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View Full Version : This should increase the import debates...


bcampbe7
07-03-2006, 10:45 AM
What say you???

http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/03/news/international/nissan_gm.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes

billr
07-03-2006, 12:07 PM
As a gm owner ('05 GMC YUKON ) If they get in bed with the French, I'll get a Ford!!

Workin' 4 Toys
07-03-2006, 12:21 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......................
Thanks, Beau, I needed that....;)

Now on to what flashed across my screen not so long ago..
Most "American" built vehicles.... #1 Ford F150, #2 Toyota Camry,.....nuf said....Can this be right...:rolleyes:

bigmac
07-03-2006, 12:28 PM
I think some kind of equity deal is inevitable for GM. Their inability to accurately gauge the US auto market over the last 30 years makes it unlikely they'd otherwise be able to come up with enough cash in a short enough time period to pull them out of the fire effectively. Assuming no government bail-out...

Hoosier Bob
07-03-2006, 12:33 PM
The GMC Alliance! What a great ride! There is a shot in the arm for quality! Renault saves GM! I think the Alliance was Road and Tracks best choice! I got stuck with an Alliance as a rental car once, ONCE! Wow and they said the Pinto was dangerous! :eek:
WFT OUI, OUI!

Tom023
07-03-2006, 12:59 PM
Next up, Toyota buys Ford :rolleyes:

Hoosier Bob
07-03-2006, 01:05 PM
I think GM is trying to get Toyota to buy them! Why else would they sweeten the pot so buy adding Renault? Oui, Oui! What's next Yugo, Suzuki or Daewoo? GM could corner the market of POS rides! I hope MasterCraft never needs to hit Bayliner up for some cash! :o Next up, Toyota buys Ford :rolleyes:

BriEOD
07-03-2006, 05:35 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm......................
Thanks, Beau, I needed that....;)

Now on to what flashed across my screen not so long ago..
Most "American" built vehicles.... #1 Ford F150, #2 Toyota Camry,.....nuf said....Can this be right...:rolleyes:
That's why I drive a F-150.

6ballsisall
07-03-2006, 06:39 PM
I have my flame suit on and am ready for saying this. But I welcome the imports here. Honda just agreed to build a 550 million dollar plant no less than 35 minutes from my house. This will be a MAJOR boost for the local economy. I read an article in yesterdays paper with some stats of % of cars manufactured in teh US, several Honda and Toyota models have more american parts on them than the domestic cars of equal class. Makes you really think.......

Hoosier Bob
07-03-2006, 07:31 PM
Lisa's sister just purchased an 07 TrailBlazer. Hit something on the lower front end. I grabbed my trusty SAE TOOLKIT and headed out to take a look. While attempting to remove some bent brackets I realized all of the bolts were metric! Ain't it a shame that some of us on here are very loyal and take this debate very seriously only to have the very company I, you, we support take a big ole' loyal American dump right on our heads! They ask us to support America then they themselves build it elsewhere! :confused:

Workin' 4 Toys
07-03-2006, 08:44 PM
That's why I drive a F-150.
And dam proud of it too, It's nice to see.:toast:

Workin' 4 Toys
07-03-2006, 08:48 PM
Lisa's sister just purchased an 07 TrailBlazer. Hit something on the lower front end. I grabbed my trusty SAE TOOLKIT and headed out to take a look. While attempting to remove some bent brackets I realized all of the bolts were metric! Ain't it a shame that some of us on here are very loyal and take this debate very seriously only to have the very company I, you, we support take a big ole' loyal American dump right on our heads! They ask us to support America then they themselves build it elsewhere! :confused:
I'll go down with a fight my friend, I may be standing alone, but I will.............
What isn't metric anymore......How many "Liters" is that engine...:rolleyes: Gimme a 327, 350, 409, 427, 454, or 502 under the hood, and I will gladly remove the *.*L decals....

BriEOD
07-03-2006, 08:56 PM
And dam proud of it too, It's nice to see.:toast:
Amen to that brother!

Hoosier Bob
07-03-2006, 09:05 PM
Notice I didn't say WFT! I said I, you and we! Of course I meant you but I did not say it! I would like to see the people you support have your back as well! I got your back WFT but we may be goin' home in a Honda! Keep fighting and hopefully they will earn your support rather than expect it. It is at that time we will both be driving an F250! :D I'll go down with a fight my friend, I may be standing alone, but I will.............
What isn't metric anymore......How many "Liters" is that engine...:rolleyes: Gimme a 327, 350, 409, 427, 454, or 502 under the hood, and I will gladly remove the *.*L decals....

bigmac
07-03-2006, 09:05 PM
Lisa's sister just purchased an 07 TrailBlazer. Hit something on the lower front end. I grabbed my trusty SAE TOOLKIT and headed out to take a look. While attempting to remove some bent brackets I realized all of the bolts were metric! Ain't it a shame that some of us on here are very loyal and take this debate very seriously only to have the very company I, you, we support take a big ole' loyal American dump right on our heads! They ask us to support America then they themselves build it elsewhere! :confused:

IIRC, the TrailBlazer is made in GM's Moraine, Ohio assembly plant.

