my boat-buying buddies who are in the market to see it, or something like it.

nroland
07-14-2006, 10:38 PM
I'll give midwest a call and see if we can't get andy to scan it (or take a picture of it) and put it on this site.

As for the best way to know the quality ... just take a look at a 10 year old MC and compare. It's very easy to make a new boat look good, but an older boat ... that can be tough. Also, if one checks into what the materials are (wood, fiberglass, etc) and how things are fastened (pylon, towers, etc) it shouldn't be that hard. not to mention that most of the economy boat manufactures will always discuss the cost/value instead of construction.

If all else fails ask them why they always compare their boats to Mastercrafts ... because MC's are the best build, quality, resale, etc.:)

6ballsisall
07-14-2006, 11:17 PM
However, I do wish MasterCraft would concentrate on upgrading the dealer experience more. They should follow more of what Harley Davidson did with their dealers, which is force them to dress up the exteriors and interiors of their showrooms to match the brand. Most Mastercraft dealers I have seen are a hodge podge of strip centers with no real experiential exterior branding at all. Also, many of them even carry other boat brands in the same showroom. In my opinion if MasterCraft is going to try to justify the price difference in their boats, EVERYWHERE you see the MasterCraft brand(brochures, videos, boat shows, competitions,the dealer showrooms, etc) should be an upscale experience reflecting the superior quality of the boats.

Its about the experience. What did HD's CEO say? (not word for word because I can't remember it) "We don't sell motorcycles. We sell the middle aged CPA the ability to drive down the streets of his city and have everyone afraid of him"

HD riders seem to be alot like MC owners. It's somewhat of a (for lack of better words) cult. However, I know HD riders long for going to their local dealer. They buy shirts and do all kinds of things when they visit a HD dealership. I dont think MC owners feel that when they visit thier local dealer.

Leroy
07-15-2006, 12:46 AM
All MC needs is a cover that goes on so easy, doesn't seep, can be towed, and never holds water or allows it to come in the boat. Seriously, I think based on JD Power and listening to the chronic issues you hear on this site MC should nail some of those fundamental issues and MC would be at the top of the Power list. I would like to see more detail on those ratings and why the difference.

At the Indy boat show this past spring the glitz at the Bu site was amazing and they did have a few new features, not necesarily important, but "shiny" so to speak with plywood platforms to add to the marketing glitz. Even with a glitzy BU dealer on my lake MC is still the dominate boat on there. It is a serious wakeboard and ski lake.

3event
07-15-2006, 09:14 AM
Its about the experience. What did HD's CEO say? (not word for word because I can't remember it) "We don't sell motorcycles. We sell the middle aged CPA the ability to drive down the streets of his city and have everyone afraid of him"

HD riders seem to be alot like MC owners. It's somewhat of a (for lack of better words) cult. However, I know HD riders long for going to their local dealer. They buy shirts and do all kinds of things when they visit a HD dealership. I dont think MC owners feel that when they visit thier local dealer.

JRandol's got something there - if Mastercraft dealers took some lessons from Harley, that would be a very good thing ! The only hurdle is that we generally can not drive our MC's to the dealer for Saturday parties. But they certainly are a good model - and look at how much merchandising they sell !

dapicatti
07-17-2006, 02:14 AM
For what it's worth, there is a "Rewind" DVD that has been issued for the last couple of years.

The rewind DVD has more actual PWT shots and more techinical info than brand X. It was incredibly cool to walk into the PWT in Portland, OR yesterday and see Zane Schwenk working in the Mastercraft display. What a nice guy! The first thing my wife said was- Hey that's the guy from the Rewind DVD. (no clue that he is a legendary rider).
He was incredibly nice to us and to everyone we saw him interact with at the event. Says alot about Mastercraft, and the quality of riders they support!

bigmac
07-17-2006, 08:59 AM
I know nothing about this "Rewind DVD". Is it specific to the 2006 models? I don't see any such thing available on the MasterCraft web site. Where is it available?

Farmer Ted
07-17-2006, 09:09 AM
I know nothing about this "Rewind DVD". Is it specific to the 2006 models? I don't see any such thing available on the MasterCraft web site. Where is it available?



you should be able to get a copy from your MC dealer. PM your address and I'll send you a copy.

Granite_33
07-17-2006, 12:44 PM
That's where the seat cushions have to go out and go back in in a certain order. For example, I have to remove both bow side cushions in order to get the bow center cushion out. Likewise, the rear corner cushions are in there solidly unless I remove two other cushions. If I have the bow filler cushion in, the whole thing has to come out to get ANY of the bow cushions out - a nuisance if I need the anchor light, which is stored up there.


After having 5 kids under the age of 10 in my boat all weekend, I am very happy with the removable seats. Every time we stopped, all 5 jumped in the water. By the end of each day Fri, Sat, Sun, the boat was soaked. It was nice to be able to remove the seats, wipe them down / clean them and take them into the A/C in the house and let them dry out. (the humidity this weekend had to be in the 70% range, so nothing dried!!)

I was at a marina 2 weekends ago looking for some cleaner / wax and saw the Bew hardcover brochure. My thought? "What a waste of money." I got one of the hardcovers for the '05 model year when I was looking. As soon as I bought my X-9, I chucked all the brochures cause they take up too much space.

A solid Rewind DVD that had good music, reviewed each boat in detail, layed out some great shots, etc, etc would be much more preferable to me than a hardcover book.
I still have the DVD's too from MC, Bew, and Tige.

Ditto about Zane. I met him in Cincy in Feb '05.

d36yzrider
07-17-2006, 10:28 PM
All i know is Mastercraft has the best adds in the mags they are straight to the point. Mastercraft also probally has the most loyal owners out there I wouldnt buy anything but a Mastercraft. All they need to do now is bring back the stars and stripes sales would jump lol

Farmer Ted
07-17-2006, 10:29 PM
All i know is Mastercraft has the best adds in the mags they are straight to the point. Mastercraft also probally has the most loyal owners out there I wouldnt buy anything but a Mastercraft. All they need to do now is bring back the stars and stripes sales would jump lol


straight up circa 1983 Stars and Stripes

all the way down to the funky old style lettering