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east tx skier
07-05-2006, 04:46 PM
When MC started adding the hook to its Pro Star hulls beginning with the 02 TT 190/197 and there after in the production 190/197s, did they create new molds or was the hook added on to the same mold as was used for the 01-02 190 and the 02 production 197? If the hook was initially an add on, is it still, or have new molds been created? If so, when?

rodltg2
07-05-2006, 04:58 PM
dont tell me your going to DIY a 197 :D

east tx skier
07-05-2006, 05:24 PM
Yeah, right. Just stumbled across an old MC mold behind my office and needed to know so I could get it right. ;)

MYMC
07-05-2006, 05:29 PM
When MC started adding the hook to its Pro Star hulls beginning with the 02 TT 190/197 and there after in the production 190/197s, did they create new molds or was the hook added on to the same mold as was used for the 01-02 190 and the 02 production 197? If the hook was initially an add on, is it still, or have new molds been created? If so, when?
It is in the molds. Two molds were modified back in 2002 (hence the "special" TT boats) and then as the standard 197 molds rotated they were modified and put back into production for 2003.

east tx skier
07-05-2006, 05:30 PM
Thanks, Mike. So they modified the existing molds? Makes more sense than scrapping molds that would have only been used for one production year.

MYMC
07-05-2006, 05:35 PM
Thanks, Mike. So they modified the existing molds? Makes more sense than scrapping molds that would have only been used for one production year.
Cost of production molds is more than I ever dreamed...but yes they modified the existing molds.

east tx skier
07-05-2006, 05:38 PM
I've heard of using molds for set time periods to amortize them, etc., but I'll plead ignorance as to the specifics of why that's a good thing one way or the other.

MYMC
07-05-2006, 05:45 PM
I've heard of using molds for set time periods to amortize them, etc., but I'll plead ignorance as to the specifics of why that's a good thing one way or the other.
Build cost for a hull mold is in the area of $75,000 per mold. They are very labor intensive to make and maintain.

BrianM
07-05-2006, 05:46 PM
I've heard of using molds for set time periods to amortize them, etc., but I'll plead ignorance as to the specifics of why that's a good thing one way or the other.

The 190/197 hull is on quite the production run stretching those $75k investments. This hull has been around for 6 years now (counting 2007). That is a very long production run (even longer than the early '80s SS if I am not mistaken although I do not know the exact years of that change ) since MC seemed to only keep a hull around for 2-4 years, at least since the late '80's. (87-90, 91-94, 95-97 98-00, 01-02, 02tt-??)

I'm going out on a limb and starting a rumor that '07 will be the last year for this hull. 2008 aniversary year and a total redesign.

east tx skier
07-05-2006, 05:47 PM
Wow! That is a chunk of change! Very interesting. Thanks.

MYMC
07-05-2006, 05:59 PM
The 190/197 hull is on quite the production run stretching those $75k investments. This hull has been around for 6 years now (counting 2007). That is a very long production run (even longer that the early '80s SS ) since MC seemed to only keep a hull around for 3-4 years at least since the late '80's. (87-90, 91-94, 95-97 98-00, 01-02, 02tt-??)

I'm going out on a limb and starting a rumor that '07 will be the last year for this hull. 2008 aniversary year and a total redesign.
Donít crawl too far out on that limb...it wonít be 2008. The PS190/197 has no equal in the market and therefore MasterCraft is in no hurry to replace it. Yes I sell them but the numbers don't lie. You can add together the closest competitors and they don't equal the numbers of sold 190/197 units. MasterCraft has been sold out for this model for the last 3 production years.

Lastly, keep in mind that the molds are replaced as they are deemed damaged or they are not turning out quality parts.

Mag_Red
07-05-2006, 06:03 PM
Build cost for a hull mold is in the area of $75,000 per mold. They are very labor intensive to make and maintain.Mike, is that just the mold for the hull or does that include the inner hull mold too?

MYMC
07-05-2006, 06:14 PM
Mike, is that just the mold for the hull or does that include the inner hull mold too?
Hull and liner

BrianM
07-05-2006, 06:18 PM
Lastly, keep in mind that the molds are replaced as they are deemed damaged or they are not turning out quality parts.


I knew that there was a life to the mold. Considering the numbers of boats MC puts through them I am sure they changed fairly often in the grand scheme of things.

Ric
07-05-2006, 06:53 PM
I did the factory tour and the molds didn't look modified at all (to this layman's eye)

75k per mold does not sound out of line at all.

jeverett
07-05-2006, 07:57 PM
I did the factory tour and the molds didn't look modified at all (to this layman's eye)

75k per mold does not sound out of line at all.

To the layman you wouldn't be able to see the difference. The biggest concern when modifying or changing a mold is how will it effect the part i.e. hull finish. So the whole idea is to make the mold as perfect as possible. Crappy molds = crappy parts and lots of labor to get it right.

Just an aside: modifications like a hook in the stern deepen the draft of the mold and is very hard to do. So next time someone asks why MC's are so expensive they go the extra mile to get the best performance!

Andyg
07-05-2006, 08:45 PM
What did the hook in the hull do for the 2003 versus the 2002? I assume it dropped the bow of the boat in the water. What is the benefit of that?

Ric
07-05-2006, 08:48 PM
To the layman you wouldn't be able to see the difference. The biggest concern when modifying or changing a mold is how will it effect the part i.e. hull finish. So the whole idea is to make the mold as perfect as possible. Crappy molds = crappy parts and lots of labor to get it right.

Just an aside: modifications like a hook in the stern deepen the draft of the mold and is very hard to do. So next time someone asks why MC's are so expensive they go the extra mile to get the best performance!
I'm a layman :rolleyes:

jeverett
07-05-2006, 09:00 PM
What did the hook in the hull do for the 2003 versus the 2002? I assume it dropped the bow of the boat in the water. What is the benefit of that?


I think to prevent porpusing at higher speeds, and to provide added hydrolics to the stern to reduce wake size.

MYMC
07-06-2006, 09:57 AM
What did the hook in the hull do for the 2003 versus the 2002? I assume it dropped the bow of the boat in the water. What is the benefit of that?
The hook at the transom adds lift, kind of like the winged rudder only more surface area involved so more lift (also the hooking doesn't load the rudder but I digress)...yes this does push the bow down some which aids in tracking. By lifting the rear at slalom speeds we reduced spray and softend the wakes.