I don't understand - what's the problem with the metric system of measurement? :confused:

Hoosier Bob
07-03-2006, 09:07 PM
So Ohio is on the metric system? No wonder it takes so long to get to Columbus now! 8p IIRC, the TrailBlazer is made in GM's Moraine, Ohio assembly plant.

Workin' 4 Toys
07-05-2006, 10:40 AM
I don't understand - what's the problem with the metric system of measurement? :confused:
I think it confuses him.............. "Do I use 14MM or 9/16"" ... You know confusing stuff....
All he has to work on his Hondas is standard wrenchs, so he usually he just gets out the channellocks and visegrips and calls it a day...

Tom023
07-05-2006, 11:05 AM
English, metric, don't really care, it doesn't make it less American. What is really bothersome is when they have both on the same vehicle!

bigmac
07-05-2006, 11:07 AM
English, metric, don't really care, it doesn't make it less American. What is really bothersome is when they have both on the same vehicle!

IIRC, all the Vortec engines use metric fasteners. True of the GM engines in current MasterCrafts?

Tom023
07-05-2006, 11:09 AM
IIRC, all the Vortec engines use metric fasteners. True of the GM engines in current MasterCrafts?

I know the allen wrench size to remove the raw water pump is English, not metric, so there you go. Better bring both tool boxes.

Hoosier Bob
07-05-2006, 11:23 AM
So metric is better? What say you WFT? Maybe they do it so you think it is foreign? Gives you that warm fuzzy feeling! I have never heard of a 14mm holding better than a 9/16?
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006605070725
If I am going to call something American I should not have to say "AMERICANO!" I should also be able to use my SAE tool set!

JimN
07-05-2006, 11:24 AM
Biatching about fasteners now is just like the old factory workers doing it in the '60s and '70s, when it was first proposed- a symptom of not wanting to change. ~95% of the fasteners in the world are metric and in the world market, using SAE fasteners would make the vehicle unserviceable in a lot of places where the tools aren't used.

The unions had a lot to do with metric taking so long to get a foothold in manufacturing too, I'll bet. I would be surprised if they didn't say "Making our workers learn something new is purely a ploy by the company to weed out good people". If they couldn't learn metric, I wouldn't have wanted them as employees- it's not as if ALL metric measurements would be needed for most people but being able to convert is very useful.

Inches, pounds, etc didn't originate here anyway, so how un American can it really be to use metric? Un American, my butt! It's easier to sell American goods if the rest of the world can use them, regardless of whether they're of high quality or not.

ski36short
07-05-2006, 11:27 AM
I don't think Renault or Nissan has anything to offer GM. Kerkorian has bought into all the hype about Ghosn and wants him to run GM. Personally I think he'd probably just be the next Nassar, so keep him out of our house!

http://www.autoextremist.com/page2.shtml#Rant

bigmac
07-05-2006, 11:27 AM
So metric is better? What say you WFT? Maybe they do it so you think it is foreign? Gives you that warm fuzzy feeling! I have never heard of a 14mm holding better than a 9/16?
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006605070725
If I am going to call something American I should not have to say "AMERICANO!" I should also be able to use my SAE tool set!USA already has a distastrous trade deficit. The world is metric - the longer we persist in manufacturing with a non-standard system of measurement, the more disadvantage is our manufacturing industry, which must compete world-wide.

Hoosier Bob
07-05-2006, 11:36 AM
I appreciate your argument for "Going Global" but the numbers do not support the argument nor does the fact that ONLY HALF OF THE FREAKIN BOLTS ARE METRIC! What dumbarse said we will have a better global opportunity with a higher "MIX" of metric fasteners? All or none, another brilliant move!

Ric
07-05-2006, 11:56 AM
IIRC, all the Vortec engines use metric fasteners. True of the GM engines in current MasterCrafts?
It's a conspiracy by tool and fastener manufacturers and the automakers are in on it! ;)

Hoosier Bob
07-05-2006, 12:03 PM
I will bet Honda and Toyota sell a fair amount of vehicles here in the good ole USA. That being said I wonder why they did not convert to SAE to improve their global penetration? Maybe a better vehicle can withstand the shortcoming of non-traditional homeland fasteners? This factor has really hurt Honda and Toyota. What market would you rather cater to? US or all others? I would also say US vs the WORLD in total consumption, we are the GLOBE!

bigmac
07-05-2006, 12:06 PM
I appreciate your argument for "Going Global" but the numbers do not support the argument nor does the fact that ONLY HALF OF THE FREAKIN BOLTS ARE METRIC! What dumbarse said we will have a better global opportunity with a higher "MIX" of metric fasteners? All or none, another brilliant move!

When Congress mandated the switch to metric decades ago, they were unprepared for the shrieking backlash. Had everyone then just sucked it up and accepted the inevitable switch to metric, we wouldn't have the much bigger mess of half-and-half that we have now. Instead, the politicization of the whole mess has just dragged the process out over 20-plus years. Obviously, the USA will ultimately be all-metric, but we all seem determined to make that switch as complicated as possible.

Hoosier Bob
07-05-2006, 12:09 PM
I say keep SAE and send a $40.00 set of Craftsmen Tools with every exported vehicle! Done! Next issue! :D

east tx skier
07-05-2006, 12:13 PM
Most "American" built vehicles.... #1 Ford F150, #2 Toyota Camry,.....nuf said....

Well, that's got to put my expedition up there. Basically an F150.

bigmac
07-05-2006, 12:13 PM
I will bet Honda and Toyota sell a fair amount of vehicles here in the good ole USA. That being said I wonder why they did not convert to SAE to improve their global penetration?

The obvious answer is that it would cost too much to have two manufacturing standards. Besides, it certainly does not appear that Honda or Toyota is having any trouble with global penetration. Toyota outsells both GM and Ford in the US, and certainly overseas. Looks like GM and Ford should have switched to metric long ago...along with copying the many other manufacturing and marketing techniques that have made Japanese automakers so stunningly successful (the ones they haven't already copied... ;) )

bigmac
07-05-2006, 12:17 PM
I say keep SAE and send a $40.00 set of Craftsmen Tools with every exported vehicle! Done! Next issue! :DWell, the next issue is virtually every other item manufactured in the US besides automobiles (the ever-decreasing number of items that aren't already metric).. ;)

JimN
07-05-2006, 01:30 PM
Hoosier- why would Toyota or Honda convert to SAE? Any good mechanic will have both sets, anyway. Besides, both brands make the cars for the US market here. After the US set heavy tarrifs and duties on certain imported goods, it became clear that in order to compete on an even playing field, they would have to build factories here and avoid the extra costs.

Why American workers couldn't accept the metric system as a better way, I don't know, must be the idea that "The American way is the only way" BS. The fractional system (1". 1/2", 1/4", etc) came about because you can arrive at those divisions by eye until you get to the really small ones, while base 10 can go as small as you want.

Don't get me wrong, I want the US to make and sell it's azz off, but when something is better, it's better. The Big Three underestimated the effect of the difference in quality between the US product and the imported cars in the '70s and got their butts handed to them. It took almost 25 years to catch up. There was an efficiency expert who tried like he!! to get the US auto makers to adopt better quality standards and they blew him off completely. He went to Japan and the rest is history.

American arrogance gets the country into a lot of trouble and it needs to stop. I was talking to a friend whose family owns a few car dealerships (Chrysler/Dodge, Honda, Hyundai, maybe KIA) and he was talking about the new President of Daimler, who thinks the bulk of Americans are lazy and stupid. When you look at the schools' averages for graduates (through HS), grades, the fact that there's still a huge brain drain due to not enough kids having an interest in science, engineering and math, the quality of a lot of US made goods and the crime stats, I'm not sure he's wrong. When so many kids want to be star athletes with little to fall back on and apparently no self control, who wants to make $75 K when they can make $80M in 5 years (if they last that long)? Yes, there are a lot of brilliant kids here but if you see crime reports and talk to people in low to middle pay jobs, it doesn't look good.

michael freeman
07-05-2006, 01:33 PM
If everyone would have switched to metric a long time ago when we said we would do so, I could have bought twice as many tools! I hate having to buy both SAE and metric tools.

Speaking of this, what system do new MC boats use Metric, SAE or both?

SD190EVO
07-05-2006, 01:37 PM
The president of Diamler can blow me.

JimN
07-05-2006, 01:39 PM
MC uses both. They have for quite a while.

bigmac
07-05-2006, 01:42 PM
Hoosier- why would Toyota or Honda convert to SAE? Any good mechanic will have both sets, anyway. Besides, both brands make the cars for the US market here. After the US set heavy tarrifs and duties on certain imported goods, it became clear that in order to compete on an even playing field, they would have to build factories here and avoid the extra costs.

Why American workers couldn't accept the metric system as a better way, I don't know, must be the idea that "The American way is the only way" BS. The fractional system (1". 1/2", 1/4", etc) came about because you can arrive at those divisions by eye until you get to the really small ones, while base 10 can go as small as you want.

Don't get me wrong, I want the US to make and sell it's azz off, but when something is better, it's better. The Big Three underestimated the effect of the difference in quality between the US product and the imported cars in the '70s and got their butts handed to them. It took almost 25 years to catch up. There was an efficiency expert who tried like he!! to get the US auto makers to adopt better quality standards and they blew him off completely. He went to Japan and the rest is history.

American arrogance gets the country into a lot of trouble and it needs to stop. I was talking to a friend whose family owns a few car dealerships (Chrysler/Dodge, Honda, Hyundai, maybe KIA) and he was talking about the new President of Daimler, who thinks the bulk of Americans are lazy and stupid. When you look at the schools' averages for graduates (through HS), grades, the fact that there's still a huge brain drain due to not enough kids having an interest in science, engineering and math, the quality of a lot of US made goods and the crime stats, I'm not sure he's wrong. When so many kids want to be star athletes with little to fall back on and apparently no self control, who wants to make $75 K when they can make $80M in 5 years (if they last that long)? Yes, there are a lot of brilliant kids here but if you see crime reports and talk to people in low to middle pay jobs, it doesn't look good.

Jim, I gotta agree. We as a country act as if our preeminence in the world is the same now as it ever was. It's not...our arrogance and self-indulgence has left us as an increasingly weak competitor on the world economic stage compared to the country our fathers and grandfathers were running, and I'm worried about the country our children and grandchildren are going to run. If you want a scary look at the future of the USA, look at the history of the emergence of Chindia as the new up-and-coming global superpower. If you want to be REALLY scared, look at their expected rate of increase in energy-resource (fossil fuel) consumption.

Ric
07-05-2006, 02:10 PM
Hoosier- why would Toyota or Honda convert to SAE? Any good mechanic will have both sets, anyway. Besides, both brands make the cars for the US market here. After the US set heavy tarrifs and duties on certain imported goods, it became clear that in order to compete on an even playing field, they would have to build factories here and avoid the extra costs.

Why American workers couldn't accept the metric system as a better way, I don't know, must be the idea that "The American way is the only way" BS. The fractional system (1". 1/2", 1/4", etc) came about because you can arrive at those divisions by eye until you get to the really small ones, while base 10 can go as small as you want.

Don't get me wrong, I want the US to make and sell it's azz off, but when something is better, it's better. The Big Three underestimated the effect of the difference in quality between the US product and the imported cars in the '70s and got their butts handed to them. It took almost 25 years to catch up. There was an efficiency expert who tried like he!! to get the US auto makers to adopt better quality standards and they blew him off completely. He went to Japan and the rest is history.

American arrogance gets the country into a lot of trouble and it needs to stop. I was talking to a friend whose family owns a few car dealerships (Chrysler/Dodge, Honda, Hyundai, maybe KIA) and he was talking about the new President of Daimler, who thinks the bulk of Americans are lazy and stupid. When you look at the schools' averages for graduates (through HS), grades, the fact that there's still a huge brain drain due to not enough kids having an interest in science, engineering and math, the quality of a lot of US made goods and the crime stats, I'm not sure he's wrong. When so many kids want to be star athletes with little to fall back on and apparently no self control, who wants to make $75 K when they can make $80M in 5 years (if they last that long)? Yes, there are a lot of brilliant kids here but if you see crime reports and talk to people in low to middle pay jobs, it doesn't look good.
well alot of that makes sense but it's specious to argue that the kids who would have been interested in science etc, are the ones who are striving for superstar athletic status...

and..... while some of the imports are of good quality, anyone owned a mazda lately? huh :rolleyes:

SD190EVO
07-05-2006, 02:30 PM
Building a better product is one thing. The Japanese arguably make some decent stuff. They play by the rules too (try not to have child labor, dont steal ideas, etc).

It is the Chinese that do not play fair and the stuff made there is cr@p. But that is not why they fill Walmart with all their cr@p - it is because they don't play by the rules. (Throw the Koreans in there too but you have to differentiate between the Japanese and the Chinese and sometimes us Americans forget they are totally different)

If you would let me run a company that didn't have to observe any environmental rules, and I could hire kids of any age and pay them any amount I wanted and I could copy your patented ideas and I didn't have to pay any insurance or workmans comp, and I had no fear of being sued if I manufactured something like a kite tube I'd put you out of business so fast it'd make your head spin.

hacker
07-05-2006, 04:59 PM
Base everything off 10? C'mon!!! 10 months a year? 20 hours a day? 5 and 10 packs of beer? A case would only have 20?! :uglyhamme

bigmac
07-05-2006, 05:20 PM
Building a better product is one thing. The Japanese arguably make some decent stuff. They play by the rules too (try not to have child labor, dont steal ideas, etc).

It is the Chinese that do not play fair and the stuff made there is cr@p. But that is not why they fill Walmart with all their cr@p - it is because they don't play by the rules. (Throw the Koreans in there too but you have to differentiate between the Japanese and the Chinese and sometimes us Americans forget they are totally different)

If you would let me run a company that didn't have to observe any environmental rules, and I could hire kids of any age and pay them any amount I wanted and I could copy your patented ideas and I didn't have to pay any insurance or workmans comp, and I had no fear of being sued if I manufactured something like a kite tube I'd put you out of business so fast it'd make your head spin.

Absolutely. It doesn't change the end result, though, since there's no way of forcing such compliance.

Ric
07-05-2006, 06:55 PM
If you would let me run a company that didn't have to observe any environmental rules, and I could hire kids of any age and pay them any amount I wanted and I could copy your patented ideas and I didn't have to pay any insurance or workmans comp, and I had no fear of being sued if I manufactured something like a kite tube I'd put you out of business so fast it'd make your head spin.

Limbaugh wrote that if we want a level playing field globally, we need to export liberalism :steering:

Farmer Ted
07-05-2006, 07:18 PM
5 and 10 packs of beer? A case would only have 20?! :uglyhamme


in your world....

in my world beer would come in 15 packs and cases would be 60 :friday:

Hoosier Bob
07-05-2006, 10:53 PM
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D Double post!

Hoosier Bob
07-05-2006, 10:54 PM
JIMN, you are saying what I am just with much less sarcasm! Hacker if the metric system will change my case of beer from 24 to 20 I AM OUT!!! My point is do not blame our poor performance on PIXIE STIX! If our product was better and could compete in the world market it would no mater what size fasteners we use! It is time to stop finding excuses, suck it up and build a product that lasts! Don't count on my respect, earn it! I am sick of lazy arses saying but they have four year olds making their cars, we don't have the metric system, they only pay .25 and hour for some of the most uneducated work force out there! Pull your heads out! We still have the most capable work force! America is it's workforce and not it's product! What the F do you think Honda and Toyota are capitalizing on? Are we that stupid that we don't realize that Honda is building a better product than we can UTILIZING AMERICANS! America still builds the best automobiles in the world! They are Honda and Toyota! FIGURE IT OUT! :eek:

JimN
07-05-2006, 11:01 PM
A base 10 case of beer would have 100 bottles or cans. 10 =1, 10 =10, 10 =100, etc. Those would be the units of quantity for beer. Everything else can use a different unit, for all I care. :friday:

Ric- I never said the math/science/engineering kids are the ones who want to be athletes (or is it "afletes", as Magic Johnson calls them?) but there are some very intelligent athletes. Not usually the ones who are always in trouble, but they're out there. Those who are smart enough to finish school have something to fall back on when the sports years are over but even the stupid ones who make a buttload of money can still go back or finish high school if they want, instead of being bored and getting in trouble all the time.

China has a history of not recognizing intellectual property rights but last week I saw a headline about Chinese companies feeling the pinch from piracy. It's about freakin' time they figured it out!

Not all of the Chinese stuff is junk. Look at almost all power tools, other than the European goods. For woodoworking, Delta, Powermatic, Jet, Grizzly, General International and a lot of others have their machines made there (tablesaws, drill presses, jointers, planers, shapers, etc). They're getting pretty good at it and the companies who are having the machines made for import to the US have QC staff on site to maintain the specs. Not perfect but who can afford to buy everything that's Made In the USA? GM's per employee wage/bennies/pension package is about $75/hr. No wonder a Suburban goes for $40K.

Hoosier Bob
07-05-2006, 11:05 PM
I heard something about ONE HUNDRED bottles and after that it is pretty much a blur! 8p A base 10 case of beer would have 100 bottles or cans. 10 =1, 10 =10, 10 =100, etc. Those would be the units of quantity for beer. Everything else can use a different unit, for all I care. :friday:

Ric- I never said the math/science/engineering kids are the ones who want to be athletes (or is it "afletes", as Magic Johnson calls them?) but there are some very intelligent athletes. Not usually the ones who are always in trouble, but they're out there. Those who are smart enough to finish school have something to fall back on when the sports years are over but even the stupid ones who make a buttload of money can still go back or finish high school if they want, instead of being bored and getting in trouble all the time.

China has a history of not recognizing intellectual property rights but last week I saw a headline about Chinese companies feeling the pinch from piracy. It's about freakin' time they figured it out!

Not all of the Chinese stuff is junk. Look at almost all power tools, other than the European goods. For woodoworking, Delta, Powermatic, Jet, Grizzly, General International and a lot of others have their machines made there (tablesaws, drill presses, jointers, planers, shapers, etc). They're getting pretty good at it and the companies who are having the machines made for import to the US have QC staff on site to maintain the specs. Not perfect but who can afford to buy everything that's Made In the USA? GM's per employee wage/bennies/pension package is about $75/hr. No wonder a Suburban goes for $40K.

JimN
07-05-2006, 11:06 PM
Hoosier- Toyota and Honda make their vehicles here because of the duties and tarrifs, not the workers. Their ace in the hole is the QC measures they use and the fact that they know how to train and motivate their employees. Good work ethic isn't born in anyone, it's learned.

VW has plants here, too. They don't have many defects but as the service manager at a VW/AUDI/ Mercedes/BMW dealership said, they do VW things, Fords do Ford things, GM do GM things, etc.

Hoosier Bob
07-05-2006, 11:18 PM
I spent time at a VW dealership during the 98-00 years. Gotcha! If Honda and Toyota can motivate them then they can be motivated. The Valkyrie, Goldwing and now Rune are all made in Ohio. NO WHERE ELSE. My Valkyrie is by far and away the best motorcycle I have ever ridden and I rode tonight and I ride often. I plan to spend 100k of bliss on this animal. My Valk is a 98 and I would ride it to the end of the earth tomorrow. My Accord runs like new at 130K and would rather drive it than our 05 TrailBlazer with 20k! Dirt, Street and anywhere else Honda Ideology works for me! Tarriffs put you on an even field but the mentality of Honda keeps them way ahead. We can point fingers but GM, Ford and Chrysler should start working for our respect and thus earning it. I don't know numbers and facts but my river of common sense runneth very deep! ;)

Hoosier Bob
07-05-2006, 11:20 PM
Jim, this may be the best point yet and one that we should all learn from! Nice Job! You get a big Hoosier thumbs up! :dance: Hoosier- Toyota and Honda make their vehicles here because of the duties and tarrifs, not the workers. Their ace in the hole is the QC measures they use and the fact that they know how to train and motivate their employees. Good work ethic isn't born in anyone, it's learned.

VW has plants here, too. They don't have many defects but as the service manager at a VW/AUDI/ Mercedes/BMW dealership said, they do VW things, Fords do Ford things, GM do GM things, etc.

bcampbe7
07-05-2006, 11:48 PM
Hoosier Bob, you have made more sense tonight than I think you ever have. You haven't been drinking, have you?

...If our product was better and could compete in the world market it would no mater what size fasteners we use! It is time to stop finding excuses, suck it up and build a product that lasts! Don't count on my respect, earn it! I am sick of lazy arses saying but they have four year olds making their cars, we don't have the metric system, they only pay .25 and hour for some of the most uneducated work force out there! Pull your heads out! We still have the most capable work force! America is it's workforce and not it's product! What the F do you think Honda and Toyota are capitalizing on? Are we that stupid that we don't realize that Honda is building a better product than we can UTILIZING AMERICANS! America still builds the best automobiles in the world! They are Honda and Toyota! FIGURE IT OUT! :eek:

Good stuff man, good stuff... (golf clap)

Hoosier Bob
07-05-2006, 11:54 PM
Yes I have been drinkin' and no I can't say I remember that one! :o
PS Bum Phillips had a comment about Don Shula and it went like this! He can take hisin's and beat youin's and he can take youin's and beat hisin's! That pretty much sums it up! :D Hoosier Bob, you have made more sense tonight than I think you ever have. You haven't been drinking, have you?



Good stuff man, good stuff... (golf clap)

Workin' 4 Toys
07-06-2006, 12:22 AM
I am still trying to figure out just how beer bottle/can counts got dragged into this.....
I am happy with the 30 packs, makes for a good lunch break....:D

Hoosier Bob
07-06-2006, 12:25 AM
Screw your 30 packs I have it on good word from JIMN that the Asians are bringin' 100 packs! Man they kick are arse in beer too! Run WFT run! ;) I am still trying to figure out just how beer bottle/can counts got dragged into this.....
I am happy with the 30 packs, makes for a good lunch break....:D

Workin' 4 Toys
07-06-2006, 12:27 AM
Metric or not, Toyota and Honda can stick their metric arses where the sun NEVER shines!!

By the way, in metric, what size is the DRIVE of all these sockets?:rolleyes:

Workin' 4 Toys
07-06-2006, 12:28 AM
Screw your 30 packs I have it on good word from JIMN that the Asians are bringin' 100 packs! Man they kick are arse in beer too! Run WFT run! ;)
You've never been to goose island have you? I'd almost think you lived there....

Hoosier Bob
07-06-2006, 12:29 AM
Being a peacful type and always choosing a diplomatic solution rather than confrontation I am nicely saying WFT you need anger management! As a friend I will help you get through this!

Hoosier Bob
07-06-2006, 12:30 AM
Well dumbarse it could be 1/4, 3/8 or 1/2! That is how F'd up we are! Thanks for that lob! :D Metric or not, Toyota and Honda can stick their metric arses where the sun NEVER shines!!

By the way, in metric, what size is the DRIVE of all these sockets?:rolleyes:

Workin' 4 Toys
07-06-2006, 12:34 AM
Well dumbarse it could be 1/4, 3/8 or 1/2! That is how F'd up we are! Thanks for that lob! :D
I was thinking 3/4" & 1" drive, what little bity junks you been workin' on? Oh, yeah, I forgot what car you have......

Is there a metric drive?

Speaking of VW's, don't they have a line of tools exclusively used only for VW's? Talk about global issues?

Hoosier Bob
07-06-2006, 12:37 AM
For some reason I don't think you would be so bitter if you drove an import :D Our sh** does not need 1 inch bolts to hold it together! Better stock up on duct tape and zip ties WFT! What is your name anyway? Tim?I was thinking 3/4" & 1" drive, what little bity junks you been workin' on? Oh, yeah, I forgot what car you have......

Is there a metric drive?

Speaking of VW's, don't they have a line of tools exclusively used only for VW's? Talk about global issues?

Workin' 4 Toys
07-06-2006, 12:45 AM
For some reason I don't think you would be so bitter if you drove an import :D Our sh** does not need 1 inch bolts to hold it together! Better stock up on duct tape and zip ties WFT! What is your name anyway?
It's "monkey wrench" to you beotch....
I don't use duct tape anymore, it doesn't stick. I use 3M foil tape, sticks better and it's made in this country you smackstick..

east tx skier
07-06-2006, 12:48 AM
Made in Austin, TX I do believe. I've got a big roll of it to mend the insulation in my engine box.

Hi fellas! Did anyone win this debate yet?

Hoosier Bob
07-06-2006, 12:48 AM
So your name is "MONKEY WRENCH?" :D It's "monkey wrench" to you beotch....
I don't use duct tape anymore, it doesn't stick. I use 3M foil tape, sticks better and it's made in this country you smackstick..

Hoosier Bob
07-06-2006, 12:49 AM
I think there is a clear victor here! And he is relaxin' somewhere in Hoosierland! :D Made in Austin, TX I do believe. I've got a big roll of it to mend the insulation in my engine box.

Hi fellas! Did anyone win this debate yet?

Workin' 4 Toys
07-06-2006, 12:49 AM
Made in Austin, TX I do believe. I've got a big roll of it to mend the insulation in my engine box.

Hi fellas! Did anyone win this debate yet?
Yup, we all agree Hondas & toyotas suk.... What else was there...?

Workin' 4 Toys
07-06-2006, 12:50 AM
So your name is "MONKEY WRENCH?" :D
DAm your good.......Or was it "monkie wrench"?

east tx skier
07-06-2006, 12:52 AM
Yup, we all agree Hondas & toyotas suk.... What else was there...?

Good, glad that's settled. W4T, are you a Ford or a Chevy man?

Hoosier Bob
07-06-2006, 12:54 AM
Good news! We disagree but once again have more fun debating and disagreein' than we do skiing! I know I won but I am better for it! LOSERS! :D

Workin' 4 Toys
07-06-2006, 12:57 AM
Good, glad that's settled. W4T, are you a Ford or a Chevy man?
Live axles front and rear is what I crave with a manual shift transfer case and manual hubs. (Slim pickens on these options:mad: )
It depends on the purpose. Do I want a larger vehicle with a car like ride = GM, do I want a truck = Ford.

Hoosier Bob
07-06-2006, 12:59 AM
So you drive a Ridgeline? What are you doing on Indiana Beach day WFT BEOTCH!

east tx skier
07-06-2006, 01:01 AM
It depends on the purpose. Do I want a larger vehicle with a car like ride = GM, do I want a truck = Ford.

Pretty much sums up what I notice between driving my Expedition and my father-in-law's suburban. Ford feels like a truck.

Workin' 4 Toys
07-06-2006, 01:03 AM
So you drive a Ridgeline? What are you doing on Indiana Beach day WFT BEOTCH!
Not sure I could handle seeing you on the skydrop losing you lunch then swinging through it.:eek:

Hoosier Bob
07-06-2006, 01:05 AM
Is that how it is gonna be? Lunch is meant to be lost and beer is meant to be consumed! Is you is or is you ain't? :confused: Dares have never been a weakness of mine! I play hard! :D Not sure I could handle seeing you on the skydrop losing you lunch then swinging through it.:eek:

Workin' 4 Toys
07-06-2006, 01:07 AM
Pretty much sums up what I notice between driving my Expedition and my father-in-law's suburban. Ford feels like a truck.
I do think your (Ford) truck has IFS, it's still a step in the car like direction over the Superduty series.
A fair comparison would be an Excursion vs. Suburban 2500.
Torsion bars:noface:

Hoosier Bob
07-06-2006, 01:10 AM
You straight axle freak! I think Toyota proved you wrong years ago! Sorry you Hilljacks can't go 44" on the new IFS! Maybe you should realize ain't no quality chicks gonna climb up in that POS anyway! :D I do think your (Ford) truck has IFS, it's still a step in the car like direction over the Superduty series.
A fair comparison would be an Excursion vs. Suburban 2500.
Torsion bars:noface:

Workin' 4 Toys
07-06-2006, 01:16 AM
You straight axle freak! I think Toyota proved you wrong years ago! Sorry you Hilljacks can't go 44" on the new IFS! Maybe you should realize ain't no quality chicks gonna climb up in that POS anyway! :D
And they couldn't even accept the ultimate 9", had to go to some POS 8"

Hoosier Bob
07-06-2006, 01:19 AM
Ford 9 is sweet but not many have destroyed the Toy 8"! I have thrown the hogshead out of a Ford 8 though! What is your freakin point! :confused:

Ric
07-06-2006, 11:16 AM
Hi fellas! Did anyone win this debate yet?

The beer box debate will live forever

kinda off the metric topic, how many oz of beer are actually in a 12oz can?

east tx skier
07-06-2006, 11:20 AM
I do think your (Ford) truck has IFS, it's still a step in the car like direction over the Superduty series.
A fair comparison would be an Excursion vs. Suburban 2500.
Torsion bars:noface:

No idea on the independent front suspension. I'm just talking feel. Yes, an excursion is a better overal comparison, but of the suburbans I've driven, all have seemed much lower to the ground than my expedition. That said, they tow like there's no tomorrow.

When I first got my truck, after putting a heavy duty tranny cooler on it, my first tow was lackluster. I added some mildly stiff shocks to the rear end and left the front alone. It still has a very comfortable ride for the ladies, but doesn't get bounced all over the road by the boat. Works for me. Was very handy transporting the portable course, the kid, and all our other junk to the lake this past weekend.

/edit. Okay, this is what I've found. Mine is the XLT sport, which is a different tire package I believe. I also believe I have a 3.33 rear axle as opposed to the 3.55 listed here (at least from how I can interpret the door code).

ABS
-3.55:1 axle ratio
-Four disc brakes including two ventilated discs
-Immobilizer
-Fullsize steel rim under body spare wheel
-Wishbone front suspension with stabilizer bar independent with torsion springs , beam rear suspension with stabilizer bar rigid with coil springs.

bcampbe7
07-06-2006, 11:20 AM
The beer box debate will live forever

kinda off the metric topic, how many oz of beer are actually in a 12oz can?


0.3548824 L :D

Ric
07-06-2006, 11:20 AM
Live axles front and rear is what I crave with a manual shift transfer case and manual hubs. (Slim pickens on these options:mad: )

man, that parallels the open bow closed bow slalom discussions

Workin' 4 Toys
07-06-2006, 11:33 AM
Ford 9 is sweet but not many have destroyed the Toy 8"! I have thrown the hogshead out of a Ford 8 though! What is your freakin point! :confused:
I could have exploded an 8!!!! Just never wanted to try, went straight for the 9. And will continue to do so.

Workin' 4 Toys
07-06-2006, 11:42 AM
No idea on the independent front suspension. I'm just talking feel. Yes, an excursion is a better overal comparison, but of the suburbans I've driven, all have seemed much lower to the ground than my expedition. That said, they tow like there's no tomorrow.

When I first got my truck, after putting a heavy duty tranny cooler on it, my first tow was lackluster. I added some mildly stiff shocks to the rear end and left the front alone. It still has a very comfortable ride for the ladies, but doesn't get bounced all over the road by the boat. Works for me. Was very handy transporting the portable course, the kid, and all our other junk to the lake this past weekend.

/edit. Okay, this is what I've found. Mine is the XLT sport, which is a different tire package I believe. I also believe I have a 3.33 rear axle as opposed to the 3.55 listed here (at least from how I can interpret the door code).

ABS
-3.55:1 axle ratio
-Four disc brakes including two ventilated discs
-Immobilizer
-Fullsize steel rim under body spare wheel
-Wishbone front suspension with stabilizer bar independent with torsion springs , beam rear suspension with stabilizer bar rigid with coil springs.
Wise investment on the tranny cooler. Heat is the number one enemy(well maybe second next to a 4K neutral drop) of any transmission.
Speaking of riding low, ever take a look under a truck (including yours), what's the lowest thing to the ground (besides the pumpkins).....The fuel tank.....:eek: I still wonder about these engineers sometimes. I am still at a loss which I'd rather have drag on the ground, a plastic or metal (aluminum) tank.....Not that it would rub on the highway, but my trucks go off road, and I think about it mostly then.

Workin' 4 Toys
07-06-2006, 11:44 AM
man, that parallels the open bow closed bow slalom discussions
Ok, go for it!! The gloves come off, let's go...;)

Ric
07-06-2006, 11:46 AM
Ok, go for it!! The gloves come off, let's go...;)
HAAAAA too bad I don't give a shiddd ;)

Workin' 4 Toys
07-06-2006, 12:02 PM
HAAAAA too bad I don't give a shiddd ;)

I WIN!!!:o

JimN
07-06-2006, 01:26 PM
WFT- if you go offroad a lot, shouldn't you have skid plates?

east tx skier
07-06-2006, 01:52 PM
Wise investment on the tranny cooler.


Wouldn't pull without one. Have always wished I investigated what rear end it had on it before purchase. It pulls fine and I'm not doing a lot of hills around here, but 3.33 leaves a little to be desired, even if the tow capacity is 6,700 lbs with the 5.4.

Workin' 4 Toys
07-07-2006, 10:01 AM
WFT- if you go offroad a lot, shouldn't you have skid plates?
Yup, wouldn't you think 4WD vehicles would have them. Afterall, why are they 4WD right?

Workin' 4 Toys
07-07-2006, 10:11 AM
Wouldn't pull without one. Have always wished I investigated what rear end it had on it before purchase. It pulls fine and I'm not doing a lot of hills around here, but 3.33 leaves a little to be desired, even if the tow capacity is 6,700 lbs with the 5.4.
These guys could fix you right up..Set of 4.11's and a LSD would make a good tow rig better..... THE SHOP (http://www.offroadshop.com)

JimN
07-07-2006, 10:18 AM
WFT- they have 4WD so soccer moms can park on the grass.

Workin' 4 Toys
07-07-2006, 10:30 AM
WFT- they have 4WD so soccer moms can park on the grass.
I HEAR DAT!!;)

east tx skier
07-07-2006, 11:07 AM
These guys could fix you right up..Set of 4.11's and a LSD would make a good tow rig better..... THE SHOP (http://www.offroadshop.com)

Maybe when I pay it off, I'll play with something like that. Honestly, the limited slip diff. would be something I'd be pretty interested in having for those slick ramps I could potentially encounter if I strayed from our usual haunts.